A simpel solution for console devs to peak graphics, frames, and performace.

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

super600

[QUOTE="super600"]

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

soulitane

He talks about vram and then switches and talks about ram with a bunch of junk inbetween that's hard to decipher.

The only thing that can improve the visuals and fix the performance of consoles is new hardware.

The consoles must die so that new baby consoles can be born.

then the PC can come in and eat some fo those baby consoles to ge bigger and stronger. But not all of them, because they're kind fo cute, until they poop their diapers of cours,e the no one wants to handle them.

Where was I goign with this?

you say the vram isn't powerful enough then you say they should cut it in half ?!?!?!? i don't get it TheGrudge13

Wouldn't that make games have a lot less texture details if you spilt the vram in the consoles.

So, try to use less initially, thus leaving more to spare? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

...Or just put 1-2GB VRAM and call it a day.

The only thing that can improve the visuals and fix the performance of consoles is new hardware.

The consoles must die so that new baby consoles can be born.

then the PC can come in and eat some fo those baby consoles to ge bigger and stronger. But not all of them, because they're kind fo cute, until they poop their diapers of cours,e the no one wants to handle them.

Where was I goign with this?

Kinthalis

Current consoles?

[QUOTE="TheGrudge13"]you say the vram isn't powerful enough then you say they should cut it in half ?!?!?!? i don't get it super600

Wouldn't that make games have a lot less texture details if you spilt the vram in the consoles.

Get a patent. You'll win a lot of money.

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

super600

You speak of virtual memory yes? Okay lets assume we implememt your idea and I give my console an overhead of 256MB of memory or so.

Donyou know what happens when that runs out? The computer then allocates a portion of the hard disk to serve as virtual memory and puts unfrequently used processes in there. This is just FINE as long as the computer doesnt need to be going back in forth between physical and virtual memory, in which case the computer will start 'thrashing' and youre going to see a huge performance hit.

Youre suggestion will result in precisely this. So no its not a good idea.

[QUOTE="super600"]

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

Dr-fanboy

oh you're talking about virtual ram... right???

You would need a hard-disc to do that, and they allready do that on PS3 (what do you think those big installs on some games are for?) but Wii and 360 do not come with a hard-disc as standard so they cant do that there..

[QUOTE="super600"]

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

Dr-fanboy

I already know how to read sir and your idea is ridiculous.You need ram to run games and the OS of a console.So if you have less ram then the console will struggle to run things in the background a bi more.VRAM is video memory and it's only used mostly for games.

[QUOTE="Dr-fanboy"][QUOTE="super600"]

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

super600

I already know how to read sir and your idea is ridiculous.You need ram to run games and the OS of a console.So if you have less ram then the console will struggle to run things in the background a bi more.VRAM is video memory and it's only used mostly for games.

Hes talking about virtual ram

[QUOTE="Dr-fanboy"][QUOTE="super600"]

I seriously don't get what you're talking about dude?

super600

I already know how to read sir and your idea is ridiculous.You need ram to run games and the OS of a console.So if you have less ram then the console will struggle to run things in the background a bi more.VRAM is video memory and it's only used mostly for games.

he means virtual ram. But he is still really uninformed on how that works, and that it is already implemented where it can be on the PS3.

And Virtual ram is definitely not faster than normal ram, as it's only as fast as the HD thats in the system

[QUOTE="super600"]

[QUOTE="Dr-fanboy"] Lol? Learn 2 read sir. I said that if you cut half the Ram it would make more room for VRAM. This is how Vram works: Vram is used when a program, etc. is taking up to much ram for the processor or chip used in a type of electronic can handle. So to make up for it while running another program or process, the spare memeoy in the device is sometimes temporarily used as a sort of back up ram. This fake ram is called VRam. Vram can take place of real ram in the event of too much processing going on at one time" Essentially, cutting the ram will allow more space fo Vram, and everything can increase. Vram as it uses memeory, holds more and processses faster then regular Ram and thus should be the preffered method in game development. As you now see, it;s a simple solution to the console problem. Great frames, great detail, more memory, less jags, more draw distance, allowing more features. This is what devs should havfe been doing.tumle

I already know how to read sir and your idea is ridiculous.You need ram to run games and the OS of a console.So if you have less ram then the console will struggle to run things in the background a bi more.VRAM is video memory and it's only used mostly for games.

he means virtual ram. But he is still really uninformed on how that works, and that it is already implemented where it can be on the PS3

Video ram is better than virtual ram. My VRAM on my 460s are 4GB, lulz.

Give them a better GPU and more RAM? The other option would be overclocking. But that's risky and could fry them.

Give them a better GPU and more RAM? The other option would be overclocking. But that's risky and could fry them.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Give them a better GPU and more RAM? The other option would be overclocking. But that's risky and could fry them.

[/QUOTE No, it would be easier and much more effective to cut ram and focus game dev mostly on Vram. Vram is fast than ram and can post the processings faster immediately negating texture pop-in. While improving graphics, draw distances, and lowering loading times as thins are processed and drawn faster. Then use the other thing with ram, and then giving the customer the grand gaming exprieince without the screen tear and the like. Although I haven't seen much screen tear this gen but maybe I have been avoiding the games that do. Hmm.Dr-fanboy

V-RAM is good for the graphics but too little system RAM would result in more linear games. There has to be a ballance. But I'll agree that consoles' biggest drawback is the small amounts of RAM they have.

[QUOTE="Dr-fanboy"][QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Give them a better GPU and more RAM? The other option would be overclocking. But that's risky and could fry them.

[/QUOTE No, it would be easier and much more effective to cut ram and focus game dev mostly on Vram. Vram is fast than ram and can post the processings faster immediately negating texture pop-in. While improving graphics, draw distances, and lowering loading times as thins are processed and drawn faster. Then use the other thing with ram, and then giving the customer the grand gaming exprieince without the screen tear and the like. Although I haven't seen much screen tear this gen but maybe I have been avoiding the games that do. Hmm.nameless12345

V-RAM is good for the graphics but too little system RAM would result in more linear games. There has to be a ballance. But I'll agree that consoles' biggest drawback is the small amounts of RAM they have.

I'd say the limited processing power of thier outdated CPU's and GPU's is a VERY close second.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Dr-fanboy"][QUOTE="nameless12345"]

Give them a better GPU and more RAM? The other option would be overclocking. But that's risky and could fry them.

[/QUOTE No, it would be easier and much more effective to cut ram and focus game dev mostly on Vram. Vram is fast than ram and can post the processings faster immediately negating texture pop-in. While improving graphics, draw distances, and lowering loading times as thins are processed and drawn faster. Then use the other thing with ram, and then giving the customer the grand gaming exprieince without the screen tear and the like. Although I haven't seen much screen tear this gen but maybe I have been avoiding the games that do. Hmm.Kinthalis

V-RAM is good for the graphics but too little system RAM would result in more linear games. There has to be a ballance. But I'll agree that consoles' biggest drawback is the small amounts of RAM they have.

I'd say the limited processing power of thier outdated CPU's and GPU's is a VERY close second.

Well, I think CPU is not that important for a console and you can still get some nice graphics on an older GPU.

TC really has no idea what hes talking about. RAM (virtual or physical) is used for storing information, not drawing polygons you need a GPU to do that. Dont believe me?

Build a computer with a GeForc 7000 series card and put in all the ram you want lets say 16GBs. Now build a computer with a GTX 460 and only 2GBs of memory which is going to perform better?

Most games dont even use 4GBs of memory, using vram only make things worse, hard disks have slower read/write speeds than memory modules.

Actually I think he's talking about video-ram lol

I have compiled a simple solution for the consistent lack of HD, the terrible framerates, and the sacrafices in detail, including the bad resolution the, blurry textures, and without needing to add effect like motion blur, outdated AA processing and others. So let me basiaclly sum this up. I believe that all you need is more powerful V-ram. So what do I mean? well, the ram in each of the consoles including the wii uses up a lot, and it's hard for consoles to peak with all that cramped space with caps and limits. Infact, the Ram has a limit,. If devs cut the ram in half for their games when using the systems, that allows spare memory which can be used for v-ram. Infact, doing so would allow more Vram then the regular ram that was used before allowing more processing, memory, and power for games graphics, FPS, textures, detail, animation, lowering tesselation performace issues, and a lot more, and it woul take away the jaggies so games can look as smoooth as Ajag and N64 graphics, but realistic, in HD, with barely any technical issues. So that simple solution is all that is needed and I thank you for taking the time to hear from the doctor. As you know this research has took a lot of indepth discovery of each console. Even the Wii can do better, Just cut that RAM.Dr-fanboy

You arent a rocket scientist that's for sure.

I have compiled a simple solution for the consistent lack of HD, the terrible framerates, and the sacrafices in detail, including the bad resolution the, blurry textures, and without needing to add effect like motion blur, outdated AA processing and others. So let me basiaclly sum this up. I believe that all you need is more powerful V-ram. So what do I mean? well, the ram in each of the consoles including the wii uses up a lot, and it's hard for consoles to peak with all that cramped space with caps and limits. Infact, the Ram has a limit,. If devs cut the ram in half for their games when using the systems, that allows spare memory which can be used for v-ram. Infact, doing so would allow more Vram then the regular ram that was used before allowing more processing, memory, and power for games graphics, FPS, textures, detail, animation, lowering tesselation performace issues, and a lot more, and it woul take away the jaggies so games can look as smoooth as Ajag and N64 graphics, but realistic, in HD, with barely any technical issues. So that simple solution is all that is needed and I thank you for taking the time to hear from the doctor. As you know this research has took a lot of indepth discovery of each console. Even the Wii can do better, Just cut that RAM. Dr-fanboy

NVIDIA RSX has ROPs and memory controllers from Geforce 7600GT i.e. it needs more than V-RAM upgrade.

Refer to AMD Radeon HD 6570M (mobile part) GDDR5 vs AMD Radeon HD 6770 (desktop part) GDDR5 i.e. both has 128bit GDDR5 V-RAM. AMD Radeon HD 6770 kills AMD Radeon HD 6570M.

PS.

AMD Radeon HD 6570M is a rename/recycled/respin AMD Radeon HD 57X0M i.e. AMD Radeon HD 5730M = GDDR3, AMD Radeon HD 5770M = GDDR5. AMD Radeon HD 6570M can come in either GDDR3 or GDDR5 i.e. read the fine print when buying.

AMD Radeon HD 6770 is arename/recycled/respin AMD Radeon HD 5770.

[QUOTE="Dr-fanboy"] Vram is more powerful then ram,starjet905

The G letter in GDDR memory type stands for Graphics i.e. optimised for graphics.

GDDR3s strobe signal unlike DDR2 SDRAM is unidirectional & single-ended (RDQS, WDQS). This means there is a separate read and write data strobe allowing for a quicker read to write ratio than DDR2. - wiki

Large economic driver for GDDR R&D comes from AMD (red team side)and NVIDIA i.e. to thier feed math array processors monsters.

Video ram is better than virtual ram. My VRAM on my 460s are 4GB, lulz.

mitu123

Large chunk of the 4GB number refers to the shared video memory with the main system ram.

Where's Teuf?

If he posted in this thread already, I apologize... I didn't read it.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Video ram is better than virtual ram. My VRAM on my 460s are 4GB, lulz.

ronvalencia

Large chunk of the 4GB number refers to the shared video memory with the main system ram.

[QUOTE="starjet905"][QUOTE="Dr-fanboy"] Vram is more powerful then ram,ronvalencia

The G letter in GDDR memory type stands for Graphics i.e. optimised for graphics.

GDDR3s strobe signal unlike DDR2 SDRAM is unidirectional & single-ended (RDQS, WDQS). This means there is a separate read and write data strobe allowing for a quicker read to write ratio than DDR2. - wiki

Large economic driver for GDDR R&D comes from AMD (red team side)and NVIDIA i.e. to thier feed math array processors monsters.

but how are they gonna cut it ? Use an axe a knife or an old fashion cleaveradamosmaki

Is he talking about video ram (VRAM) or virtual ram (Page file)?

Virtual ram is just using the hard drive, so it's slow as hell.

lol TC you have no clue.

So we should download more Ram on our consoles?

inb4 24 fps and... aaaahh nevermind.....

Its all about money. People dont seem to understand that.

Its also about how much stuff you can cram into such a tiny frame. Its also about how hot components get.

There are so many variables that people dont seem to understand. Its not as simple as "Oh i dont understand why they didnt put more ram in". Realize that such a small increase in hardware, ends up costing hundreds of millions, in addition to what they already spend in development. They need to cut corners.

Also, after reading OPs post again, i realize this guy has no idea what he is talking about. He has literelly just skimmed over a wikipedia page about computer memory.

I have compiled a simple solution for the consistent lack of HD, the terrible framerates, and the sacrafices in detail, including the bad resolution the, blurry textures, and without needing to add effect like motion blur, outdated AA processing and others. So let me basiaclly sum this up. I believe that all you need is more powerful V-ram. So what do I mean? well, the ram in each of the consoles including the wii uses up a lot, and it's hard for consoles to peak with all that cramped space with caps and limits. Infact, the Ram has a limit,. If devs cut the ram in half for their games when using the systems, that allows spare memory which can be used for v-ram. Infact, doing so would allow more Vram then the regular ram that was used before allowing more processing, memory, and power for games graphics, FPS, textures, detail, animation, lowering tesselation performace issues, and a lot more, and it woul take away the jaggies so games can look as smoooth as Ajag and N64 graphics, but realistic, in HD, with barely any technical issues.So that simple solution is all that is needed and I thank you for taking the time to hear from the doctor. As you know this research has took a lot of indepth discovery of each console. Even the Wii can do better, Just cut that RAM.Dr-fanboy

/facepalm

Dammit TC, I tried cutting my RAM in half, but you didn't specify whether to use an axe or a sword. Anyways, I glued it to my TV so I could haz more VRAM.

Boom, my graphics should be better now.

I was thinking of just using a GTX 590 and optimizing the graphics at 480p. TheFatPerson

Yea, let's go back to 480p in a time when 1080p displays are the standard. Great idea. Best we just go back to good old CRTs :P