Alpha Protocol is underrated and deserves some more praise. GS scored this wrong

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"] hey, are we talking about RPG's here or whatIronBass

[QUOTE="Espada12"]ME 2 doesn't have high quality roleplaying though.. don't see anyone hating on that...IronBass

That's because most people think ME2 has high quality roleplaying. Going by the Western definiton of roleplaying, that is.

What are tryng to prove??LookAnDrolL

That expecting quality shooting from a game that has heavy TPS elements it's not ridiculous, as you stated.

Even if you call it "Action RPG", the action part (in this case, the "action" takes the form of a TPS) it's expected to be solid.

SoI think I already proved what I wanted to prove. :)

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"]The fact that the shooting and such has been bashed doesn't bother me at all. The gameplay has been criticized by people who expect their RPGs to play like something closer to Gears of War.IronBass

I don't think anyone expect a RPG to be played like Gears of War.

But froma TPS/RPG hybrid like Alpha Protocol and Mass Effect 2 high quality shooting is to be expected.

Something that Apha Protocol (from what I've played) does not have.

no inventory and lacking of character development say otherwise. ME2 is more of a TPS with some rpg lite elements .... the first ME was more rpg.. of course I am just going on what i read about me2 as I haven't played it yet (waiting for steam sale..if it was more rpg i would of bought it by now)Midnightshade29

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"]What are tryng to prove??IronBass

Selective Reading FTW! why don't you read all the post, matey.LookAnDrolL

AP have quality shooting if you build your character in the right way. Whats your build?? LookAnDrolL

Rented the 360 version, going to buy the PS3 version after Peace Walker. I do think the controls are very clunky, the graphics are bit underwhelming, and that there's a few glitches I've run into. I pretty much agree on all the complaints that the GS review, as well as other reviews had to say on it. Yet beyond all that, it's really awesome. The dialogue can be pretty funny at times and there's a few characters that I've grown to like (Steven heck, Mina Tang). I do think it should be critiqued for what was wrong with the game but it's nothing I would ever tell someone to stay away from. Rent it or buy it on sale but don't disregard it entirely.

The conversations are a lot of fun with the timer. Normally in Mass Effect I get a lot of time to think about what I want to say, which is great if you're looking to perfecting a conversation with someone. Yet I think by only giving what attitude you're giving across to another person without an idea of what you're about to say, you'll be surprised of what comes out of Michael's mouth. Not to say you can't predict how people are going to take and not take with the dossiers (and common sense) but it's still a nice twist on the whole system.

There's so much that I really enjoy from AP from the hectic lock picking/hacking mini-games to it's button mashing kung-fu takedowns. It's worth a try.

Dear lord, can we just acknowledge that some people like the game and some people think it sucks? Jeez, everyone has a different opinion.:?

I think GS nailed it on the head.

The lack of polish really hurts the game in some areas.

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"]Selective Reading FTW! why don't you read all the post, matey.IronBass

AP have quality shooting if you build your character in the right way. Whats your build?? LookAnDrolL

You can never score a game wrong. You can only justify your score unsatisfactorily.

Like you said, the game is unpolished. Maybe it's all right to gloss over that in an off-the-cuff recommendation based on your personal enjoyment, but this is a review. It's written for people who want to hear everything, not just the good parts. There are hundreds of people who will tell you "Alpha Protocol's sick, dawg! You'll love it if you like RPGs!" but some people want a more balanced, critical analysis, and for them there's reviews like Kevin's. It's perfectly fine if you enjoy the game and want people to try it despite its flaws, but are you really going to criticize a critic for being critical?

I am willing to bet 99% of the people defending this game are pc gamers.:roll: For people that act like they have a higher standard of gaming they sure do praise some crappy games.

Advid-Gamer

You can never score a game wrong. You can only justify your score unsatisfactorily.

Like you said, the game is unpolished. Maybe it's all right to gloss over that in an off-the-cuff recommendation based on your personal enjoyment, but this is a review. It's written for people who want to hear everything, not just the good parts. There are hundreds of people who will tell you "Alpha Protocol's sick, dawg! You'll love it if you like RPGs!" but some people want a more balanced, critical analysis, and for them there's reviews like Kevin's. It's perfectly fine if you enjoy the game and want people to try it despite its flaws, but are you really going to criticize a critic for being critical?

Cherokee_Jack

It would be impossible for you to be any more right in that post.

It would be impossible for you to be any more right in that post.GreySeal9

You can never score a game wrong. You can only justify your score unsatisfactorily.

Like you said, the game is unpolished. Maybe it's all right to gloss over that in an off-the-cuff recommendation based on your personal enjoyment, but this is a review. It's written for people who want to hear everything, not just the good parts. There are hundreds of people who will tell you "Alpha Protocol's sick, dawg! You'll love it if you like RPGs!" but some people want a more balanced, critical analysis, and for them there's reviews like Kevin's. It's perfectly fine if you enjoy the game and want people to try it despite its flaws, but are you really going to criticize a critic for being critical?

Cherokee_Jack

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

You can never score a game wrong. You can only justify your score unsatisfactorily.

Like you said, the game is unpolished. Maybe it's all right to gloss over that in an off-the-cuff recommendation based on your personal enjoyment, but this is a review. It's written for people who want to hear everything, not just the good parts. There are hundreds of people who will tell you "Alpha Protocol's sick, dawg! You'll love it if you like RPGs!" but some people want a more balanced, critical analysis, and for them there's reviews like Kevin's. It's perfectly fine if you enjoy the game and want people to try it despite its flaws, but are you really going to criticize a critic for being critical?

LookAnDrolL

Then he must have thought they were more prominent in Alpha Protocol and got in the way of the gameplay more. Judging from the game's reception elsewhere, it seems that a lot of people did.

Again, you're faulting him for calling out the game's flaws because you weren't bothered by them, as if he denied that anyone could ever have fun playing it....he rated it a 6, for God's sake. Not a 1.

While I had fun with it, the game has some serious problems and it isn't just the numerous technical bugs, there are some serious game design flaws. One such problem is they tried to be more Metal Gear and less James Bond without any kind of explanation. There is one boss fight in the game that is exhibit A on why I hate them so much. Apparently cocaine makes you super fast and semi invincible. It also makes you flameproof. WTF? (see russian kingpin Brayko's boss battle) I was having fun until I got to that dude. Not only is the fight NOT fun, it's incredibly stupid. There is no indication that Brayko is anything but a normal human. I really hate crap like that. I completely takes me out of the game.

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"][QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

You can never score a game wrong. You can only justify your score unsatisfactorily.

Like you said, the game is unpolished. Maybe it's all right to gloss over that in an off-the-cuff recommendation based on your personal enjoyment, but this is a review. It's written for people who want to hear everything, not just the good parts. There are hundreds of people who will tell you "Alpha Protocol's sick, dawg! You'll love it if you like RPGs!" but some people want a more balanced, critical analysis, and for them there's reviews like Kevin's. It's perfectly fine if you enjoy the game and want people to try it despite its flaws, but are you really going to criticize a critic for being critical?

Cherokee_Jack

Then he must have thought they were more prominent in Alpha Protocol and got in the way of the gameplay more. Judging from the game's reception elsewhere, it seems that a lot of people did.

Again, you're faulting him for calling out the game's flaws because you weren't bothered by them, as if he denied that anyone could ever have fun playing it....he rated it a 6, for God's sake. Not a 1.

Fair enough, IMO AP redeeming features weight a lot more than its issues, that's why I believe this is a solid 7.0 - 8.0 game. However, I can understand the game not getting an 8.0 for technical problems.

Its just that the word "clumsy gameplay" just evokes a cautious feeling, granted on how subjective that term can be. Especially if you consider how the setting and the way you build your character in the game has a LOT of weight on how your gameplay experience will be.

Both Mass Effect games had the same technical issues. Were this issues mentioned on the same level of criticism that on AP review. Hardly. LookAnDrolL

The name Alpha Protocol fits. It plays and looks like an Alpha version of an unfinished game.The 6.0 is fair.

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"] Balanced analysis? Well i played AP 3 times already and I willing to say that Kevin review was extremely over exaggerated. The games has its problems. Some of the same problems that similar games had and weren't turned down because of them. Why?. How this selective criticism works??. FO3 have a lot of bugs framerate problems, ai problems, etc. Both Mass Effect games had the same technical issues. Were this issues mentioned on the same level of criticism that on AP review. Hardly. LookAnDrolL

Then he must have thought they were more prominent in Alpha Protocol and got in the way of the gameplay more. Judging from the game's reception elsewhere, it seems that a lot of people did.

Again, you're faulting him for calling out the game's flaws because you weren't bothered by them, as if he denied that anyone could ever have fun playing it....he rated it a 6, for God's sake. Not a 1.

Fair enough, IMO AP redeeming features weight a lot more than its issues, that's why I believe this is a solid 7.0 - 8.0 game. However, I can understand the game not getting an 8.0 for technical problems.

