Albert Penello confirms no dGPU in Xbox One. (Albert tries to clarify specs)

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Sonysexual1

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#201 Sonysexual1
Member since 2013 • 811 Posts

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]So, here are couple of points about some of the individual parts for people to consider:

18 CU's vs. 12 CU's =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CU's, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU.
Adding to that, each of our CU's is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall.
We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.
We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles.
We understand GPGPU and its importance very well. Microsoft invented Direct Compute, and have been using GPGPU in a shipping product since 2010 - it's called Kinect.
Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU.

Hopefully with some of those more specific points people will understand where we have reduced bottlenecks in the system. I'm sure this will get debated endlessly but at least you can see I'm backing up my points.

I still I believe that we get little credit for the fact that, as a SW company, the people designing our system are some of the smartest graphics engineers around they understand how to architect and balance a system for graphics performance. Each company has their strengths, and I feel that our strength is overlooked when evaluating both boxes.

Given this continued belief of a significant gap, we're working with our most senior graphics and silicon engineers to get into more depth on this topic. They will be more credible then I am, and can talk in detail about some of the benchmarking we've done and how we balanced our system.

Thanks again for letting my participate. Hope this gives people more background on my claims.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=80951633&postcount=195

 

What especially strikes me as absurd about that is his first claim about more GPU cores. The way he puts it one could be the left with the impression that less graphics cores > more graphics cores. Ughh, what?!!! If that's the case I guess if you're building a gaming PC you'd be better off with a Radeon 7770 than you would be a Radeon 7970 since a 7770 has just 10 cores to the 7970's 32, lol.

btk2k2

18 CU's vs. 12 CU's =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CU's, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU This is misleading. 50% more CUs does not = 50% more performance because there are other factors to take into account. It has nothing to do with the CPU provided the CPU is quick enough which they should be. Adding to that, each of our CU's is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall. This is BS. It is a 6% clock speed bump, of course each CU is running 6% faster but so is the whole GPU. The way he has written this is suggest that the 6% increase is cumulative for each CU which is bogus and very misleading. We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted. There will be very few cases where you can steam data from both the DDR3 and the ESRAM. The ESRAM will not be in use at all times because the DDR3 feeding it is much slower, it will help with the bandwidth and I am sure it can peak as high as the PS4 but on average sustained throughput the PS4 will come out ahead, I just do not know by how much. We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles. The PS4 CPU has not had its CPU clockspeed revealed as far as I am aware, 1.6Ghz does seem the most likely though. The PS4 also has audio chips, just no on the APU. Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU. This is misdirection. Yes it will help the CPU read GPU generated data, but the whole point of GPGPU is that the GPU does the processing and in this regard the X1 is behind the PS4. It also does not answer the question of weather the CPU can read/write directly to the GPU cache. I do not disagree that the X1 is well balanced, it is just that the PS4 is also well balanced at a higher tier of performance, the X1 is about as good as they could have made it with their initial design goals, available silicon and power budget so it is not a shit box by any means. The issue is that the PS4 had different design goals which meant they did not have to sacrifice APU space to fit in the ESRAM which enabled them to have a more powerful GPU.

You should add that the genius Cerny added tons of ACEs and modified the architecture to support fine-grain computing so that the GPU can utilize GPGPU computing without taking a hit to the graphics of the games.

The Xbox ONE, on the other hand, uses off-the-shelf GPU, so developers wanting to use GPGPU computing will have to sacrifice graphical fidelity.

Cerny is a genius. Who does Microsoft have that's on the same level?

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tormentos

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#202 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

 

PS4's audio chips aren't on the APU because Sony's engineers had common sense. Who cares about the audio? Seriously, how many debates about audio capabilities have ya seen around here? The APU is the most important part of the console. Ya should cram it with as many CPU and GPU resources as possible. That's what Sony did. MS, meanwhile, puts stuff like audio chips on there and runs out of room for ROPs and CUs. Stupid! But obviously they knew what they were doing. They had to know that crap like audio chips on the APU was going to mean less important stuff on the APU like CUs. But apparently they didn't care. They could have put the audio chips somewhere else but chose not to. This console is weak on purpose. If a weak console is what they wanted why are they trying to talk themselves out of it now?

