eSport =/= Sports
Hence the "e"
Apparantly Destructoid Thinks gaming cant be a sport.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
People get it through your heads VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT A SPORT, PERIOD.
The__Havoc
Part 3 of the definition of sports disagrees with you.
That video is sad, giving so much praise for some nerds who just sit in front of a computer and play video games, and do nothing productive in their lives and add nothing of value to society. jonathant5You could say the same thing about any sport if you replace nerds with jocks.
Do you think playing football or basketball magically creates food and goods? They make money by getting sponsors, and they get sponsors by being popular. That is their lifeblood. They're as much of a leech on society as playing video games.
This topic is mind boggling in how the average person doesn't know anything about it, yet continues to throw out prejudiced empirical double standards. People who say that calling games sports is insulting to athletes need to educate themselves. No one here is talking about Runescape or Farmville. To excel at certain games, you need to have talents. The 14h a day dedication is to bring out that talent to reach the potential. You could not understand how hard it is unless you directly participate in it. It's like saying that soccer is easy, you just kick around the ball, ignoring the almost infinite factors involved in a professional soccer game.
YOU guys are the ones insulting the very same principle of sports with this disgusting double standard.
(progamers do get regular wrist injuries in practice as well. it's damn near inspiring how hard they work for their love of the game and their fans, which makes the ignorance even more outrageous.)
If you think people getting paid to play in a Starcraft A team are your average Greg the computer nerd then why don't you go ahead and pwn everyone out there? Go buy a copy of SC2, and show us your greatness. Stop assuming you know everything about a game that's changing in popular strategies every month if you don't even play it.
Eh, the way you put it would make it seem like he doesn't understand the sport, and is comparing hockey to camel racing lol.That was intended :P I do apologise for insulting the Greatest Sport by comparing it to :lol: camel racing, but it seemed like that's how drastic it had to be from what I'm reading.Many people don't get baseball, and why its as popular as it is. They just dont get it. Doesnt mean they don't acknowledge it as a sport. They simply dislike it. I like games, love em. I just dont see it as a sport. I see it as something that as you have said, had a huge amount of dedication towards getting good at it. I see people people who were so into seeing what crazy combos or strategies people could pull off, along with having a gamer atmosphere", that they got specific places up and running.
I know what you're saying, but that's just another double standard. What is a hockey event other than "people pulling out crazy stuff on ice with a hockey atmosphere"?
I don't understand how they are comparable to an established sport like Football( N. american styl*) though. In terms of game design and execution, the differences are huge obviously. As another person said, NA football just started out as people bashing each other for entertainment (hey, sounds like video games) until they refined it, made it popular, got the sponsors and bam, today we get NFL and CFL :D
I've heard the reasons why people consider it fair game to be called one, but I dont see it as reason enough. Might be a good time to found out the same way they did, play the damn game for yourself. :)
Thats just me though; Im just having a fun debate is all. No need to get irritable.My sincerest apologies if I did seem too condescending. :oops: Usually I'm quite against the quasi-religious "E-sports" attitude of some people (JOO LOST UR PASSION UR RUUUIIINING ESPORTS :evil: :cry: :lol: ) However when I see lies, double standards, and general ignorance I get pumped up to the max and lash it out. :P
Man Starcraft makes me so seriez businez..mccoyca112
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]They are bringing entertainment to millions in their nation, how is that any different from a goddamn football player in the gym or kicking a ball around all day? ... whoa the one is physical fitness and the other is a mental, big friggin difference. The world is big enough for everything, the ammount of narrow minded **** on these forums....The__Havoc
News flash Pro Wrestling is a sport now :lol:
People get it through your heads VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT A SPORT, PERIOD. Are they COMPETITIVE? Absolutely hell yes. But they don't have training camps,
school teams, college, whatever ect. Typing is not a sport either.
There is a reason why they have the term eSport because video games are not REAL sports. I know this may come to blows the ego's of some gamers but I'm sorry video games are not a sport.
I know this may come to blow the ego of some forum posters, but I'm sorry if they are completely clueless about E-sports.FYI, training camps? Yes. Every team has a team house where players live, and practice the so-called 14h+ a day. There are coaches that make you practice until you BEG to stop. The foreign community outside of Korea has yet to catch up to this, this is a major factor why they keep getting mauled by Koreans. See MLG Anaheim. Korean invites get top 6 spots, top 7-8 is made of a Canadian living in Korea, and a Swedish guy heading to Korea.
School teams? Yes.
Condamning a 10 year old competitive activity because schools doesn't recruit on that sole premise, either based on cultural bias or ignorance, is an entirely void argument suited for the close-minded and the insecure. That's like saying that the PS2 was the worse console because it had less sales than PS1 did in 2001.
(Also, way to take a quote out of context with a sensationalist blow)
[QUOTE="The__Havoc"]
People get it through your heads VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT A SPORT, PERIOD.
Guppy507
Part 3 of the definition of sports disagrees with you.
When I see it on Sportscenter then we'll talk. Hell not even that ESPN broadcasts scrabble as a COMPETITION not as a sport.
I would love someone to give a real argument not a preference in thier mind. You just said they dont have training camps and yet that bloody video I link shows otherwise. Pro Wrestiling is a sport... but the "REAL WRASTILING" Kind im refering to. WWF is more like a mixture of bloody acting. please tell me you know Wrestling the ACTUAL sport exists right? You people realize sport is there to entertain everyone? by demonstrating what the best of the best are capable of? eSport ... has "sport" in it, wether you like it or not, and WORDS ARE NOT SET IN STONE or rather, new terms and phrases of them. You can say eSports isnt the same as Athletic Sport... your right, anyone can make that bloody clear, but starting eSports are worthless and sad... is just... well sad in itself. your nerds of a forum about games for crying out loud.