Its just that the word "clumsy gameplay" just evokes a cautious feeling, granted on how subjective that term can be. Especially if you consider how the setting and the way you build your character in the game has a LOT of weight on how your gameplay experience will be.

One thing that might make you feel better about the review is that it is worded in such a way that people who want the sort of depth that AP provides will probably check it out even if the score is a 6.0. Kevin V even says in the review that certain gamers will really dig it. I think the people that are drawn towards games like AP will know who they are when they read that part of the review.

While I had fun with it, the game has some serious problems and it isn't just the numerous technical bugs, there are some serious game design flaws. One such problem is they tried to be more Metal Gear and less James Bond without any kind of explanation. I really hate crap like that. I completely takes me out of the game.

heretrix

Haha, I thought that fight was really out of place myself, didn't care for it much, but at least the music fit the mood! lol

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"]

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

Then he must have thought they were more prominent in Alpha Protocol and got in the way of the gameplay more. Judging from the game's reception elsewhere, it seems that a lot of people did.

Again, you're faulting him for calling out the game's flaws because you weren't bothered by them, as if he denied that anyone could ever have fun playing it....he rated it a 6, for God's sake. Not a 1.

GreySeal9

Fair enough, IMO AP redeeming features weight a lot more than its issues, that's why I believe this is a solid 7.0 - 8.0 game. However, I can understand the game not getting an 8.0 for technical problems.

Its just that the word "clumsy gameplay" just evokes a cautious feeling, granted on how subjective that term can be. Especially if you consider how the setting and the way you build your character in the game has a LOT of weight on how your gameplay experience will be.

One thing that might make you feel better about the review is that it is worded in such a way that people who want the sort of depth that AP provides will probably check it out even if the score is a 6.0. Kevin V even says in the review that certain gamers will really dig it. I think the people that are drawn towards games like AP will know who they are when they read that part of the review.

Yeah, I might be that kind of gamer myself...I can roll with a broken WRPG just fine.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

While I had fun with it, the game has some serious problems and it isn't just the numerous technical bugs, there are some serious game design flaws. One such problem is they tried to be more Metal Gear and less James Bond without any kind of explanation. I really hate crap like that. I completely takes me out of the game.

Espada12

Haha, I thought that fight was really out of place myself, didn't care for it much, but at least the music fit the mood! lol

I feel that GS's review were fair. I played through and did enjoy the game. However with the exception of one or two elements the game is consistently sub-par when compared to other RPG-Hybrids out there.

As mentioned, the combat is really poorly realized. I don't get the argument that this should somehow be ignored because it's an RPG. It's a hybrid game; you spend more than half the game playing an FPS. If you're going to add an action element to your game, you should make sure that the action element is well executed fun and engaging. If you cannot (or wont) do that, dont add the action element. Calling it an RPG is not a valid excuse.

It's true that AP does a really good job of providing consequences for your choices, in my opinion it's the one shining element in the game. The RPG mechanics (by which I mean the leveling system, the skills, the stats and the customizability of your character) is no more advanced than ME2. Sure you can do more to customize your equipment but on the flip side you get none of the choices ME2 provides when it comes to customizing other characters and picking the right characters in a way that compliments your skills.

In addition to that, AP lacks a couple of elements that are normally considered to be central to the genre. It does not offer an environment that can be explored; there are pretty much no side missions. You pick linear combat missions where you kill or sneak your way from A to B. You then return to your apartment where you go through a couple of discussions (You generally don't pick who you want to talk to). You then pick one of three or so new linear combat missions.

The combat missions are mediocre at best, the dialogs are really good.

Overall, I though GS's review was fair, however if you enjoy games like this (KotoR, Mass Effect, Deus Ex and so on), it's still worth giving a shot. I'd recommend renting it if you can or waiting for it to go on sale. But if you like RPG hybrids it's worth taking for a spin just be ready for a lot of annoyances and bad mechanics in between the really good parts.

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"]Both Mass Effect games had the same technical issues. Were this issues mentioned on the same level of criticism that on AP review. Hardly. heretrix

The name Alpha Protocol fits. It plays and looks like an Alpha version of an unfinished game.The 6.0 is fair.

So far where im up to the game is a solid 7-7.5. It just lack polish. Its like they have a good game,but didint spit shine it to be really ready. Though I have ran into games that was a tiny bit worse in the bug and tec spots and still got uber high scores ala fallout 3 where the game actually crashes.

Its a great game just lacking polish.

The choices you make and how they impact the game are some of the best ive seen in a RPG. Wearing different hats, hairstyles and glasses can even give different dialogue with some characters and its all fitting to the theme. What other RPG does that?

I maxed out martial arts, toughness and pistols, i was a walking tank that would just kick the hell out of everything in its way with not an once of stealth, and i loved it!

Snagal123

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"]It was an analogy. We could say the same thing about FO3. IronBass

I'm looking into it. It looks very cool. You playing it on the PC?

If I can land this job I'm applying for I'll probably get it. As of now I'm just playing my backlog.

I'm looking into it. It looks very cool. You playing it on the PC?

If I can land this job I'm applying for I'll probably get it. As of now I'm just playing my backlog.

treedoor

Its an amazing game to me personally.

9/10 witha n amazing story, the best use of decision making ever (your choices realy effect the story alot) and fun gameplay.

It doesnt have the best graphics/animations and has some AI issues, but man is it fun!
Very very very very very underrated rpg.

Alpha Protocl is tied with RDR and Mass Effect2 for me as the GOTy for 2010 so far.

[QUOTE="treedoor"]

I'm looking into it. It looks very cool. You playing it on the PC?

If I can land this job I'm applying for I'll probably get it. As of now I'm just playing my backlog.

Midnightshade29

I haven't played it yet, but it sounds like a game I'd really like. Gamespot massively underrated Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, and it sounds like this is another one of those cases.Rhazakna

http://free-pc-guides.com/games/difference-of-opinions-alpha-protocol-eu-vs-us-reviews-whos-right-and-whos-wrong-01928

makes you think

ironman388

Good read there.

I'll be picking this up when there's a price drop. Most of the problems seem like they can be overcome with a bit of patience.

[QUOTE="Midnightshade29"][QUOTE="treedoor"]

I'm looking into it. It looks very cool. You playing it on the PC?

If I can land this job I'm applying for I'll probably get it. As of now I'm just playing my backlog.

jasonharris48

^ Cool thanks

I agree. Gamespot missed the mark here. The game has some issues (some of the walking animations look funny, cover can get a little odd sometimes, some levels look worse than others), but nothing that deserves a 6. Games like Fallout 3 had much more (and worse) problems than this game does, yet it scored high as hell because those reviewers looked past many of those flaws, and just enjoyed the gameplay. Hell even Read Dead Redemption, probably the best open-world game I've ever played, had bugs up the ***, MUCH more so than AP (and much more game-breaking), but it scored high.

I think what could have brought it down was that the reviewer didn't like the story much. Personally I think it's fun and engaging- not nearly up to Mass Effect quality, but it works well with it's goal of being an espionage experience. I'm pretty sure most of the European reviews agree with me there. Also the shooting (kind of like the masterpiece Deus Ex) is very closely tied to your rank. If you think the shooting sucks, it's just because your a low level with whatever gun you're using.

[QUOTE="IronBass"][QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"] hey, are we talking about RPG's here or whatLookAnDrolL

I see what you're saying and completely agree. The game is an RPG, and as an RPG, the characters performance is based off the characters stats and equipment. It doesn't matter if the gameplay resembles a TPS, it is not a TPS. What would be the point of leveling up your character if you already have pin point accuracy with every weapon? If you look at ME1, if your character did not have the skills to wield an assault rifle, you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with one. Same with any of the weapons. I can see how people will be turned off by this expecting it to play like Gears, but they should know what the game actually is and then they won't be so dissapointed. I'm sure the game has its share of problems, which is why its being scored lower. But it shouldn't be docked for its shooting accuracy when that accuracy is based off stats, like any true RPG.

Like the one guy in this thread said, he upgraded the stats that catered to his style of play and he was a juggernaut.

[QUOTE="LookAnDrolL"] AP have quality shooting if you build your character in the right way. Whats your build?? IronBass

I actually agree with LookAnDrolL. From what I've heard of AP, I haven't yet played it, but I plan on buying when I get the cash, it's more heavy on RPG elements than on TPS elements. And in RPG you play your character, and if your character doesn't know which end of a pistol is the dangerous one, you can't expect him to hit anything with the pistol. It's really simple and I don't have any problems with it. I'm not expecting Gears or War.

I haven't played it yet, but it sounds like a game I'd really like. Gamespot massively underrated Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, and it sounds like this is another one of those cases.Rhazakna

Vampie the masquerade is overrated to hell.

A game that's says RPG on the box should have and will have IF and WHEN. If you want a action game, play an action game. Action RPG != Shooter with dialogue LookAnDrolL

Because its not a shooter. Midnightshade29