Wickerman777

 

It actually surprice me to see MS fit the audio block inside the APU,rather than put it outside with all the room the xbox one has inside on that board it should have been quite more easy to fit that audio chip outside and actually have more room for GPU.

It was lack of direcetion what hurted MS,is the reason Mattrick was kick out,i really believed that the 3rd console curse only happen to those who won 2 generations in a row,but it has strike MS big time,after they sold so many 360's they dropped the ball.

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Wickerman777

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#203 Wickerman777
Member since 2013 • 2164 Posts

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Spartan070"] I don't care how many "TFLOPS" it has. Is it going to be a fun gaming machine? Yep, then here's my cash. You guys are way too into specs...wasn't like this prior to last gen, we were gamers then. :PSpartan070

They're charging $100 more for lesser hardware. Perhaps that's OK with you but not with me. Considering how far behind it is it shouldn't even be the same price, let alone $100 more. If it were $300 I'd be OK with it considering that PS4 will be $400. But $500 is absurd. And yes, Kinect is included but I, and plenty of others, don't even want it.

Then get a PS4.

I think that's what a lot of people will do. Even if they aren't particularly fond of the brand. MS really isn't giving them much of an alternative this time around.

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Sonysexual1

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#204 Sonysexual1
Member since 2013 • 811 Posts

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

PS4's audio chips aren't on the APU because Sony's engineers had common sense. Who cares about the audio? Seriously, how many debates about audio capabilities have ya seen around here? The APU is the most important part of the console. Ya should cram it with as many CPU and GPU resources as possible. That's what Sony did. MS, meanwhile, puts stuff like audio chips on there and runs out of room for ROPs and CUs. Stupid! But obviously they knew what they were doing. They had to know that crap like audio chips on the APU was going to mean less important stuff on the APU like CUs. But apparently they didn't care. They could have put the audio chips somewhere else but chose not to. This console is weak on purpose. If a weak console is what they wanted why are they trying to talk themselves out of it now?

tormentos

 

It actually surprice me to see MS fit the audio block inside the APU,rather than put it outside with all the room the xbox one has inside on that board it should have been quite more easy to fit that audio chip outside and actually have more room for GPU.

It was lack of direcetion what hurted MS,is the reason Mattrick was kick out,i really believed that the 3rd console curse only happen to those who won 2 generations in a row,but it has strike MS big time,after they sold so many 360's they dropped the ball.

Well, I think the audio chip is for Kinect voice recognition, not for gaming. Kinect is going to have to be running in the background 24/7 keeping track of 50+ commands at many different languages. The audio block will be used for decoding verbal commands on the fly (Microsoft stressed OS smoothness).

It's just so strange that Microsoft would invest in sound rather than graphical computing power. Kinect is the only explanation.

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tormentos

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#205 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

 

I think that's what a lot of people will do. Even if they aren't particularly fond of the brand. MS really isn't giving them much of an alternative this time around.

Wickerman777

 

Yep i am a die hard PS fan but i own a 360 since day 1,it was cheap and powerful there is no reason for me to own an xbox one.

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tormentos

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#206 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

 

Well, I think the audio chip is for Kinect voice recognition, not for gaming. Kinect is going to have to be running in the background 24/7 keeping track of 50+ commands at many different languages. The audio block will be used for decoding verbal commands on the fly (Microsoft stressed OS smoothness).

It's just so strange that Microsoft would invest in sound rather than graphical computing power. Kinect is the only explanation.

Sonysexual1

 

 

Yeah that to some one was trying to imply that Kinect has it own chip,but that is for the camera the audio is handle by the audio block,maybe it is the reason why it is inside the APU its need to be that way probably for maximun efficiency when commands are given.

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legalize82

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#207 legalize82
Member since 2013 • 2293 Posts
......and lemmings brake out in tears
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Wickerman777

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#208 Wickerman777
Member since 2013 • 2164 Posts

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

 

PS4's audio chips aren't on the APU because Sony's engineers had common sense. Who cares about the audio? Seriously, how many debates about audio capabilities have ya seen around here? The APU is the most important part of the console. Ya should cram it with as many CPU and GPU resources as possible. That's what Sony did. MS, meanwhile, puts stuff like audio chips on there and runs out of room for ROPs and CUs. Stupid! But obviously they knew what they were doing. They had to know that crap like audio chips on the APU was going to mean less important stuff on the APU like CUs. But apparently they didn't care. They could have put the audio chips somewhere else but chose not to. This console is weak on purpose. If a weak console is what they wanted why are they trying to talk themselves out of it now?

