Bethesda are going to ruin Fallout 3

While this might have been another game for 360/PS3 owners to laugh at the Wii for not getting (look, i'm making it sysem wars compatible here, give me a break ;) ) it would appear that Bethesda think the original games were a 'bit silly':

http://kotaku.com/gaming/silly-billy/fallout-3-trying-to-avoid-silliness-290502.php

Do they not get it? The fact that Fallout was silly was what made it so fun. You know, stuff like finding the bridge keeper from monty python, the knights with their coconuts, the quest about the chicken coop and the giant eggs, becoming a fluffer in a porn movie, the zombies running the power plant and many many more.

What else will he think is 'silly'? Groin shots and eye shots have already gone and it looks like they want this to turn into more of a tactical Gears than a Fallout sequal :(.

My best guess as to why they are doing this is that errr Bluray read speeds are too slow to incorporate humor into the game and a lack of a standard HDD on the 360 means they couldn't fit groin shots onto the disk.

It doesn't help that the large rpg environment concept of The Elder Scrolls series became obsolete with the advent of the mmorpg, and that is all Bethesda RPG's ever had going for them.

This is already another Brotherhood of Steel in my mind. Fallout died with Black Isle, I am afraid. My RPG optimism at the moment is aimed towards CD Projekt.

No whales in the desert? :(

It really sucks that they aren't gonna have silly stuff. and they say they are gonna develop F3 as if they made the first two. :roll:

bethesda has been making worse and worse titles for years now. They may get acclaim but they sure arent what old school fans want.Cali3350

Oblivion received critical acclaim for the absolute worst reason; because it was made casual for gamers who would not otherwise play a deep and involving RPG.

We've been saying this since Bethesda bought Fallout three years ago.

...but that article is new, and it is actually good news. Bethesda doesn't have the talent to write funny/clever dialogue, so its good to hear that they won't even attempt to do so (assuming that no humour is better than poorly written humour).

*edit*

No whales in the desert? :(

Harbadakus

Good point - does this mean that there won't be a crapload of pop-culture references (like this HHGTTG reference)?

We've been saying this since Bethesda bought Fallout three years ago.

...but that article is new, and it is actually good news. Bethesda doesn't have the talent to write funny/clever dialogue, so its good to hear that they won't even attempt to do so (assuming that no humour is better than poorly written humour).

*edit*

[QUOTE="Harbadakus"]

No whales in the desert? :(

Planeforger

Good point - does this mean that there won't be a crapload of pop-culture references (like this HHGTTG reference)?

I'm guessing it won't as that would probably be termed 'silly'. I guess the thing that annoys me most is that they said 'we will try and stick faithfully to the ambiance of the first 2 games' and then mere weeks later are telling us they want to avoid 'siliness' in a series that was built on it *sigh*.

Several game of E3's beg to differ.braydee1234

[QUOTE="braydee1234"]Several game of E3's beg to differ.gingerdivid

is that a bad thing really?

Oblivion was shunned by gaming snobbery. Fact is, it was a great RPG game with dissapointing combat. That's it. Just because a casual gamer can pick up a game doesn't make it bad. The making of a great game is that it's easy to pick up and play, but difficult to master.

Bethesda died after Daggerfall, I don't any scenario were this can benefit the Fallout series. gingerdivid

huh, that's strange seeing as morrowind is one of the greatest RPG's of all time.

Several game of E3's beg to differ.braydee1234

Yeah, considering no one got to actually play the game I find that I need to take these awards with a pinch of salt. I mean I WANT Fallout 3 to be amazing, the first 2 were probably my all time favourite games, but with comments like this from the devs I'm seriously concerned.

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="braydee1234"]Several game of E3's beg to differ.braydee1234

is that a bad thing really?

Oblivion was shunned by gaming snobbery. Fact is, it was a great RPG game with dissapointing combat. That's it. Just because a casual gamer can pick up a game doesn't make it bad. The making of a great game is that it's easy to pick up and play, but difficult to master.

No, Oblvivion was shunned because they launched it with a broken character system that is still not fixed on 360 to this day. In fact I have to mod the hell out of it on PC just to make the damn thing playable. Morrowind was a piece of brilliance but Oblivion became completely consolified (new word kids!) and lost something in the process.

The reviews were brilliant because on the surface it is a great game. Only when you are 30-40 hours in do the glaring flaws become obvious and the reviewers never played that far before writting.

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="braydee1234"]Several game of E3's beg to differ.braydee1234

is that a bad thing really?

Oblivion was shunned by gaming snobbery. Fact is, it was a great RPG game with dissapointing combat. That's it. Just because a casual gamer can pick up a game doesn't make it bad. The making of a great game is that it's easy to pick up and play, but difficult to master.

Less skills, Less quests, less factions, no houses, NPC's lacked character (Divayth Fyr FTW?), Quests made decisions for you (the only decision you had to make was if you wanted to start the main quest or not), the compass told you where to go and destroyed exploration which was a huge part of Morrowind, the leveling system was terrible making the game hardly rewarding, Guilds don't conflict, the story was flawed Tamriel was allegedly being invaded by oblivion (aka a land of linear dungeons) and everybody was going about thier daily lives oblivious to the fact that thier lives are in jeapordy, interface was poor, enviroments lacked variety, poor lore, poor culture.

Oblivion was an awful RPG, a great action game maybe?

Oblivion was definately not an action game, while it may have had less of alot of things, do you think perhaps on the whole it managed to find the even keel?

and another response; how is the character system broken?

[QUOTE="braydee1234"]

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="braydee1234"]Several game of E3's beg to differ.gingerdivid

is that a bad thing really?

Oblivion was shunned by gaming snobbery. Fact is, it was a great RPG game with dissapointing combat. That's it. Just because a casual gamer can pick up a game doesn't make it bad. The making of a great game is that it's easy to pick up and play, but difficult to master.

Less skills, Less quests, less factions, no houses, NPC's lacked character (Divayth Fyr FTW?), Quests made decisions for you (the only decision you had to make was if you wanted to start the main quest or not), the compass told you where to go and destroyed exploration which was a huge part of Morrowind, the leveling system was terrible making the game hardly rewarding, Guilds don't conflict, the story was flawed Tamriel was allegedly being invaded by oblivion (aka a land of linear dungeons) and everybody was going about thier daily lives oblivious to the fact that thier lives are in jeapordy, interface was poor, enviroments lacked variety, poor lore, poor culture.

Oblivion was an awful RPG, a great action game maybe?

The world of Oblivion was so lovingly crafted that I really wanted to like it. Hell I even played it for about 60 hours over various characters and modded it to bits in order to make it workable for the classes I wanted to create...but still the points you mention are a large part of what kills the immersion for me.

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"]Bethesda died after Daggerfall, I don't any scenario were this can benefit the Fallout series. Juggernaut140

huh, that's strange seeing as morrowind is one of the greatest RPG's of all time.

Oblivion was definately not an action game, while it may have had less of alot of things, do you think perhaps on the whole it managed to find the even keel?

and another response; how is the character system broken?

braydee1234

Try levelling a mage, or indeed any character, without focusing on HP's. Spells just did not scale well enough and if you picked the wrong skills at the start you would often end up levelling faster than your HP pool grew in relation to monster damage etc.

There was little point to things like light armour when it was best just to level heavy armour to the point where you were master and didnt suffer any penalties anyway.

If you took alchemy as a main skill it was possible to level up with it so fast that you gimped your character badly (+5 or less in all the wrong areas).

Bows were underpowered compared to melee weapons. Many of the birthsigns were either over or under-powered so only a couple of them made any sense at all.

Oh I could go on and on as there were sooo many it's not funny.

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="braydee1234"]Several game of E3's beg to differ.braydee1234

is that a bad thing really?

Oblivion was shunned by gaming snobbery. Fact is, it was a great RPG game with dissapointing combat. That's it. Just because a casual gamer can pick up a game doesn't make it bad. The making of a great game is that it's easy to pick up and play, but difficult to master.

Oh go and play a good RPG.

[QUOTE="Juggernaut140"]

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"]Bethesda died after Daggerfall, I don't any scenario were this can benefit the Fallout series. gingerdivid

huh, that's strange seeing as morrowind is one of the greatest RPG's of all time.

I actually agree with you about Daggerfall. Could you please change your avatar and signature though?

