A rant on the state of things (LONG!! Now with extra chapters!)

  • 96 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for deactivated-5fc30280b8881
deactivated-5fc30280b8881

446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 deactivated-5fc30280b8881
Member since 2005 • 446 Posts

A few things before I begin:

1. This will be long. If you're averse to long posts containing logic and a look at the business side of things, this thread is not for you.
1b. My English sentence structures tend to be somewhat convoluted at times. It's not a failing I can correct easily for this post, so please bear with me.

2. I am not trying to make anyone like the Wii as a machine or it's games.

3. I am, however, trying to make people understand why Nintendo does the weird things it does so they could perhaps be accepted, and even welcomed. This would reduce the annoying Wii-related whining I have to endure on the boards.

4. Take off your "hardcore" glasses and keep an open mind. Be mindful that more sophistication is not necessarily always strictly better, and that value is subjective.

With that out of the way, let's begin.


The Why:

By this time, most of you have no doubt read, again and again and again that Nintendo's after new gamers and is expanding the market, etc. Why would this matter one bit? This is why: Reggie from 2005. Do not discard this as mere business droning: It is the heart of everything.

Much of that sounds rather alarming. If the gaming industry's sales increases have been largely driven by multiple console ownership and population growth with no marked increase in household penetration, how can that growth be sustained when population growth turns into population decline? More customers are obviously needed, because the current ones are going to exit the Core market sooner or later.

In light of this need, the trend of growing disinterest sounds like a nightmare. Clearly, the then-current values held by the gaming industry aren't overtly interesting to the general populace.

On the hardware side, these values would be constant, tangible increases in hardware power and increaisng online. A problem, though: The increasing graphical fidelity in games is rapidly escalating in cost as gaming approaches the Uncanny Valley.
What I am trying to say here is that making top-of-the-line technical graphics is more and more expensive. The software development takes longer, and the hardware is more costly. This problem increases exponentially with each step taken, ie. is a case of diminishing returns. You spend far more on the next little improvement than you did on the last one.

So, the gaming industry as a whole was betting on something really expensive that customers, at large, didn't value too much. They have been overshot by offering a load of stuff they don't really want, which just raises the hardware price.
The advancement in the online functionality is driving local multiplayer into extinction due to reasons that will be discussed later.

On the software side, there has been a trend towards more and more cinematicism. Game developers have strayed far from gaming's arcade roots in pursuit of art. hey desperately want to make games "art". The problem here? People don't play games for art. They play games for the sort of entertainment games can bring: Cheerful competition with friends, exploring alien worlds or magical wonderlands, those kinds of stuff. The art-obsessed designers want games to tell grandiose stories, to explore characters and whatnot. They want to earn prestige in the eyes of the industry and be recognized as artists. Some do not focus on making games movies, and make quirky, or very complex-to.play games instead. Whatever the motivation, one thing remains consistent: They make games for themselves, not the customers.

Another troublesome factor in the industry are the suits. When I talk about suits, I mean Activision's Robert Kotick and his ilk. They are people who see gaming in terms of demographics, franchises and profit. In other words, they just want to milk "demographics" of their money. Nothing else matters. When they spot a trend, such as Wii Sports selling like mad, they see a minigame collection selling, and make more of them. They don't ask if customers want it, they just see the money. Again, no customer focus.

Gaming is a market that is largely driven by content, so it is reasonable to assume that a relatively large reason for the described disinterest is the kind of games that are being offered, and the values, like online multiplayer, that the HD Twins are pushing. In other words, people do not desire intricate plots or complicated gameplay. They want something else. In hindsight, we know the answer.


The How:

If you have read the above with an open mind, a realization should be dawning on you: There is a job to be done, and that job is saving the industry. Enter the Wii. It is plain to see that the Wii was a very calculated design, one that has the potential to succeed whereas the competition is set up for eventual failure.

The Wii is pretty much the polar opposite of the current direction of the rest of the industry, forswearing large graphical updates, a significant online presence and cinematic games.
Instead, it pushes values like interface, local multiplayer, and simple, accessible games that are designed to fit into the user's life, not replace it.
And the important part: it's selling like hotcakes. Clearly, Nintendo is onto something here.

If I were to take this into a mobile phone metaphor, Nintendo are offering people a sturdy, simple clamshell phone where Sony and MS would want you to buy a smartphone when the customer simply wants to make calls. That's how radical the difference in their core values is.


Why it is ignored and hated:

This generation is interesting. So far, we have seen analysts being consistently wrong time and time again, third-party developers completely ignoring the console with the biggest installed base in years, and gamers hating the system to the point of irrationality. Why?

In the case of the analysts, it is simple: The analysts ignore disruption and Blue Ocean strategy, and instead analyze Nintendo on the metrics and values of traditional "Red Ocean" products. This will result only in failure, as the whole point of the Wii is to redefine the central values of gaming so that it can be sustainable again.

In the case of gamers and developers, they are blinded by a premise that more sophistication and advanced technology is inherently better. This is why:

1. simple games are seen as being for idiots who can't handle the real thing and have no idea of what quality is...

1b. ...which, in turn, is why many developers assign bad teams to do their "casual" titles whereas Nintendo assigns one of their best. The difference in sales is noticeable.

2. the Wii is ignored (as, by the old metrics, it seems lacking in comparison to the competition), and why many of it's best games are seen as bad.

Dropping this single concept from your view of gaming causes everything to make much more sense. Suddenly things aren't worse, just different (and maybe not aimed for you). Going back to the values of the old times isn't necessarily just going backwards, but perhaps fulfilling actual jobs that customers want to be done and offering what is important to them. Back in the arcade times games were games, and nothing else. It is what the customers want: Why would they buy a game otherwise?