Sonysexual1

 

It actually surprice me to see MS fit the audio block inside the APU,rather than put it outside with all the room the xbox one has inside on that board it should have been quite more easy to fit that audio chip outside and actually have more room for GPU.

It was lack of direcetion what hurted MS,is the reason Mattrick was kick out,i really believed that the 3rd console curse only happen to those who won 2 generations in a row,but it has strike MS big time,after they sold so many 360's they dropped the ball.

Well, I think the audio chip is for Kinect voice recognition, not for gaming. Kinect is going to have to be running in the background 24/7 keeping track of 50+ commands at many different languages. The audio block will be used for decoding verbal commands on the fly (Microsoft stressed OS smoothness).

It's just so strange that Microsoft would invest in sound rather than graphical computing power. Kinect is the only explanation.

Maybe that's why. Power gimped for Kinect ... good grief. :(

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Tighaman

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#210 Tighaman
Member since 2006 • 1038 Posts

[QUOTE="Sonysexual1"]

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

 

It actually surprice me to see MS fit the audio block inside the APU,rather than put it outside with all the room the xbox one has inside on that board it should have been quite more easy to fit that audio chip outside and actually have more room for GPU.

It was lack of direcetion what hurted MS,is the reason Mattrick was kick out,i really believed that the 3rd console curse only happen to those who won 2 generations in a row,but it has strike MS big time,after they sold so many 360's they dropped the ball.

Wickerman777

Well, I think the audio chip is for Kinect voice recognition, not for gaming. Kinect is going to have to be running in the background 24/7 keeping track of 50+ commands at many different languages. The audio block will be used for decoding verbal commands on the fly (Microsoft stressed OS smoothness).

It's just so strange that Microsoft would invest in sound rather than graphical computing power. Kinect is the only explanation.

Maybe that's why. Power gimped for Kinect ... good grief. :(

im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.
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XBOunity

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#211 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

Some major major tears and conspiracy that Microsoft is paying off devs to keep multiplats in parity.       I cannot wait for the DC.   

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Wickerman777

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#212 Wickerman777
Member since 2013 • 2164 Posts

Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the waterTighaman

Umm, where? If you're talking about GPUs with Volcanic Islands architecture in them those aren't on the market yet. And even if they were it wouldn't matter cuz they're a different architecture. Xbox One and PS4, however, use Southern Islands tech.

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stereointegrity

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#213 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts
[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Sonysexual1"]

Well, I think the audio chip is for Kinect voice recognition, not for gaming. Kinect is going to have to be running in the background 24/7 keeping track of 50+ commands at many different languages. The audio block will be used for decoding verbal commands on the fly (Microsoft stressed OS smoothness).

It's just so strange that Microsoft would invest in sound rather than graphical computing power. Kinect is the only explanation.

Tighaman

Maybe that's why. Power gimped for Kinect ... good grief. :(

im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.

You have no clue Wtf you are talking about
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XBOunity

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#214 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

[QUOTE="Tighaman"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

Maybe that's why. Power gimped for Kinect ... good grief. :(

stereointegrity

im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.

You have no clue Wtf you are talking about

at least he doesnt make up things like you..   7 gigs of ram for gaming, no hot for os usage for suspend mode for games on PS4, 100 percent of power dedicated to games at all times,     no cores reserved as you dispute the Killzone dev diary saying that leadbetter is a rabid xbox fanboy, lol, yet you think you are objective.     such a fanboy, keep on making things up tormentos.

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Tighaman

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#215 Tighaman
Member since 2006 • 1038 Posts

[QUOTE="Tighaman"]Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the waterWickerman777

Umm, where? If you're talking about GPUs with Volcanic Islands architecture in them those aren't on the market yet. And even if they were it wouldn't matter cuz they're a different architecture. Xbox One and PS4, however, use Southern Islands tech.

stop saying they are the same architecture they are not both have apus but it ends there sony buys products from AMD MS is a partner R&D stands for research and developement why would you spend 3 billion on RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT on tech thats already being used I know you all are smarter than that hopefully we dont need r&d for.that.
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Tighaman

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#216 Tighaman
Member since 2006 • 1038 Posts
[QUOTE="Tighaman"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

Maybe that's why. Power gimped for Kinect ... good grief. :(

stereointegrity
im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.