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="braydee1234"]

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="braydee1234"]Several game of E3's beg to differ.Stonin

is that a bad thing really?

Oblivion was shunned by gaming snobbery. Fact is, it was a great RPG game with dissapointing combat. That's it. Just because a casual gamer can pick up a game doesn't make it bad. The making of a great game is that it's easy to pick up and play, but difficult to master.

Less skills, Less quests, less factions, no houses, NPC's lacked character (Divayth Fyr FTW?), Quests made decisions for you (the only decision you had to make was if you wanted to start the main quest or not), the compass told you where to go and destroyed exploration which was a huge part of Morrowind, the leveling system was terrible making the game hardly rewarding, Guilds don't conflict, the story was flawed Tamriel was allegedly being invaded by oblivion (aka a land of linear dungeons) and everybody was going about thier daily lives oblivious to the fact that thier lives are in jeapordy, interface was poor, enviroments lacked variety, poor lore, poor culture.

Oblivion was an awful RPG, a great action game maybe?

The world of Oblivion was so lovingly crafted that I really wanted to like it. Hell I even played it for about 60 hours over various characters and modded it to bits in order to make it workable for the classes I wanted to create...but still the points you mention are a large part of what kills the immersion for me.

I think people are confusing what they and a tiny minority want with what people at large want. Bethesda not making an exact replica of fallout 2 does not for most people mean they are ruining the game. cakeorrdeath

Fallout 1 & 2 revolved around player choice, exploration and socialization. Sub-quests felt like genuine mechanics of the world. Cities had corrupt governments and even more corrupt contenders for government, and the player could align with whichever side he or she chose.

Oblivion, on the other hand, had slightly more depth than Diablo 2. Except in 3D!

I think people are confusing what they and a tiny minority want with what people at large want. cakeorrdeath

Bethesda certainly aren't - they're appealing to the masses, not to the fans of the actual series.

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"]I think people are confusing what they and a tiny minority want with what people at large want. Bethesda not making an exact replica of fallout 2 does not for most people mean they are ruining the game. Lilac_Benjie

Fallout 1 & 2 revolved around player choice, exploration and socialization. Sub-quests felt like genuine mechanics of the world. Cities had corrupt governments and even more corrupt contenders for government, and the player could align with whichever side he or she chose.

Oblivion, on the other hand, had slightly more depth than Diablo 2. Except in 3D!

I have played both many times over. And you are seriously under selling oblivion.

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"]I think people are confusing what they and a tiny minority want with what people at large want. Bethesda not making an exact replica of fallout 2 does not for most people mean they are ruining the game. cakeorrdeath

Fallout 1 & 2 revolved around player choice, exploration and socialization. Sub-quests felt like genuine mechanics of the world. Cities had corrupt governments and even more corrupt contenders for government, and the player could align with whichever side he or she chose.

Oblivion, on the other hand, had slightly more depth than Diablo 2. Except in 3D!

I have played both many times over. And you are seriously under selling oblivion.

I agree that Oblivion wasn't THAT bad but come on, they did totally strip it down compared to their other franchises. Fallout was all about humour and this guy just doesn't seem to get that. I guess I just have to ignore the name and look at it as a brand new franchise now.

I agree that Oblivion wasn't THAT bad but come on, they did totally strip it down compared to their other franchises. Fallout was all about humour and this guy just doesn't seem to get that. I guess I just have to ignore the name and look at it as a brand new franchise now.

Stonin

Oblivions main issue for me was the whole world levelling as you did. And the guy didn't say he was going to strip out the humour from fallout just that he wasn't going to make it silly.

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"]I think people are confusing what they and a tiny minority want with what people at large want. Bethesda not making an exact replica of fallout 2 does not for most people mean they are ruining the game. cakeorrdeath

Fallout 1 & 2 revolved around player choice, exploration and socialization. Sub-quests felt like genuine mechanics of the world. Cities had corrupt governments and even more corrupt contenders for government, and the player could align with whichever side he or she chose.

Oblivion, on the other hand, had slightly more depth than Diablo 2. Except in 3D!

I have played both many times over. And you are seriously under selling oblivion.

Oblivion is...

• One part offline MMORPG.
• One part broken stealth action game.
• One part generic hack 'n' slash RPG, with less enemies to hack at.
• One part WWF design your own wrestler.
• One part crap puzzle game replacing all social dialogue, that wouldn't even score well if it was on a mobile phone and attached to a crap gameshow licence.

Oblivion is...

• One part offline MMORPG.
• One part broken stealth action game.
• One part generic hack 'n' slash RPG, with less enemies to hack at.
• One part WWF design your own wrestler.
• One part crap puzzle game replacing all social dialogue, that wouldn't even score well if it was on a mobile phone and attached to a crap gameshow licence.

Lilac_Benjie

Oblivion.....

• is AAA title from dozens of publications.

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]

Oblivion is...

• One part offline MMORPG.
• One part broken stealth action game.
• One part generic hack 'n' slash RPG, with less enemies to hack at.
• One part WWF design your own wrestler.
• One part crap puzzle game replacing all social dialogue, that wouldn't even score well if it was on a mobile phone and attached to a crap gameshow licence.

cakeorrdeath

Oblivion.....

• is overrated.

Fixed.

Lets think of some redeeming factors of Oblivion. *scratches head*

Dungeons: Daggerfalls dungeons were huge and took hours to get through, Bethesda in an attempted to solve the issue made Morrowinds dungeons as linear as possible. Oblivion is something in between. Yes, they may of got a little repetitive and yes Morrowind had a greater variety of different types of dungeons. Even if the leveled loot is underwhelming when you finally finish, the actual dungeons were somewhat improved.

Combat: The system was better, even though there was less weapons, less armour types and the staffs were practically rocket launchers. Fundamentally the combat was better.

Oblivion had some reremberable quests, like Pale pass, the Heist and whodunit..... they are the ones that stuck out over a sea of mediocrity.

Bigger world: Although it didn't seem like it and the world lacked substance in comparison to Morrowind.

Every word was in speech: Even though it compromised character in every NPC.

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]

Oblivion is...

• One part offline MMORPG.
• One part broken stealth action game.
• One part generic hack 'n' slash RPG, with less enemies to hack at.
• One part WWF design your own wrestler.
• One part crap puzzle game replacing all social dialogue, that wouldn't even score well if it was on a mobile phone and attached to a crap gameshow licence.

cakeorrdeath

Oblivion.....

• is AAA title from dozens of publications.

Bethesda died after Daggerfall, I don't any scenario were this can benefit the Fallout series. gingerdivid

[QUOTE="Lilac_Benjie"]

[QUOTE="cakeorrdeath"]I think people are confusing what they and a tiny minority want with what people at large want. Bethesda not making an exact replica of fallout 2 does not for most people mean they are ruining the game. cakeorrdeath

Fallout 1 & 2 revolved around player choice, exploration and socialization. Sub-quests felt like genuine mechanics of the world. Cities had corrupt governments and even more corrupt contenders for government, and the player could align with whichever side he or she chose.

Oblivion, on the other hand, had slightly more depth than Diablo 2. Except in 3D!

I have played both many times over. And you are seriously under selling oblivion.

Hey, i think you are underselling diablo. i had much more fun with diablo, but i could not bring my self to finish oblivion. i could find nothing attractive about the game ( besides graphics for which i don't care verey much). world, characters, story (if we can call it a story) etc all were disaapointing.

That was a feeble rebuttal, actually state what you liked about Oblivion. We are fully aware of Oblivions acclaim. Oblivion is a good game and done many right things that Morrowind did wrong but I found it lost a lot of appeal in the process. gingerdivid

I did like Oblivion (though not as much as morrowind). You maybe fully aware of Oblivions acclaim but Lilac is acting like it scrapes the bottom of the barrel.

I never played daggerfall, but I have played some FPRPG from that era such as might and magic, and others. Basically I just wanted to say this: anyone saying Morrowind is a better game than Oblivion deserves to be smacked upside the head with a wet fish. I bought Morrowing about 5 years ago, tried playing it a half-dozen times, and eventually gave up. Then I got a 360, and Oblivion, and played the living daylights out of it. I probably know just about everything there is to know on that game. So i figured 'what the heck, i'll go back and try out Morrowind again'. Well, I did, for about a week. Forced myself to play this game, despite the fact it loves to kill me every 5 minutes or so, despite the fact that 3/4's of the monsters are diseased or blighted so you're always catching something and there's no simple solution like a temple to pray at to remedy your status ailments, despite the fact even that it's magic and melee systems are busted. Couldn't do it, I gave up again, as much as I want to play Morrowing I just can't do it. It sucks, big time. So, in conclusion;

Oblivion>>>>>Morrowind and I don't care what you elitist hermits say otherwise.

THETRUEDOZAH

Hey, i thing you are underselling diablo. i had much more fun with diablo, but i could not bring my self to finish oblivion. i could find nothing attractive about the game ( besides graphics for which i don't care verey much). world, characters, story (if we can call it a story) etc all were disaapointing.

naval

I too prefer diablo it is one of my favorite games ever, but its appeal is its simplicity.

I have played both many times over. And you are seriously under selling oblivion.Lilac_Benjie

Oblivion is...

• One part offline MMORPG.
• One part broken stealth action game.
• One part generic hack 'n' slash RPG, with less enemies to hack at.
• One part WWF design your own wrestler.
• One part crap puzzle game replacing all social dialogue, that wouldn't even score well if it was on a mobile phone and attached to a crap gameshow licence.

I enjoy most roleplaying games, even the really heavily criticized ones like Ultima's 8 & 9 and Deux Ex: Invisible War. But Oblivion is trash. I really tried to get into it, but the world is so utterly boring and unconvincing, and the roleplaying mechanics are fundamentally broken and completely shallow.

This is precisely why i think i could not enjoy oblivion. they tried to do too many things and all of them were seemed half baked. fallout 3 really seems to be following its footstep, i have lost almost all hope and seeing oblivion, i will not be able to rely on the reviews also.

Lets think of some redeeming factors of Oblivion. *scratches head*

Dungeons: Daggerfalls dungeons were huge and took hours to get through Bethesda in an attempted to sove the issue made Morrowinds dungeons as linear as possible. Oblivion is something in between. Yes, they may of got a little repeitive and yes Morrowind had a greater variety of different types of dungeons. Even if the leveled loot is underwhelming when you finally finish, the actual dungeons were somewhat improved.

Combat: The system was better, even though there was less weapons, less armour types and the staffs were pratically rocket launchers. Fundamentally the combat was better.

Oblivion had some reremberable quests, like Pale pass, the Heist and whodunit..... they are the ones that stuck out over a sea of mediocrity.

Bigger world: Although it didn't seem like it and the world lacked substance in comparison to Morrowind.

Every word was in speech: Even though it compromised character in every NPC.

gingerdivid

I agree.

Except I'd still favor more in Morrowind. The dungeons in Morrowind were actually mysterious and most of them featured a concept of "Risk=Reward". You'd never know what demented creature would be around the corner, or maybe you'd run into a skooma bandit who was hiding out. Often you'd get huge rewards out of dungeons - as long as you know where to look. I've explored most of the dungeons, and none of them were identical (save for a few). In Oblivion, I've run into many dungeons that were exactly the same as others I've already explored. They were simply boring.

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="THETRUEDOZAH"]

I never played daggerfall, but I have played some FPRPG from that era such as might and magic, and others. Basically I just wanted to say this: anyone saying Morrowind is a better game than Oblivion deserves to be smacked upside the head with a wet fish. I bought Morrowing about 5 years ago, tried playing it a half-dozen times, and eventually gave up. Then I got a 360, and Oblivion, and played the living daylights out of it. I probably know just about everything there is to know on that game. So i figured 'what the heck, i'll go back and try out Morrowind again'. Well, I did, for about a week. Forced myself to play this game, despite the fact it loves to kill me every 5 minutes or so, despite the fact that 3/4's of the monsters are diseased or blighted so you're always catching something and there's no simple solution like a temple to pray at to remedy your status ailments, despite the fact even that it's magic and melee systems are busted. Couldn't do it, I gave up again, as much as I want to play Morrowing I just can't do it. It sucks, big time. So, in conclusion;

Oblivion>>>>>Morrowind and I don't care what you elitist hermits say otherwise.

THETRUEDOZAH