Addendum: Playing is believeing

How does Nintendo manage to do that? You might notice that Nintendo doesn't really talk about demographics other than "plays", "used to play", "might play". Instead, they talk about smiles. All that talk about smiles isn't just corporate PR, Nintendo games become hits because they are tested with real people to see how they react to the game, instead of following some predetermined recipe for appealing to a demographic, Nintendo designates a job that needs to be done, makes a game to do that job - "make exercise fun", for example - and then makes people play the game to see if they have a hit on their hands.

It's the way Donkey Kong and Pong were tested, it's the way Wii Sports was tested. All three passed with flying colours. Interestingly, the old arcade games and early NES games would be very successful according to this metric. They, like many Wii games, have the qualities of simplicity, instant fun, and, eventually, challenge. This is why they succeed in the Arcade Test. It is this observation of what people do that is the heart of Nintendo's success.

The Future

Unlike people often claim, Nintendo hasn't exactly abandoned the Core gamer. As a company, Nintendo is still very much part of the Core market. It just doesn't see a long future for it, and so is performing a managed Core decline while moving into it's new Expanded Market that will eventually become the new Core. Core customers are customers where anyone else and will be serviced until it ceases to be profitable while at the same time increasing the sophistication of some of it's "New Gen"-based offerings enough to transition the Core over. ie. from Wii Sports Resort into Zelda Wii in terms of swordfighting games, and so on.



Who am I (or my gaming background, feel free to skip)

You could say I am an arcade gamer with a sweet tooth for atmospheric exploration. I started gaming on the NES and the Genesis (SMB and old Sonic games), played House of the Dead, DOA1, Time Crisis and Metal Slug in the arcades when they still existed, loved Crash Team Racing on the PS1. SSBM and Mario Kart: Double Dash are some of my most played games to date. Wind Waker's combat was extatic.

I got hooked into the exploration stuff with Metroid Prime and Golden Sun.
By the end of last generation, I was becoming disinterested in gaming. There just was less and less games that appealed to me, and I saw little in the early titles on the PS3 and Xbox 360 that appealed to me. Then DS and Wii happened, and I was playing games again.

Avatar image for clyde46
clyde46

49061

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#2 clyde46
Member since 2005 • 49061 Posts

I stopped when I saw it was about the Wii.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

I really want to make a thorough contribution to this thread but I'm kinda tired. I could always post my "apparently way too long to read post" and bedone but I think I should write something new. Also, define Red Ocean, Blue Ocean and disruptive property concepts for the audience myself included. We need to know exactly how you are applying the concepts.

Avatar image for runekey
runekey

697

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 runekey
Member since 2008 • 697 Posts

*head explodes*

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#5 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

Some posters especially the ones here don't want to admit it, but the way the current and future gaming market is going it isn't set up for them. It's set up for people who haveless time to play, unlike most school kids etc.

The needs of the masses will always heavily out-weigh the needs of the few.

Ninty is so sucessful this gen because they can offer this more so than the others yet still deliver deep and engaging games as well and fun casual games too.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

Some posters especially the ones here don't want to admit it, but the way the current and future gaming market is going it isn't set up for them. It's set up for people who haveless time to play, unlike most school kids etc.

The needs of the masses will always heavily out-weigh the needs of the few.

Ninty is so sucessful this gen because they can offer this more so than the others yet still deliver deep and engaging games as well and fun casual games too.

Bigboi500

Ita really because most posters here haven't a clue about how the industry actually works or what is actually happening to the vast majority of companies. Most people don't know anything beyond "so and so got good scores". Any critical analysis that isn't focused on features and games is beyond there grasp. Am I being harsh? Yes. Am I wrong? I don't believe so. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, post a critical analysis thread that has taken place in the last week. I'd love to see it.

Also damn I didn't think I was gonna get a solid analysis by someone with less than 100 posts but I was wrong. Not everything in there is correct but a lot of it is true.

Avatar image for Troqe
Troqe

675

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#7 Troqe
Member since 2008 • 675 Posts

From a business standpoint, Nintendo have done extremely well. However, taking back into account that we are Core gamers and not working for Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo I guess I'm just not happy with the new breed of homogenized, soulless and unimmersive 'casual' games that don't really keep me interested in the long term and reading this thread brings up the point, yes Nintendo are smart but why should we care?

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

From a business standpoint, Nintendo have done extremely well. However, taking back into account that we are Core gamers and not working for Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo I guess I'm just not happy with the new breed of homogenized, soulless and unimmersive 'casual' games that don't really keep me interested in the long term and reading this thread brings up the point, yes Nintendo are smart but why should we care?

Troqe

Because if you follow the industry, you'd know that shifts like these show massive swing in the industry and play a part in dictating what the industries next focus will be. Remember all the "Wii is killing gaming" threads that use to be around? Tell me, if you were not to care about what Nintendo did why did those threads exist? Why is the Wii still part of SW? The real answer is that nintendo's plan, there games and the way all the companies run themselves is very relevant to SW and gamers in general.

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#9 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

Some posters especially the ones here don't want to admit it, but the way the current and future gaming market is going it isn't set up for them. It's set up for people who haveless time to play, unlike most school kids etc.

The needs of the masses will always heavily out-weigh the needs of the few.

Ninty is so sucessful this gen because they can offer this more so than the others yet still deliver deep and engaging games as well and fun casual games too.

ActicEdge

Ita really because most posters here haven't a clue about how the industry actually works or what is actually happening to the vast majority of companies. Most people don't know anything beyond "so and so got good scores". Any critical analysis that isn't focused on features and games is beyond there grasp. Am I being harsh? Yes. Am I wrong? I don't believe so. Anyone who thinks I'm wrong, post a critical analysis thread that has taken place in the last week. I'd love to see it.

Also damn I didn't think I was gonna get a solid analysis by someone with less than 100 posts but I was wrong. Not everything in there is correct but a lot of it is true.

Harsh but true. I also agree with most of his post. The industry is moving this way and it's really the only way it could go if it is to last in the long run.

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts
Nice post. However, graphics are NOT going to hit a point of diminishing returns in terms of performance or expense anytime soon. Right now we are sort of in a funk, but recently the CEO of Nvidia http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15242/1/ stated that gpu computing would increase 570x more within a period of 6 years! Whether that means the power of graphics will increase 570x or graphics processors will just take over the market compared to traditional CPU's, I don't know. But with that much graphical expansion, developers certainly will have a lot to work with in the future.
Avatar image for ArisShadows
ArisShadows

22784

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 ArisShadows
Member since 2004 • 22784 Posts

I stopped when I saw it was about the Wii.

clyde46
Instead of taking a bit of time to read it and post something relating to what he said, being good or bad however you took it in. You simply wasted time posting this, instead of keeping this to your self, and walking away uninterested.
Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts
How many developers will be able to afford that?ActicEdge
As new technology comes out, old technology decreases in price. Developers don't necessarily have to be on the cutting edge of expensive tech to make a graphically immersive game. If graphical expansion increases 570x within 6 years, it's safe to say there will be plenty of affordable options available for both the consumer and developer.
Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]How many developers will be able to afford that?TheDuffman26
As new technology comes out, old technology decreases in price. Developers don't necessarily have to be on the cutting edge of expensive tech to make a graphically immersive game. If graphical expansion increases 570x within 6 years, it's safe to say there will be plenty of affordable options available for both the consumer and developer.

Yes true. Except look at the cost of games now. The cost of games normally increases by about 300% a gen. This gen virtually no publishers this gen are making any money. They are not reay for more expensive tech. The simple idea that more affordable avenues will exist is irrelevant. The cost will increase by a percentage that is not sustainable by developers. If you think game development costs are going to decrease you are wrong. With the same userbase buying games and coost increases games will evenually outstrup there worth.

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]How many developers will be able to afford that?ActicEdge

As new technology comes out, old technology decreases in price. Developers don't necessarily have to be on the cutting edge of expensive tech to make a graphically immersive game. If graphical expansion increases 570x within 6 years, it's safe to say there will be plenty of affordable options available for both the consumer and developer.

Yes true. Except look at the cost of games now. The cost of games normally increases by about 300% a gen. This gen virtually no publishers this gen are making any money. They are not reay for more expensive tech.

Software engineers and programmers work around the clock to find more efficient ways to use technology. I think we'll see that by the end of this generation, developing a game for ps3 and 360 will be less expensive and more efficient. Eventually we will be ready for new hardware. If not, then were stuck with Wii games for the rest of our lives lol
Avatar image for deactivated-5b69bebd1b0b6
deactivated-5b69bebd1b0b6

6176

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 deactivated-5b69bebd1b0b6
Member since 2009 • 6176 Posts

Some posters especially the ones here don't want to admit it, but the way the current and future gaming market is going it isn't set up for them. It's set up for people who haveless time to play, unlike most school kids etc.

The needs of the masses will always heavily out-weigh the needs of the few.

Ninty is so sucessful this gen because they can offer this more so than the others yet still deliver deep and engaging games as well and fun casual games too.

Bigboi500

Please tell me what positive point is there in a gaming future thats catered to casuals that have less time. I bet you can't, thats because there is no positive point other than to feed developers with money to make more casual crap no less. Gamers bring games and casuals bring nothing but crap. Thats what this generation and the Wii has shown us.

Avatar image for agentfred
agentfred

5666

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#17 agentfred
Member since 2003 • 5666 Posts

Suddenly things aren't worse, just different (and maybe not aimed for you). _Teron_
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the underlying concept of your post seems to be that simplicity does not necessarily mandate lower quality, instead, we're just biased, and haven't yet realized that our opinions are not fact. Thus, we foolishly assume that simpler games are worse, without recognizing that someone may have a different opinion. Therefore, no game can be definitively better than another. Frankly, I think we're all aware of this, and in theory, it's absolutely true. The trouble comes when you start putting this into practice.

Yeah, technically MGS4 doesn't have a "better" storyline than say, Barbie Horse Adventure (or whatever), in the same manner that Shakespeare doesn't have any more literary merit than Everyone Poops. Surely, to be completely opened minded we should look past our "bias" and see Barbie Horse Adventure as a thrilling piece of narrative, but in practice, that just isn't how the world works. If we stop playing dumb, we can all admit that BHA is a pile of trash. Yeah I know, I'm totally being biased, and you'll probably say, "well, it's just not for you". You're right, it isn't, and it isn't for me in the same manner that the vast majority of Wii titles aren't. Hey, maybe I'm just pretentious, but I'll take my Shakespeare over your Everyone Poops every day. :P

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#18 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

Some posters especially the ones here don't want to admit it, but the way the current and future gaming market is going it isn't set up for them. It's set up for people who haveless time to play, unlike most school kids etc.

The needs of the masses will always heavily out-weigh the needs of the few.

Ninty is so sucessful this gen because they can offer this more so than the others yet still deliver deep and engaging games as well and fun casual games too.

Crossel777

Please tell me what positive point is there in a gaming future thats catered to casuals that have less time. I bet you can't, thats because there is no positive point other than to feed developers with money to make more casual crap no less. Gamers bring games and casuals bring nothing but crap. Thats what this generation and the Wii has shown us.

So you're one of those self-proclaimed uber hardcore gamers are you? News flash: there are great casual games to enjoy this generation AND deep games for those with nothing better to do all day.

Don't thinkthe industry is just afactory for pumping out the same ole same ole generation after generation with mainly graphical improvements because most of those games don't sell to well with few exceptions.

Just because youi think it's all "crap" doesn't make it so. Look outside of your demographics and think of the larger picture. The majority of gamers now are on the go, getting married, having lives to live and don't have time to put 100s of hours into games per week. It's a smart move that is saving the industry from imploding on itself from catering to a small few who mostly aren't happy with the final product no matter what it is and devs know this.

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts

[QUOTE="_Teron_"]Suddenly things aren't worse, just different (and maybe not aimed for you). agentfred

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the underlying concept of your post seems to be that simplicity does not necessarily mandate lower quality, instead, we're just biased, and haven't yet realized that our opinions are not fact. Thus, we foolishly assume that simpler games are worse, without recognizing that someone may have a different opinion. Therefore, no game can be definitively better than another. Frankly, I think we're all aware of this, and in theory, it's absolutely true. The trouble comes when you start putting this into practice.

Yeah, technically MGS4 doesn't have a "better" storyline than say, Barbie Horse Adventure (or whatever), in the same manner that Shakespeare doesn't have any more literary merit than Everyone Poops. Surely, to be completely opened minded we should look past our "bias" and see Barbie Horse Adventure as a thrilling piece of narrative, but in practice, that just isn't how the world works. If we stop playing dumb, we can all admit that BHB is a pile of trash. Yeah I know, I'm totally being biased, and you'll probably say, "well, it's just not for you". You're right, it isn't, and it isn't for me in the same manner that the vast majority of Wii titles aren't. Hey, maybe I'm just pretentious, but I'll take my Shakespeare over your Everyone Poops every day. :P

The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.
Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#20 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.TheDuffman26
Talk about spinning the truth. What makes you think casual gamers want to play Barbies Horse Adventures AND what makes you think "hardcore gamers" want to play MGS4? One example just belittles casual gamers and the other example assumes the sophisticated market wants to play cinematic heavy games like MGS4.

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#21 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

Seeing the posts in this thread is what makes some of these ppl look even more sad that the "hardcore" gamers that blatantly hate on casuals. It really is to see ppl defending company's interests and the ways they market and support mediocre games instead of the interest of gamers and supporting great games with actual production values. It is not just those "grumpy hardcores" what's actually wrong with gaming by the looks of it.

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"]The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.Bigboi500

Talk about spinning the truth. What makes you think casual gamers want to play Barbies Horse Adventures AND what makes you think "hardcore gamers" want to play MGS4? One example just belittles casual gamers and the other example assumes the sophisticated market wants to play cinematic heavy games like MGS4.

Because the Wii has sold so much compared to ps3 and 360. And in my opinion most, not all, of Wii games are the equivalent of barbie horse adventures.
Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#23 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"]The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.Bigboi500

Talk about spinning the truth. What makes you think casual gamers want to play Barbies Horse Adventures AND what makes you think "hardcore gamers" want to play MGS4? One example just belittles casual gamers and the other example assumes the sophisticated market wants to play cinematic heavy games like MGS4.

He was giving two extreme examples that fit the criteria you just explained but for the most part: Who buys MGS4? And who buys Barbie horse adventure?
Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"]As new technology comes out, old technology decreases in price. Developers don't necessarily have to be on the cutting edge of expensive tech to make a graphically immersive game. If graphical expansion increases 570x within 6 years, it's safe to say there will be plenty of affordable options available for both the consumer and developer.TheDuffman26

Yes true. Except look at the cost of games now. The cost of games normally increases by about 300% a gen. This gen virtually no publishers this gen are making any money. They are not reay for more expensive tech.

Software engineers and programmers work around the clock to find more efficient ways to use technology. I think we'll see that by the end of this generation, developing a game for ps3 and 360 will be less expensive and more efficient. Eventually we will be ready for new hardware. If not, then were stuck with Wii games for the rest of our lives lol

I added text but the idea here is that after 3-4 years, most games are not profitable. The idea that it will take until the end of the gen is simply crazy. The next jump cannot be as big as this one if publishers want to survive.Its not a matter of "oh, theywill find a way and everything will turn out fine". That is simply, if gamers want the kind of graphical juump we constantly keep seeing, games will cease to be profitable for all but a select few. That is not an avenue I want to go down.

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#25 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"]The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.Dystopian-X

Talk about spinning the truth. What makes you think casual gamers want to play Barbies Horse Adventures AND what makes you think "hardcore gamers" want to play MGS4? One example just belittles casual gamers and the other example assumes the sophisticated market wants to play cinematic heavy games like MGS4.

He was giving two extreme examples that fit the criteria you just explained but for the most part: Who buys MGS4? And who buys Barbie horse adventure?

Barbie and Snake fans. But who are you or I to label them as casual or hardcore? There's way too much incorrect judgements thrown around this place.

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts
I added text but the idea here is that after 3-4 years, most games are not profitable. The idea that it will take until the end of the gen is simply crazy. "The next jump cannot be as big as this one if publishers want to survive."Its not a matter of "oh, theywill find a way and everything will turn out fine". That is simply, if gamers want the kind of graphical juump we constantly keep seeing, games will cease to be profitable for all but a select few. That is not an avenue I want to go down.ActicEdge
It can be if what Nvidia says turns out to be true. My whole argument is based on the fact that graphical expansion will increase 570x over the next 6 years. If that fails then so does my argument. I guess we'll see.
Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

Seeing the posts in this thread is what makes some of these ppl look even more sad that the "hardcore" gamers that blatantly hate on casuals. It really is to see ppl defending company's interests and the ways they market and support mediocre games instead of the interest of gamers and supporting great games with actual production values. It is not just those "grumpy hardcores" what's actually wrong with gaming by the looks of it.

Dystopian-X

Before you can take an objective look at anything you have to step out of your bubble and realize the big picture. This thread isn't about defending a corporation, its abbout informing yourself on how a corporation works and how it runs itself. My interest as a gamer aren't the same as yours the same way I do not care for lets say Naruto while you might. It doesn't make me wrong, it makes us different but that isn't the point. People who dislike the wii have this attitude that supporting it, its games and its role in the industry means turning your back on games. I'd rather turn my back on games to play what I like than hug and reward devs for taking the industry in a direction that benefits one group but not all. The way I want gaming to grow will not manifest accordingg to the old way of thought. I enjoy games but I also enjoy not being ignorant about how these games are made and how this industry is run. If you think people supporting what they like is wrong for the industry you are wrong. No opinions about it, you are absolutely wrong.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]I added text but the idea here is that after 3-4 years, most games are not profitable. The idea that it will take until the end of the gen is simply crazy. "The next jump cannot be as big as this one if publishers want to survive."Its not a matter of "oh, theywill find a way and everything will turn out fine". That is simply, if gamers want the kind of graphical juump we constantly keep seeing, games will cease to be profitable for all but a select few. That is not an avenue I want to go down.TheDuffman26
It can be if what Nvidia says turns out to be true. My whole argument is based on the fact that graphical expansion will increase 570x over the next 6 years. If that fails then so does my argument. I guess we'll see.

Your link never said anything about cost. That is the factor that will determine evertything.

Avatar image for WasntAvailable
WasntAvailable

5605

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="agentfred"]

[QUOTE="_Teron_"]Suddenly things aren't worse, just different (and maybe not aimed for you). TheDuffman26

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the underlying concept of your post seems to be that simplicity does not necessarily mandate lower quality, instead, we're just biased, and haven't yet realized that our opinions are not fact. Thus, we foolishly assume that simpler games are worse, without recognizing that someone may have a different opinion. Therefore, no game can be definitively better than another. Frankly, I think we're all aware of this, and in theory, it's absolutely true. The trouble comes when you start putting this into practice.

Yeah, technically MGS4 doesn't have a "better" storyline than say, Barbie Horse Adventure (or whatever), in the same manner that Shakespeare doesn't have any more literary merit than Everyone Poops. Surely, to be completely opened minded we should look past our "bias" and see Barbie Horse Adventure as a thrilling piece of narrative, but in practice, that just isn't how the world works. If we stop playing dumb, we can all admit that BHB is a pile of trash. Yeah I know, I'm totally being biased, and you'll probably say, "well, it's just not for you". You're right, it isn't, and it isn't for me in the same manner that the vast majority of Wii titles aren't. Hey, maybe I'm just pretentious, but I'll take my Shakespeare over your Everyone Poops every day. :P

The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.

The problem with saying that is that it's completely false, and dosn't really put across what you really mean. MGS4 is most likely in the top100 highest selling games of all time, we are talking millions, and there are very few examples of "casual" games that have outsold it. Excluding the "Wii Whatever" titles. By comparison Barbie Horse Adventures will be under a million most likely.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"][QUOTE="agentfred"] Correct me if I'm wrong, but the underlying concept of your post seems to be that simplicity does not necessarily mandate lower quality, instead, we're just biased, and haven't yet realized that our opinions are not fact. Thus, we foolishly assume that simpler games are worse, without recognizing that someone may have a different opinion. Therefore, no game can be definitively better than another. Frankly, I think we're all aware of this, and in theory, it's absolutely true. The trouble comes when you start putting this into practice.

Yeah, technically MGS4 doesn't have a "better" storyline than say, Barbie Horse Adventure (or whatever), in the same manner that Shakespeare doesn't have any more literary merit than Everyone Poops. Surely, to be completely opened minded we should look past our "bias" and see Barbie Horse Adventure as a thrilling piece of narrative, but in practice, that just isn't how the world works. If we stop playing dumb, we can all admit that BHB is a pile of trash. Yeah I know, I'm totally being biased, and you'll probably say, "well, it's just not for you". You're right, it isn't, and it isn't for me in the same manner that the vast majority of Wii titles aren't. Hey, maybe I'm just pretentious, but I'll take my Shakespeare over your Everyone Poops every day. :P

WasntAvailable

The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.

The problem with saying that is that it's completely false, and dosn't really put across what you really mean. MGS4 is most likely in the top100 highest selling games of all time, we are talking millions, and there are very few examples of "casual" games that have outsold it. Excluding the "Wii Whatever" titles. By comparison Barbie Horse Adventures will be under a million most likely.

I don't think MGS4 is in the top 100 selling games honestly. It isn't even top 20 this gen.

Avatar image for xsubtownerx
xsubtownerx

10705

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#31 xsubtownerx
Member since 2007 • 10705 Posts
So basically you're a casual gamer who likes the Wii. That's unheard of!
Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#32 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Talk about spinning the truth. What makes you think casual gamers want to play Barbies Horse Adventures AND what makes you think "hardcore gamers" want to play MGS4? One example just belittles casual gamers and the other example assumes the sophisticated market wants to play cinematic heavy games like MGS4.

Bigboi500

He was giving two extreme examples that fit the criteria you just explained but for the most part: Who buys MGS4? And who buys Barbie horse adventure?

Barbie and Snake fans. But who are you or I to label them as casual or hardcore? There's way too much incorrect judgements thrown around this place.

It is pretty asinine to say only MGS fans buy MGS games and only Barbie fans would buy these games unless you've never been on forums or live in a fantasy world. Most ppl who buy a game like Barbie horse adventure are clueless that don't know much about games or would put much time into it at all. The complete opposite almost happens with those who get MGS. If you think I'm wrong, lets ask how many ppl on this forum have bought BHA and how many bought MGS4? And how much they've played each and what games interets them the most since apparently some ppl can't tell by simply reading pots.

That information is enough for me (and others apparently) to label them.

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#33 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

Seeing the posts in this thread is what makes some of these ppl look even more sad that the "hardcore" gamers that blatantly hate on casuals. It really is to see ppl defending company's interests and the ways they market and support mediocre games instead of the interest of gamers and supporting great games with actual production values. It is not just those "grumpy hardcores" what's actually wrong with gaming by the looks of it.

ActicEdge

Before you can take an objective look at anything you have to step out of your bubble and realize the big picture. This thread isn't about defending a corporation, its abbout informing yourself on how a corporation works and how it runs itself. My interest as a gamer aren't the same as yours the same way I do not care for lets say Naruto while you might. It doesn't make me wrong, it makes us different but that isn't the point. People who dislike the wii have this attitude that supporting it, its games and its role in the industry means turning your back on games. I'd rather turn my back on games to play what I like than hug and reward devs for taking the industry in a direction that benefits one group but not all. The way I want gaming to grow will not manifest accordingg to the old way of thought. I enjoy games but I also enjoy not being ignorant about how these games are made and how this industry is run. If you think people supporting what they like is wrong for the industry you are wrong. No opinions about it, you are absolutely wrong.

It's not like I am ignorant about this argument that has been made in defense of NIntendo before. But it's more like I don't agree with them doing so. You talk about costs of production and games not selling but look at all the profit Nintendo is making with the Wii and compare that to the 2 or 3 non-casual titles they are putting out, that seems like benefiting one group more than the other doesn't it folks?

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Talk about spinning the truth. What makes you think casual gamers want to play Barbies Horse Adventures AND what makes you think "hardcore gamers" want to play MGS4? One example just belittles casual gamers and the other example assumes the sophisticated market wants to play cinematic heavy games like MGS4.

Bigboi500

He was giving two extreme examples that fit the criteria you just explained but for the most part: Who buys MGS4? And who buys Barbie horse adventure?

Barbie and Snake fans. But who are you or I to label them as casual or hardcore? There's way too much incorrect judgements thrown around this place.

Honestly who cares what they are labeled? The labels around here are just "my **** is bigger than your ****" words. It doesn't matter what they buy, they are consumers and they buy what they see worth in. There is a flaw in letting full grown self proclaimed hardcore gamers review barbie games not targeted at the 15-35 age demographic. I think we can all figure it out. The comments made about those games in SW explain exactly why reviews are so useless and most people are not to be taken seriously when discussing this.

Avatar image for WasntAvailable
WasntAvailable

5605

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"]The problem (for you and me) is the majority of the market (casual gamers) prefers barbie horse adventures over MGS4.ActicEdge

The problem with saying that is that it's completely false, and dosn't really put across what you really mean. MGS4 is most likely in the top100 highest selling games of all time, we are talking millions, and there are very few examples of "casual" games that have outsold it. Excluding the "Wii Whatever" titles. By comparison Barbie Horse Adventures will be under a million most likely.

I don't think MGS4 is in the top 100 selling games honestly. It isn't even top 20 this gen.

It's sitting at just under 5 million I think, though I don't think Wikipedia is the best source for that :/. Consider MGS 2 is sitting at 7 million, it's probably got a little bit to go aswell. I'm almost certain anything that's sold around 5 million will make it into the top 100. Not top 20 this gen though, that's actually harder than getting top 100 thanks to Wii Play, Sports, Mario Kart, etc. They are right at the top of the best selling games of all time.

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#36 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

I find it absolutely hilarious that there are so many gamers here claiming to be such hardcore players and labeling casuals withbelittlement and thinking they're so much better than others are when a huge majority of those same users don't own as many games, play as many genres, spend as much time as i do with games or have played as long as I have yet I don't think I'm better OR consider myself hardcore. :lol:

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#37 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

I find it absolutely hillarius that there are so many gamers here claiming to be such hardcoreplayers and labeling casuals with childish names and thinking they're so much better thanothers are when a huge majority of those same users don't own as many games, play as many genres, spend as much time as i do with games or have played as long as I have yet I don't think I'm better OR consider myself hardcore. :lol:

Bigboi500
No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.
Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

Seeing the posts in this thread is what makes some of these ppl look even more sad that the "hardcore" gamers that blatantly hate on casuals. It really is to see ppl defending company's interests and the ways they market and support mediocre games instead of the interest of gamers and supporting great games with actual production values. It is not just those "grumpy hardcores" what's actually wrong with gaming by the looks of it.

Dystopian-X

Before you can take an objective look at anything you have to step out of your bubble and realize the big picture. This thread isn't about defending a corporation, its abbout informing yourself on how a corporation works and how it runs itself. My interest as a gamer aren't the same as yours the same way I do not care for lets say Naruto while you might. It doesn't make me wrong, it makes us different but that isn't the point. People who dislike the wii have this attitude that supporting it, its games and its role in the industry means turning your back on games. I'd rather turn my back on games to play what I like than hug and reward devs for taking the industry in a direction that benefits one group but not all. The way I want gaming to grow will not manifest accordingg to the old way of thought. I enjoy games but I also enjoy not being ignorant about how these games are made and how this industry is run. If you think people supporting what they like is wrong for the industry you are wrong. No opinions about it, you are absolutely wrong.