You have no clue Wtf you are talking about

I have enough sense to know that the differences between 3 gens of getting of getting constantly getting lied to than getting better everytime they dropped a console sony told us THIS GEN THAT THEIR GPU WAS 1.8TFs they are doing the same thing keep lying to yourself.
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stereointegrity

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#217 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"][QUOTE="Tighaman"]im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.XBOunity

You have no clue Wtf you are talking about

at least he doesnt make up things like you..   7 gigs of ram for gaming, no hot for os usage for suspend mode for games on PS4, 100 percent of power dedicated to games at all times,     no cores reserved as you dispute the Killzone dev diary saying that leadbetter is a rabid xbox fanboy, lol, yet you think you are objective.     such a fanboy, keep on making things up tormentos.

what? I never said any of that shit unity
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NEWMAHAY

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#218 NEWMAHAY
Member since 2012 • 3824 Posts
[QUOTE="XBOunity"]

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"] You have no clue Wtf you are talking about stereointegrity

at least he doesnt make up things like you..   7 gigs of ram for gaming, no hot for os usage for suspend mode for games on PS4, 100 percent of power dedicated to games at all times,     no cores reserved as you dispute the Killzone dev diary saying that leadbetter is a rabid xbox fanboy, lol, yet you think you are objective.     such a fanboy, keep on making things up tormentos.

what? I never said any of that shit unity

I love how he calling someone a fanboy. How many accounts has Unity been ban from?
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XBOunity

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#219 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

[QUOTE="XBOunity"]

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"] You have no clue Wtf you are talking about stereointegrity

at least he doesnt make up things like you..   7 gigs of ram for gaming, no hot for os usage for suspend mode for games on PS4, 100 percent of power dedicated to games at all times,     no cores reserved as you dispute the Killzone dev diary saying that leadbetter is a rabid xbox fanboy, lol, yet you think you are objective.     such a fanboy, keep on making things up tormentos.

what? I never said any of that shit unity

i thought you were tormentos.   yes you arent like a tormentos.   sorry my bad, got it mixed up, you are likeable.

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XBOunity

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#220 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

[QUOTE="stereointegrity"][QUOTE="XBOunity"]

at least he doesnt make up things like you..   7 gigs of ram for gaming, no hot for os usage for suspend mode for games on PS4, 100 percent of power dedicated to games at all times,     no cores reserved as you dispute the Killzone dev diary saying that leadbetter is a rabid xbox fanboy, lol, yet you think you are objective.     such a fanboy, keep on making things up tormentos.

NEWMAHAY

what? I never said any of that shit unity

I love how he calling someone a fanboy. How many accounts has Unity been ban from?

How many accounts have I been banned from?   what?   are you drinking?

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Mr-Kutaragi

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#221 Mr-Kutaragi
Member since 2013 • 2466 Posts
MS confirms xbox inferior. TLHBO.
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NEWMAHAY

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#222 NEWMAHAY
Member since 2012 • 3824 Posts

[QUOTE="NEWMAHAY"][QUOTE="stereointegrity"]what? I never said any of that shit unity XBOunity

I love how he calling someone a fanboy. How many accounts has Unity been ban from?

How many accounts have I been banned from?   what?   are you drinking?

I lol'd. I am serious, how many accounts has it been? 4? 5?

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tormentos

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#223 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.Tighaman

 

I am going to tell you this again,GDDr5 need to be solder to the PCB it can't be made yet into Dimm forms so basically that is what has stop GDDR5 from taking over on your PC.

 

The PS4 GPU is strong than the 7850 and yes 32 ROP is need it when you go for higher resolutions than 1080p or 3D,Aces is what allow GCN to execute out of order instruction,since GCN is an in order GPU,more ACES more out of order executions,the PS4 GPU is actually more custom to take advantage of compute than the 7950 regarless of the 7950 having more power,which mean nothing because the damn xbox one doesn't have a damn 7950 it has a gimped 7790 with 2 CU less and lower clock speed.

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dramaybaz

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#224 dramaybaz
Member since 2005 • 6020 Posts
Ah Cerny fan girls around here.
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tormentos

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#225 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

stop saying they are the same architecture they are not both have apus but it ends there sony buys products from AMD MS is a partner R&D stands for research and developement why would you spend 3 billion on RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT on tech thats already being used I know you all are smarter than that hopefully we dont need r&d for.that. Tighaman

 

The AMD Jaguar based APU that is in the PlayStation 4 is the most powerful such processor to date, according to AMD. John Taylor, head of marketing for the chipmaker said that the proprietary blend between Sony and AMD resulted in the the most powerful APU we have built to date.

 

http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/ps4-processor-powerful-amd/

 

Keep the hopes alive dude the PS4 APU is by far the strongest APU AMD has make to date,so yeah that kill your whole argument.

Just like they spended 100 million to ruin the xbox one controller,that 3 billion probably cover manufacturing of those chips for quite some time.

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Sonysexual1

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#226 Sonysexual1
Member since 2013 • 811 Posts

[QUOTE="Tighaman"]im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.tormentos

 

I am going to tell you this again,GDDr5 need to be solder to the PCB it can't be made yet into Dimm forms so basically that is what has stop GDDR5 from taking over on your PC.

 

The PS4 GPU is strong than the 7850 and yes 32 ROP is need it when you go for higher resolutions than 1080p or 3D,Aces is what allow GCN to execute out of order instruction,since GCN is an in order GPU,more ACES more out of order executions,the PS4 GPU is actually more custom to take advantage of compute than the 7950 regarless of the 7950 having more power,which mean nothing because the damn xbox one doesn't have a damn 7950 it has a gimped 7790 with 2 CU less and lower clock speed.

Furthermore, even if GDDR5 is able to be used as system RAM, no manufacturer is going to bother, since CPUs require really low bandwidth and DDR3's bandwidth is sufficient to feed modern-day CPUs quite well. There's no point in putting a more expensive GDDR5 when most of its bandwidth would't even be utilized.

CPUs right now are several generations behind GPUs in terms of power, so they're not able to utilize high amounts of bandwidth. To get an idea, PS4's CPU can utilize just 20 GB/s. It's the GPU that needs to have high bandwidth.

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Sonysexual1

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#227 Sonysexual1
Member since 2013 • 811 Posts

[QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

[QUOTE="Sonysexual1"]

Well, I think the audio chip is for Kinect voice recognition, not for gaming. Kinect is going to have to be running in the background 24/7 keeping track of 50+ commands at many different languages. The audio block will be used for decoding verbal commands on the fly (Microsoft stressed OS smoothness).

It's just so strange that Microsoft would invest in sound rather than graphical computing power. Kinect is the only explanation.

Tighaman

Maybe that's why. Power gimped for Kinect ... good grief. :(

im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.

The point of the large amounts of ACEs is to compensate for the piss poor CPU in the PS4. The fine-grain computing architecture of the PS4's GPU allows large amounts of GPGPU computing with no hits to the graphical side of the GPU.

The Xbox ONE, on the other hand, doesn't have this. If the Xbox ONE wants to do GPGPU computing, not only will the effects be negligible, graphical grunt needs to be taken away from the GPU. Combine that with its piss poor CPU and it's a recipe for bottlenecks.

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Tighaman

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#228 Tighaman
Member since 2006 • 1038 Posts

[QUOTE="Tighaman"]stop saying they are the same architecture they are not both have apus but it ends there sony buys products from AMD MS is a partner R&D stands for research and developement why would you spend 3 billion on RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT on tech thats already being used I know you all are smarter than that hopefully we dont need r&d for.that. tormentos

 

The AMD Jaguar based APU that is in the PlayStation 4 is the most powerful such processor to date, according to AMD. John Taylor, head of marketing for the chipmaker said that the proprietary blend between Sony and AMD resulted in the the most powerful APU we have built to date.

 

http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/ps4-processor-powerful-amd/

 

Keep the hopes alive dude the PS4 APU is by far the strongest APU AMD has make to date,so yeah that kill your whole argument.

Just like they spended 100 million to ruin the xbox one controller,that 3 billion probably cover manufacturing of those chips for quite some time.

that statement was way back in before the x1 was introduced lol and x1 wasnt just AMD design intel ibm nvidia and amd made x1 and before you say this is bullshit look at what each of them companys are doing with chip sizes, embedded ram, and move engines and tell me im bullshitting. AND AGAIN you just looking at tflops and making your conclusions but LIKE I SAID BEFORE AMD HAS GPUs COMING OUT IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH GPUs with 16rops and 12 cu and 2 aces that destroy the ps4 just look at AMD next line of gpus and tell me besides the tflops that they are not.inline with the x1 compared to the ps4 and give me details.
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Cali3350

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#229 Cali3350
Member since 2003 • 16134 Posts

[QUOTE="Tighaman"][QUOTE="Wickerman777"]

Maybe that's why. Power gimped for Kinect ... good grief. :(

Sonysexual1

im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.

The point of the large amounts of ACEs is to compensate for the piss poor CPU in the PS4. The fine-grain computing architecture of the PS4's GPU allows large amounts of GPGPU computing with no hits to the graphical side of the GPU.

The Xbox ONE, on the other hand, doesn't have this. If the Xbox ONE wants to do GPGPU computing, not only will the effects be negligible, graphical grunt needs to be taken away from the GPU. Combine that with its piss poor CPU and it's a recipe for bottlenecks.

 

Not everything can be put on GPGPU.  Anything that has a lot of branching (AI one good example) or isnt massively parralel wont be able to just be put on the PS4's CU's.  The CU's are powerful but theres a very good reason the CPU is still the most important part of a computer.  Admittedly for games the CU's will have an easier time being fulfilled (physics is a GREAT example of something that can use the CU's) but I really would just take the PS4's GPGPU compute as the end all of an argument.  Its a very nice feature, not a console winning feature.  

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tormentos

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#230 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

that statement was way back in before the x1 was introduced lol and x1 wasnt just AMD design intel ibm nvidia and amd made x1 and before you say this is bullshit look at what each of them companys are doing with chip sizes, embedded ram, and move engines and tell me im bullshitting. AND AGAIN you just looking at tflops and making your conclusions but LIKE I SAID BEFORE AMD HAS GPUs COMING OUT IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH GPUs with 16rops and 12 cu and 2 aces that destroy the ps4 just look at AMD next line of gpus and tell me besides the tflops that they are not.inline with the x1 compared to the ps4 and give me details. Tighaman

 

 

hahahaha sush denial the xbox APU has been on development even longer than the PS4 one,so yeah when this was on February of this year the xbox one APU was more than done.

So yeah find another excuse.

 

Dude that is Volcanic island which in no shape or form represent the xbox one GPU,the xbox one uses a Bonaire GPU period and is under power sorry about your hopes and dreams..:lol:

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tormentos

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#231 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

 

 

Not everything can be put on GPGPU.  Anything that has a lot of branching (AI one good example) or isnt massively parralel wont be able to just be put on the PS4's CU's.  The CU's are powerful but theres a very good reason the CPU is still the most important part of a computer.  Admittedly for games the CU's will have an easier time being fulfilled (physics is a GREAT example of something that can use the CU's) but I really would just take the PS4's GPGPU compute as the end all of an argument.  Its a very nice feature, not a console winning feature.  

Cali3350

 

But several things can be,and on xbox one they will hurt the graphics because the xbox one is not design to use compute at the same time as graphics.

Anything done on compute on the PS4 GPU will have to be done on CPU which will hur the CPU,or on GPU which will hurt the graphics.

The 9% CPU clock boost of the xbox one is basically nothing when the xbox one has higher system resources require to run the OS and system.

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btk2k2

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#232 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
[QUOTE="Tighaman"]im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 specs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.

You are a dipshit. 1) GDDR5 and DDR3 have practically the same memory latency from ACT to ACT when measured in nano seconds. (around 40ns) ACT to ACT means ready state to ready state so it is the whole cycle of firing up the transistors, doing your operation and then going back to ready again. This data comes from Hynix who manufacture memory modules, this is going to apply to all the memory module manufacturer. 2) Sure, the low bandwidth of the 7850 vs the 7970 means that they are not fully utilised. The PS4 (and 7850) is still capable of producing higher fillrate numbers than the X1 which is going to give it an advantage. 3) The ACE units increase overall utilisation of each CU. The extended queue is to make it easier for developers to get bits of compute code into the CUs where the rendering is not using all of the available SPs. It will make it more efficient allowing it to get closer to its theoretical peak. and finally, show me an AMD GCN card with 12CUs and 16 ROPs that beats the 7850. Show me with a link to a review website that shows this to be true.
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X_CAPCOM_X

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#233 X_CAPCOM_X
Member since 2004 • 9625 Posts

[QUOTE="drakekratos"]LOL... look at my sigtimbers_WSU
Yep. Between your sig, avatar, and name it is pretty clear you are to be ignored at all cost. I.m sure you here that a lot.



Why his avatar and name? He likes those games; is that a bad thing?

Why do you have so much hate for people who play different video games than you?  


Additionally, the quote in his sig is true: the XB1 comes bundled with Kinect, making it more expensive.

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btk2k2

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#234 btk2k2
Member since 2003 • 440 Posts
The point of the large amounts of ACEs is to compensate for the piss poor CPU in the PS4. The fine-grain computing architecture of the PS4's GPU allows large amounts of GPGPU computing with no hits to the graphical side of the GPU.

The Xbox ONE, on the other hand, doesn't have this. If the Xbox ONE wants to do GPGPU computing, not only will the effects be negligible, graphical grunt needs to be taken away from the GPU. Combine that with its piss poor CPU and it's a recipe for bottlenecks.

Sonysexual1
The CPU in the X1 or the PS4 is not piss poor. They are pretty decent CPUs when you take into account their power envelope and are plenty good enough for the consoles. The point of extra ACE units is to improve the GPU utilisation, if your rendering is using up 80% of the GPU resources then you have 20% idling, you could do some GPGPU physics with that 20% which frees up the CPU to do more AI work, or to enable more interactive physics or anything else the devs to think of to improve the overall game experience. It is also not true that graphical grunt will be taken away when the X1 does GPU compute tasks, it can work in the same way as the PS4 it is just more limited because you have a smaller queue for your compute jobs. That means more management from the devs and less opportunity to take advantage of it.
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Tighaman

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#235 Tighaman
Member since 2006 • 1038 Posts
[QUOTE="btk2k2"][QUOTE="Tighaman"]im going to say it again for torm and the rest of you fanboys its a reason that the greatest minds in gaming business never thought to put gddr5 as system ram its not efficient for the cpu especially if the cpu is weak. 7850 doesnt use all 32 rops please read why on your own All them ACEs dont mean anything 7950 has only two ACEs and blow the gpu in the ps4 away. And back to battlefield 4 its been two demos for that game ps4 specs and x1 sfepecs all the multiplatform game I remember used to run the same demos for the same game but not this time not this gen why? Theres plenty of NEW AMD GPUs if you looked at just specs have less 12 cu and 16 rops and will blow that 7850 out the water with MS you always look ahead and never in the past.

You are a dipshit. 1) GDDR5 and DDR3 have practically the same memory latency from ACT to ACT when measured in nano seconds. (around 40ns) ACT to ACT means ready state to ready state so it is the whole cycle of firing up the transistors, doing your operation and then going back to ready again. This data comes from Hynix who manufacture memory modules, this is going to apply to all the memory module manufacturer. 2) Sure, the low bandwidth of the 7850 vs the 7970 means that they are not fully utilised. The PS4 (and 7850) is still capable of producing higher fillrate numbers than the X1 which is going to give it an advantage. 3) The ACE units increase overall utilisation of each CU. The extended queue is to make it easier for developers to get bits of compute code into the CUs where the rendering is not using all of the available SPs. It will make it more efficient allowing it to get closer to its theoretical peak. and finally, show me an AMD GCN card with 12CUs and 16 ROPs that beats the 7850. Show me with a link to a review website that shows this to be true.

you just seen numbers and start talking I know what I see, read, hear and experience. This the last time I will have any discussion on power but all will be seen soon no matter who comes on these forums its gonna be naysayers.
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tormentos

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#236 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33793 Posts

you just seen numbers and start talking I know what I see, read, hear and experience. This the last time I will have any discussion on power but all will be seen soon no matter who comes on these forums its gonna be naysayers.Tighaman

 

I hope you don't do like certain lemming who hided for days on end,because his prediction failed..:lol: