A rant on the state of things (LONG!! Now with extra chapters!)

  • 96 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Bigboi500
Bigboi500

35550

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#51 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"]The problem here is that there is no definition of a casual gamer or a hardcore gamer, so I don't know what you're crying about. I honestly don't care what you call them really. All I know is that it's hard for me to enjoy a Nintendo game because it looks like teletubbies compared to anything the ps3 has to offer, but according to sales of consoles, I am the minority.ActicEdge

Judging games solely by how they look is very casual. :|

Why does it matter whether its casual or not? He's buying for him, not you or me. He can keep whatever opinion he pleases, calling it out for imaturity doesn't change the fact that i holds no releavnce and its none of our concern.

It doesn't matter per se, it's just he is claiming to be on one side using that criteria so I gave my opinion about that formula.

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#52 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"][QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

I find it absolutely hillarius that there are so many gamers here claiming to be such hardcoreplayers and labeling casuals with childish names and thinking they're so much better thanothers are when a huge majority of those same users don't own as many games, play as many genres, spend as much time as i do with games or have played as long as I have yet I don't think I'm better OR consider myself hardcore. :lol:

ActicEdge

No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.

Which one of "your" games (we're already into the mentality that we own games, that was fast) have been casualized? As far as I'm aware Nintendo still has no third party support.

They don't? Because then I guess all the casualized on-rails ports with the waggle pasted on them like Dead Space and weaker ports like Dead Rising Wii are just part of my imagination then.

Anyways it's not so much that they have made all "my" games worse. It's more like they aren't putting out much for me to say "Hey these games aren't totally mini-games with not much lasting appeal or production values being sold at me at full price with the waggle stapled on them"

I see Bigboi mentioned a few like MP3 and Mario Galaxy (Zelda TP are you serious?) being released from time to time but that is far from having both crowds covered. If I go for a Wii expecting to be satisfied with these I'd have to leave it collecting dust for like what? 2-3 years untill they feel like releasing a new Mario (main series) Zelda and Metroid game?

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#53 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Judging games solely by how they look is very casual. :|

Bigboi500

Why does it matter whether its casual or not? He's buying for him, not you or me. He can keep whatever opinion he pleases, calling it out for imaturity doesn't change the fact that i holds no releavnce and its none of our concern.

It doesn't matter per se, it's just he is claiming to be on one side using that criteria so I gave my opinion about that formula.

I see. My general thought is that core gamers are the most shallow type of gamer there is but that's just me. Only demographic that has full knowledge of games and still makes the most ignorant statements and pushes the industry in exactly the direction they scream is wrong.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#54 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"] No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.Dystopian-X

Which one of "your" games (we're already into the mentality that we own games, that was fast) have been casualized? As far as I'm aware Nintendo still has no third party support.

They don't? Because then I guess all the casualized on-rails ports with the waggle pasted on them like Dead Space and weaker ports like Dead Rising Wii are just part of my imagination then.

Anyways it's not so much that they have made all "my" games worse. It's more like they aren't putting out much for me to say "Hey these games aren't totally mini-games with not much lasting appeal or production values being sold at me at full price with the waggle stapled on them"

I see Bigboi mentioned a few like MP3 and Mario Galaxy (Zelda TP are you serious?) being released from time to time but that is far from having both crowds covered. If I go for a Wii expecting to be satisfied with these I'd have to leave it collecting dust for like what? 2-3 years untill they feel like releasing a new Mario (main series) Zelda and Metroid game?

Nope, rail shooters and c team ports aren't real third party support. You my friend can be the first wii basher to say they are though, I'd love to see your reasoning

So essentially, the first thing you said is a lie and your basically saying that you want them to focus solely on you even though they have never done that in there history? Whatever you say. Like I said, I'm not getting into a list wars because nothing good comes from them but I will say nintendo is still releasing games. Hey, general concensus is nintendo has released quality this gen time and time again, not going to even bother trying to combat opinion.

As far as what you want from the wii, again, I really am not interested in arguing preference. Its a waste of my time and if the only games you see that exist are Mario, Martoid and Zelda, why would I try to tell you different?

Avatar image for WasntAvailable
WasntAvailable

5605

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#55 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"] No, don't assume all of us think casual games are bad. That's where some of you are wrong. I personally just simply see the difference in them and I wouldn't like all my games to be casual, specially not nintendo-casual like they've been making them with the wii.Dystopian-X

Which one of "your" games (we're already into the mentality that we own games, that was fast) have been casualized? As far as I'm aware Nintendo still has no third party support.

They don't? Because then I guess all the casualized on-rails ports with the waggle pasted on them like Dead Space and weaker ports like Dead Rising Wii are just part of my imagination then.

Anyways it's not so much that they have made all "my" games worse. It's more like they aren't putting out much for me to say "Hey these games aren't totally mini-games with not much lasting appeal or production values being sold at me at full price with the waggle stapled on them"

I see Bigboi mentioned a few like MP3 and Mario Galaxy (Zelda TP are you serious?) being released from time to time but that is far from having both crowds covered. If I go for a Wii expecting to be satisfied with these I'd have to leave it collecting dust for like what? 2-3 years untill they feel like releasing a new Mario (main series) Zelda and Metroid game?

Nintendo are producing games at the same rate as they have done in the past, and the Wii has more to offer than just Zelda, Metroid and Mario. Play LKS, Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, etc and the console really starts to shine. Just because you choose to look at the rubishy titles from Capcom on the Wii dosn't mean the Wii dosn't have good games. It has many, and more than enough to keep almost any gamer satisfied whether they realise it or not. If a developer makes a crap port of a game then that is the fault of the developer. Capcom don't take the Wii very seriously, and the only worthwhile thing they have released on it that comes to my mind is the Okami port, which was literally a port of a PS2 game with some very smallnew features.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#56 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Which one of "your" games (we're already into the mentality that we own games, that was fast) have been casualized? As far as I'm aware Nintendo still has no third party support.

WasntAvailable

They don't? Because then I guess all the casualized on-rails ports with the waggle pasted on them like Dead Space and weaker ports like Dead Rising Wii are just part of my imagination then.

Anyways it's not so much that they have made all "my" games worse. It's more like they aren't putting out much for me to say "Hey these games aren't totally mini-games with not much lasting appeal or production values being sold at me at full price with the waggle stapled on them"

I see Bigboi mentioned a few like MP3 and Mario Galaxy (Zelda TP are you serious?) being released from time to time but that is far from having both crowds covered. If I go for a Wii expecting to be satisfied with these I'd have to leave it collecting dust for like what? 2-3 years untill they feel like releasing a new Mario (main series) Zelda and Metroid game?