Birdy09
Making you tube videos is a sport because people compete for views.
Video game production is a sport because it entertains people and is a competition.
Nobody said eSports or worthless or sad. Like you I'm a gamer I post on a GAMING forum. But Video games should not be put in the same realm as REAL sports such as baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, you name it.
[QUOTE="Birdy09"]
I would love someone to give a real argument not a preference in thier mind. You just said they dont have training camps and yet that bloody video I link shows otherwise. Pro Wrestiling is a sport... but the "REAL WRASTILING" Kind im refering to. WWF is more like a mixture of bloody acting. please tell me you know Wrestling the ACTUAL sport exists right? You people realize sport is there to entertain everyone? by demonstrating what the best of the best are capable of? eSport ... has "sport" in it, wether you like it or not, and WORDS ARE NOT SET IN STONE or rather, new terms and phrases of them. You can say eSports isnt the same as Athletic Sport... your right, anyone can make that bloody clear, but starting eSports are worthless and sad... is just... well sad in itself. your nerds of a forum about games for crying out loud.
The__Havoc
Making you tube videos is a sport because people compete for views.
Video game production is a sport because it entertains people and is a competition.
Nobody said eSports or worthless or sad. Like you I'm a gamer I post on a GAMING forum. But Video games should not be put in the same realm as REAL sports such as baseball, basketball, football, hockey, soccer, you name it.
Read some the responses, it is actually being claimed here more than once. that "pro-Gaming" or "esports" are a sad waste of a life, thats what I'm up against, the names are no problem to me, its the double standards :) eSport is a fine name, and is separate from Sport. Its fully understandable that Sports are more imprinted into society, but shunning a completely new for that is an equivilant to "Sport" because of mindsets of our ancestors or even our parents is in my mind idiotic. Mental stimulation is important if not more important than physical exertion, at least progression wise. Both Sports and eSports share so much in common, its an insult just to "worship" the one and shun the other because of silly little differences.[QUOTE="jonathant5"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] 14 hours a day, no off seasons ect ect, its in the video, and i said harder the average before im jumped on and shown examples of more effort again.Birdy09Working more hours does not mean working harder, given that all they do is sit in a chair and play. And if something like that is the future, as shown in that video (did not watch all of it), then I feel bad for where the future is headed. That video is sad, giving so much praise for some nerds who just sit in front of a computer and play video games, and do nothing productive in their lives and add nothing of value to society. They are bringing entertainment to millions in their nation, how is that any different from a goddamn football player in the gym or kicking a ball around all day? ... whoa the one is physical fitness and the other is a mental, big friggin difference. The world is big enough for everything, the ammount of narrow minded **** on these forums....
a good sportsman haas both mental and physical strength ;)
your as narrowminded aswell bringing up the ancient history of football then pushing your starcraft agenda stay classy man stay class.
They are bringing entertainment to millions in their nation, how is that any different from a goddamn football player in the gym or kicking a ball around all day? ... whoa the one is physical fitness and the other is a mental, big friggin difference. The world is big enough for everything, the ammount of narrow minded **** on these forums....[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="jonathant5"] Working more hours does not mean working harder, given that all they do is sit in a chair and play. And if something like that is the future, as shown in that video (did not watch all of it), then I feel bad for where the future is headed. That video is sad, giving so much praise for some nerds who just sit in front of a computer and play video games, and do nothing productive in their lives and add nothing of value to society. razgriz_101
a good sportsman haas both mental and physical strength ;)
your as narrowminded aswell bringing up the ancient history of football then pushing your starcraft agenda stay classy man stay class.
and again, 500 APM is not physical ability? Football focuses more on physical and has some mental, where its the reverse for esports. so that point is moot. How am I narrow minded? thats how it started bringing up the point that it takes many many years for sports to come around and "mature".... do you know what narrow minded means? I accept sports... I cant say the same for you about eSports can I? Not just about Starcraft, thats just the prime example.... as football is given for sports.[QUOTE="razgriz_101"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] They are bringing entertainment to millions in their nation, how is that any different from a goddamn football player in the gym or kicking a ball around all day? ... whoa the one is physical fitness and the other is a mental, big friggin difference. The world is big enough for everything, the ammount of narrow minded **** on these forums....Birdy09
a good sportsman haas both mental and physical strength ;)
your as narrowminded aswell bringing up the ancient history of football then pushing your starcraft agenda stay classy man stay class.
and again, 500 APM is not physical ability? Football focuses more on physical and has some mental, where its the reverse for esports. so that point is moot. How am I narrow minded? thats how it started bringing up the point that it takes many many years for sports to come around and "mature".... do you know what narrow minded means? I accept sports... I cant say the same for you about eSports can I? Not just about Starcraft, thats just the prime example.... as football is given for sports.Would you consider Golf a sport? What about race car driving? Or something like curling? These hardly take physical ability but more hand eye coordination.. And any athelete would tell you that sports like football are as much mental as they are physical.. That being said how can we qaulify something like golf, race car driving, and curling as sports when they consist of mainly hand eye coordination.. Something that is rampant in esports..
Gaming is not a sport, it does not take the same amount of skill, dedication, and hard work as real sports (football, hockey, basketball, baseball, american football, etc), and in my opinion saying gaming is a sport, is an insult to the idea of sports and to athletes who work and train their whole lives to get better, and that work takes patience, lots of dedication, strength and etc. On the other hand, the so called "e-sports" is solely about playing more and more games while sitting and a chair/sofa. Does not take hard work to get good in a video game if one keeps playing it often. jonathant5
OMG why is this thread filled with so many ignorant bigots. I'm sorry mate but you simply do not know what you are talking about...
