Best STORY games ever?

Your kidding, those movies were awesome. The first time you see them they are simply amazing. I have to admit I couldnt see the last 2 for a second time because of how long and boring they became. I can still see the first one as many times as I like though.

Uzumaki_Naruto5

The movies were ok but the second and particularly the third really butchered what Tolkien wrote into a popcorn action flick... the first one was closer but still not there...

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="akif22"]

have to say MGS

MGS3's story in particular was amazing, especially how it blended fiction with real historic events, like the cuban missile crisis and other 60s cold war stuff

Uzumaki_Naruto5

It would certainly make a good, yet bizzare film. It'll have an asian flavour to it though, naturally.

Not really, MGS games arent really...Asian. I dunno how to define them, its obvious that Kojima is proud of his Japanese nationallity by a few remarks in the game but there isnt any Japanese feel or anything to them.

It certainly isn't Western.

I have an Asian film here that is very similar to Metal Gear Solid in terms of style. It's OTT just like Metal Gear.

If Metal Gear Solid became a film it would appeal to the Asian scene more than the Western scene. That's why if there ever was a Hollywood version it'd suck. The studios would put their grubby paws on it.

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

Yes TIME is certainly very important in storytelling.

That's how much detail you can put in, and being restricted in amount of details you can put in certainly hurts.

Why do you think book is always better than the movie counter-part?

Seriously, you need to go study more yourself

FrozenLiquid

Hmm.... -thinks to himself-

Ah yes!

The Godfather, originally a novel, is far superior to its book counterpart according to many people.

Here's another one: 2001: A Space Odyssey. More thought provoking than the book could ever get you to do.

The only people that think the Lord of the Rings books are better than their movie counterparts are those that are fanatic about the books. I myself am a fan of the books, but I appreciate the movies for being damn good, and equalling what was mentioned in Tolkien's writing.

Ok, I mucked up. Time is important. What I meant was length. If length was the most important thing about stories, the longer a movie is, the better it'd be. King Kong 2005 is deemed inferior to the 1933 version because it's so bloody long and melodramatic. It took 2 hours worth of film and put it into 3 hours. No good.

Pirates of the Caribbean 3 is long, boring bullsh**. There are many movies in the hour and a half mark that totally destroy that 2 hr, 50 minute piece of crap.

Sure, I'm going to study more, because i don't know enough personally. But when you have studied Citizen Kane, The Matrix, the Godfather, Apocalypse Now..... Asian films like Pulse, One Missed Call, Brotherhood of War.....European films like Amelie and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrells.... video games such as Halo and Knights of the Old Republic.... then you can come and tell me to study stories yourself. And I don't mean studying them in class time. I meant studying them in your own time. Perhaps you can write 100 leafs worth of notes on Halo just like me. Then maybe you'll learn a fraction of what stories in all mediums have to offer.

Ok I also got little carried away too. I even mentioned Old Boy when the movie was much better than original manga.

However, in most cases many people do generally recieve the impression that the book is better than movies, because it is difficult to put large amount of information within 2 to 3 hour limit. If you study about literatures and films that much, you should know how difficult that is.

I also study lots of films, books, and less extend games. I've watched Amelie, Apocalypse Now, Tales of Two Sisters, JSA, etc etc etc. I also have read many books like Art of War, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Norse Mythology etc. I think there is absolutely no reason why my opinion should weigh less than yours.

Deus ex was great and all but if we are going to talk about philosophy then Planescape wins easily... dude seriously play that game before you come here and hate on it... it makes you look very uninformed to be honest...

FlockofSpagheti

What's the main philosophy? What you believe in makes it real?

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

Yes TIME is certainly very important in storytelling.

That's how much detail you can put in, and being restricted in amount of details you can put in certainly hurts.

Why do you think book is always better than the movie counter-part?

Seriously, you need to go study more yourself

Uzumaki_Naruto5

Hmm.... -thinks to himself-

Ah yes!

The Godfather, originally a novel, is far superior to its book counterpart according to many people.

Here's another one: 2001: A Space Odyssey. More thought provoking than the book could ever get you to do.

The only people that think the Lord of the Rings books are better than their movie counterparts are those that are fanatic about the books. I myself am a fan of the books, but I appreciate the movies for being damn good, and equalling what was mentioned in Tolkien's writing.

Ok, I mucked up. Time is important. What I meant was length. If length was the most important thing about stories, the longer a movie is, the better it'd be. King Kong 2005 is deemed inferior to the 1933 version because it's so bloody long and melodramatic. It took 2 hours worth of film and put it into 3 hours. No good.

Pirates of the Caribbean 3 is long, boring bullsh**. There are many movies in the hour and a half mark that totally destroy that 2 hr, 50 minute piece of crap.

Sure, I'm going to study more, because i don't know enough personally. But when you have studied Citizen Kane, The Matrix, the Godfather, Apocalypse Now..... Asian films like Pulse, One Missed Call, Brotherhood of War.....European films like Amelie and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrells.... video games such as Halo and Knights of the Old Republic.... then you can come and tell me to study stories yourself. And I don't mean studying them in class time. I meant studying them in your own time. Perhaps you can write 100 leafs worth of notes on Halo just like me. Then maybe you'll learn a fraction of what stories in all mediums have to offer.

Your kidding, those movies were awesome. The first time you see them they are simply amazing. I have to admit I couldnt see the last 2 for a second time because of how long and boring they became. I can still see the first one as many times as I like though.

It certainly isn't Western.

I have an Asian film here that is very similar to Metal Gear Solid in terms of style. It's OTT just like Metal Gear.

If Metal Gear Solid became a film it would appeal to the Asian scene more than the Western scene. That's why if there ever was a Hollywood version it'd suck. The studios would put their grubby paws on it.

I dont know, I havent really paid any attention to whether the games have a Western or Asian feel to them but there wasnt any part at all in the games that made me thing "Whoa, thats so Asian:P"

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="tidus222"]

i agree the average movie story is better than the average game story

BUTTTT

the best game stories are better than the best movie stories

FlockofSpagheti

dude are you on crack... Planescape is a great story but better than any movie story... not at all man...

Dude actually I meant every... any makes it sound like it is not better than even the worst but I think it is better than most movie stories... however since movies have been around longer there are more opportunities for them to have amazing stories so naturally there are some with better stories than PLanescape...

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

Deus ex was great and all but if we are going to talk about philosophy then Planescape wins easily... dude seriously play that game before you come here and hate on it... it makes you look very uninformed to be honest...

FrozenLiquid

What's the main philosophy? What you believe in makes it real?

I do not think there is a main philosophy to be honest... that is a largepart of the game but I would not say it is the main part. It is hard to pin down what makes Planescape so special because there are so many things that contribute...

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

Yes TIME is certainly very important in storytelling.

That's how much detail you can put in, and being restricted in amount of details you can put in certainly hurts.

Why do you think book is always better than the movie counter-part?

Seriously, you need to go study more yourself

FrozenLiquid

Hmm.... -thinks to himself-

Ah yes!

The Godfather, originally a novel, is far superior to its book counterpart according to many people.

Here's another one: 2001: A Space Odyssey. More thought provoking than the book could ever get you to do.

The only people that think the Lord of the Rings books are better than their movie counterparts are those that are fanatic about the books. I myself am a fan of the books, but I appreciate the movies for being damn good, and equalling what was mentioned in Tolkien's writing.

Ok, I mucked up. Time is important. What I meant was length. If length was the most important thing about stories, the longer a movie is, the better it'd be. King Kong 2005 is deemed inferior to the 1933 version because it's so bloody long and melodramatic. It took 2 hours worth of film and put it into 3 hours. No good.

Pirates of the Caribbean 3 is long, boring bullsh**. There are many movies in the hour and a half mark that totally destroy that 2 hr, 50 minute piece of crap.

Sure, I'm going to study more, because i don't know enough personally. But when you have studied Citizen Kane, The Matrix, the Godfather, Apocalypse Now..... Asian films like Pulse, One Missed Call, Brotherhood of War.....European films like Amelie and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrells.... video games such as Halo and Knights of the Old Republic.... then you can come and tell me to study stories yourself. And I don't mean studying them in class time. I meant studying them in your own time. Perhaps you can write 100 leafs worth of notes on Halo just like me. Then maybe you'll learn a fraction of what stories in all mediums have to offer.

I personally don't think so. If you mean storywise, then you're off your rocker. It's one of the greatest modern stories ever written.

As for the film, I think it's great. The mis en scene is just unsurpassed. Don't want to sound arrogant but sometimes I wonder if I could ever achieve that level of cinematography/mis en scene. If I put any of those three movies on TV now it wouldn't have aged one bit. That combined with a stellar score by Howard Shore, brilliant acting (if an actor is stereotyped into his role you know it's a good film) and visionary direction, and I think we have a winner on our hands.

Personally, I don't like much of PJ's other films. Bad Taste, Braindead, Meet the Feebles and The Frighteners are something I could pull of anyday, but Lord of the Rings just like gave PJ a new name. I think there was one thing that separates those films from a lot of others: passion.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

Yes TIME is certainly very important in storytelling.

That's how much detail you can put in, and being restricted in amount of details you can put in certainly hurts.

Why do you think book is always better than the movie counter-part?

Seriously, you need to go study more yourself

TriangleHard

Hmm.... -thinks to himself-

Ah yes!

The Godfather, originally a novel, is far superior to its book counterpart according to many people.

Here's another one: 2001: A Space Odyssey. More thought provoking than the book could ever get you to do.

The only people that think the Lord of the Rings books are better than their movie counterparts are those that are fanatic about the books. I myself am a fan of the books, but I appreciate the movies for being damn good, and equalling what was mentioned in Tolkien's writing.

Ok, I mucked up. Time is important. What I meant was length. If length was the most important thing about stories, the longer a movie is, the better it'd be. King Kong 2005 is deemed inferior to the 1933 version because it's so bloody long and melodramatic. It took 2 hours worth of film and put it into 3 hours. No good.

Pirates of the Caribbean 3 is long, boring bullsh**. There are many movies in the hour and a half mark that totally destroy that 2 hr, 50 minute piece of crap.

Sure, I'm going to study more, because i don't know enough personally. But when you have studied Citizen Kane, The Matrix, the Godfather, Apocalypse Now..... Asian films like Pulse, One Missed Call, Brotherhood of War.....European films like Amelie and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrells.... video games such as Halo and Knights of the Old Republic.... then you can come and tell me to study stories yourself. And I don't mean studying them in class time. I meant studying them in your own time. Perhaps you can write 100 leafs worth of notes on Halo just like me. Then maybe you'll learn a fraction of what stories in all mediums have to offer.

Ok I also got little carried away too. I even mentioned Old Boy when the movie was much better than original manga.

However, in most cases many people do generally recieve the impression that the book is better than movies, because it is difficult to put large amount of information within 2 to 3 hour limit. If you study about literatures and films that much, you should know how difficult that is.

I also study lots of films, books, and less extend games. I've watched Amelie, Apocalypse Now, Tales of Two Sisters, JSA, etc etc etc. I also have read many books like Art of War, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Norse Mythology etc. I think there is absolutely no reason why my opinion should weigh less than yours.

Yes, that's the impression, because most people don't realize how hard it is to translate novels to film, and games to film, and vice versa.

Translating a novel to film does not mean simply re arranging the dialogue, trimming out bits because it doesn't fit et voila. I could do that within a day. That's what Steve Kloves did with Harry Potter, and it completely butchered the HP stories (although I like Harry Potter 3, because Alfonso Cuaron is awesome).

When people say film adaption, they don't really adapt. They rather.... translate. Adapting is to change the pace, show things in a different way (because you have a visual medium on your hands, why tell when you can show?).

Most script writers, in fact almost all of them, are only there to cash in a few dollars. Hence "translating". What most people don't realize in the film medium, or they choose to ignore this because it requires more work, is that dialogue is only 10% of communication. The other 90% is purely visual.

Watch Marlon Brando's performance in the Godfather. Most of his character comes through the way he acts, not what he speaks.

story was very overrated IMO. techncial standpoint it was amazing. which is why it won all those awards. but LOTR is just meh in story .the last 2 dragged. not to long. they just draged and got no where. im sorry but a movie has to be able to finish the job to get somewhere. Starwars gets heat for that from me because the ending to return of the jedi was just dumb but atleast it was a better ending than Lord of The Rings. man that was just way to meh.jg4xchamp

What are you smoking.....

The Lord of the Rings story is the basis for all modern fantasy stories. It's the classic story of Good and Evil. Star Wars is Lord of the Rings in space. Lucas admitted it (Course, he went to Greek mythology whilst Tolkien looked at Norse mythology). You can see it in the AT-AT walkers as they're inspired by the Oliphaunts/Mumakaii. The dwindling Jedi can be loosely connected to the Elves sailing West.

You just "mehed" Tolkien's story. That's just scandalous. Without Lord of the Rings, half of the stories we have today would be nothing.

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

Yes TIME is certainly very important in storytelling.

That's how much detail you can put in, and being restricted in amount of details you can put in certainly hurts.

Why do you think book is always better than the movie counter-part?

Seriously, you need to go study more yourself

FrozenLiquid

Hmm.... -thinks to himself-

Ah yes!

The Godfather, originally a novel, is far superior to its book counterpart according to many people.

Here's another one: 2001: A Space Odyssey. More thought provoking than the book could ever get you to do.

The only people that think the Lord of the Rings books are better than their movie counterparts are those that are fanatic about the books. I myself am a fan of the books, but I appreciate the movies for being damn good, and equalling what was mentioned in Tolkien's writing.

Ok, I mucked up. Time is important. What I meant was length. If length was the most important thing about stories, the longer a movie is, the better it'd be. King Kong 2005 is deemed inferior to the 1933 version because it's so bloody long and melodramatic. It took 2 hours worth of film and put it into 3 hours. No good.

Pirates of the Caribbean 3 is long, boring bullsh**. There are many movies in the hour and a half mark that totally destroy that 2 hr, 50 minute piece of crap.

Sure, I'm going to study more, because i don't know enough personally. But when you have studied Citizen Kane, The Matrix, the Godfather, Apocalypse Now..... Asian films like Pulse, One Missed Call, Brotherhood of War.....European films like Amelie and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrells.... video games such as Halo and Knights of the Old Republic.... then you can come and tell me to study stories yourself. And I don't mean studying them in class time. I meant studying them in your own time. Perhaps you can write 100 leafs worth of notes on Halo just like me. Then maybe you'll learn a fraction of what stories in all mediums have to offer.

Ok I also got little carried away too. I even mentioned Old Boy when the movie was much better than original manga.

However, in most cases many people do generally recieve the impression that the book is better than movies, because it is difficult to put large amount of information within 2 to 3 hour limit. If you study about literatures and films that much, you should know how difficult that is.

I also study lots of films, books, and less extend games. I've watched Amelie, Apocalypse Now, Tales of Two Sisters, JSA, etc etc etc. I also have read many books like Art of War, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Norse Mythology etc. I think there is absolutely no reason why my opinion should weigh less than yours.

Yes, that's the impression, because most people don't realize how hard it is to translate novels to film, and games to film, and vice versa.

Translating a novel to film does not mean simply re arranging the dialogue, trimming out bits because it doesn't fit et voila. I could do that within a day. That's what Steve Kloves did with Harry Potter, and it completely butchered the HP stories (although I like Harry Potter 3, because Alfonso Cuaron is awesome).

When people say film adaption, they don't really adapt. They rather.... translate. Adapting is to change the pace, show things in a different way (because you have a visual medium on your hands, why tell when you can show?).

Most script writers, in fact almost all of them, are only there to cash in a few dollars. Hence "translating". What most people don't realize in the film medium, or they choose to ignore this because it requires more work, is that dialogue is only 10% of communication. The other 90% is purely visual.

Watch Marlon Brando's performance in the Godfather. Most of his character comes through the way he acts, not what he speaks.

IMO Harry Potter 3 was the worst out of all the Potter movies. IT just totally ruined the Harry Potter atmosphere. Children of Men was pretty good though.

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] story was very overrated IMO. techncial standpoint it was amazing. which is why it won all those awards. but LOTR is just meh in story .the last 2 dragged. not to long. they just draged and got no where. im sorry but a movie has to be able to finish the job to get somewhere. Starwars gets heat for that from me because the ending to return of the jedi was just dumb but atleast it was a better ending than Lord of The Rings. man that was just way to meh.FrozenLiquid

What are you smoking.....

The Lord of the Rings story is the basis for all modern fantasy stories. It's the classic story of Good and Evil. Star Wars is Lord of the Rings in space. Lucas admitted it (Course, he went to Greek mythology whilst Tolkien looked at Norse mythology). You can see it in the AT-AT walkers as they're inspired by the Oliphaunts/Mumakaii. The dwindling Jedi can be loosely connected to the Elves sailing West.

You just "mehed" Tolkien's story. That's just scandalous. Without Lord of the Rings, half of the stories we have today would be nothing.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]

Deus ex was great and all but if we are going to talk about philosophy then Planescape wins easily... dude seriously play that game before you come here and hate on it... it makes you look very uninformed to be honest...

FlockofSpagheti

What's the main philosophy? What you believe in makes it real?

I do not think there is a main philosophy to be honest... that is a largepart of the game but I would not say it is the main part. It is hard to pin down what makes Planescape so special because there are so many things that contribute...

Well I'm googling Planescape and philosophy and nothing's coming up. I want to know what philosophy this Planescape has, and it surely there would be discussions about it on the internet.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

no the ending was meh. and the movie itself was meh. u in a past thread so enlightend me that the movie is actually far off the book as well. so i didnt bash tolkien. i bashed that overrated piece of garbage peter jackson. the movies were meh. technical achievements yes. but he just didnt conclude the stories. i loved the first movie. the second movie was dumbed down IMO for over the top battle scenes. and the 3rd movie like i said dragged on way to much and really got nowhere at the end. big disappointment for a 3 plus hour movie.jg4xchamp

Oh I see where you're getting at. I thought you tried to discredit Tolkien.

I personally thought they should have ended on top of Gondor when Aragorn was crowned King and they bowed to the Hobbits. Then they did the lame ass ending to the Grey Havens.

But yeah, PJ hasn't learned how to keep his films under 3 hours.

That being said, it's still one of the better series ever made. I like all the top films and all, but for pure enjoyment as well as class, I like LotR. NZ pride, but whatever :P.

Just for the record, I don't watch movies because critics say it's awesome. I watch movies that move me, that inspire me. A lot of Academy Award movies IMO are just plain boring *cough*Chicago*cough*

Its annoying in MGS when snake repeats everything he hears out loud in that OTT gravelly voice! you can tell the dialogue is translated from Japanese, as it isn't properly streamlined for english speaking ears. Same with Final fantasy.Jenova_Flare

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] no the ending was meh. and the movie itself was meh. u in a past thread so enlightend me that the movie is actually far off the book as well. so i didnt bash tolkien. i bashed that overrated piece of garbage peter jackson. the movies were meh. technical achievements yes. but he just didnt conclude the stories. i loved the first movie. the second movie was dumbed down IMO for over the top battle scenes. and the 3rd movie like i said dragged on way to much and really got nowhere at the end. big disappointment for a 3 plus hour movie.FrozenLiquid

Oh I see where you're getting at. I thought you tried to discredit Tolkien.

I personally thought they should have ended on top of Gondor when Aragorn was crowned King and they bowed to the Hobbits. Then they did the lame ass ending to the Grey Havens.

But yeah, PJ hasn't learned how to keep his films under 3 hours.

Planescape Torment is the best... it is the best out there by far...FlockofSpagheti

IMO Harry Potter 3 was the worst out of all the Potter movies. IT just totally ruined the Harry Potter atmosphere. Children of Men was pretty good though.

Uzumaki_Naruto5

You mean took the most liberties out of the storyline? I'll give you that, and the poor acting from Radcliffe.

But in terms of mis en scene/cinematography, it hasn't been beat. Chris Columbus, although staying somewhat true to the first two books, just totally pulled us out of the HP universe. It made me feel that we're watching a movie. It looked as if magic was not fully integrated into their life. It just seemed a bit.... off.

In Prisoner of Azkaban, everything seemed natural. These people were acting as though magic was part of every day life. Even Rowling finds it her favourite film. The next two were pretty darn good, but not as visually expressive as PoA.

In the first few minutes of OotP, it looked like David Yates would pull of another Cuaron and really put in his own style. It sorta turned into nothingness though. No real sense of style. It was great though; I liked it.

Uzamaki Naruto dude. I will say sorry for the flame wars that happened that had nothign to do with your thread. Frozen Liguid just had to get carried away and ruin it for the rest of us. Way to go jerk. (Just kidding, sarcasm. look mods its a joke please dont mod me)jg4xchamp

Aye.

When it comes to films I get carried away, coz I adore them. Films are my life.

Gotta go and check out the film locations that I'm shooting with my crew tomorrow. It's gonna be fun!

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] no the ending was meh. and the movie itself was meh. u in a past thread so enlightend me that the movie is actually far off the book as well. so i didnt bash tolkien. i bashed that overrated piece of garbage peter jackson. the movies were meh. technical achievements yes. but he just didnt conclude the stories. i loved the first movie. the second movie was dumbed down IMO for over the top battle scenes. and the 3rd movie like i said dragged on way to much and really got nowhere at the end. big disappointment for a 3 plus hour movie.jg4xchamp

Oh I see where you're getting at. I thought you tried to discredit Tolkien.

I personally thought they should have ended on top of Gondor when Aragorn was crowned King and they bowed to the Hobbits. Then they did the lame ass ending to the Grey Havens.