Nintendo are producing games at the same rate as they have done in the past, and the Wii has more to offer than just Zelda, Metroid and Mario. Play LKS, Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, etc and the console really starts to shine. Just because you choose to look at the rubishy titles from Capcom on the Wii dosn't mean the Wii dosn't have good games. It has many, and more than enough to keep almost any gamer satisfied whether they realise it or not. If a developer makes a crap port of a game then that is the fault of the developer. Capcom don't take the Wii very seriously, and the only worthwhile thing they have released on it that comes to my mind is the Okami port, which was literally a port of a PS2 game with some very smallnew features.

Kinda funny how you say Capcom's only worthwhile wii game is okami but meantion Zack and Wiki in the second sentence. :P

Avatar image for nosedive7
nosedive7

444

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#57 nosedive7
Member since 2005 • 444 Posts

Nintendo's philosophy may be correct and may work but if so, it will only be for Nintendo and Nintendo alone. It's not blue ocean anymore if everyone is swimming in it. Besides I don't see the correlation myself. Why would casuals all of the sudden turn into hardcore enthusiasts? You know the people that have kept this industry going all these years. Casuals are by definition gasp casual meaning they don't do it much, meaning they aren't going to be buying much, meaning it's a really surefire way to crash the industry again if you ask me. So apparently according to Nintendo the best strategy going forward in the gaming industry is to focus solely on people who aren't that interested in your products in the first place to get them interested like the people you just abandoned? Doesn't make much sense to me but hey I will sorta give them the benefit of the doubt since they are swimming in money and I am not.

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#58 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Which one of "your" games (we're already into the mentality that we own games, that was fast) have been casualized? As far as I'm aware Nintendo still has no third party support.

ActicEdge

They don't? Because then I guess all the casualized on-rails ports with the waggle pasted on them like Dead Space and weaker ports like Dead Rising Wii are just part of my imagination then.

Anyways it's not so much that they have made all "my" games worse. It's more like they aren't putting out much for me to say "Hey these games aren't totally mini-games with not much lasting appeal or production values being sold at me at full price with the waggle stapled on them"

I see Bigboi mentioned a few like MP3 and Mario Galaxy (Zelda TP are you serious?) being released from time to time but that is far from having both crowds covered. If I go for a Wii expecting to be satisfied with these I'd have to leave it collecting dust for like what? 2-3 years untill they feel like releasing a new Mario (main series) Zelda and Metroid game?

Nope, rail shooters and c team ports aren't real third party support. You my friend can be the first wii basher to say they are though, I'd love to see your reasoning

So essentially, the first thing you said is a lie and your basically saying that you want them to focus solely on you even though they have never done that in there history? Whatever you say. Like I said, I'm not getting into a list wars because nothing good comes from them but I will say nintendo is still releasing games. Hey, general concensus is nintendo has released quality this gen time and time again, not going to even bother trying to combat opinion.

As far as what you want from the wii, again, I really am not interested in arguing preference. Its a waste of my time and if the only games you see that exist are Mario, Martoid and Zelda, why would I try to tell you different?

Hmm a Capcom game and a EA game aren't third party? Then pls explain what those are.

And no I don't want them focusing solely on me, I want them to put more out there than what they've been doing for the core market since they have no problem putting out games like Wii-Sports-Wii-fit-Wiiplay Wii-etc games every single year as well as multiple Mario, Wario spinoffs and don't make me name all the other casual support they have that outscales the others like NMH, Zack&Wiki et.

I just love how you all mention 1 or 3 core games then ignore the big majority of games Nint. puts out and then say "Nintendo has the core market on a lock" when this is far from true.

Avatar image for Rob-Belmont
Rob-Belmont

1350

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#59 Rob-Belmont
Member since 2009 • 1350 Posts

Wii sympathizers really need to stop crying to damn much. Some people dislike the Wii for stupid reasons, WE GET IT.

Seriously, I love the Wii, I got one last week and I've been playing Wii Sports, Mario Kart and SSBB non stop, love them all, brilliant games.

But can you hardcore Nintendo/Wii fans give it a rest already? If I see one more wall of text explaining how the Wii isn't the spawn of the devil and is actually pretty good if you cast aside all the OMG SO CASUALL!!!!1!!1 nonsense and give it a chance I will be forced to write a wall of text of my own dishing out copious amounts of diss to you people.

Avatar image for WasntAvailable
WasntAvailable

5605

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#60 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

[QUOTE="WasntAvailable"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

They don't? Because then I guess all the casualized on-rails ports with the waggle pasted on them like Dead Space and weaker ports like Dead Rising Wii are just part of my imagination then.

Anyways it's not so much that they have made all "my" games worse. It's more like they aren't putting out much for me to say "Hey these games aren't totally mini-games with not much lasting appeal or production values being sold at me at full price with the waggle stapled on them"

I see Bigboi mentioned a few like MP3 and Mario Galaxy (Zelda TP are you serious?) being released from time to time but that is far from having both crowds covered. If I go for a Wii expecting to be satisfied with these I'd have to leave it collecting dust for like what? 2-3 years untill they feel like releasing a new Mario (main series) Zelda and Metroid game?

ActicEdge

Nintendo are producing games at the same rate as they have done in the past, and the Wii has more to offer than just Zelda, Metroid and Mario. Play LKS, Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, etc and the console really starts to shine. Just because you choose to look at the rubishy titles from Capcom on the Wii dosn't mean the Wii dosn't have good games. It has many, and more than enough to keep almost any gamer satisfied whether they realise it or not. If a developer makes a crap port of a game then that is the fault of the developer. Capcom don't take the Wii very seriously, and the only worthwhile thing they have released on it that comes to my mind is the Okami port, which was literally a port of a PS2 game with some very smallnew features.

Kinda funny how you say Capcom's only worthwhile wii game is okami but meantion Zack and Wiki in the second sentence. :P

Opps, forgot about that. Well they arn't making a sequel :evil:. Still, apart from Zack and Wiki and apart from the Okamiport, which was really an attempt to try to recuperatesome ofthe money they lost on PS2 title, they havn't taken the Wii very seriously.

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#61 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts

Nintendo's philosophy may be correct and may work but if so, it will only be for Nintendo and Nintendo alone. It's not blue ocean anymore if everyone is swimming in it. Besides I don't see the correlation myself. Why would casuals all of the sudden turn into hardcore enthusiasts? You know the people that have kept this industry going all these years. Casuals are by definition gasp casual meaning they don't do it much, meaning they aren't going to be buying much, meaning it's a really surefire way to crash the industry again if you ask me. So apparently according to Nintendo the best strategy going forward in the gaming industry is to focus solely on people who aren't that interested in your products in the first place to get them interested like the people you just abandoned? Doesn't make much sense to me but hey I will sorta give them the benefit of the doubt since they are swimming in money and I am not.

nosedive7
You bring up a good point. Selling to casuals is great for Nintendo because they only have to sell the Wii to make money. But since they tend to buy less games... it really sucks for the developers.
Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#62 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

They don't? Because then I guess all the casualized on-rails ports with the waggle pasted on them like Dead Space and weaker ports like Dead Rising Wii are just part of my imagination then.

Anyways it's not so much that they have made all "my" games worse. It's more like they aren't putting out much for me to say "Hey these games aren't totally mini-games with not much lasting appeal or production values being sold at me at full price with the waggle stapled on them"

I see Bigboi mentioned a few like MP3 and Mario Galaxy (Zelda TP are you serious?) being released from time to time but that is far from having both crowds covered. If I go for a Wii expecting to be satisfied with these I'd have to leave it collecting dust for like what? 2-3 years untill they feel like releasing a new Mario (main series) Zelda and Metroid game?

Dystopian-X

Nope, rail shooters and c team ports aren't real third party support. You my friend can be the first wii basher to say they are though, I'd love to see your reasoning

So essentially, the first thing you said is a lie and your basically saying that you want them to focus solely on you even though they have never done that in there history? Whatever you say. Like I said, I'm not getting into a list wars because nothing good comes from them but I will say nintendo is still releasing games. Hey, general concensus is nintendo has released quality this gen time and time again, not going to even bother trying to combat opinion.

As far as what you want from the wii, again, I really am not interested in arguing preference. Its a waste of my time and if the only games you see that exist are Mario, Martoid and Zelda, why would I try to tell you different?

Hmm a Capcom game and a EA game aren't third party? Then pls explain what those are.

And no I don't want them focusing solely on me, I want them to put more out there than what they've been doing for the core market since they have no problem putting out games like Wii-Sports-Wii-fit-Wiiplay Wii-etc games every single year as well as multiple Mario, Wario spinoffs and don't make me name all the other casual support they have that outscales the others like NMH, Zack&Wiki et.

I just love how you all mention 1 or 3 core games then ignore the big majority of games Nint. puts out and then say "Nintendo has the core market on a lock" when this is far from true.

Okay, I'll play your game. there is serious support and then there is hand-me-down support. The wii hasn't taken away the support that matters to most people on this forum. The big third party support.

And again, I really don't care what you want them to do, I'm not getting into a ninty defending stance where I say they have satisfied all. Why would I bother, that's not my concern. For the sake of showing you the ridiculousness of what you are saying however, let me out things into perspective

2006: Console launch Wii Sports
2007: Wiiplay
2008: Wiifit, Wiimusic
2009: Wiisports resort, Wiifit+

I count 6, one launch title and about 2 games in the series a year and this is in the span of 3 years. This isdevistating isn't it? General concensus is that all but wiiplay and Wiimusic are good. They will continue to do this, I don't see the problem buthey, I'm not a whiner. I will not list wars as I contiue to say so on that part I'm not gonna list there other projects. As for this casual hate you have, not my problem, not going to try and change your mind.

Avatar image for WasntAvailable
WasntAvailable

5605

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#63 WasntAvailable
Member since 2008 • 5605 Posts

Wii sympathizers really need to stop crying to damn much. Some people dislike the Wii for stupid reasons, WE GET IT.

Seriously, I love the Wii, I got one last week and I've been playing Wii Sports, Mario Kart and SSBB non stop, love them all, brilliant games.

But can you hardcore Nintendo/Wii fans give it a rest already? If I see one more wall of text explaining how the Wii isn't the spawn of the devil and is actually pretty good if you cast aside all the OMG SO CASUALL!!!!1!!1 nonsense and give it a chance I will be forced to write a wall of text of my own dishing out copious amounts of diss to you people.

Rob-Belmont

It's the hot topic right now. Graphical comparisons have gone a bit stale, and this is a new trend really, but it's alot more intresting to be honest. There's alot of people who don't agree with you, which is why these topics are made. Alot of people outright admit to hating the Wii, and they do so fairly genuinely.

But I mean this is SW, what would you rather we discuss? Which console has the best power button or this?

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#64 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

Wii sympathizers really need to stop crying to damn much. Some people dislike the Wii for stupid reasons, WE GET IT.

Seriously, I love the Wii, I got one last week and I've been playing Wii Sports, Mario Kart and SSBB non stop, love them all, brilliant games.

But can you hardcore Nintendo/Wii fans give it a rest already? If I see one more wall of text explaining how the Wii isn't the spawn of the devil and is actually pretty good if you cast aside all the OMG SO CASUALL!!!!1!!1 nonsense and give it a chance I will be forced to write a wall of text of my own dishing out copious amounts of diss to you people.

Rob-Belmont

Yeah it's true some ppl just bash it because "Teh casual" etc but some of us have actually given it thought and simply don't see enough reasons that point out how the wii is outstanding based on library and value. It's actually the opposite.

Avatar image for _glatisant_
_glatisant_

1060

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#65 _glatisant_
Member since 2008 • 1060 Posts

TC, what are you trying to argue?The Wii has been tremendously successful, and put Nintendo in a very strong position. It is also hard to argue that the Wii has been marketed at non-traditional audiences, which has in turn given rise to a higher proportion of cheaply made poor quality games a traditional player would have little interest in. This does not endear Nintendo to more traditional gamers, and though they have no obligation to please traditional gamers, we are also under no obligation to be pleased with the company's current direction, albeit a more profitable one.

So Nintendo are doing very well, while catering much less for the more traditional gamers than other consoles. This is not a good thing for more traditional gamers, especially if other companies follow suite. It might be unrealistic for us to expect them to please us when ultimately they would be the worse for it financially, but we have every right to be disgruntled with such a state of affairs.

This boils down to the following: Shovelware and casual games are more profitable than immersive games that require a substantial committment to complete, but there is still a population that prefers the latter, and have every right to be upset if the latter is threatened. What might be good for the companies might very well leave more traditional consumers worse off.

Avatar image for raskullibur
raskullibur

3390

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#66 raskullibur
Member since 2003 • 3390 Posts
More like defending Nintendo to the death
Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#67 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="Rob-Belmont"]

Wii sympathizers really need to stop crying to damn much. Some people dislike the Wii for stupid reasons, WE GET IT.

Seriously, I love the Wii, I got one last week and I've been playing Wii Sports, Mario Kart and SSBB non stop, love them all, brilliant games.

But can you hardcore Nintendo/Wii fans give it a rest already? If I see one more wall of text explaining how the Wii isn't the spawn of the devil and is actually pretty good if you cast aside all the OMG SO CASUALL!!!!1!!1 nonsense and give it a chance I will be forced to write a wall of text of my own dishing out copious amounts of diss to you people.

Dystopian-X

Yeah it's true some ppl just bash it because "Teh casual" etc but some of us have actually given it thought and simply don't see enough reasons that point out how the wii is outstanding based on library and value. It's actually the opposite.

Heh, feel free to go to a graphics thread if you guys are sick of this. Quite frankly as far as I'm concerned no one but TC has made any real point in this thread that isn't a rehash of normal arguments.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#68 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="nosedive7"]

Nintendo's philosophy may be correct and may work but if so, it will only be for Nintendo and Nintendo alone. It's not blue ocean anymore if everyone is swimming in it. Besides I don't see the correlation myself. Why would casuals all of the sudden turn into hardcore enthusiasts? You know the people that have kept this industry going all these years. Casuals are by definition gasp casual meaning they don't do it much, meaning they aren't going to be buying much, meaning it's a really surefire way to crash the industry again if you ask me. So apparently according to Nintendo the best strategy going forward in the gaming industry is to focus solely on people who aren't that interested in your products in the first place to get them interested like the people you just abandoned? Doesn't make much sense to me but hey I will sorta give them the benefit of the doubt since they are swimming in money and I am not.

TheDuffman26

You bring up a good point. Selling to casuals is great for Nintendo because they only have to sell the Wii to make money. But since they tend to buy less games... it really sucks for the developers.

But the wii sells the most software. How does that work exactly? Last year it sold the most third party games. Further more if you want sales you have to work for them as a dev, none of them do that on the wii.

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#69 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"][QUOTE="nosedive7"]

Nintendo's philosophy may be correct and may work but if so, it will only be for Nintendo and Nintendo alone. It's not blue ocean anymore if everyone is swimming in it. Besides I don't see the correlation myself. Why would casuals all of the sudden turn into hardcore enthusiasts? You know the people that have kept this industry going all these years. Casuals are by definition gasp casual meaning they don't do it much, meaning they aren't going to be buying much, meaning it's a really surefire way to crash the industry again if you ask me. So apparently according to Nintendo the best strategy going forward in the gaming industry is to focus solely on people who aren't that interested in your products in the first place to get them interested like the people you just abandoned? Doesn't make much sense to me but hey I will sorta give them the benefit of the doubt since they are swimming in money and I am not.

ActicEdge

You bring up a good point. Selling to casuals is great for Nintendo because they only have to sell the Wii to make money. But since they tend to buy less games... it really sucks for the developers.

But the wii sells the most software. How does that work exactly? Last year it sold the most third party games. Further more if you want sales you have to work for them as a dev, none of them do that on the wii.

Link to said sales? Not that I think you're wrong, I"d just like to see for myself what kind of games are selling. I'm sure I'm in for a dissapointment.
Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#70 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

Okay, I'll play your game. there is serious support and then there is hand-me-down support. The wii hasn't taken away the support that matters to most people on this forum. The big third party support.

And again, I really don't care what you want them to do, I'm not getting into a ninty defending stance where I say they have satisfied all. Why would I bother, that's not my concern. For the sake of showing you the ridiculousness of what you are saying however, let me out things into perspective

2006: Console launch Wii Sports
2007: Wiiplay
2008: Wiifit, Wiimusic
2009: Wiisports resort, Wiifit+

I count 6, one launch title and about 2 games in the series a year and this is in the span of 3 years. This isdevistating isn't it? General concensus is that all but wiiplay and Wiimusic are good. They will continue to do this, I don't see the problem buthey, I'm not a whiner. I will not list wars as I contiue to say so on that part I'm not gonna list there other projects. As for this casual hate you have, not my problem, not going to try and change your mind.

ActicEdge

Now compare these and don't ignore all the mario, wario and other of their main series spin-offs to the non-casual core ones they've been putting out there. How can you say all these games in the spawn of 3 years don't outscale the core ones they have made?

Avatar image for Dystopian-X
Dystopian-X

8998

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#71 Dystopian-X
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

Heh, feel free to go to a graphics thread if you guys are sick of this. Quite frankly as far as I'm concerned no one but TC has made any real point in this thread that isn't a rehash of normal arguments.

ActicEdge

Nah I wasn't poitning out that I was sick of it, just saying that there is more to it than just Teh casual argument. There's also the bad online, graphics, the waggle being used poorly in games etc.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#72 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="TheDuffman26"]You bring up a good point. Selling to casuals is great for Nintendo because they only have to sell the Wii to make money. But since they tend to buy less games... it really sucks for the developers.TheDuffman26

But the wii sells the most software. How does that work exactly? Last year it sold the most third party games. Further more if you want sales you have to work for them as a dev, none of them do that on the wii.

Link to said sales? Not that I think you're wrong, I"d just like to see for myself what kind of games are selling. I'm sure I'm in for a dissapointment.

Its sales age neogaf so its not linkable, you'll just have to trust me. It doesn't have what was selling though, just numbers. General thing was it was the most software third party wise.It having top Software is common knowledge though.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#73 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Okay, I'll play your game. there is serious support and then there is hand-me-down support. The wii hasn't taken away the support that matters to most people on this forum. The big third party support.

And again, I really don't care what you want them to do, I'm not getting into a ninty defending stance where I say they have satisfied all. Why would I bother, that's not my concern. For the sake of showing you the ridiculousness of what you are saying however, let me out things into perspective

2006: Console launch Wii Sports
2007: Wiiplay
2008: Wiifit, Wiimusic
2009: Wiisports resort, Wiifit+

I count 6, one launch title and about 2 games in the series a year and this is in the span of 3 years. This isdevistating isn't it? General concensus is that all but wiiplay and Wiimusic are good. They will continue to do this, I don't see the problem buthey, I'm not a whiner. I will not list wars as I contiue to say so on that part I'm not gonna list there other projects. As for this casual hate you have, not my problem, not going to try and change your mind.

Dystopian-X

Now compare these and don't ignore all the mario, wario and other of their main series spin-offs to the non-casual core ones they've been putting out there. How can you say all these games in the spawn of 3 years don't outscale the core ones they have made?

There is only so many times I can tell you I will not get into a list wars before I think you are not listing. I'm not going to list titles. I don't play that game.

