I'm sure it is, but it's got nothing on GTA;).
CannedWorms
Not really. It was a nice very believable world to look at.
My point being:
? You could still screw around just as much in GTA4 as you could in prior games. Just because you can't do stupid activities like fly around on a jetpack or fly a commercial airliner through the city doesn't mean it's a bad sandbox game. Plus, like you said, it has so much atmosphere, as well as detail, which a lot of open world games lack.
enterawesome
So what you're saying is you would rather R* focused on over-the-top gameplay? If I wanted that I would have the mediocre Saint's Row, which I'm sure had one fifth of GTA's budget. It's very diffciult to criticize R* for evolving the GTA series like they did, and if they had have went that route I'm sure the formula would have been tiresome by now.
And again how can you criticize a sandbox game for having good narrative and atmosphere? Are you suddenly forgetting about all the things you can do in GTA 4 outside of the story? If you have played GTA for at least an hour you would realize all the "dick-headness" is still there, but they took a more realistic approach. I can still freefall from a helicopter into the sea at over 300ft, I can still kill prostitutes, I can still hit a tramp with a baseball bat.
CannedWorms
Its a matter of understanding sandbox design.What Rockstar did was go down the same path as the game Mafia with GTA IV. The result is something that goes completely against what is sandbox design.
In good sandbox games player experimentation and use of the tools and environment of the 'sandbox' is primary, things such as missions are an extension of this - they provide framework for the players creative carnage.
GTA IV completely betrayed this, in favour of something highly scripted and focused on Rockstar's own directed vision of telling the games narrative. Reality is this is no different a traditional game and went completely against the evolution in emergent narratives in sandbox games (something that is becoming bigger in recent). To add to this the mission design was a large step back in this respect, not giving the player the ability to actually execute missions as you would in a sandbox, no experimentation in most missions, creativity in use of the tools and systems. This was actually a step back to something comparable to GTA 3's sandbox, while progressive for its time its by today's standards poor sandbox design.
Compared to a game that completely understands it - Crackdown. The systems and mechanics are laid out before the player, they have a sprawling environment to traverse littered with objectives. The developers from there take the reigns off the player and tell them to complete these objectives as they see fit.
The open open world has a purpose rather than serving as a set piece for directed action, rather serving as a tangible environment for the player to learn and explore, in order to gain an upper hand in complete their objectives.
GTA IV's world is nice to look at but does nothing to serve the sandbox gameplay, and activities for most of the part are not an extension of the sandbox design (ironically things like watching TV and playing pool etc., while dense in adding to the world do not expand on the central game design).
Sure you can mess about in GTA IV, however it is all outside the central focus of the game - the story arc, and even the tools given to the player are extremely limited compared to lets say, saints row 2. Tools in the gameworld = more experimentation, there is the feeling Rockstar scaled them back in GTA IV in order to keep the focus on the narrative.
Sure the atmosphere of GTA IV is great it is very believable , however this doesn't change the fact that its sandbox design is rather weak.
Ironically its GTA IV's multiplayer where the sandbox design shines... Though its worth keeping in mind San Andreas Online multiplayer has gone well beyond in creating an amazing multiplayer sandbox (everything from mmo like gang warfare to turning cities into stunt arenas for up to 200 people at once).
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