You would hope so since RPGs don't have much else going for them but most times I find them shit even in that department.
Are RPGs even a good medium for narratives and storytelling?
@Maroxad said:
@PurpleMan5000: Pretty much. I find a lot of the C&C stuff, branching storylines to be a half measure, a comprimise. Doing 2 things poorly as opposed to one thing well.
@Jag85 I am one of those people who consider visual novels to be a subgenre of the adventure genre. Hence why you always see me mention Adventure games and never VNs. Because I put them under that adventure umbrella ;) From a storytelling perspective. I havent seen C&C done particulary well, even in the VN's that I have played.
You mean the Zero Escape series? Those aren't straight-up VNs, but are actually adventure games with VN elements. It does C&C well, with a lot of choices and plenty of branching story paths. But it's still a "gamey" adventure game, with an emphasis on puzzles, so still has some of the writing issues affecting pure adventure games.
A pure VN would be something like Clannad or Steins Gate, where you don't have puzzles, but the only interactivity you get are making choices from time to time (hence the debate about whether they're "video games"). I've mentioned before (like a year or two back) how I thought Steins Gate has some of the best science-fiction writing I've seen in any media, or how Clannad has some of the best drama writing I've seen in any media, despite having choices & consequences and branching story paths.
Steins;Gate is incredible. Just thought I should chip in and say that.
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@PurpleMan5000: Pretty much. I find a lot of the C&C stuff, branching storylines to be a half measure, a comprimise. Doing 2 things poorly as opposed to one thing well.
@Jag85 I am one of those people who consider visual novels to be a subgenre of the adventure genre. Hence why you always see me mention Adventure games and never VNs. Because I put them under that adventure umbrella ;) From a storytelling perspective. I havent seen C&C done particulary well, even in the VN's that I have played.
You mean the Zero Escape series? Those aren't straight-up VNs, but are actually adventure games with VN elements. I think it does C&C well, with a lot of choices and plenty of branching story paths. But it's still a "gamey" adventure game, with an emphasis on puzzles, so still has some of the writing issues affecting pure adventure games.
A pure VN would be something like Clannad or Steins Gate, where you don't have puzzles, but the only interactivity you get are making choices from time to time (hence the debate about whether they're "video games"). I've mentioned before (like a year or two back) how I thought Steins Gate has some of the best science-fiction writing I've seen in any media, or how Clannad has some of the best drama writing I've seen in any media, despite having choices & consequences and branching story paths.
Even the more pure VNs still fall under the adventure game umbrella. Hell, we see the same with western adventure games where there is very little, if any puzzle solving.
I never played Clannad, namely because of the artstyle.
@aigis said:
@charizard1605 said:
Steins;Gate is incredible. Just thought I should chip in and say that.
Tuturuuuu♪
Shut up assistant.
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@PurpleMan5000: Pretty much. I find a lot of the C&C stuff, branching storylines to be a half measure, a comprimise. Doing 2 things poorly as opposed to one thing well.
@Jag85 I am one of those people who consider visual novels to be a subgenre of the adventure genre. Hence why you always see me mention Adventure games and never VNs. Because I put them under that adventure umbrella ;) From a storytelling perspective. I havent seen C&C done particulary well, even in the VN's that I have played.
You mean the Zero Escape series? Those aren't straight-up VNs, but are actually adventure games with VN elements. I think it does C&C well, with a lot of choices and plenty of branching story paths. But it's still a "gamey" adventure game, with an emphasis on puzzles, so still has some of the writing issues affecting pure adventure games.
A pure VN would be something like Clannad or Steins Gate, where you don't have puzzles, but the only interactivity you get are making choices from time to time (hence the debate about whether they're "video games"). I've mentioned before (like a year or two back) how I thought Steins Gate has some of the best science-fiction writing I've seen in any media, or how Clannad has some of the best drama writing I've seen in any media, despite having choices & consequences and branching story paths.
Even the more pure VNs still fall under the adventure game umbrella. Hell, we see the same with western adventure games where there is very little, if any puzzle solving.
I never played Clannad, namely because of the artstyle.
Are you referring to walking simulators? The difference with those is that you still control the character's movement (hence "walking simulator"), whereas pure VNs don't even let you do that much. But overall, I kind of agree that VNs are an adventure game sub-genre.