Avatar image for Kiyobear
Kiyobear

836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#74 Kiyobear
Member since 2009 • 836 Posts

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Okay, I'll play your game. there is serious support and then there is hand-me-down support. The wii hasn't taken away the support that matters to most people on this forum. The big third party support.

And again, I really don't care what you want them to do, I'm not getting into a ninty defending stance where I say they have satisfied all. Why would I bother, that's not my concern. For the sake of showing you the ridiculousness of what you are saying however, let me out things into perspective

2006: Console launch Wii Sports
2007: Wiiplay
2008: Wiifit, Wiimusic
2009: Wiisports resort, Wiifit+

I count 6, one launch title and about 2 games in the series a year and this is in the span of 3 years. This isdevistating isn't it? General concensus is that all but wiiplay and Wiimusic are good. They will continue to do this, I don't see the problem buthey, I'm not a whiner. I will not list wars as I contiue to say so on that part I'm not gonna list there other projects. As for this casual hate you have, not my problem, not going to try and change your mind.

ActicEdge

Now compare these and don't ignore all the mario, wario and other of their main series spin-offs to the non-casual core ones they've been putting out there. How can you say all these games in the spawn of 3 years don't outscale the core ones they have made?

There is only so many times I can tell you I will not get into a list wars before I think you are not listing. I'm not going to list titles. I don't play that game.

I get the impression you spend more time in system wars posting about games then actually playing them. Your holier then thou routine is obnoxious.

Avatar image for nosedive7
nosedive7

444

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#75 nosedive7
Member since 2005 • 444 Posts

Put it this way if third parties sell so well on the Wii, then where is the support? Third parties would be falling all over themselves and each other to get in line and make Wii games if they thought it was profitable to do so. So then why don't they? Where are the announcements of serious games that 360/PS3 users would want but are going to the Wii due to it's massive third party sales? It isn't happening because third parties don't sell well on the Wii.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#76 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Dystopian-X"]

Now compare these and don't ignore all the mario, wario and other of their main series spin-offs to the non-casual core ones they've been putting out there. How can you say all these games in the spawn of 3 years don't outscale the core ones they have made?

Kiyobear

There is only so many times I can tell you I will not get into a list wars before I think you are not listing. I'm not going to list titles. I don't play that game.

I get the impression you spend more time in system wars posting about games then actually playing them. Your holier then thou routine is obnoxious.

Oh I'm devistated. Personal shots, well damn, time for me to pack it in right guys?

Avatar image for TheDuffman26
TheDuffman26

1346

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#77 TheDuffman26
Member since 2006 • 1346 Posts

Put it this way if third parties sell so well on the Wii, then where is the support? Third parties would be falling all over themselves and each other to get in line and make Wii games if they thought it was profitable to do so. So then why don't they? Where are the announcements of serious games that 360/PS3 users would want but are going to the Wii due to it's massive third party sales? It isn't happening because third parties don't sell well on the Wii.

nosedive7
Because they are so passionate about making GOOD games on the ps3 and 360. lol i know
Avatar image for Kiyobear
Kiyobear

836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#78 Kiyobear
Member since 2009 • 836 Posts

Put it this way if third parties sell so well on the Wii, then where is the support? Third parties would be falling all over themselves and each other to get in line and make Wii games if they thought it was profitable to do so. So then why don't they? Where are the announcements of serious games that 360/PS3 users would want but are going to the Wii due to it's massive third party sales? It isn't happening because third parties don't sell well on the Wii.

nosedive7

Not only that but a lot of game developers are also game lovers. Many developers are anxious to push the bounds of video games and find even current generation hardware insufficient. These developers want to develop for the PC and more powerful consoles. Casual gaming isn't killing hardcore gaming or vice verse; gaming is getting bigger all the time and there is room for both. It's a cut throat industry and despite the risks there will always be people willing to jump in and take those risks on.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#79 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

Put it this way if third parties sell so well on the Wii, then where is the support? Third parties would be falling all over themselves and each other to get in line and make Wii games if they thought it was profitable to do so. So then why don't they? Where are the announcements of serious games that 360/PS3 users would want but are going to the Wii due to it's massive third party sales? It isn't happening because third parties don't sell well on the Wii.

nosedive7

Don't ask me, that's what the data said. The idea that games don't sell on the wii has been debunked so many times though. General thoughts from what I've observed is due to genreal catch 22 syndrom and lack of effort and will to work with the wii platform.

Avatar image for nosedive7
nosedive7

444

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#80 nosedive7
Member since 2005 • 444 Posts

Hard to believe business people would pass up money making opportunities due to some misguided (albiet one I agree with wholeheartedly) belief in superior hardware. That would fly if the devs even really made those decisions but they don't. It's the people that fund the development and make the real business decisions that call those shots and they aren't getting on board either.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#81 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

Hard to believe business people would pass up money making opportunities due to some misguided (albiet one I agree with wholeheartedly) belief in superior hardware. That would fly if the devs even really made those decisions but they don't. It's the people that fund the development and make the real business decisions that call those shots and they aren't getting on board either.

nosedive7

Its not really hard to believe at all. I need to post that thread I had from before.

Avatar image for Kiyobear
Kiyobear

836

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#82 Kiyobear
Member since 2009 • 836 Posts

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

There is only so many times I can tell you I will not get into a list wars before I think you are not listing. I'm not going to list titles. I don't play that game.

ActicEdge

I get the impression you spend more time in system wars posting about games then actually playing them. Your holier then thou routine is obnoxious.

Oh I'm devistated. Personal shots, well damn, time for me to pack it in right guys?

You, having posted on this forum over seven thousand times in around nine months, suggests to me that you can no longer see for the forest for the tree's. You say to other people that they need to step outside thier bubble. Well, I am going to suggest that you have cloistered yourself in the worst bubble of them all.

Avatar image for ActicEdge
ActicEdge

24492

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#83 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Kiyobear"]

I get the impression you spend more time in system wars posting about games then actually playing them. Your holier then thou routine is obnoxious.

Kiyobear

Oh I'm devistated. Personal shots, well damn, time for me to pack it in right guys?

You, having posted on this forum over seven thousand times in around nine months, suggests to me that you can no longer see for the forest for the tree's. You say to other people that they need to step outside thier bubble. Well, I am going to suggest that you have cloistered yourself in the worst bubble of them all.

The bubble of having spare time and a boring summer? Sure, I'll admit that lol. As far as my bubble is concerned, I'm good, I get the time to do lots of things. Wht I'm curious in is why you care?

Avatar image for asylumni
asylumni

3304

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#84 asylumni
Member since 2003 • 3304 Posts

Ok, I'll bite. Let's see if I can dispell a few of these innacuracies.

*Quoting _Teron_ on the Law of Diminishing returns but past my quote limit*

Though a sound theory, we aren't at the tipping point yet. If this were true, there wouldn't be such a drastic disparity between Wii games and those of the PS3 or 360.

So, the gaming industry as a whole was betting on something really expensive that customers, at large, didn't value too much. They have been overshot by offering a load of stuff they don't really want, which just raises the hardware price.
The advancement in the online functionality is driving local multiplayer into extinction due to reasons that will be discussed later.

On the software side, there has been a trend towards more and more cinematic. Game developers have strayed far from gaming's arcade roots in pursuit of art. More precisely, they are trying to make games be like movies. There are some problems in taking this path, the most important of which is games not being movies (Kojima seems to disagree with me for some reason).

Some others are making more and more elaborate gameplay instead, to gain some prestige among the industry insiders and be praised for their genius.

As gaming is driven by content, it is reasonable to assume that a relatively large reason for this disinterest is the kind of games that are being offered. In other words, people do not desire intricate plots or complicated gameplay._Teron_

What customers are these, exactly? The ones who aren't console gamers? Wouldn't that make them NOT customers but prospects? And how have developer's strayed from gaming's roots? It's always been about having fun and new experiences, trying new things. Straying from the roots would be churning out the same old 2D PacMan game for 25 years. Gaming has grown and evolved to give a much greater range of experiences than were possible two decades ago. There was never a point where gamers said, "that's as good as I want it to be".


If you have read the above with an open mind, a realization should be dawning on you: There is a job to be done, and that job is saving the industry. Enter the Wii. It is plain to see that the Wii was a very calculated design, one that has the potential to succeed whereas the competition is set up for eventual failure._Teron_

This is just as ridiculous as the "PC gaming is dying" statements. The industry does not need saving, it is doing quite well. There are still many companies that make quite a bit of money. Sure, some fail, but there are others that are born. That is the nature of the business. It's been this way since the industry began, just ask Atari.


This generation is interesting. So far, we have seen analysts being consistently wrong time and time again, third-party developers completely ignoring the console with the biggest installed base in years, and gamers hating the system to the point of irrationality. Why?_Teron_

If the purple statement is true, wouldn't that explain the green?



Now, Wii proponents will make the claim that the Wii is saving gaming and the industry is shifting. The detractors will say it's killing gaming or it's an aberration. Neither of these are true. The fact is, gaming is expanding. It's not leaving anything behind. Sure, games are made by companies and companies want to make money and there's plenty to be made in the casual space (so much so that Nintendo has barely scratched the surface). But what some forget, is the companies that make these games are made up of people; people that are usually gamers themselves. The reason they become programmers and artists is to create the kind of games they like to play. They aren't going away and their efforts will only be supplemented by more casual gaming rather than supplanted.

Avatar image for 0rin
0rin

7179

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 0

#85 0rin
Member since 2006 • 7179 Posts

I stopped when I saw it was about the Wii.

clyde46
funny... I did the same. my care-o-meter redlined faster than enron stock.
Avatar image for SaudiFury
SaudiFury

8709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 1

#86 SaudiFury
Member since 2007 • 8709 Posts



The How:

If you have read the above with an open mind, a realization should be dawning on you: There is a job to be done, and that job is saving the industry. Enter the Wii. It is plain to see that the Wii was a very calculated design, one that has the potential to succeed whereas the competition is set up for eventual failure.

_Teron_

insta-fail in my eyes.

different products is great and all. but that right there, the characterization of the whole situation.

It's like saying "anyone with an open mind can see that God exists" right....

Avatar image for khai411
khai411

810

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#87 khai411
Member since 2005 • 810 Posts

I stopped when I saw it was about the Wii.

clyde46
^THIS
Avatar image for deactivated-5fc30280b8881
deactivated-5fc30280b8881

446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#88 deactivated-5fc30280b8881
Member since 2005 • 446 Posts

QUOTE="asylumni"

Though a sound theory, we aren't at the tipping point yet. If this were true, there wouldn't be such a drastic disparity between Wii games and those of the PS3 or 360. /QUOTE

What drastic disparity are you talking about? Graphical quality, arcade vs. cinematic focus, third parties making crap for idiots vs. real products for real customers, or something else?

What customers are these, exactly? The ones who aren't console gamers? Wouldn't that make them NOT customers but prospects? And how have developer's strayed from gaming's roots? It's always been about having fun and new experiences, trying new things. Straying from the roots would be churning out the same old 2D PacMan game for 25 years. Gaming has grown and evolved to give a much greater range of experiences than were possible two decades ago. There was never a point where gamers said, "that's as good as I want it to be". asylumni

Those prospective buyers are the customers that matter the most, currently. The Core market still exists as of now and can be sustained for a little while longer. Thing is, the Core Market isn't growing. Keeping the old customers reasonably happy is good and all, but if the Core is diminishing, new customers have to be lured in from somewhere. It is true that the current Core is essentially unsatiable as far as increased sophistication goes, but that route is one of ever-escalating costs and diminishing returns especially since the lower-end audience doesn't lust for better and better graphics. As far as the general populace goes, the Wii standard of graphics is Good Enough. Realize that this is not an absolute for all eternity, but merely the current situation. Sometime in the future, the market may well be receptive to an increase in graphical fidelity, and it is then that making the technological jump is economically viable: When most customers actually want it.

The current situation is most people just wanting to make calls, and the Core saying that everyone should have a smartphone.

[QUOTE="_Teron_"]
This generation is interesting. So far, we have seen analysts being consistently wrong time and time again, third-party developers completely ignoring the console with the biggest installed base in years, and gamers hating the system to the point of irrationality. Why?asylumni

If the purple statement is true, wouldn't that explain the green?


Now, Wii proponents will make the claim that the Wii is saving gaming and the industry is shifting. The detractors will say it's killing gaming or it's an aberration. Neither of these are true. The fact is, gaming is expanding. It's not leaving anything behind. Sure, games are made by companies and companies want to make money and there's plenty to be made in the casual space (so much so that Nintendo has barely scratched the surface). But what some forget, is the companies that make these games are made up of people; people that are usually gamers themselves. The reason they become programmers and artists is to create the kind of games they like to play. They aren't going away and their efforts will only be supplemented by more casual gaming rather than supplanted.

The green isn't just a lack of games. It is a seething hatred at the Wii audience, and the values they represent. It is a fear of being marginalized. It is the utter incapability of seeing the Wii or titles like Wii Sports or Wii Fit as quality products because they do not adhere to the Prettier Chainsaws mentality.

I am not talking about those people who simply buy an Xbox because they don't happen to like the Wii's offerings. I am talking about those people who, with near-religious fervor, proclaim that the Wii is a non-console, a mere toy for these casual idiots who are so clueless they cannot see the real quality, the awesome superiority of the HD graphics, and so on and so on.

That is the odd part.

Avatar image for deactivated-5fc30280b8881
deactivated-5fc30280b8881

446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#89 deactivated-5fc30280b8881
Member since 2005 • 446 Posts

Hard to believe business people would pass up money making opportunities due to some misguided (albiet one I agree with wholeheartedly) belief in superior hardware. That would fly if the devs even really made those decisions but they don't. It's the people that fund the development and make the real business decisions that call those shots and they aren't getting on board either.

nosedive7

The Core part of the industry has lost sight of the thing that sustains it: Customers. Developers and publishers are continuously making what pleases themselves, without thinking what the customers want. With the Wii's and DS's success, a clear message has been sent that the general public desires something different than the current Core experience, yet developers appear stunned as to why this is so and turn a deaf ear to those that give them the money to make the games. Again, again and again, year after year.

Some people get it, but they are few. EA Sports' Peter Moore might be one of them. High Voltage might be onto something, as well. Activision's Bobby Kotick sure as hell doesn't. He's thinking that since they make the stuff, the customers have no choice but to buy what they offer. Bad for him that a customer that's abused and exploited enough starts to resent you and ceases to be a customer.

On the analyst/blogger side, people like Rob Fahey and Sean Malstrom see what's happening. Most don't, and the great Pachter just doesn't seem to give a **** Hell, he's been consistently wrong nearly 100% of the time for the last four years and is onto his fifth Porsche.

Avatar image for CHRION987
CHRION987

468

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#90 CHRION987
Member since 2008 • 468 Posts

there not hardcore glasses, there gamer glasses. For people like me who have been playing since mario/duck hunt, who has read EGM since it began, who has follwed gaming for 20 years, to see gaming evolve as the gens past by. Games have gotten more and more depth, with more complicated controls that have slowly evolved from the 2 button nes to the 3 and 6 button genesis pad to the n64 and ps analog sticks, to now where we have pressure sensitive buttons. Moving a huge step backwards to using a simple tv remote with 3 buttons on it might be good for tiny tots, or old people (non gamers who havent evolved with gaming over the years) but its terrible for gamers who want things to continue to get more and more complicated and the games to be more huge, with even more depth. I dont give 2 squirts about non gamers "getting into gaming" I care about my hobby getting better and better for me. The Wii is a slap in the face and a joke to me, a gamer as real as gamers get. I dont hate it just to hate it because its the "cool thing to do" I dislike it because i have real reasons to.

Avatar image for deactivated-5fc30280b8881
deactivated-5fc30280b8881

446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#91 deactivated-5fc30280b8881
Member since 2005 • 446 Posts

there not hardcore glasses, there gamer glasses. For people like me who have been playing since mario/duck hunt, who has read EGM since it began, who has follwed gaming for 20 years, to see gaming evolve as the gens past by. Games have gotten more and more depth, with more complicated controls that have slowly evolved from the 2 button nes to the 3 and 6 button genesis pad to the n64 and ps analog sticks, to now where we have pressure sensitive buttons. Moving a huge step backwards to using a simple tv remote with 3 buttons on it might be good for tiny tots, or old people (non gamers who havent evolved with gaming over the years) but its terrible for gamers who want things to continue to get more and more complicated and the games to be more huge, with even more depth. I dont give 2 squirts about non gamers "getting into gaming" I care about my hobby getting better and better for me. The Wii is a slap in the face and a joke to me, a gamer as real as gamers get. I dont hate it just to hate it because its the "cool thing to do" I dislike it because i have real reasons to.

CHRION987

If you had your way, the industry around gaming would die, and who would then make the complicated games you like for you?

Avatar image for asylumni
asylumni

3304

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#92 asylumni
Member since 2003 • 3304 Posts

What drastic disparity are you talking about? Graphical quality, arcade vs. cinematic focus, third parties making crap for idiots vs. real products for real customers, or something else?

_Teron_

Graphical. The subject of the Law of Diminishing Returns and the Uncanny Valley. The thing Nintendo claimed would not be that disparate between the consoles.

Those prospective buyers are the customers that matter the most, currently. The Core market still exists as of now and can be sustained for a little while longer. Thing is, the Core Market isn't growing. Keeping the old customers reasonably happy is good and all, but if the Core is diminishing, new customers have to be lured in from somewhere. It is true that the current Core is essentially insatiable as far as increased sophistication goes, but that route is one of ever-escalating costs and diminishing returns especially since the lower-end audience doesn't lust for better and better graphics. As far as the general populace goes, the Wii standard of graphics is Good Enough. Realize that this is not an absolute for all eternity, but merely the current situation. Sometime in the future, the market may well be receptive to an increase in graphical fidelity, and it is then that making the technological jump is economically viable: When most customers actually want it.

The current situation is most people just wanting to make calls, and the Core saying that everyone should have a smartphone._Teron_

What makes you think the core market isn't growing? Sure, it may have been that way for Nintendo going from the SNES to the N64 to the Gamecube, but Sony had some wild growth from PS1 to PS2 and MS has seen growth in their consoles as well. There are still "complex" games selling several million and it really doesn't show any signs of stopping. Growth in one area does not indicate a diminishing of another.

But yes, costs went up for development of HD games, but this happens every console cycle. As each generation goes on, the costs come down as tools, engines and outsourced labour become more readily available and the associated hardware reduces in price. And, yes, minor improvements over the Gamecube gave the Wii the smallest cost increase, but only because all of the old tools still worked, all of the engines, and the system was known well enough that the games could be made the same way only with more of everything and a different controller input.

I would also argue that better graphics is something everyone can appreciate. What means nothing is the technology behind the scenes. It's more about results than methodology and the human condition demands that it's never enough. Current Wii level graphics will not satisfy people forever. The length of time may vary, but it will happen, for some sooner than others, and there will always be someone to fill that void.

The greatest misconception people have is thinking this is a new phenomena. The casual market has always been there, it just hadn't been measured by Nintendo or Facebook. The board games and card games of the past have been supplemented by the casual games of today as it becomes more readily available and more people become familiar with the technology required. If we have spare time, we will always find a way to fill it. Some will continue to want more from the games, some will lose interest and others will find contentment at a different level (for a while), but no part is doomed. Nothing has disappeared, we still have board games, we still have 2d shoot-'em-ups, it's just expanded to include much more.

The green isn't just a lack of games. It is a seething hatred at the Wii audience, and the values they represent. It is a fear of being marginalized. It is the utter incapability of seeing the Wii or titles like Wii Sports or Wii Fit as quality products because they do not adhere to the Prettier Chainsaws mentality.

I am not talking about those people who simply buy an Xbox because they don't happen to like the Wii's offerings. I am talking about those people who, with near-religious fervor, proclaim that the Wii is a non-console, a mere toy for these casual idiots who are so clueless they cannot see the real quality, the awesome superiority of the HD graphics, and so on and so on.

That is the odd part.

_Teron_

But as long as something exists, you'll have haters. Everything is subject, sports teams, religion, politics. Heck, I've had a few disagreements with the sun in the past. It happens. Does it really matter? For them, casual vs. hardcore, Law of Diminishing returns and any study you wish to provide mean nothing. It's our team vs. your team and everything else is just ammo.

Avatar image for deactivated-5dd711115e664
deactivated-5dd711115e664

8956

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#93 deactivated-5dd711115e664
Member since 2005 • 8956 Posts

My rebuttal:

While I DO have a Wii and applaud Nintendo for trying something different and appealing to a previously ignored audience...I DO feel that Nintendo is focusing so heavily on this new audience that it is going to cost them their base that has supported them all this time. I bought a Wii shortly after launch (when I could find one in the store) and at first I loved it. But now I also have a PS3 and the last game I played for Wii was Punch Out. Before that???? I can't even remember because I haven't touched it for months.

But here is the problem, as I see it. Right now Nintendo is making barrels of money focusing very heavily (if not exclusively) on this new audience. However, I see ZERO - let me repeat, ZERO - evidence that this new audience is going to be around long term with Nintendo. Nintendo is reaching out to a group of people who are not gamers. People who see the Wii as an electronic sudoku puzle. Something you play for a few minutes and then forget about it. I can't see one single bit of evidence, whether that be word of mouth, articles, whatever, that shows these people are turning into regular gamers who will stay with gaming for the long term. Therefore, Nintendo is sacrificing the base gamers to focus on a group that I don't think will be around to support them next gen anyway.

Meanwhile, let's assume that Nintendo IS building a new base of gamer. What is Nintendo offering to keep them interested as they get older and want to try new and diiferent games? Nothing because those are the games and genres that the base is interested in but NIntendo is not providing. And don't get me started on third party devs and the crap they are putting out. Even IF NIntendo is in the right, and the Wii is attracting new gamers...once those gamers get more interested and involved, they are going to start wanting the games that other consoles have but Nintendo is ignoring or not providing so they are going to leave Nintendo anyway.

I could go on all day about this issue. I am a disillusioned Nintendo supporter who has owned every Nintendo console. I honestly see Nintendo shooting themselves in the foot here. Maybe I'm wrong...but I see no evidence of this. All I see is evidence-free stories written by Nintendo fanboys who claim there is some genius motivation pushing NIntendo in this direction. But nobody seems to ask what that direction is leading and if that is someplace that, in the long run, is even worth going.

Avatar image for deactivated-5fc30280b8881
deactivated-5fc30280b8881

446

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#94 deactivated-5fc30280b8881
Member since 2005 • 446 Posts

But here is the problem, as I see it. Right now Nintendo is making barrels of money focusing very heavily (if not exclusively) on this new audience. However, I see ZERO - let me repeat, ZERO - evidence that this new audience is going to be around long term with Nintendo. Nintendo is reaching out to a group of people who are not gamers. People who see the Wii as an electronic sudoku puzle. Something you play for a few minutes and then forget about it. I can't see one single bit of evidence, whether that be word of mouth, articles, whatever, that shows these people are turning into regular gamers who will stay with gaming for the long term. Therefore, Nintendo is sacrificing the base gamers to focus on a group that I don't think will be around to support them next gen anyway.

Meanwhile, let's assume that Nintendo IS building a new base of gamer. What is Nintendo offering to keep them interested as they get older and want to try new and diiferent games? Nothing because those are the games and genres that the base is interested in but NIntendo is not providing. And don't get me started on third party devs and the crap they are putting out. Even IF NIntendo is in the right, and the Wii is attracting new gamers...once those gamers get more interested and involved, they are going to start wanting the games that other consoles have but Nintendo is ignoring or not providing so they are going to leave Nintendo anyway.

I could go on all day about this issue. I am a disillusioned Nintendo supporter who has owned every Nintendo console. I honestly see Nintendo shooting themselves in the foot here. Maybe I'm wrong...but I see no evidence of this. All I see is evidence-free stories written by Nintendo fanboys who claim there is some genius motivation pushing NIntendo in this direction. But nobody seems to ask what that direction is leading and if that is someplace that, in the long run, is even worth going.

ZIMdoom

The Expanded Audience, or a large part of it anyway, is going to stay around as long as Nintendo manages to offer them new surprises and experiences. Like the current Core, the Expanded Audience wants content, and this is the first generation since the NES that they are being served well.

You also have to realize, the Expanded Audience consists of arcade-minded gamers. They aren't terribly interested in a convoluted, cutscene-driven epic like Sons of the Patriots, but as the Wii's disruptive technology keeps improving, it starts to attract current or lapsed Core customers. Some Expanded Audience members will no doubt also lust for more. To them, Wii Sports Swordfighting is a good and fun game, but they'd like that little bit of extra. Exploring a fantastic world while vanquishing terrible monsters over the course of a heroic adventure in Zelda Wii might be more in the vein of what they want. This is being done.

It isn't intrinsically wrong to make high-end games, not at all. There will always be customers who enjoy sophistication, and as such at least some high-end games should be made. What I am getting at here is that an industry based on high-end sophistication is going to eventually fail. The current gaming industry committed precisely that mistake: They forgot the arcade gamer and shot ever higher and higher upmarket, forgetting first the everyday customer, and, as developer hubris increased, the high-end one as well, until they passed the point of no return. Nintendo is performing a reset to prevent a catastrophic crash like the one in the Atari Era and trying to remember the lower end too, this time.

Also, new content in the OP: How Nintendo makes the lowmarket hits and why third parties fail at the task.

Avatar image for Isalien
Isalien

37

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#95 Isalien
Member since 2009 • 37 Posts
No one cares. Go away.
Avatar image for enterawesome
enterawesome

9477

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#96 enterawesome
Member since 2009 • 9477 Posts
I skipped to the part about the future, and I already knew that. Nintendo is making new gamers, while catering dedicated gamers. I hope Zelda Wii might strike that cord that will draw in both audiences with Wii Motion+ and all.