[QUOTE="razgriz_101"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] They are bringing entertainment to millions in their nation, how is that any different from a goddamn football player in the gym or kicking a ball around all day? ... whoa the one is physical fitness and the other is a mental, big friggin difference. The world is big enough for everything, the ammount of narrow minded **** on these forums....Birdy09
a good sportsman haas both mental and physical strength ;)
your as narrowminded aswell bringing up the ancient history of football then pushing your starcraft agenda stay classy man stay class.
and again, 500 APM is not physical ability? Football focuses more on physical and has some mental, where its the reverse for esports. so that point is moot. How am I narrow minded? thats how it started bringing up the point that it takes many many years for sports to come around and "mature".... do you know what narrow minded means? I accept sports... I cant say the same for you about eSports can I? Not just about Starcraft, thats just the prime example.... as football is given for sports.Right cause i use my physical and mental state playing bass or drums (which is way way way more physically intensive than starcraft and complex at times)is a sport as much as starcraft cause i can use 2 hand both doing diffrent actions.Thats basically your arguement?
Sports to me are physical, so clicking a mouse and typing a keyboard are physical actions thus they must be a sport to you.
E-Sports is a silly term aswell and neither would i consider darts/snooker/poker as sports either those are just flat out pub games.
Wow, gaming is not way or shape a sport. Like come on. Yes it can be competitive, but so is poker. To me a sport is an activity that is physical.
suz437
Too bad the definition of a sport is a competitive game/event that has a governing set of rules.
Quite frankly your opinion holds no weight, same goes to everyone else.
I see System Wars has this problem with definitions and putting the correct things together. First you guys think Mass Effect is an RPG now you're trying to change a definition.
You could say the same thing about any sport if you replace nerds with jocks.[QUOTE="jonathant5"] That video is sad, giving so much praise for some nerds who just sit in front of a computer and play video games, and do nothing productive in their lives and add nothing of value to society. RavenLoud
Do you think playing football or basketball magically creates food and goods? They make money by getting sponsors, and they get sponsors by being popular. That is their lifeblood. They're as much of a leech on society as playing video games.
This topic is mind boggling in how the average person doesn't know anything about it, yet continues to throw out prejudiced empirical double standards. People who say that calling games sports is insulting to athletes need to educate themselves. No one here is talking about Runescape or Farmville. To excel at certain games, you need to have talents. The 14h a day dedication is to bring out that talent to reach the potential. You could not understand how hard it is unless you directly participate in it. It's like saying that soccer is easy, you just kick around the ball, ignoring the almost infinite factors involved in a professional soccer game.
YOU guys are the ones insulting the very same principle of sports with this disgusting double standard.
(progamers do get regular wrist injuries in practice as well. it's damn near inspiring how hard they work for their love of the game and their fans, which makes the ignorance even more outrageous.)
If you think people getting paid to play in a Starcraft A team are your average Greg the computer nerd then why don't you go ahead and pwn everyone out there? Go buy a copy of SC2, and show us your greatness. Stop assuming you know everything about a game that's changing in popular strategies every month if you don't even play it.
Eh, the way you put it would make it seem like he doesn't understand the sport, and is comparing hockey to camel racing lol.That was intended :P I do apologise for insulting the Greatest Sport by comparing it to :lol: camel racing, but it seemed like that's how drastic it had to be from what I'm reading.Many people don't get baseball, and why its as popular as it is. They just dont get it. Doesnt mean they don't acknowledge it as a sport. They simply dislike it. I like games, love em. I just dont see it as a sport. I see it as something that as you have said, had a huge amount of dedication towards getting good at it. I see people people who were so into seeing what crazy combos or strategies people could pull off, along with having a gamer atmosphere", that they got specific places up and running.
I know what you're saying, but that's just another double standard. What is a hockey event other than "people pulling out crazy stuff on ice with a hockey atmosphere"?
I don't understand how they are comparable to an established sport like Football( N. american styl*) though. In terms of game design and execution, the differences are huge obviously. As another person said, NA football just started out as people bashing each other for entertainment (hey, sounds like video games) until they refined it, made it popular, got the sponsors and bam, today we get NFL and CFL :D
I've heard the reasons why people consider it fair game to be called one, but I dont see it as reason enough. Might be a good time to found out the same way they did, play the damn game for yourself. :)
Thats just me though; Im just having a fun debate is all. No need to get irritable.My sincerest apologies if I did seem too condescending. :oops: Usually I'm quite against the quasi-religious "E-sports" attitude of some people (JOO LOST UR PASSION UR RUUUIIINING ESPORTS :evil: :cry: :lol: ) However when I see lies, double standards, and general ignorance I get pumped up to the max and lash it out. :P
Man Starcraft makes me so seriez businez..mccoyca112
I never stated that playing your typical sports does that, and is productive to society. Although I love sports, both playing and watching them, I am also one of the people who believes that many of these athletes dont really do anything productive for this world (then again, not many in this world do accomplish that, so this is a moot point), and I am a believer that professional athletes in North America (and Europe/Brazil when it comes to Soccer) get overpaid. Anyway, the main thing I was getting at was the amount of work you have to put in to become a professional athlete and to even have a chance at getting into a professional league is considerably more than being a pro-gamer. Also, training (being someone who had to constantly train for Varsity soccer and rugby games, I know not pro-level so not the same thing but regardless) was grueling, with training at 6:15am for an hour before school started, and 2 hour training after school, was not only at times excruciatingly tiring, but also very boring (hitting the gym, or doing laps, and etc). What is the training for the pro-gamers? Play games over and over again, which can get repetitive yes, but it is a fun activity so its not hard work, its just work mixed with fun.