But yeah, PJ hasn't learned how to keep his films under 3 hours.

Yeah King Kong wasn't as good as LotR for sure. I'm counting on his next film to see whether he's the real deal or not.

Or he should just go back to cult, splat horror films. He could teach Eli Roth and the splat pack a lesson.

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"] no the ending was meh. and the movie itself was meh. u in a past thread so enlightend me that the movie is actually far off the book as well. so i didnt bash tolkien. i bashed that overrated piece of garbage peter jackson. the movies were meh. technical achievements yes. but he just didnt conclude the stories. i loved the first movie. the second movie was dumbed down IMO for over the top battle scenes. and the 3rd movie like i said dragged on way to much and really got nowhere at the end. big disappointment for a 3 plus hour movie.FrozenLiquid

Oh I see where you're getting at. I thought you tried to discredit Tolkien.

I personally thought they should have ended on top of Gondor when Aragorn was crowned King and they bowed to the Hobbits. Then they did the lame ass ending to the Grey Havens.

But yeah, PJ hasn't learned how to keep his films under 3 hours.

Yeah King Kong wasn't as good as LotR for sure. I'm counting on his next film to see whether he's the real deal or not.

Or he should just go back to cult, splat horror films. He could teach Eli Roth and the splat pack a lesson.

just let this topic die alreadytidus222

Well I'm googling Planescape and philosophy and nothing's coming up. I want to know what philosophy this Planescape has, and it surely there would be discussions about it on the internet.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

FrozenLiquid

Dude Google does not mean anything... I will try to talk specifics without ruining the story entirely but here goes...some of the main philosophy deals with guilt and the possibility of redemption... also morality and what it means to be good or evil.the worth and consequences of immortality are also all over the place... belief is also a main philosophy like I said before... for examplethe gods in the game only exist because people believe in them... and their power wanes when less people believe in them but that is only one non-spoiler example because I said I would not ruin the plot for you... on that note the game questions religious belief but not in a heavy handed or bashing way... there is much muchmore but my memories of Planescape need some refreshing before I can give direct examples...

oh god isnt he doing a Halo game. man thats gonna suck. without over the top visuals hes done.

and rob zombie needs to leave horror films. if Halloween stinks, ill be mad.jg4xchamp

No, Neil Blommkamp is gonna direct Halo if they get the green light. Haven't you seen the short film trailer he's made already? It sucks. He's got no sense of sty le or anything.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Well I'm googling Planescape and philosophy and nothing's coming up. I want to know what philosophy this Planescape has, and it surely there would be discussions about it on the internet.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

FlockofSpagheti

Dude Google does not mean anything... I will try to talk specifics without ruining the story entirely but here goes...some of the main philosophy deals with guilt and the possibility of redemption... also morality and what it means to be good or evil.the worth and consequences of immortality are also all over the place... belief is also a main philosophy like I said before... for examplethe gods in the game only exist because people believe in them... and their power wanes when less people believe in them but that is only one non-spoiler example because I said I would not ruin the plot for you... on that note the game questions religious belief but not in a heavy handed or bashing way... there is much muchmore but my memories of Planescape need some refreshing before I can give direct examples...

Um yeah....

That's not philosophy. Those are themes.

Also, there are movies which have those themes and then some. As I said, Waking Life or try the much easier (but still hard to comprehend) Ghost in the Shell movies.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Well I'm googling Planescape and philosophy and nothing's coming up. I want to know what philosophy this Planescape has, and it surely there would be discussions about it on the internet.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

FlockofSpagheti

Dude Google does not mean anything... I will try to talk specifics without ruining the story entirely but here goes...some of the main philosophy deals with guilt and the possibility of redemption... also morality and what it means to be good or evil.the worth and consequences of immortality are also all over the place... belief is also a main philosophy like I said before... for examplethe gods in the game only exist because people believe in them... and their power wanes when less people believe in them but that is only one non-spoiler example because I said I would not ruin the plot for you... on that note the game questions religious belief but not in a heavy handed or bashing way... there is much muchmore but my memories of Planescape need some refreshing before I can give direct examples...

you could have just said the tagline

WHAT CAN CHANGE THE NATURE OF A MAN

LOL

in the end the story comes down to your personal beliefs just like KOTOR since you choose the responses to the dialogue....

you could have just said the tagline

WHAT CAN CHANGE THE NATURE OF A MAN

LOL

in the end the story comes down to your personal beliefs just like KOTOR since you choose the responses to the dialogue....

tidus222

Yeah that's easier to comprehend.

But I thought you weren't into cliches? That theme has been done to death.

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Well I'm googling Planescape and philosophy and nothing's coming up. I want to know what philosophy this Planescape has, and it surely there would be discussions about it on the internet.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

FrozenLiquid

Dude Google does not mean anything... I will try to talk specifics without ruining the story entirely but here goes...some of the main philosophy deals with guilt and the possibility of redemption... also morality and what it means to be good or evil.the worth and consequences of immortality are also all over the place... belief is also a main philosophy like I said before... for examplethe gods in the game only exist because people believe in them... and their power wanes when less people believe in them but that is only one non-spoiler example because I said I would not ruin the plot for you... on that note the game questions religious belief but not in a heavy handed or bashing way... there is much muchmore but my memories of Planescape need some refreshing before I can give direct examples...

Um yeah....

That's not philosophy. Those are themes.

Also, there are movies which have those themes and then some. As I said, Waking Life or try the much easier (but still hard to comprehend) Ghost in the Shell movies.

They are only themes because I did not spoil the story man... plus I am forgetting all the little details that make up the Planescape philosophy... by the way Ghost in the Shell is a terrible movie... very pedestrian honestly... if you want a good story and philosophy in anime go watch Paranoia Agent or Monster seriously... those just stomp all over GiTs. The philosophy in Planescape is multifaceted... but ultimately the meanings in the game can be interpreted in different ways... which now that I think about it is probably the biggest philosophy behind the game because the tagline (what can change the nature of a man) is intentionallynot even answered during the game... but seriously man don't hate until you have played... because you have no idea what you are talking about until then...

Planescape Torment is the best... it is the best out there by far...FlockofSpagheti

I totally agree

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Well I'm googling Planescape and philosophy and nothing's coming up. I want to know what philosophy this Planescape has, and it surely there would be discussions about it on the internet.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

FlockofSpagheti

Dude Google does not mean anything... I will try to talk specifics without ruining the story entirely but here goes...some of the main philosophy deals with guilt and the possibility of redemption... also morality and what it means to be good or evil.the worth and consequences of immortality are also all over the place... belief is also a main philosophy like I said before... for examplethe gods in the game only exist because people believe in them... and their power wanes when less people believe in them but that is only one non-spoiler example because I said I would not ruin the plot for you... on that note the game questions religious belief but not in a heavy handed or bashing way... there is much muchmore but my memories of Planescape need some refreshing before I can give direct examples...

Um yeah....

That's not philosophy. Those are themes.

Also, there are movies which have those themes and then some. As I said, Waking Life or try the much easier (but still hard to comprehend) Ghost in the Shell movies.

They are only themes because I did not spoil the story man... plus I am forgetting all the little details that make up the Planescape philosophy... by the way Ghost in the Shell is a terrible movie... very pedestrian honestly... if you want a good story and philosophy in anime go watch Paranoia Agent or Monster seriously... those just stomp all over GiTs. The philosophy in Planescape is multifaceted... but ultimately the meanings in the game can be interpreted in different ways... which now that I think about it is probably the biggest philosophy behind the game because the tagline (what can change the nature of a man) is intentionallynot even answered during the game... but seriously man don't hate until you have played... because you have no idea what you are talking about until then...

yeah at the end you can choose any response to that question

the trancendant one says nothing can change the nature of a man

and nameless one choses belief

or you can choose love, regret etc.....

i loved the ending and the story about all the lives the nameless one has live and how each time he followed a different series of events but ended up with the same fate...

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]Planescape Torment is the best... it is the best out there by far...naval

I totally agree

The problem with this is that most people on here have never played Planetscape torment. So to fire it up as one of the best stories is making the kiddies go " Oh no FF is better as we prefer Japanese weirdness with effeminate characters and people with bug eyes."

Besides if you make the story to complex the console kiddies will get horribly confused. They like their games with an image and japanese cartoons are full of eye candy.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"][QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Well I'm googling Planescape and philosophy and nothing's coming up. I want to know what philosophy this Planescape has, and it surely there would be discussions about it on the internet.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

FlockofSpagheti

Dude Google does not mean anything... I will try to talk specifics without ruining the story entirely but here goes...some of the main philosophy deals with guilt and the possibility of redemption... also morality and what it means to be good or evil.the worth and consequences of immortality are also all over the place... belief is also a main philosophy like I said before... for examplethe gods in the game only exist because people believe in them... and their power wanes when less people believe in them but that is only one non-spoiler example because I said I would not ruin the plot for you... on that note the game questions religious belief but not in a heavy handed or bashing way... there is much muchmore but my memories of Planescape need some refreshing before I can give direct examples...

Um yeah....

That's not philosophy. Those are themes.

Also, there are movies which have those themes and then some. As I said, Waking Life or try the much easier (but still hard to comprehend) Ghost in the Shell movies.

They are only themes because I did not spoil the story man... plus I am forgetting all the little details that make up the Planescape philosophy... by the way Ghost in the Shell is a terrible movie... very pedestrian honestly... if you want a good story and philosophy in anime go watch Paranoia Agent or Monster seriously... those just stomp all over GiTs. The philosophy in Planescape is multifaceted... but ultimately the meanings in the game can be interpreted in different ways... which now that I think about it is probably the biggest philosophy behind the game because the tagline (what can change the nature of a man) is intentionallynot even answered during the game... but seriously man don't hate until you have played... because you have no idea what you are talking about until then...

Ok whatever about Planescape. I'm done with it.

But you seem to think that complexity and eccentricities are what make entertainment "better".

Paranoia Agent is in no way better than Ghost in the Shell in terms of philosophy. Story, perhaps, because I believe GitS's story is more than a train for the philosophy to ride in.

But you don't just sit and watch GitS 1 or 2 once or twice and then call it a day. It takes a long time to dig what Oshii is trying to put forth to us, and then after that, the questions he wants us to ask start arising as we answer them. Pedestrian.... :lol:. No one's giving you "cool points" for not conforming to the relatively popular.

Paranoia Agent is more catered towards the Asian/Japanese people. GitS is universal. It's a social commentary on the future, whereas Paranoia Agent is social commentary about Asia or Japan or whatever (read about it on Wikipedia. It doesn't give you much though).

I've heard about Monster; I haven't seen it. But my friend is in love with it, which probably means it's full of literary allusions -- not philsophy.

And besides both of those were series adaptions, not film adaptions.

GitS has both of them.

And if anyone "understood" GitS through one or two sittings, they're either extremely intelligent, or they're lying, or they're ignorant. It's like the Matrix, except even more painful.

why didnt anyone say Mafia yet ?

obiously the best

[QUOTE="naval"]

[QUOTE="FlockofSpagheti"]Planescape Torment is the best... it is the best out there by far...ardylicious

I totally agree

The problem with this is that most people on here have never played Planetscape torment. So to fire it up as one of the best stories is making the kiddies go " Oh no FF is better as we prefer Japanese weirdness with effeminate characters and people with bug eyes."

Besides if you make the story to complex the console kiddies will get horribly confused. They like their games with an image and japanese cartoons are full of eye candy.

Watch where you're going with that.

The Japanese are probably more complex than you'll ever be.

As for eye candy..... didn't it occur to you that anime uses a lot of visual symbols?

just go buy planescape torment already frozen liquid

its only like 5-10 bucks and it was made in 1999 so it will run on any computer, no upgrading necessary......

just go buy planescape torment already frozen liquid

its only like 5-10 bucks and it was made in 1999 so it will run on any computer, no upgrading necessary......

tidus222

Sure, I'll just go right to EB Games and.... oh, it's not there. Lost into oblivion because it failed miserably.

I'll go grab it off a friend. But to be honest, I can't really be bothered. I've already made up in my mind what the best stories I've ever seen are. All mediums, all IPs get the same treatment, and it would wreck if I gave Planescape another chance.

Marathon

Halo

Half-Life (1 and 2)

Off the top of me head.

Ok whatever about Planescape. I'm done with it.

But you seem to think that complexity and eccentricities are what make entertainment "better".

Paranoia Agent is in no way better than Ghost in the Shell in terms of philosophy. Story, perhaps, because I believe GitS's story is more than a train for the philosophy to ride in.

But you don't just sit and watch GitS 1 or 2 once or twice and then call it a day. It takes a long time to dig what Oshii is trying to put forth to us, and then after that, the questions he wants us to ask start arising as we answer them. Pedestrian.... :lol:. No one's giving you "cool points" for not conforming to the relatively popular.

Paranoia Agent is more catered towards the Asian/Japanese people. GitS is universal. It's a social commentary on the future, whereas Paranoia Agent is social commentary about Asia or Japan or whatever (read about it on Wikipedia. It doesn't give you much though).

I've heard about Monster; I haven't seen it. But my friend is in love with it, which probably means it's full of literary allusions -- not philsophy.

And besides both of those were series adaptions, not film adaptions.

GitS has both of them.

And if anyone "understood" GitS through one or two sittings, they're either extremely intelligent, or they're lying, or they're ignorant. It's like the Matrix, except even more painful.

FrozenLiquid

GitS is actually extremely simplistic. Like you said, it's the Matrix, mainly. The whole point is questioning "what it means to be real andhuman", but it does so in such a stupid and generic way. Oooohhhh... what is reality... now that is deep. Look, I can be deep by questioning what humanity and reality mean, too! The movie is just pretentious crap,made obvious bythe part where there is maybe a 5 minute montage of the city with some very annoying chanting.The funniest part is that the main character spends most of it naked due to the most pathetic excuse ever in a movie. If you honestly though there was more to this movie than a small, sad cry to seem "cutting edge" by showing us a "morally questionablefuture where humanity has been upgraded", I feel sorry for you. Posthumanism is an extremely generic concept, and it has been done to death so many times in the same way that I just cannot stand it any more.I didn't see the second movie, but honestly, I don't think I could stomache it after the first. Paranoia Agent and Monster areso many millions of times better in terms of philosophy, story and just about everything else, that I cannot even begin to describe it.

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

FrozenLiquid

Hang on - the people who say that it is the best RPG ever almost always say so because of its excellent storyline (ok, and the dialogue-influenced customisation, but that ties in with the storytelling).

...and Planescape: Torment is one of those few games that tries to avoid cliches. While it does use DnD rules, there isn't a single elf, dwarf, orc, goblin, dragon, sword, castle, monarch, etc. in sight. Hell, there aren't even that many humans in the game. Most of the characters you meet are both highly original and bizarre.

For example, possible party members include - a foulmouthed floating skull; a Githzerai 'warrior-priest' doubting in his own beliefs; a gutter-dwelling, brash, half-demon thief; an uncontrollable pyromaniac pyromancer; a civilised succubus that runs a perfectly respectible 'intellectual brothel'; a rogue robot that has lost its purpose in the multiverse; and an enforcer of the law so focused on dishing out justice that he hasn't noticed that he died centuries ago.

[QUOTE="tidus222"]

just go buy planescape torment already frozen liquid

its only like 5-10 bucks and it was made in 1999 so it will run on any computer, no upgrading necessary......

FrozenLiquid

Sure, I'll just go right to EB Games and.... oh, it's not there. Lost into oblivion because it failed miserably.

I'll go grab it off a friend. But to be honest, I can't really be bothered. I've already made up in my mind what the best stories I've ever seen are. All mediums, all IPs get the same treatment, and it would wreck if I gave Planescape another chance.

I cannot even begin to describe how ridiculous this statement is.

Favourites

Half Life's(love the way they present it)

Halo's(dont care what people say these games have great stories!!)

Max Payne(didnt play all of it, but of what i played the story was awsome!!:D)

prey(bad game but pretty good story)

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"][QUOTE="tidus222"]

just go buy planescape torment already frozen liquid

its only like 5-10 bucks and it was made in 1999 so it will run on any computer, no upgrading necessary......

FlockofSpagheti

Sure, I'll just go right to EB Games and.... oh, it's not there. Lost into oblivion because it failed miserably.

I'll go grab it off a friend. But to be honest, I can't really be bothered. I've already made up in my mind what the best stories I've ever seen are. All mediums, all IPs get the same treatment, and it would wreck if I gave Planescape another chance.

I cannot even begin to describe how ridiculous this statement is.

I'll reply to your GitS bullcrap argument in a minute, but all I have to say is this:

I do have a life. I barely find time to play games. The closest I can get to playing games most of the time is coming on here to talk about them while I write scripts. I play only a couple of hours of LOTRO every few days. The rest I work my ass off to get where I want to be. I watch films, I study films, I write films, I work out hard enough to be put in front of films. Perhaps if I had the time a lot of you guys seem to have (playing games and talking about them every week), then you can call that statement ridiculous. But quite frankly, I'm heading in the right direction, and I have no desire to turn back right now. It's all coming to me just as I imagined, and i like it.

I don't know what you found ridiculous about that statement. That Planescape failed commercially; that I don't want to give Planescape some time before other priorities. Honestly, I just don't know what the hell I said that's ridiculous.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Ah, alas, there's only people saying "This is the best RPG ever". The closest I've come to is someone saying "Best storyline in a RPG ever". Then again I'm not too fond of D&D. They ripped off Lord of the Rings. So unimaginative.

Planeforger

Hang on - the people who say that it is the best RPG ever almost always say so because of its excellent storyline (ok, and the dialogue-influenced customisation, but that ties in with the storytelling).

...and Planescape: Torment is one of those few games that tries to avoid cliches. While it does use DnD rules, there isn't a single elf, dwarf, orc, goblin, dragon, sword, castle, monarch, etc. in sight. Hell, there aren't even that many humans in the game. Most of the characters you meet are both highly original and bizarre.

For example, possible party members include - a foulmouthed floating skull; a Githzerai 'warrior-priest' doubting in his own beliefs; a gutter-dwelling, brash, half-demon thief; an uncontrollable pyromaniac pyromancer; a civilised succubus that runs a perfectly respectible 'intellectual brothel'; a rogue robot that has lost its purpose in the multiverse; and an enforcer of the law so focused on dishing out justice that he hasn't noticed that he died centuries ago.

Yeah sorry if I'm coming off a bit "angry" towards Planescape. It's just that with very little time on my hands, and people going "OMG you haven't played this? Get lost.", it gets very annoying very fast.

[QUOTE="FrozenLiquid"]

Ok whatever about Planescape. I'm done with it.

But you seem to think that complexity and eccentricities are what make entertainment "better".

Paranoia Agent is in no way better than Ghost in the Shell in terms of philosophy. Story, perhaps, because I believe GitS's story is more than a train for the philosophy to ride in.

But you don't just sit and watch GitS 1 or 2 once or twice and then call it a day. It takes a long time to dig what Oshii is trying to put forth to us, and then after that, the questions he wants us to ask start arising as we answer them. Pedestrian.... :lol:. No one's giving you "cool points" for not conforming to the relatively popular.

Paranoia Agent is more catered towards the Asian/Japanese people. GitS is universal. It's a social commentary on the future, whereas Paranoia Agent is social commentary about Asia or Japan or whatever (read about it on Wikipedia. It doesn't give you much though).

I've heard about Monster; I haven't seen it. But my friend is in love with it, which probably means it's full of literary allusions -- not philsophy.

And besides both of those were series adaptions, not film adaptions.

GitS has both of them.

And if anyone "understood" GitS through one or two sittings, they're either extremely intelligent, or they're lying, or they're ignorant. It's like the Matrix, except even more painful.

FlockofSpagheti

GitS is actually extremely simplistic. Like you said, it's the Matrix, mainly. The whole point is questioning "what it means to be real andhuman", but it does so in such a stupid and generic way. Oooohhhh... what is reality... now that is deep. Look, I can be deep by questioning what humanity and reality mean, too! The movie is just pretentious crap,made obvious bythe part where there is maybe a 5 minute montage of the city with some very annoying chanting.The funniest part is that the main character spends most of it naked due to the most pathetic excuse ever in a movie. If you honestly though there was more to this movie than a small, sad cry to seem "cutting edge" by showing us a "morally questionablefuture where humanity has been upgraded", I feel sorry for you. Posthumanism is an extremely generic concept, and it has been done to death so many times in the same way that I just cannot stand it any more.I didn't see the second movie, but honestly, I don't think I could stomache it after the first. Paranoia Agent and Monster areso many millions of times better in terms of philosophy, story and just about everything else, that I cannot even begin to describe it.

Wow, you honestly do not know anything about GitS. It's like you watched the movie once and didn't get it. Your comment sounds very much like those that say on IMDb and other movie forums: "I don't get GitS", then when someone explains it to them, they go "Ooohh.... yeah right this is crap. Fools. Go watch Death Note" or something as stupid as that.

And no, GitS is similar, yet different to the Matrix. Another hint as to how you don't know anything about GitS.

"What's it mean to be real and human"..... Don't know who told you that. Probably someone who watched the film because someone else told them. Go watch the film again. And again. And again. Not simplistic, if not you'd be the Mortimer Adler of today, which you are not.

Oh this is the funniest one -- "What is reality" :lol: This isn't the Matrix mate.

And for your information, Ghost in the Shell 2's themes do not continue straight from the first one.

Perhaps you can peruse though Wikipedia just a little more to make it sound like you know something. You know, there's a page on it which glosses over what can be found in the Ghost universe ;).