It's not like I am ignorant about this argument that has been made in defense of NIntendo before. But it's more like I don't agree with them doing so. You talk about costs of production and games not selling but look at all the profit Nintendo is making with the Wii and compare that to the 2 or 3 non-casual titles they are putting out, that seems like benefiting one group more than the other doesn't it folks?

Sure depending on who you are. If you are a core gamer (ie basically a 15-35 year old male who demands sole attention) then you most likely aren't being satisfied. General fact is I don't really give a dman, Nintendo doesn't give a damn since they owe you nothing and the millions of people out there simply playing games don't care either. List wars are dumb, I made a thread about this alrready but core gamers were never nintendo's sole focus. Everyone (as in the general public) were. The company is not obligated to please core gamers, that's ridiculous by any standard. A company's goal is to meet internal progestions and goals, not to please forum dwellers and make feel good about themselves. Oh no, I am looking at this from normal perspective and not gamer perspective, I'm evil nowright? Naw, I'm just not going to be silly and act like in the grand scheme of things I matter as an indivdual.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

The problem with saying that is that it's completely false, and dosn't really put across what you really mean. MGS4 is most likely in the top100 highest selling games of all time, we are talking millions, and there are very few examples of "casual" games that have outsold it. Excluding the "Wii Whatever" titles. By comparison Barbie Horse Adventures will be under a million most likely.

WasntAvailable

I don't think MGS4 is in the top 100 selling games honestly. It isn't even top 20 this gen.

It's sitting at just under 5 million I think, though I don't think Wikipedia is the best source for that :/. Consider MGS 2 is sitting at 7 million, it's probably got a little bit to go aswell. I'm almost certain anything that's sold around 5 million will make it into the top 100. Not top 20 this gen though, that's actually harder than getting top 100 thanks to Wii Play, Sports, Mario Kart, etc. They are right at the top of the best selling games of all time.

I'm interested in this, I'm gonna go take a look lol.

Edit: I took a quick look, it seems it may be around the 50s maybe 60s. Its very hard to tell because wiki doesn't update but my general knowledge tells me that there are some inacuracies with those numbers. However I believe you are indeed right.

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#40 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

I find it absolutely hillarius that there are so many gamers here claiming to be such hardcoreplayers and labeling casuals with childish names and thinking they're so much better thanothers are when a huge majority of those same users don't own as many games, play as many genres, spend as much time as i do with games or have played as long as I have yet I don't think I'm better OR consider myself hardcore. :lol:

Dystopian-X

No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.

I never said ALL of you. Mostly It's posters who apparently own no games according to their profiles and who post ridiculous things then never come back to argue their points.

Not all Nintendo made games this gen have been catered just to casual gamers. :|

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

I find it absolutely hillarius that there are so many gamers here claiming to be such hardcoreplayers and labeling casuals with childish names and thinking they're so much better thanothers are when a huge majority of those same users don't own as many games, play as many genres, spend as much time as i do with games or have played as long as I have yet I don't think I'm better OR consider myself hardcore. :lol:

Bigboi500

No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.

I never said ALL of you. Mostly It's posters who apparently own no games according to their profiles and who post ridiculous things then never come back to argue their points.

Not all Nintendo made games this gen have been catered just to casual gamers. :|

The problem here is that there is no definition of a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer, so I don't know what you're crying about. I honestly don't care what you call them really. All I know is that it's hard for me to enjoy a Nintendo game because it looks like teletubbies compared to anything the ps3 has to offer, but according to sales of consoles, I am the minority.
Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#42 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

Sure depending on who you are. If you are a core gamer (ie basically a 15-35 year old male who demands sole attention) then you most likely aren't being satisfied. General fact is I don't really give a dman, Nintendo doesn't give a damn since they owe you nothing and the millions of people out there simply playing games don't care either. List wars are dumb, I made a thread about this alrready but core gamers were never nintendo's sole focus. Everyone (as in the general public) were. The company is not obligated to please core gamers, that's ridiculous by any standard. A company's goal is to meet internal progestions and goals, not to please forum dwellers and make feel good about themselves. Oh no, I am looking at this from normal perspective and not gamer perspective, I'm evil nowright? Naw, I'm just not going to be silly and act like in the grand scheme of things I matter as an indivdual.

ActicEdge

You are free to look at it from that perspective but then again I wouldn't like to see you arguing how the hardcore market are the ones who are detrimental to gaming since you aren't even arguing from the gamers perspective. So just like you and Nint. wouldn't give a damn about these gamers I don't give damn for their interests. Specially when Nintendo has made more than enough profit to put several non-casual games out there by now but they are too busy focusing on cashing in the easy way right now.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#43 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

I find it absolutely hillarius that there are so many gamers here claiming to be such hardcoreplayers and labeling casuals with childish names and thinking they're so much better thanothers are when a huge majority of those same users don't own as many games, play as many genres, spend as much time as i do with games or have played as long as I have yet I don't think I'm better OR consider myself hardcore. :lol:

Dystopian-X

No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.

Which one of "your" games (we're already into the mentality that we own games, that was fast) have been casualized? As far as I'm aware Nintendo still has no third party support.

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#44 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

I never said ALL of you. Mostly It's posters who apparently own no games according to their profiles and who post ridiculous things then never come back to argue their points.

Not all Nintendo made games this gen have been catered just to casual gamers. :| Bigboi500

Yeah not ALL of them but a majority....a BIG majority. Hell nintendo themselves have marketed the Wii and it's game from day 1 as a casual console. This shouldn't even be debatable |:

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#45 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"] No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.TheDuffman26

I never said ALL of you. Mostly It's posters who apparently own no games according to their profiles and who post ridiculous things then never come back to argue their points.

Not all Nintendo made games this gen have been catered just to casual gamers. :|

The problem here is that there is no definition of a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer, so I don't know what you're crying about. I honestly don't care what you call them really. All I know is that it's hard for me to enjoy a Nintendo game because it looks like teletubbies compared to anything the ps3 has to offer, but according to sales of consoles, I am the minority.

Judging games solely by how they look is very casual. :|

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Sure depending on who you are. If you are a core gamer (ie basically a 15-35 year old male who demands sole attention) then you most likely aren't being satisfied. General fact is I don't really give a dman, Nintendo doesn't give a damn since they owe you nothing and the millions of people out there simply playing games don't care either. List wars are dumb, I made a thread about this alrready but core gamers were never nintendo's sole focus. Everyone (as in the general public) were. The company is not obligated to please core gamers, that's ridiculous by any standard. A company's goal is to meet internal progestions and goals, not to please forum dwellers and make feel good about themselves. Oh no, I am looking at this from normal perspective and not gamer perspective, I'm evil nowright? Naw, I'm just not going to be silly and act like in the grand scheme of things I matter as an indivdual.

Dystopian-X

You are free to look at it from that perspective but then again I wouldn't like to see you arguing how the hardcore market are the ones who are detrimental to gaming since you aren't even arguing from the gamers perspective. So just like you and Nint. wouldn't give a damn about these gamers I don't give damn for their interests. Specially when Nintendo has made more than enough profit to put several non-casual games out there by now but they are too busy focusing on cashing in the easy way right now.

I now understand Subrosian's point in my last thread even better. He made a dman good one and he's basically right however I'll let him touch on that.

Let's get something straight, Nintendo owes you nothing. the idea that they could or shouldneeds to die. They do what they see best as a company regardless of whether we like it or not. The bolded is non sense and not an argument.

As far as arguing from the gamer perspectve you are wrong. I argue from my gamer perspective. The blind ignorant one SW likes to run with isn't the only one that exists. I think gamers like the ones in SW, the attitude of the industry and the focus of games now a days are detrimental to the growth of gaming. I'm not saying its all bad but rather its not all good like people around here act. And yes, you don't have to care, you just have to not spout false info. That is the real problem.

Avatar image for WasntAvailable
WasntAvailable

5605

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

I don't think MGS4 is in the top 100 selling games honestly. It isn't even top 20 this gen.

ActicEdge

It's sitting at just under 5 million I think, though I don't think Wikipedia is the best source for that :/. Consider MGS 2 is sitting at 7 million, it's probably got a little bit to go aswell. I'm almost certain anything that's sold around 5 million will make it into the top 100. Not top 20 this gen though, that's actually harder than getting top 100 thanks to Wii Play, Sports, Mario Kart, etc. They are right at the top of the best selling games of all time.

I'm interested in this, I'm gonna go take a look lol.

Edit: I took a quick look, it seems it may be around the 50s maybe 60s. Its very hard to tell because wiki doesn't update but my general knowledge tells me that there are some inacuracies with those numbers. However I believe you are indeed right.

Some of the sales figures are stunning, 22 million for Wii Play. That's remarkable for a game less than 10 years old, though it is in fact the highest selling game that has not been bundled with a console, which is even more insane. It is a bit out of date though, they could do with updating that.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#48 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"] I never said ALL of you. Mostly It's posters who apparently own no games according to their profiles and who post ridiculous things then never come back to argue their points.

Not all Nintendo made games this gen have been catered just to casual gamers. :|

Bigboi500

The problem here is that there is no definition of a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer, so I don't know what you're crying about. I honestly don't care what you call them really. All I know is that it's hard for me to enjoy a Nintendo game because it looks like teletubbies compared to anything the ps3 has to offer, but according to sales of consoles, I am the minority.

Judging games solely by how they look is very casual. :|

Why does it matter whether its casual or not? He's buying for him, not you or me. He can keep whatever opinion he pleases, calling it out for imaturity doesn't change the fact that i holds no releavnce and its none of our concern.

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#49 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"] I never said ALL of you. Mostly It's posters who apparently own no games according to their profiles and who post ridiculous things then never come back to argue their points.

Not all Nintendo made games this gen have been catered just to casual gamers. :| Dystopian-X

Yeah not ALL of them but a majority....a BIG majority. Hell nintendo themselves have marketed the Wii and it's game from day 1 as a casual console. This shouldn't even be debatable |:

Yet they still make great games for it like Zelda TP, Mario Kart Wii, SMG, SPM, and MP3 with games like NSMB Wii, Pikmin 3, SMG2 and Metroid Other M coming. Seems they've got both crowds covered pretty well.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

It's sitting at just under 5 million I think, though I don't think Wikipedia is the best source for that :/. Consider MGS 2 is sitting at 7 million, it's probably got a little bit to go aswell. I'm almost certain anything that's sold around 5 million will make it into the top 100. Not top 20 this gen though, that's actually harder than getting top 100 thanks to Wii Play, Sports, Mario Kart, etc. They are right at the top of the best selling games of all time.

WasntAvailable

I'm interested in this, I'm gonna go take a look lol.

Edit: I took a quick look, it seems it may be around the 50s maybe 60s. Its very hard to tell because wiki doesn't update but my general knowledge tells me that there are some inacuracies with those numbers. However I believe you are indeed right.

Some of the sales figures are stunning, 22 million for Wii Play. That's remarkable for a game less than 10 years old, though it is in fact the highest selling game that has not been bundled with a console, which is even more insane. It is a bit out of date though, they could do with updating that.

Yeah, its simply amazing. To think a game can get in the hands of so many people is truly stunning. Makes you respect the talent that goes into creating highly marketable games.