Right cause i use my physical and mental state playing bass or drums (which is way way way more physically intensive than starcraft and complex at times)is a sport as much as starcraft cause i can use 2 hand both doing diffrent actions.Thats basically your arguement?
Sports to me are physical, so clicking a mouse and typing a keyboard are physical actions thus they must be a sport to you.
E-Sports is a silly term aswell and neither would i consider darts/snooker/poker as sports either those are just flat out pub games.
razgriz_101
Playing an instrument is not a competitive activity. You're clutching at straws here.
a good sportsman haas both mental and physical strength ;)lol wut. People who come to defend misconceptions are "pushing an agenda", while the ones who started the debate by insulting a new medium with little to no experience on the matter with outstanding empirical claims such as "no-life players, not known enough nor good enough for good old me cus I don't know it, play some real sports lololol nerds" are telling them to stay classy. Can we at least acknowledge this irony?your as narrowminded aswell bringing up the ancient history of football then pushing your starcraft agenda stay classy man stay class.razgriz_101
(That being said, I do not wish to condescend on people who do not enjoy Starcraft or whatever, all the power to you. However you can't deny this crippling double standard displayed upon the topic.)
Also, it's not small physical feat to maintain hundreds of fingertaps per seconds in a bo5-7 series, which could last hours. The slightest slip will make you lose. Endurance, both physical and mental, is one of the most important skills to have in a Starleague.
Korean progamers have regularly scheduled gym workout for all their players. In fact, progamers are rapidly becoming the new sex symbol portrayed by their media in South Korea.
Yes, they are all progamers.
A few excerpts from Jim Sterlings Twitter.
""If you're gonna accuse Dtoid of not doing research, you should do enough research to see you're attacking a reader's community blog.-Jim Sterling""
""Oh, and E-Sports spokesmen should stop being so f****** insecure. Always so defensive when someone doesn't "respect" your competitive gaming-Jim Sterling""
""If you're confident that what you do is a sport, don't fly into histrionics and cry about disrespect at the slightest provocation.-Jim Sterling""
""We've had many pro-esport pieces go up recently. We promoted ONE counterpoint to that. To selectively focus on that one post is ******.-Jim Sterling""
and again, 500 APM is not physical ability? Football focuses more on physical and has some mental, where its the reverse for esports. so that point is moot. How am I narrow minded? thats how it started bringing up the point that it takes many many years for sports to come around and "mature".... do you know what narrow minded means? I accept sports... I cant say the same for you about eSports can I? Not just about Starcraft, thats just the prime example.... as football is given for sports.[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]
a good sportsman haas both mental and physical strength ;)
your as narrowminded aswell bringing up the ancient history of football then pushing your starcraft agenda stay classy man stay class.
razgriz_101
Would you consider Golf a sport? What about race car driving? Or something like curling? These hardly take physical ability but more hand eye coordination.. And any athelete would tell you that sports like football are as much mental as they are physical.. That being said how can we qaulify something like golf, race car driving, and curling as sports when they consist of mainly hand eye coordination.. Something that is rampant in esports..
I dont see the relevance of your example. as there are a few definitions of "Sport" only which of one states "Physical" and thats just because its the most common definition for it, its not even set in stone. A sport is a past time, a competitive past time and with all examples boils down to rules and regulations that are classed as a "GAME". Sport is a glorifying word. earned? yes. But eSports are up there aswell and will come into thier own even more as time goes on, this is undeniable. @Razgriz and Razgriz, you can blame video games for youth not being so interested in football, maybe thats a reality that they provide more stimulating competition at a more accessible rate, maybe its the elitest chavy football players that dominate school football that put other kids off, but its a product of progression, for all you know in 100-200 years time physical sports will take a back seat, may sound ridiculous now... but not impossible.and again, 500 APM is not physical ability? Football focuses more on physical and has some mental, where its the reverse for esports. so that point is moot. How am I narrow minded? thats how it started bringing up the point that it takes many many years for sports to come around and "mature".... do you know what narrow minded means? I accept sports... I cant say the same for you about eSports can I? Not just about Starcraft, thats just the prime example.... as football is given for sports.[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]
a good sportsman haas both mental and physical strength ;)
your as narrowminded aswell bringing up the ancient history of football then pushing your starcraft agenda stay classy man stay class.
razgriz_101
Right cause i use my physical and mental state playing bass or drums (which is way way way more physically intensive than starcraft and complex at times)is a sport as much as starcraft cause i can use 2 hand both doing diffrent actions.Thats basically your arguement?
Sports to me are physical, so clicking a mouse and typing a keyboard are physical actions thus they must be a sport to you.
E-Sports is a silly term aswell and neither would i consider darts/snooker/poker as sports either those are just flat out pub games.
Ok people keep giving me these silly analogy, ARTS AND MUSIC ARE CRAFTs, not regulated "Competitive Games" .... they dont have rules to abide and compare to, get it right... these arguments are getting ridiculous. Ofcourse its physical to you, and your right, but why cant eSport exist? I wonder who laughed at eMAIL when it was first announced/invented? Offering a similar purpose with a different method.I never stated that playing your typical sports does that, and is productive to society. Although I love sports, both playing and watching them, I am also one of the people who believes that many of these athletes dont really do anything productive for this world (then again, not many in this world do accomplish that, so this is a moot point), and I am a believer that professional athletes in North America (and Europe/Brazil when it comes to Soccer) get overpaid. Anyway, the main thing I was getting at was the amount of work you have to put in to become a professional athlete and to even have a chance at getting into a professional league is considerably more than being a pro-gamer. Also, training (being someone who had to constantly train for Varsity soccer and rugby games, I know not pro-level so not the same thing but regardless) was grueling, with training at 6:15am for an hour before school started, and 2 hour training after school, was not only at times excruciatingly tiring, but also very boring (hitting the gym, or doing laps, and etc). What is the training for the pro-gamers? Play games over and over again, which can get repetitive yes, but it is a fun activity so its not hard work, its just work mixed with fun.
jonathant5
Huge double standards. Just painfully huge double standards. I doubt you have a remote idea of how much effort you have to put into getting good at an eSport. Heck, I doubt you even know what being good at an eSport means.
Just so you know, most of the people who is in the SC2 proscene right now started playing Starcraft during primary school. IdrA exercises 12 hours a day on practice days.
Play games over and over again, which can get repetitive yes, but it is a fun activity so its not hard work, its just work mixed with fun.
jonathant5
It's not just playing games over and over while having fun. It's perfecting strategies, tactics, and control accuracy & efficiency. Pro-gamers, especially SC gamers and alike, are physically exhausted after a 14h day of training.
Doing this all day is not equivalent to being number 1 on the CoD leaderboards.. there is a MASSIVE difference. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q&feature=related
[QUOTE="razgriz_101"][QUOTE="Birdy09"] and again, 500 APM is not physical ability? Football focuses more on physical and has some mental, where its the reverse for esports. so that point is moot. How am I narrow minded? thats how it started bringing up the point that it takes many many years for sports to come around and "mature".... do you know what narrow minded means? I accept sports... I cant say the same for you about eSports can I? Not just about Starcraft, thats just the prime example.... as football is given for sports.Birdy09
Right cause i use my physical and mental state playing bass or drums (which is way way way more physically intensive than starcraft and complex at times)is a sport as much as starcraft cause i can use 2 hand both doing diffrent actions.Thats basically your arguement?
Sports to me are physical, so clicking a mouse and typing a keyboard are physical actions thus they must be a sport to you.
E-Sports is a silly term aswell and neither would i consider darts/snooker/poker as sports either those are just flat out pub games.
Ok people keep giving me these silly analogy, ARTS AND MUSIC ARE CRAFTs, not regulated "Competitive Games" .... they dont have rules to abide and compare to, get it right... these arguments are getting ridiculous. Ofcourse its physical to you, and your right, but why cant eSport exist? I wonder who laughed at eMAIL when it was first announced/invented? Offering a similar purpose with a different method.Music scenes are insanely competative :-/ and thats by no means of a long shot.
Btw Fencing is a sport that pushes you mentally more than physically but still very demanding physically :P i know i done it for 4 years until i got a knee injury never got back into it cause i took up the bass, but intend to jump back in sabre weilding in the next couple weeks.Trust me if theres any other sport that could prove your misconceptions wrong bout sports and not being a mental thing wrong.
Ok people keep giving me these silly analogy, ARTS AND MUSIC ARE CRAFTs, not regulated "Competitive Games" .... they dont have rules to abide and compare to, get it right... these arguments are getting ridiculous. Ofcourse its physical to you, and your right, but why cant eSport exist? I wonder who laughed at eMAIL when it was first announced/invented? Offering a similar purpose with a different method.[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="razgriz_101"]
Right cause i use my physical and mental state playing bass or drums (which is way way way more physically intensive than starcraft and complex at times)is a sport as much as starcraft cause i can use 2 hand both doing diffrent actions.Thats basically your arguement?
Sports to me are physical, so clicking a mouse and typing a keyboard are physical actions thus they must be a sport to you.
E-Sports is a silly term aswell and neither would i consider darts/snooker/poker as sports either those are just flat out pub games.
razgriz_101
Music scenes are insanely competative :-/ and thats by no means of a long shot.
Btw Fencing is a sport that pushes you mentally more than physically but still very demanding physically :P i know i done it for 4 years until i got a knee injury never got back into it cause i took up the bass, but intend to jump back in sabre weilding in the next couple weeks.Trust me if theres any other sport that could prove your misconceptions wrong bout sports and not being a mental thing wrong.
-_- I cant face-palm anymore than I am now. Yes, crafting is competitive, pretty much everything in life can boil down to competition. but its not a game. it doent fall into the same category as football or video games even remotely. Fencing... always wanted to try that, but theres none of it in my area.. shame. I have no misconceptions though, I accept sports, and some of the guys are smart, and yes it does take mental ability aswell as physical. But your are the one denying the importance and credibility of eSports. so how about you stop saying "NO U" when im not attacking Sports just comparing.
Gaming....sport :lol: Gaming is the EXACT opposite of a sport. As a former baseball player I find it insulting to even consider the noting of gaming as a sport.millerlight89
"A sport is an organized, competitive, entertaining, and skillful activityrequiring commitment, strategy, and fair play, in which a winner and loser can be defined by objective means."
From Wikipedia.
Gaming certainly sounds like a sport to me. If things like Poker, horseback riding, etc. are sports, so is gaming.
I never stated that playing your typical sports does that, and is productive to society. Although I love sports, both playing and watching them, I am also one of the people who believes that many of these athletes dont really do anything productive for this world (then again, not many in this world do accomplish that, so this is a moot point), and I am a believer that professional athletes in North America (and Europe/Brazil when it comes to Soccer) get overpaid. Anyway, the main thing I was getting at was the amount of work you have to put in to become a professional athlete and to even have a chance at getting into a professional league is considerably more than being a pro-gamer. Also, training (being someone who had to constantly train for Varsity soccer and rugby games, I know not pro-level so not the same thing but regardless) was grueling, with training at 6:15am for an hour before school started, and 2 hour training after school, was not only at times excruciatingly tiring, but also very boring (hitting the gym, or doing laps, and etc). What is the training for the pro-gamers? Play games over and over again, which can get repetitive yes, but it is a fun activity so its not hard work, its just work mixed with fun.I'm sorry, but you need to inform yourself better. I doubt it's possible for me to explain them with words, you must be playing the game to really grasp just how complex it can be, and how much refinement is needed not only perfect a razor sharp execution, but also understanding both your strategy and your opponents'. Not to mention the mindgames that can go on. Training in Starcraft, bootcamp style, is essential to succes. Many pros develop wrist injuries and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from overpractice/bad posture. I'd even say that mechanics is more important than strategy in Starcraft BW up until the high levels.jonathant5
You cannot just play 2h after school to become a progamer. Simply not possible, as seen by the massive gap between Korean and foreign players. The amount of work and talent needed to just make into a Starleague (consisting of 32 players left over from hundreds in preliminaries) is nothing less than that of a soccer player or whatever. There is this thing called a Courage league in Korea, where people would compete for a progaming license. Hundreds of people go in, but only a few gets it. Those few who do get it would then have to face the preliminaries where many of them lose every single game for months. It is extremely difficult to get noticed in Korea because the skill and effort put into this is so high. Even if you practice 14h+ a day, you'd most likely end up being a B teamer/practice partner that'll never be heard of.
The progaming life is not easy at all. I know many here think they are just nerds who happen to be popular cus they can press some buttons lolol. That's a gross underappreciation of people who basically subscribe to child labor in the hopes of winning a starleague. You cannot ever take a break, people are constantly coming out with new strategies even 10 years after SC:BW's release. If you were godly during 2003 one season, you can be completely obsolete in 2004, when people figured out what your tricks were and devised the appropriate counter strategies.
Link for easy humourous learning
As expected from the troll master, as well as from the religious E-sports folks he trolled.A few excerpts from Jim Sterlings Twitter.
""If you're gonna accuse Dtoid of not doing research, you should do enough research to see you're attacking a reader's community blog.-Jim Sterling""""Oh, and E-Sports spokesmen should stop being so f****** insecure. Always so defensive when someone doesn't "respect" your competitive gaming-Jim Sterling""
""If you're confident that what you do is a sport, don't fly into histrionics and cry about disrespect at the slightest provocation.-Jim Sterling""
""We've had many pro-esport pieces go up recently. We promoted ONE counterpoint to that. To selectively focus on that one post is ******.-Jim Sterling""WilliamRLBaker
1-Make uninformed generalizations on a sensitive issue
2-Condescend those who called out on these lies, calling them too serious while refusing to acknowledge his own shortcomings.
3-????
4-PROFITS...and millions of hits on website :D
I'm sorry, but you need to inform yourself better. I doubt it's possible for me to explain them with words, you must be playing the game to really grasp just how complex it can be, and how much refinement is needed not only perfect a razor sharp execution, but also understanding both your strategy and your opponents'. Not to mention the mindgames that can go on. Training in Starcraft, bootcamp style, is essential to succes. Many pros develop wrist injuries and Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from overpractice/bad posture. I'd even say that mechanics is more important than strategy in Starcraft BW up until the high levels.[QUOTE="jonathant5"]I never stated that playing your typical sports does that, and is productive to society. Although I love sports, both playing and watching them, I am also one of the people who believes that many of these athletes dont really do anything productive for this world (then again, not many in this world do accomplish that, so this is a moot point), and I am a believer that professional athletes in North America (and Europe/Brazil when it comes to Soccer) get overpaid. Anyway, the main thing I was getting at was the amount of work you have to put in to become a professional athlete and to even have a chance at getting into a professional league is considerably more than being a pro-gamer. Also, training (being someone who had to constantly train for Varsity soccer and rugby games, I know not pro-level so not the same thing but regardless) was grueling, with training at 6:15am for an hour before school started, and 2 hour training after school, was not only at times excruciatingly tiring, but also very boring (hitting the gym, or doing laps, and etc). What is the training for the pro-gamers? Play games over and over again, which can get repetitive yes, but it is a fun activity so its not hard work, its just work mixed with fun.
RavenLoud
You cannot just play 2h after school to become a progamer. Simply not possible, as seen by the massive gap between Korean and foreign players. The amount of work and talent needed to just make into a Starleague (consisting of 32 players left over from hundreds in preliminaries) is nothing less than that of a soccer player or whatever. There is this thing called a Courage league in Korea, where people would compete for a progaming license. Hundreds of people go in, but only a few gets it. Those few who do get it would then have to face the preliminaries where many of them lose every single game for months. It is extremely difficult to get noticed in Korea because the skill and effort put into this is so high. Even if you practice 14h+ a day, you'd most likely end up being a B teamer/practice partner that'll never be heard of.
The progaming life is not easy at all. I know many here think they are just nerds who happen to be popular cus they can press some buttons lolol. That's a gross underappreciation of people who basically subscribe to child labor in the hopes of winning a starleague. You cannot ever take a break, people are constantly coming out with new strategies even 10 years after SC:BW's release. If you were godly during 2003 one season, you can be completely obsolete in 2004, when people figured out what your tricks were and devised the appropriate counter strategies.