Yeah, Clannad's art style can be off-putting at first, and takes some getting used to. But otherwise, it's a great VN with excellent writing.
Some action RPG's don't have much meaningful story at all. The Dark Souls games come to mind, I never have the faintest clue as to what the premise is of each one (I do know they each have one) but I like fighting monsters so there's that.
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@PurpleMan5000: Pretty much. I find a lot of the C&C stuff, branching storylines to be a half measure, a comprimise. Doing 2 things poorly as opposed to one thing well.
@Jag85 I am one of those people who consider visual novels to be a subgenre of the adventure genre. Hence why you always see me mention Adventure games and never VNs. Because I put them under that adventure umbrella ;) From a storytelling perspective. I havent seen C&C done particulary well, even in the VN's that I have played.
You mean the Zero Escape series? Those aren't straight-up VNs, but are actually adventure games with VN elements. I think it does C&C well, with a lot of choices and plenty of branching story paths. But it's still a "gamey" adventure game, with an emphasis on puzzles, so still has some of the writing issues affecting pure adventure games.
A pure VN would be something like Clannad or Steins Gate, where you don't have puzzles, but the only interactivity you get are making choices from time to time (hence the debate about whether they're "video games"). I've mentioned before (like a year or two back) how I thought Steins Gate has some of the best science-fiction writing I've seen in any media, or how Clannad has some of the best drama writing I've seen in any media, despite having choices & consequences and branching story paths.
Even the more pure VNs still fall under the adventure game umbrella. Hell, we see the same with western adventure games where there is very little, if any puzzle solving.
I never played Clannad, namely because of the artstyle.
Are you referring to walking simulators? The difference with those is that you still control the character's movement (hence "walking simulator"), whereas pure VNs don't even let you do that much. But overall, I kind of agree that VNs are an adventure game sub-genre.
Yeah, Clannad's art style can be off-putting at first, and takes some getting used to. But otherwise, it's a great VN with excellent writing.
Yeah pretty much. As for hte games that are getting less puzzle heavy. Most adventure games are. Whereas something like Zork, would have you be solving problems nearly constantly, or exploring. Modern adventure games have a lot more emphasis on narrative moments.
Maybe I should give it a shot then, maybe if I play it enough I will be able to tolerate those... bug eyes. How important is the sound? I have no speakers... so
Not quite on topic but I wish there were more games that had truly in-your-face, nasty villains. Characters like Kefka from FF6 and Vaas from Far Cry 3 are what I'm looking for. So many games have decent stories and okay villains, but having a villain that continuously shows up to **** with you and/or hurt/kill loved ones totally builds my determination to finish the game and kill that motherfucker once and for all.
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
You mean the Zero Escape series? Those aren't straight-up VNs, but are actually adventure games with VN elements. I think it does C&C well, with a lot of choices and plenty of branching story paths. But it's still a "gamey" adventure game, with an emphasis on puzzles, so still has some of the writing issues affecting pure adventure games.
A pure VN would be something like Clannad or Steins Gate, where you don't have puzzles, but the only interactivity you get are making choices from time to time (hence the debate about whether they're "video games"). I've mentioned before (like a year or two back) how I thought Steins Gate has some of the best science-fiction writing I've seen in any media, or how Clannad has some of the best drama writing I've seen in any media, despite having choices & consequences and branching story paths.
Even the more pure VNs still fall under the adventure game umbrella. Hell, we see the same with western adventure games where there is very little, if any puzzle solving.
I never played Clannad, namely because of the artstyle.
Are you referring to walking simulators? The difference with those is that you still control the character's movement (hence "walking simulator"), whereas pure VNs don't even let you do that much. But overall, I kind of agree that VNs are an adventure game sub-genre.
Yeah, Clannad's art style can be off-putting at first, and takes some getting used to. But otherwise, it's a great VN with excellent writing.
Yeah pretty much. As for hte games that are getting less puzzle heavy. Most adventure games are. Whereas something like Zork, would have you be solving problems nearly constantly, or exploring. Modern adventure games have a lot more emphasis on narrative moments.
Maybe I should give it a shot then, maybe if I play it enough I will be able to tolerate those... bug eyes. How important is the sound? I have no speakers... so
Well, adventure games nowadays are moving more towards the narrative-heavy approach of visual novels, while moving away from the puzzle emphasis of classic point & click games.
The sound is very important. It just wouldn't be the same without the voices or music. Also, it's worth noting that it's very long, even by VN standards. By the way, have you checked out Steins Gate?
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
You mean the Zero Escape series? Those aren't straight-up VNs, but are actually adventure games with VN elements. I think it does C&C well, with a lot of choices and plenty of branching story paths. But it's still a "gamey" adventure game, with an emphasis on puzzles, so still has some of the writing issues affecting pure adventure games.
A pure VN would be something like Clannad or Steins Gate, where you don't have puzzles, but the only interactivity you get are making choices from time to time (hence the debate about whether they're "video games"). I've mentioned before (like a year or two back) how I thought Steins Gate has some of the best science-fiction writing I've seen in any media, or how Clannad has some of the best drama writing I've seen in any media, despite having choices & consequences and branching story paths.
Even the more pure VNs still fall under the adventure game umbrella. Hell, we see the same with western adventure games where there is very little, if any puzzle solving.
I never played Clannad, namely because of the artstyle.
Are you referring to walking simulators? The difference with those is that you still control the character's movement (hence "walking simulator"), whereas pure VNs don't even let you do that much. But overall, I kind of agree that VNs are an adventure game sub-genre.
Yeah, Clannad's art style can be off-putting at first, and takes some getting used to. But otherwise, it's a great VN with excellent writing.
Yeah pretty much. As for hte games that are getting less puzzle heavy. Most adventure games are. Whereas something like Zork, would have you be solving problems nearly constantly, or exploring. Modern adventure games have a lot more emphasis on narrative moments.
Maybe I should give it a shot then, maybe if I play it enough I will be able to tolerate those... bug eyes. How important is the sound? I have no speakers... so
Well, adventure games nowadays are moving more towards the narrative-heavy approach of visual novels, while moving away from the puzzle emphasis of classic point & click games.
The sound is very important. It just wouldn't be the same without the voices or music. Also, it's worth noting that it's very long, even by VN standards. By the way, have you checked out Steins Gate?
Yup, I played Stein's Gate.
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
@Jag85 said:
@Maroxad said:
Even the more pure VNs still fall under the adventure game umbrella. Hell, we see the same with western adventure games where there is very little, if any puzzle solving.
I never played Clannad, namely because of the artstyle.
Are you referring to walking simulators? The difference with those is that you still control the character's movement (hence "walking simulator"), whereas pure VNs don't even let you do that much. But overall, I kind of agree that VNs are an adventure game sub-genre.
Yeah, Clannad's art style can be off-putting at first, and takes some getting used to. But otherwise, it's a great VN with excellent writing.
Yeah pretty much. As for hte games that are getting less puzzle heavy. Most adventure games are. Whereas something like Zork, would have you be solving problems nearly constantly, or exploring. Modern adventure games have a lot more emphasis on narrative moments.
Maybe I should give it a shot then, maybe if I play it enough I will be able to tolerate those... bug eyes. How important is the sound? I have no speakers... so
Well, adventure games nowadays are moving more towards the narrative-heavy approach of visual novels, while moving away from the puzzle emphasis of classic point & click games.
The sound is very important. It just wouldn't be the same without the voices or music. Also, it's worth noting that it's very long, even by VN standards. By the way, have you checked out Steins Gate?
Yup, I played Stein's Gate.
Is it enjoyable if you're not really into Japanese tastes in stories?
There are obviously games that have had great stories, but the thing is... I can't think of a single one that wouldn't have been better served by being delivered through another medium.
The Last of Us had a great story. Would've been better as a show, book, or film.
The reason?
Pacing. Pacing is a BIG part of storytelling, and in a game, that's in the hands of the audience. Not the creator.
In that sense, games built around stories only serve to put barriers in front of the story, to make the audience work to get the next story beat.
So no, I'm less interested in games as a storytelling medium than I am in them as a medium for competition, creativity, and good old-fashioned fun and challenge.
Let me add: I'm not saying that games shouldn't have stories, or that they can't be enjoyable.
I'm saying that the people who say, "I play games for the stories" should probably just look into becoming readers instead. Or, hell, binge-watch something on Netflix.
@jv303 said:
Let me add: I'm not saying that games shouldn't have stories, or that they can't be enjoyable.
I'm saying that the people who say, "I play games for the stories" should probably just look into becoming readers instead. Or, hell, binge-watch something on Netflix.
Pretty much my position.
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