@farrell2k: Who is forcing you to pay for Ps4 online?
4 Biggest System Wars Myths
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@DarthaPerkinjan said:
fine, fine Sony quality craftsmanship?
I guess you could build a PC that looks terrible and feels cheap if you really wanted to.
@farrell2k said:
750ti - $99
x4-760k, 8gb ram, 250gb hdd, wifi, dvd drive, mouse, keyboard, 400W ps, case. $263
Windows 7 64 bit - $56
or
Windows 7 64 bit - $55.
$417.
Outperforms the ps4 and less than the cost of one bought here in my state after tax. How much is a ps4 after being forced to pay for online and then the taxes on top of that? $399 + 50 + 6% tax here.
Pretty solid victory to me.
Well you did prove me wrong, you can build a PC for that cheap with Windows and still play games on the low end. Still no blu-ray drive and half the harddrive space so you did make some confessions there.
I wouldn't recommend this PC to anybody though. I wouldn't want to use that PC over a game console given what I know about how PC ports behave. I'm also expecting a at least $50 price drop of the PS4 within a few months, maybe $100 by the end of the year. Hard to keep up with that. An Xbox One is already only $350.
But yeah, you can build a PC for as cheap as a PS4 with most of the features.
@aroxx_ab said:
@farrell2k: Who is forcing you to pay for Ps4 online?
Sony. It's kind of hard to play online on the PS4 without paying.
Def can't build a PC for $370
@GioVela2010 said:
Def can't build a PC for $370
Sure you can.
@GioVela2010 said:
Def can't build a PC for $370
As I was wrong before that you can build a cheap PC for roughly $400 even with Windows 7 (if you know where to look and catch deals/mail-in-rebates). You most certainly aren't getting the full functionality of a console at its base price either. You'll need to tack on at least $50 extra just to play online.
So you can't buy a console and get all of the features for $370 either.
@foxhound_fox said:
@aroxx_ab said:
@farrell2k: Who is forcing you to pay for Ps4 online?
Sony. It's kind of hard to play online on the PS4 without paying.
@clyde46 said:
@aroxx_ab: how else are you going to play multiplayer?
No1 force you to play multiplayer, you can play SP games offline or games with splitscreen multiplayer
@aroxx_ab said:
@clyde46 said:
@aroxx_ab: how else are you going to play multiplayer?
No1 force you to play multiplayer, you can play SP games offline or games with splitscreen multiplayer
So basically, forget it if you like playing games like Battlefield and Titanfall
@aroxx_ab said:
No1 force you to play multiplayer, you can play SP games offline or games with splitscreen multiplayer
Nobody forces you to buy a PS4 either. But any sensible person will consider half of the experience missing if you don't include the cost for an online membership. Especially in the day and age of games being focused towards multiplayer experiences in a "singleplayer-like" environment (like Watch Dogs). The Souls games would be a dull, lifeless experience without an online connection.
The real cost of a FULL PS4 experience is $399.99 USD + $49.99 USD (yearly). Plus any applicable taxes. Some people don't seem to consider this when arguing prices... but it's reality.
@deadline-zero0 said:
@aroxx_ab said:
@clyde46 said:
@aroxx_ab: how else are you going to play multiplayer?
No1 force you to play multiplayer, you can play SP games offline or games with splitscreen multiplayer
So basically, forget it if you like playing games like Battlefield and Titanfall
Pretty much, you dont buy online games with no online right, but at least Battlefield has SP/story mode.
You forgot the biggest myth of all time;
#5- Console gamers are not graphics whores
Not only they are but way way way way way more than PC gamers. In fact PC gamers know they get better graphics every gen so they don't care much. Some consolites here invades every thread and brag about pre rendered trailers and make graphics king thread everytime when new game is announced, even if it looks like shit. Let's not even discuss resolution and grass comparisons. Lol.
@aroxx_ab said:
@deadline-zero0 said:
@aroxx_ab said:
No1 force you to play multiplayer, you can play SP games offline or games with splitscreen multiplayer
So basically, forget it if you like playing games like Battlefield and Titanfall
Pretty much, you dont buy online games with no online right, but at least Battlefield has SP/story mode.
Yeah, except that most players like multiplayer, even if just abit here and there, nowadays.
I might aswell just say you pirate every game out there, and then buy it for 5 bucks on sale latter on.
@foxhound_fox said:
@aroxx_ab said:
No1 force you to play multiplayer, you can play SP games offline or games with splitscreen multiplayer
Nobody forces you to buy a PS4 either. But any sensible person will consider half of the experience missing if you don't include the cost for an online membership. Especially in the day and age of games being focused towards multiplayer experiences in a "singleplayer-like" environment (like Watch Dogs). The Souls games would be a dull, lifeless experience without an online connection.
The real cost of a FULL PS4 experience is $399.99 USD + $49.99 USD (yearly). Plus any applicable taxes. Some people don't seem to consider this when arguing prices... but it's reality.
Ofc it going to cost you more if you want the "full experience" on the platform, same could be said about ANY platform especially PC.
@Wasdie said:
@HalcyonScarlet said:
1. Sure, however they need to offer something for the asking price. Before we were buying into generational leaps and games you couldn't play else where.
2. It's interesting, Playstation gamers couldn't stop bringing it up in the past.
3. PC games are cheaper because there are no royalties to pay.
4. I think it's the other way around, console gamers bring this up defensively and it's meaningless. Why would I mind paying more on a PC when I can do much more with it. We rate value with the question 'for the price, what does this allow me to do?'.
60 fps does a lot more than make it feel smooth.
The entry level to the PC is higher, but no where near as high as the console gamers make out. 'you need an uber PC with high end cards to play', erm no, a GTX 750Ti level card can play most games on high right now on a single monitor.
I used to think 'console games for the console and PC games for the PC' but I think things are different now. The console games on the PC have exactly the same experience as the console, it's just running on better hardware if you have that. In recent years the 360 controller has been integrated to the point where most games have native support for it. It just feels plug and play now (although I know that wasn't your point).
Nah I see a lot of PC gamers (including this thread) trying to convince people that you can build a $399 PC to match a PS4. Now it's a $400 PC that just has as much power as a PS4, not as many features because those aren't important. It's a moving goal no matter who you talk to.
I'll agree though. A lot of console fanboys do not seem to realize the price of a real PC especially in the long term. Up front you'll be paying more, but you don't need the $600 graphic card and $350 CPU with a $200 mobo to play the best games. I would say a maximum of $1000 for the entire system including a mouse, keyboard, operating system, and monitor and you'll still get a gaming machine that will be playing the latest games for at least 3-4 years. And each year that $1000 goes just a bit further. Sure, $1000 is quite expensive up front when directly compared to a PS4 or Xbox One, but in 2-3 years without having to pay $50 a year for the online services and being able to buy large bundles of games for cheap as well as get discounts on the latest games on the PC, the price you pay evens out very quickly and you've still gotten a better overall gaming experience.
You can build a gaming PC with an OS for roughly $600 and be better off than the consoles. I feel though if you're only intention when building a gaming PC is to be slightly better than the game consoles, you need to reevaluate why you want the PC in the first place. Skipping by on it just to say you got something slightly better than a game console is a horrible mentality to go into gaming with. Especially if you want to play the latest multiplats.
If you only want to be playing a lot of older PC titles then it's fine, but the newest stuff (as I said before) won't be optimized for your hardware moving forward. Devs branch the console versions and make special considerations during development for them. They do not do that with the low-end PC market. Devs are much quicker to just raise the minimum specs as it's nearly impossible to optimize for the wide variety of system configurations out there. I've never agreed with low-end PC gaming. I feel it ends up being a hassle. Unless you only like playing PC exclusives then low-end PC gaming is a pretty shallow and frustrating experience as you gamble on if the newest stuff will play nice with your machine and give you a satisfying experience.
Except it's the TC and console gamers who bring it up and some PC gamers who try to meet the challenge.
It should be pointed out while the entry cost can be high, a lot of the expenses can be a one time only thing. The next time you build a PC from scratch, a lot of the hardware can be reused. Such as keyboard, mouse, monitor even, all your accessories, possibly your gaming case, audio stuff. Also for some it can be as simple as adding a graphics card to their PC like it was in my case. Although all of this is outside of the hypothetical situation. And not for nothing, but the lower cost of Windows 10 as it has been rumoured could also lower the entry cost.
Regarding your third paragraph, I agree and disagree. Because while I game on an overclocked GTX750Ti (I got it as a starter card into PC gaming), which may not be any more powerful than a current gen consoles graphics at this time, there is a lot more to the PC than hardware. The software is amazing and you don't always need to play on the highest settings to enjoy all the PC has to offer, it's still worth it, if you can only play on medium.
'won't be optimized for your hardware moving forward' possibly, but DX12 as a standard could change a lot for PC gaming at the lower entry levels in terms of how efficient developers are able program games for the PC and in ease of porting between the X1 and Windows. While it may not do a whole lot for the X1, it's an exciting development for the PC. After all, they are aiming for 'console level efficiency with it'.
Also in terms of low end gaming, I think AMD have been quite helpful there, I hear their APUs can be useful at that level. And developments from both AMD and Nvidia seem to be making the lower end hardware ever more capable. Back in the day, low end hardware was far less capable for it's time than the newer counter parts. Not that it would necessarily run the latest stuff. But I agree, I wouldn't go there myself.
@aroxx_ab said:
Ofc it going to cost you more if you want the "full experience" on the platform, same could be said about ANY platform especially PC.
The "full" experience on PC comes from getting the hardware. There is no subscription keeping half the experience locked away behind a paywall.
@farrell2k said:
@Wasdie said:
@farrell2k said:
So now the goalpost has moved from "You can't build a gaming pc that equals the ps4 at that price." to "You can't build one that runs windows and plays basically all the same games."
What does a system's game catalog have to do with its hardware capabilities? The "it doesn't have windows" argument is the single biggest bit of sophistry floating around here on SW.
Metro Redux on Linux with a 750ti and a x4-750k plays better than on the PS4.
You can build a Windows 7 pc with the above cpu and gpu that will outperform the ps4 in many games and will cost the same or less than the ps4.
It's not moving the goalpost. If you do not put windows on the machine you will not be running the vast majority of games that they get on the PS4. The only thing you're doing is setting up qualifiers. Why would you build a machine that just cannot play the games? Just having the power doesn't mean anything. That's just silly and you've change the entire argument just so you can win it. Why would anybody build a PC that's a bit more powerful than the consoles for the same price yet not be able to play most of the games let alone have less overall features due to the limited hardware?
Go ahead and build the machine. People with a console will be enjoying way more games all why you can enjoy a hollow victory. That's why this is a pointless argument.
750ti - $99
x4-760k, 8gb ram, 250gb hdd, wifi, dvd drive, mouse, keyboard, 400W ps, case. $263
Windows 7 64 bit - $56
or
Windows 7 64 bit - $55.
$417.
Outperforms the ps4 and less than the cost of one bought here in my state after tax. How much is a ps4 after being forced to pay for online and then the taxes on top of that? $399 + 50 + 6% tax here.
Pretty solid victory to me.
I know this isn't your point, but I think if you are buying a card at the 750Ti level, it could be a good idea to get one of the top variants of it. Although that MSI one looks quite good. But I mean for example, the reference spec is around £100 maybe less in the UK and the top varients are only £10 - £20 or so more, so it's worth it.
@brickedntricked said:
Well most people buy a prebuilt to use in there home from hp or dell for 700-1000.
Proof to back this up?
@foxhound_fox said:
@brickedntricked said:
Well most people buy a prebuilt to use in there home from hp or dell for 700-1000.
Proof to back this up?
I imagine first time PC gamers start off with a pre-built, then learn about upgrading and then consider self building.
@DarthaPerkinjan said:
#1 - 'Next-Gen' is all about how powerful the systems are. What a complete and utter joke. For starters, did anybody ever deny the Wii was 'Next-Gen' even though Wii Sports looked like a PS1 game? No. Next gen gaming is more then just visuals. The enhanced social features and options of the new consoles is more then enough to make them next gen. Its not all about power. People who say the Xbox One or PS4 arent next gen because they werent bleeding edge tech make me laugh.
#2 - Conosle Gamers spend a chunk of money every year for Xbox Live/PS Plus. Again, false. I havent been subscribed to PS+ for a while now. A large portion of console gamers do not play online, and thus do not need PS+. Theres no game out there currently or in the near future I want to play online, so I did not renew my subscription.
#3 - PC software is so much cheaper then console software. Nope. amazon and other websites have sales just as frequently as steam on next gen games. Driveclub was 40% off at one point on Amazon within 4 weeks of its launch and this is the case with most games. Keep in mind low PC software prices are driven by rampant piracy and poor sales. They're not cheap because Gabe loves you.
#4 - You can build a PC that equals PS4 for the same price. One that includes Windows 8, a Dual Shock 4, a 3D blu-ray player, and is the product of fine, fine Sony quality craftsmanship? Doubtful. And even if you could, why would you? PC gaming is about playing multi plats in higher fidelity then on console, so why would you?
lelel
@farrell2k said:
@Wasdie said:
@farrell2k said:
So now the goalpost has moved from "You can't build a gaming pc that equals the ps4 at that price." to "You can't build one that runs windows and plays basically all the same games."
What does a system's game catalog have to do with its hardware capabilities? The "it doesn't have windows" argument is the single biggest bit of sophistry floating around here on SW.
Metro Redux on Linux with a 750ti and a x4-750k plays better than on the PS4.
You can build a Windows 7 pc with the above cpu and gpu that will outperform the ps4 in many games and will cost the same or less than the ps4.
It's not moving the goalpost. If you do not put windows on the machine you will not be running the vast majority of games that they get on the PS4. The only thing you're doing is setting up qualifiers. Why would you build a machine that just cannot play the games? Just having the power doesn't mean anything. That's just silly and you've change the entire argument just so you can win it. Why would anybody build a PC that's a bit more powerful than the consoles for the same price yet not be able to play most of the games let alone have less overall features due to the limited hardware?
Go ahead and build the machine. People with a console will be enjoying way more games all why you can enjoy a hollow victory. That's why this is a pointless argument.
750ti - $99
x4-760k, 8gb ram, 250gb hdd, wifi, dvd drive, mouse, keyboard, 400W ps, case. $263
Windows 7 64 bit - $56
or
Windows 7 64 bit - $55.
$417.
Outperforms the ps4 and less than the cost of one bought here in my state after tax. How much is a ps4 after being forced to pay for online and then the taxes on top of that? $399 + 50 + 6% tax here.
Pretty solid victory to me.
If the target price is PS4's $399 + $50 online (per year). 4 years of $50 = $200 for another future video card with HBM.
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qcDQgs Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/qcDQgs/by_merchant/
CPU: AMD Athlon X4 760K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($73.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus A78M-E Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team Elite Plus 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($58.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($28.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($120.66 @ Newegg)
Case: Logisys CS206BK ATX Mid Tower Case w/480W Power Supply ($27.26 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: LG UH12NS30 Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Keyboard: Logitech K120 Wired Standard Keyboard ($6.99 @ NCIX US)
Mouse: Gigabyte GM-M5050 Wired Optical Mouse ($3.99 @ NCIX US)
Hardware Total: $390.74 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-17 18:27 EST-0500
Your Windows 7 64bit $55 price
Total: $445.75
------------------
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XmTZHx Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XmTZHx/by_merchant/
CPU: AMD Athlon X4 760K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($73.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus A78M-E Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team Elite Plus 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($58.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital RE3 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($24.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($120.66 @ Newegg)
Case: Logisys CS206BK ATX Mid Tower Case w/480W Power Supply ($27.26 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Logitech K120 Wired Standard Keyboard ($6.99 @ NCIX US)
Mouse: Gigabyte GM-M5050 Wired Optical Mouse ($3.99 @ NCIX US)
Hardware Total: $366.73 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-17 18:16 EST-0500
Your Windows 7 64bit $55 price
Total: $421.75
Radeon HD 7870 (1Ghz clock speed, 20 CU, 2.56 TFLOPS) has AMD Mantle API support, hence near zero PS4 API advantage.
PC has tons of open source business software for task outside of gaming.
In a few years, the next goal post would be cost sensitive machine for 4K HDTV target and HBM would be important for this use case.
@farrell2k said:
No concessions, my good man. Bluray has squat to do with gaming, and a ps4 with a 500 gig hard drive performs just as well as one with a 250gb.
It doesn't matter if you want those features or not, lopping 250 gigs off of the internal HDD and then removing the blu-ray drive is effectively lessening the value of the machine. That's just how it works.
Additional the PS4 and Xbox One have internal h.264 capture hardware that you could only get right now with Nvidia GPUs and shadowplay so you need to take that into consideration too. So no AMD solutions right now until they come out with their own (which I'm suprised they haven't).
If your $349 and $399 get you all of that stuff then an equivalent PC should get you all of that. You cannot just remove features that you do not find essential for gaming. That's not fair. With the consoles you're getting a bunch more than just being able to run games. Watching Blu-Rays and capturing video of the games are all features of the consoles you cannot neglect.
You're making concessions to get that price down. Simple as that.
Yes you can make a PC for roughly $400 that can perform a bit better than a console but as of right now you have to make some concessions of features for that. This is why it's not even worth it. Go and buy yourself a real PC. I would never once recommend that PC to anybody which makes this argument even more foolish. Why the hell would you ever willingly that weak of a system for the sole purpose of gaming?
@farrell2k said:
@Wasdie: I wouldn't mind a system like that for gaming. It outperforms the ps4. If this pc is too weak for gaming, then the ps4 must then be even less worthwhile.
I still don't see what any of what you mentioned has to do with gaming. I think you're just tap dancing around the fact that the ps4 is not worth its price.
Only the PS4 and Xbox One are absolutely worth their price to anybody who does not own a gaming PC. They are a small form factor device for a home entertainment center that play all of the latest games. Sure they aren't as powerful as PCs but devs will go out of their way to make games for the consoles for the forseeable future. With the PC you posted there is absolutely no guarantee that you'll be able to play all of the latest games that come out over the next few years. Devs do not branch versions for weaker hardware. We saw this last generation where the minimum specs for games continued to increase despite a PS3 and 360 version of the game being made. Even the lowest settings of the PC version were higher than the graphic rendering they used on the consoles. I would not have been able to keep gaming comfortably if I would have stuck with my 8800 GTS last generation and I do not think anybody who buys a GTX 750ti is going to make it this generation.
If you do not think they are worth the money then by all means don't buy one. However I would not recommend that PC to anybody who actually wants to play new games over the next few years.
@HalcyonScarlet said:
@DarthaPerkinjan said:
#1 - 'Next-Gen' is all about how powerful the systems are. What a complete and utter joke. For starters, did anybody ever deny the Wii was 'Next-Gen' even though Wii Sports looked like a PS1 game? No. Next gen gaming is more then just visuals. The enhanced social features and options of the new consoles is more then enough to make them next gen. Its not all about power. People who say the Xbox One or PS4 arent next gen because they werent bleeding edge tech make me laugh.
#2 - Conosle Gamers spend a chunk of money every year for Xbox Live/PS Plus. Again, false. I havent been subscribed to PS+ for a while now. A large portion of console gamers do not play online, and thus do not need PS+. Theres no game out there currently or in the near future I want to play online, so I did not renew my subscription.
#3 - PC software is so much cheaper then console software. Nope. amazon and other websites have sales just as frequently as steam on next gen games. Driveclub was 40% off at one point on Amazon within 4 weeks of its launch and this is the case with most games. Keep in mind low PC software prices are driven by rampant piracy and poor sales. They're not cheap because Gabe loves you.
#4 - You can build a PC that equals PS4 for the same price. One that includes Windows 8, a Dual Shock 4, a 3D blu-ray player, and is the product of fine, fine Sony quality craftsmanship? Doubtful. And even if you could, why would you? PC gaming is about playing multi plats in higher fidelity then on console, so why would you?
1. People say that because that's the route Sony chose, to get as much performance as the could for the selling price and it didn't cut it. MS chose the route of innovation with Kinect, as in different gameplay experiences than the PC could offer, before the pussyed out and dropped it.
Both current gen consoles now don't aim to do anything a PC can't do, so what's left, the lol performance Sony and MS hype about and the 3 or 4 retail exclusives you'll get a year, it's a shame and a joke how far consoles have fallen. At least Nintendo tries to offer a different experience and they haven't given up on it, and they offer stuff the PC hasn't got.
Also, it's funny, the cows were probably the first to jump on the Wii for not being "next gen".
2. If you want to play online, get your wallet out. Just like the cows said last gen [in relation to the Xbox 360] 'half your games are held at ransom'.
3. lol Amazon doesn't compare to the frequency of deals and no where near how cheap it gets on Steam, Humble Bundle and all the rest.
4. It doesn't matter. If I spend £800 or more on a PC, I'm still getting more value, because I can do what I want on it. £400 is a lot of money for a device that says 'here's all this hardware, but you can only do what we tell you, you can do'. It's the same reason I think Steam Machines are a waste of money, because you only use them for gaming. There is so much more to the PC than gaming.
lol craftsmanship, you mean a series of compensations for the compromises they have to make. A good laptop is good craftsmanship, because they don't compromise.
Hmm, so the cows ask 'why get an X1 when you can play the multiplats better on a PS4?', now the cows ask 'why play multiplats better on the PC when you can play them worse on the PS4?'. Well that's just great. But no, your multiplats are just a bonus and another reason why consoles are less interesting now.
Rekt
I sometimes do not get why some people get worked out over power in terms of video game generations.
@DarthaPerkinjan said:
#1 - 'Next-Gen' is all about how powerful the systems are. What a complete and utter joke. For starters, did anybody ever deny the Wii was 'Next-Gen' even though Wii Sports looked like a PS1 game? No. Next gen gaming is more then just visuals. The enhanced social features and options of the new consoles is more then enough to make them next gen. Its not all about power. People who say the Xbox One or PS4 arent next gen because they werent bleeding edge tech make me laugh.
#2 - Conosle Gamers spend a chunk of money every year for Xbox Live/PS Plus. Again, false. I havent been subscribed to PS+ for a while now. A large portion of console gamers do not play online, and thus do not need PS+. Theres no game out there currently or in the near future I want to play online, so I did not renew my subscription.
#3 - PC software is so much cheaper then console software. Nope. amazon and other websites have sales just as frequently as steam on next gen games. Driveclub was 40% off at one point on Amazon within 4 weeks of its launch and this is the case with most games. Keep in mind low PC software prices are driven by rampant piracy and poor sales. They're not cheap because Gabe loves you.
#4 - You can build a PC that equals PS4 for the same price. One that includes Windows 8, a Dual Shock 4, a 3D blu-ray player, and is the product of fine, fine Sony quality craftsmanship? Doubtful. And even if you could, why would you? PC gaming is about playing multi plats in higher fidelity then on console, so why would you?
1. I agree with your point here but that does not change the fact that the generation is still crap because it just isn't as powerful as it probably should be, last generation consoles started stronger than basically every PC but this generation started so far behind a high level PC it is laughable.
2. I don't understand why you say this is a myth, many console gamers DO spend a chunk of money so they can play online with others, and that means getting live/PS+. It is a myth for you, but for anybody here who talks about console gaming online, like talking about the horrors of MCC matchmaking, it is definitely not a myth.
3. This is not a myth. As everyone else has pointed out console software prices do not even come close to beating pc software prices. PC software prices are not driven by piracy or poor sales, they exist solely because the game makes more money when it is on sale.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Garrys-Mod-sales-graph.png
Here is a picture proving my point. Notice the spikes that happen before a new year and around the September period. Notice that if Garry's mod was selling X units at a time just before a spike, then the units sold at the spike would be 10 times X more often than not (IE you make 25% of a normal sale if you put your game at 75% off, but you sell 10 times as many copies, effectively more than doubling your profit).
A different yet more interesting perspective can be seen here:
http://thecastledoctrine.net/seedBlogs.php?action=display_post&post_id=jasonrohrer_1389812989_0&show_author=1&show_date=1
There is a graph of one of his games and the sales figures, you can see similar spikes just like Garry's Mod, but he also reveals how he stopped participating in the sales in 2013. Note how there are no spikes during this period and his overall sales declined. While he makes interesting points, you can see that by not putting his game on sale he effectively hurt his profit, which is why you see frequent sales on PC games.
It is similar to the Angry Birds phenomenon, you release a game at 0.99$ and suddenly every game has to either match that price, go F2P, or just not do well. Premium games at 2.99$ on the appstore constantly struggle.
4. Well the reason you would buy a PC that runs like a PS4 at the same/similar price is for the mountain of PC exclusives you can play. You can try genres that are exclusive to PC, like RTS games (Starcraft, AoE, RoN), the ever so popular MOBAS (League of Legends, Dota 2, Heroes of the Storm) or you can just play whatever the console guys are playing, since many exclusives are now either coming to PC (GTAV), are already on PC (Ryse) or are timed exclusives (Rise of the Tomb Raider). Any other exclusives are either poorly rated or just not worth your time (5club, MCC, Destiny)
PC gaming has nothing to do with playing multi plats in higher fidelity, in fact the most popular games on PC don't even exist on consoles. League of Legends continues to be one of the most popular games in the world, and how about steam?
http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
Check out the 5 most played games on Steam. All PC exclusive. Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, Garry's Mod and Civilization 5. Ignoring Skyrim you also have Civ: Beyond Earth, H1Z1 and Football Manager 2015, followed by Saints Row 4 because it is currently free and on sale, and if you don't want to count that, yet another PC exclusive, Arma 3. In fact look at the top 100 most played games on steam, you will find the majority of them are all PC exclusive.
@farrell2k said:
@Wasdie said:
Well you did prove me wrong, you can build a PC for that cheap with Windows and still play games on the low end. Still no blu-ray drive and half the harddrive space so you did make some confessions there.
I wouldn't recommend this PC to anybody though. I wouldn't want to use that PC over a game console given what I know about how PC ports behave. I'm also expecting a at least $50 price drop of the PS4 within a few months, maybe $100 by the end of the year. Hard to keep up with that. An Xbox One is already only $350.
But yeah, you can build a PC for as cheap as a PS4 with most of the features.
No concessions, my good man. Bluray has squat to do with gaming, and a ps4 with a 500 gig hard drive performs just as well as one with a 250gb.
@ronvalencia said:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XmTZHx Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/XmTZHx/by_merchant/
CPU: AMD Athlon X4 760K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($73.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus A78M-E Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Team Elite Plus 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($58.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital RE3 250GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($24.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($120.66 @ Newegg)
Case: Logisys CS206BK ATX Mid Tower Case w/480W Power Supply ($27.26 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Keyboard: Logitech K120 Wired Standard Keyboard ($6.99 @ NCIX US)
Mouse: Gigabyte GM-M5050 Wired Optical Mouse ($3.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $366.73 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-17 18:16 EST-0500
Your Windows 7 64bit $55 price
Total: $421.75
Radeon HD 7870 (1Ghz clock speed, 20 CU) has AMD Mantle API support, hence near zero PS4 API advantage.
I find it hard to believe that the ps4 gpu is even as good as a 7870. I'd say more like a 7850.
PS4's GPU (1.84 TFLOPS, 18 CU at 800Mhz) is about R7-265 (1.89 TFLOPS, 16 CU at 925Mhz) which is lower than R9-270 (2.368 TFLOPS, 20 CU at 925Mhz) or 7870 (2.56 TFLOPS, 20 CU at 1Ghz).
@Wasdie:
H.264 encoder on AMD products.
http://developer.amd.com/community/blog/2014/02/19/introducing-video-coding-engine-vce/
"Access to the Video Coding Engine is provided by the Media SDK, which is designed to handle a variety of use-cases and multimedia frameworks. Media SDK provides the following functionalities:
- AMF- DEM library for low latency video capture and encode
- H.264 HMFT Encoder for HW-accelerated video encoding by leveraging VCE through the Microsoft Media Foundation Platform"
VCE Version | Product Family | Distinguishing Features |
VCE 1.0 | Radeon HD 7900 series/Radeon R9 280X dGPU | First release: AVC – I,P and DEM |
| Radeon HD 7800 series dGPU | ||
| Radeon R9 270X/270 dGPU | ||
| Radeon HD 7700 series/Radeon R7 250X dGPU | ||
| A10 – 58XX (and other variations) APU | ||
| A10 – 68XX APU | ||
VCE 2.0 | Radeon R9 290x/290 dGPU | SVC (temporal) + B-pictures + DEM improvements |
| Radeon R7 260X/260 dGPU | ||
| A10 – 7850K APU | ||
| A4-5350, A4-3850, or E1-2650 APU | ||
A4-1200/A6-1450 APU |
Against NVIDIA's ShadowPlay, AMD has GVR. Read http://www.gamersnexus.net/news/1560-amd-gvr-gaming-evolved
"Regardless, AMD users can now enjoy the same GPU-accelerated capture as nVidia users have had through ShadowPlay"
#3 is just plain crazy. Someone needs steam in their lives. Dem endless 80% off sales say wut.....
all of these are false
@DarthaPerkinjan said:
#1 - 'Next-Gen' is all about how powerful the systems are. What a complete and utter joke. For starters, did anybody ever deny the Wii was 'Next-Gen' even though Wii Sports looked like a PS1 game? No. Next gen gaming is more then just visuals. The enhanced social features and options of the new consoles is more then enough to make them next gen. Its not all about power. People who say the Xbox One or PS4 arent next gen because they werent bleeding edge tech make me laugh.
#2 - Conosle Gamers spend a chunk of money every year for Xbox Live/PS Plus. Again, false. I havent been subscribed to PS+ for a while now. A large portion of console gamers do not play online, and thus do not need PS+. Theres no game out there currently or in the near future I want to play online, so I did not renew my subscription.
#3 - PC software is so much cheaper then console software. Nope. amazon and other websites have sales just as frequently as steam on next gen games. Driveclub was 40% off at one point on Amazon within 4 weeks of its launch and this is the case with most games. Keep in mind low PC software prices are driven by rampant piracy and poor sales. They're not cheap because Gabe loves you.
#4 - You can build a PC that equals PS4 for the same price. One that includes Windows 8, a Dual Shock 4, a 3D blu-ray player, and is the product of fine, fine Sony quality craftsmanship? Doubtful. And even if you could, why would you? PC gaming is about playing multi plats in higher fidelity then on console, so why would you?
#5 - PC is in competition against consoles. PC doesn't have sales to compete. It's made by many companies. There's no PC company at any of the game shows, GDC, E3 etc. PCs are multi-capable machines that have many uses. They are not closed loop systems that are released every 6 years that only play games designed for that system and at the same specs every time. Each PC game requires different specs to be able to play it. Each console game runs on the same specs of it's respective system.
GS says it is since it plays many of the same games. False! Cars and trucks use the same fuel, both drive on the same roads, both have a gasoline fueled combustion engine and transmission, and carry people. And cars are not in competition against trucks, because they are different types of automobiles. The same is true of PCs and consoles.
1: The 3ds is a good system: it isn't, it has a whopping 4 games worth playing in the span of 3 years. We're on year 4, and it barely has anything more than 3 games on the way.
2: The WiiU exclusives make it the best console: um it's still got the weakest library by virtue of missing out on so many multiplats. The other 2 consoles play for primarily real estate, the WiiU? it plays to be your side bitch.
3: Mechanics=gameplay: nah, Gameplay is everything interactive about the game: the mechanics, the level design, the pacing, the difficulty curve, the whole 9 yards. That's gameplay. Mechanics are just mechanics.
4: video game stories are good: lol, come on.
The 3DS has more good games than the Vita, or is anything above the fourth best handheld in the last few years.
3D Zelda aren't usually the most overrated games of all time and have good gameplay.
Resident Evil 4 is the best paced game ever, because the island exists
Nintendo isn't one of the more regressive companies in the last decade.
Nah. Biggest SW myth: One can argue his opinion is fact. This applies to this forum especially.
Not sure about the other points, but number 1 is definitely a false myth. In the entire history of video games, consoles never had the most powerful tech, not now, not ever. From the 1970s to the 1990s, consoles paled in comparison to arcade machines, which were often an entire generation ahead of consoles (besides maybe the Dreamcast). And from the 2000s to the mid-2010s, consoles have been weaker than PC for most of that period. Just because consoles aren't as powerful as non-console platforms, that doesn't mean they're not next-gen. They're next-gen compared to previous consoles, not compared to arcades or computers.
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