Link for easy humourous learning
Maybe I may not be aware of what it takes to be noticed in Korea, but one thing I do know is what it takes to be good in Starcraft. I love SC, it was the 2nd RTS I played but the only one I constantly kept coming back to (mainly because so many of my friends who games got me back into it) , and I know it takes a lot of skill, a lot more skill than it takes to be good in an FPS. My first RTS was Empire Earth, in case you were wondering, its the game that got me hooked in the genre, and even though now I dont play them that much (due to time constraints, hell I only actually have time to play games during the summer now), I still know what it means to be good in an RTS, most of all SC. That being said, I still disagree with you on the matter, and I still feel that e-sports are not sports, and for one I dont see why the discussion has solely been revolving around SC (granted if I am not mistaken, it is the most played game at the pro-level) when there are other games out there that are played at a pro-level and also are a part of esports. For instance, would you say that something such as CoD or Halo takes the same amount of hardwork and dedication as SC? No, yet it would also be considered an esport by your logic. Anyway, doesnt really matter if esports are a sport or not, it is still a form of entertainment (although I personally cant imagine myself being entertained by spectating a videogame) and it is competitive, and at the end of the day that is all that matters.That being said, I still disagree with you on the matter, and I still feel that e-sports are not sports, and for one I dont see why the discussion has solely been revolving around SC (granted if I am not mistaken, it is the most played game at the pro-level) when there are other games out there that are played at a pro-level and also are a part of esports.Yes, but the splash Starcraft made is undeniable. It is the spearhead of the E-sports movement along with Counter Strike (SC, CS, coincidence? I think not :P). I talk about Starcraft because I'm a big fan of it, and I'm not that knowledgable on other E-sports :oops: However I do know what I see, and I see great potential. Your opinion on e-sports falls in line with mine actually. I do not view it as the same thing as any other sports. However, their basic concepts are exactly the same i.e. competition, skill, fair winner etc. It is special for me because I love the game so much. Yes, I admit to being a Starcraft fanboy, but that doesn't make my points any less true if you were to research yourself.
For instance, would you say that something such as CoD or Halo takes the same amount of hardwork and dedication as SC? No, yet it would also be considered an esport by your logic.
Haha, I'm not really with or against them being called sports since console FPS are wildly regarded as being a joke, especially CoD, at the competitive level. Different games make different sports IMO. Baseball is not the same sport as Football and never will be. I have never said that all games are sports. In fact, I have declared that I do not sympathise with the "E-SPORTSSSSSZZZ" crowd, I'm just a guy that loves Starcraft. There is no e-sports vs. sports from our position. Me, Birdy, and many others argued against the uninformed prejudices because we simply feel robbed and disgusted by the double standards and the false information. It's basically mass defamation, which is strange since I'd doubt that anyone would do that if their position was really so strong.
Anyway, doesnt really matter if esports are a sport or not, it is still a form of entertainment (although I personally cant imagine myself being entertained by spectating a videogame) and it is competitive, and at the end of the day that is all that matters.
Fully agreed, the e-sports thing is just semantics. I just want people to inform themselves before claiming stuff. You wouldn't be happy if I were in your position either.If I make a statement that says "pfff, sports are weak, e-sports r teh realz competition. People dun even train for soccer" you'd be all over me and rightfully so.jonathant5
EDIT: Also Empire Earth was boss, you are a man of taste :D All is cool.
Wow. Some people are so hung up on a lable. "Sports". Who cares?
Gaming can be a competitive activity as much as any traditional sport. But what's the real differentiator here? Honestly, the only real difference is that some are more widely accepted than another.
Once more people give a damn about competitive gaming, then yes, it will be come more accepted as something to take seriously. StarCraft works in Korea because so many people there care about it.
I don't think we can say that same here in the US...yet.
Other than that, there is no widely accepted definition as we can see in 12+ pages of discussion in this thread.
In my eyes, the best hope for competitive gaming is fighting games. The past few EVOs have been interesting to watch. Why? Because there is great color commentary from the likes of Seth Kilian. It's easier for a layman to see what's going on onscreen than say, an FPS which looks like chaos with the multiple angles and much larger area to keep track of.
[QUOTE="Famiking"]Chess is not a sport either so please don't bring that up. Yangire
Well to be fair the Olympics recognizes Chess as a sport.
If they're the ones who pick what is a sport and what isn't, then video gaming isn't a sport ;) Honestly, I'm trying to protect the meaning of the word sport. It has good connotations which should not be applied to chess and video games.[QUOTE="Yangire"][QUOTE="Famiking"]Chess is not a sport either so please don't bring that up. Famiking
Well to be fair the Olympics recognizes Chess as a sport.
If they're the ones who pick what is a sport and what isn't, then video gaming isn't a sport ;) Honestly, I'm trying to protect the meaning of the word sport. It has good connotations which should not be applied to chess and video games. You're basically saying that you're smarter than the Olympic community, you completely figured out Chess/videogames, and you concluded that they aren't even close to competitive. Pray tell, what do you know that we don't?
This.I see nothing wrong with that. No way I'd ever consider playing video games as a sport either.
Renegade_Fury
I will accept that e-sports can be defined as sports, if it is acknowleged that they are pretty lame as far as sports go. Even the most hardcore Korean gamers put in maybe 80 hours a week into Starcraft. That is a huge time commitment, but they are spending it playing a video game. That in no way compares to the training a professional athlete puts themselves through. Everything they do is focused around getting their bodies to peak physical condition. There is no time off. What a competitive gamer does is far less impressive than what a professional athlete does.
I will accept that e-sports can be defined as sports, if it is acknowleged that they are pretty lame as far as sports go. Even the most hardcore Korean gamers put in maybe 80 hours a week into Starcraft. That is a huge time commitment, but they are spending it playing a video game. That in no way compares to the training a professional athlete puts themselves through. Everything they do is focused around getting their bodies to peak physical condition. There is no time off. What a competitive gamer does is far less impressive than what a professional athlete does.
DarthBilf
Yet another who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Everything a SC2 player does is focuses around getting their mind and hands to peak condition. They are playing a video games.. yes.. but what is tennis if not a game? Why does the fact that the game is electronic matter? Why is pure physical force/ability so revered when mental ability isn't? What. The. F***.
The double standard that people are applying here is appalling and is a sign of a closed mind.
Doing everything to attain peak mental condition is regarded as inferior to those who does the same thing but with their bodies. Perhaps you need to check the definition of "double standard". Or, even better, perhaps you should try to best all those lowlife scums that dare think that a video game has competitive values. Since physical training is far superior (in my opinion, body/mind conditions are both different side of the same coin), why don't you show they can easily crush the n00bs playing Starcraft doing far less impressive stuff. (in the game, not IRL :P)I will accept that e-sports can be defined as sports, if it is acknowleged that they are pretty lame as far as sports go. Even the most hardcore Korean gamers put in maybe 80 hours a week into Starcraft. That is a huge time commitment, but they are spending it playing a video game. That in no way compares to the training a professional athlete puts themselves through. Everything they do is focused around getting their bodies to peak physical condition. There is no time off. What a competitive gamer does is far less impressive than what a professional athlete does.
DarthBilf
[QUOTE="RavenLoud"] You're basically saying that you're smarter than the Olympic community, you completely figured out Chess/videogames, and you concluded that they aren't even close to competitive. Pray tell, what do you know that we don't?FamikingI'm sorry but the Olympic community doesn't decide what's a sport and what's not a sport. They don't own the word - the word existed before they did. There are plenty of people who agree with me. I didn't say gaming wasn't competitive, I just said it wasn't a sport. Video games are about as sportive as university grades following a bell curve. It's competitive but so what. No one said that the Olympic guys decides what you and I think are sports or not, but if those guys say that this thing called chess is complex and competitive enough to rival those who spend their life building muscles and learning moves, maybe there's something more into it than you think.
Meanwhile I still await your realization upon the fact that YOU are the one who is pretty much telling us what is a sport and what is not a sport with little knowledge on the topic of competitive gaming and chess, backed up by "alot of people" which would lead us into the old popularity = truth logic, which is completely infallible. In fact, the Earth was flat until the 16th century when people realized that it was round. Then the Earth suddenly became round because people said so. Just like that. Every human being has instant access to every single piece of information available in the universe when they were born. The word "close-minded" and "prejudice" are just there for fun. They don't mean anything at all.
These arguments are starting to run in circles, in the end of the day it doesn't matter what you and I think about other competitive activities, it doesn't change how good or bad they are.
What do change is how certain statements are further from the truth then they should be.
No they don't.[QUOTE="DarthBilf"][QUOTE="Yangire"]
Well to be fair the Olympics recognizes Chess as a sport.
GD1551
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_sports#Recognized_sports
http://www.olympic.org/sports
"Mind sports, by their nature, cannot be part of the program," says Moreau, though she says the IOC hasn't rejected their bids entirely.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1827716,00.html#ixzz1UeVfNSNQ
[QUOTE="GD1551"]
[QUOTE="DarthBilf"] No they don't.DarthBilf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_sports#Recognized_sports
http://www.olympic.org/sports
"Mind sports, by their nature, cannot be part of the program," says Moreau, though she says the IOC hasn't rejected their bids entirely.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1827716,00.html#ixzz1UeVfNSNQ
I will accept that e-sports can be defined as sports, if it is acknowleged that they are pretty lame as far as sports go. Even the most hardcore Korean gamers put in maybe 80 hours a week into Starcraft. That is a huge time commitment, but they are spending it playing a video game. That in no way compares to the training a professional athlete puts themselves through. Everything they do is focused around getting their bodies to peak physical condition. There is no time off. What a competitive gamer does is far less impressive than what a professional athlete does.
DarthBilf
And you know this how? Have you actually tried getting good at a game?
[QUOTE="DarthBilf"]
I will accept that e-sports can be defined as sports, if it is acknowleged that they are pretty lame as far as sports go. Even the most hardcore Korean gamers put in maybe 80 hours a week into Starcraft. That is a huge time commitment, but they are spending it playing a video game. That in no way compares to the training a professional athlete puts themselves through. Everything they do is focused around getting their bodies to peak physical condition. There is no time off. What a competitive gamer does is far less impressive than what a professional athlete does.
Tezcatlipoca666
Yet another who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Everything a SC2 player does is focuses around getting their mind and hands to peak condition. They are playing a video games.. yes.. but what is tennis if not a game? Why does the fact that the game is electronic matter? Why is pure physical force/ability so revered when mental ability isn't? What. The. F***.
The double standard that people are applying here is appalling and is a sign of a closed mind.
"Everything a SC2 player does is focused around getting their mind and hands to peak physical condition." Wrong. When they eat meals, do they only eat foods which will benefit their mind and umm..hands? Do they train as much as they possibly can without risking injury? No. The act of playing tennis is not what makes it more impressive in my eyes, it is the hours players spent lifting weights, running, and practicing that do. To try to equate what competitive gamers do and what professional athletes do trivializes real sports.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment