Bethesda are going to ruin Fallout 3

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"]

Lets think of some redeeming factors of Oblivion. *scratches head*

Dungeons: Daggerfalls dungeons were huge and took hours to get through, Bethesda in an attempted to solve the issue made Morrowinds dungeons as linear as possible. Oblivion is something in between. Yes, they may of got a little repetitive and yes Morrowind had a greater variety of different types of dungeons. Even if the leveled loot is underwhelming when you finally finish, the actual dungeons were somewhat improved.

Combat: The system was better, even though there was less weapons, less armour types and the staffs were practically rocket launchers. Fundamentally the combat was better.

Oblivion had some reremberable quests, like Pale pass, the Heist and whodunit..... they are the ones that stuck out over a sea of mediocrity.

Bigger world: Although it didn't seem like it and the world lacked substance in comparison to Morrowind.

Every word was in speech: Even though it compromised character in every NPC.

Platearmor_6

Personaly I prefer the dungeons if they take hours to do and you can get lost in them. Kinda of gives the game a very adventurous feel, I mean it brings alot more into the game as far as decision making is concerned, having to decide what to take with you, when running low on supplies trying to decide whether to go back and try and find your way out, or keep venturing forth. I also would have like to have seen this great length in a mission is levels like Pale Pass, it makes it seem like something that will take a dozen hours or so to complete and really overhypes it, and then when you go and attempt it, your in and out intime for diner.

But I know these opinions aren't shared by some casuals.

Speaking of Pale Pass, that was practically the biggest dungeon in Oblivion. That pretty much speaks for itself :)

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Morrowind is better than oblivion is on somthing, and they know what they are doing, the game looks great so far.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Morrowind is better than oblivion is on somthing, and they know what they are doing, the game looks great so far.

DrAwsomeness

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="MyopicCanadian"]

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]As a hardcore Fallout fan, I'm absolutely disgusted with this elitist attitude you people are taking. 'Bu bu teh Bethesda is teh suck and tehy will ruin Fallout 3!!1'. Get over yourselves. Have you read the previews? It sounds incredible, and the devs have stated REPEATEDLY that they're not going to make the same mistakes they did with Oblivion.Chofee

Can you provide sources for that? Honestly, I'm curious, because if they said something like that it would make my day. Every interview I've seen thus far never mentions anything about Oblivion as a "mistake", which is the problem I have with Bethesda.

It's in last month's GI. And sorry, I'm not risking my account and posting scans. But that article really made me put my doubts aside, stop being such a frothing bigot, and actually become hopeful.

Hopeful? "Abandon all hope ye that enter.." that was written on doors to hell.. Actually, it was:"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", but doesn't matter now.. Let me just ask you something.. You call yourself hardcore fallout fan so i would like you to tell me what do you think made fallout great, and using that, i will tell you why Fallout3 won't be even comperable to it's predecessors. I'm not saying it won't be a good game, i'm only saying that it won't be nearly as good as fallout, or that it won't even be fallout at all.. Sorry, i suddenly started ranting :)

Could you answer please..

The immersion, the way your choices actually affected things, the settings, the story....ALL that is present in Fallout 3, it seems. You people can continue to whine and moan how it's going to be 'teh suck', but I'm not going to be some nastolgic zealot who only looks for faults.

[QUOTE="Platearmor_6"][QUOTE="gingerdivid"]

Lets think of some redeeming factors of Oblivion. *scratches head*

Dungeons: Daggerfalls dungeons were huge and took hours to get through, Bethesda in an attempted to solve the issue made Morrowinds dungeons as linear as possible. Oblivion is something in between. Yes, they may of got a little repetitive and yes Morrowind had a greater variety of different types of dungeons. Even if the leveled loot is underwhelming when you finally finish, the actual dungeons were somewhat improved.

Combat: The system was better, even though there was less weapons, less armour types and the staffs were practically rocket launchers. Fundamentally the combat was better.

Oblivion had some reremberable quests, like Pale pass, the Heist and whodunit..... they are the ones that stuck out over a sea of mediocrity.

Bigger world: Although it didn't seem like it and the world lacked substance in comparison to Morrowind.

Every word was in speech: Even though it compromised character in every NPC.

gingerdivid

Personaly I prefer the dungeons if they take hours to do and you can get lost in them. Kinda of gives the game a very adventurous feel, I mean it brings alot more into the game as far as decision making is concerned, having to decide what to take with you, when running low on supplies trying to decide whether to go back and try and find your way out, or keep venturing forth. I also would have like to have seen this great length in a mission is levels like Pale Pass, it makes it seem like something that will take a dozen hours or so to complete and really overhypes it, and then when you go and attempt it, your in and out intime for diner.

But I know these opinions aren't shared by some casuals.

Speaking of Pale Pass, that was practically the biggest dungeon in Oblivion. That pretty much speaks for itself :)

Well something that I found took down Oblivions replay value was the fact the story leads you to all the biggest discoveries so there a lack of incentive to keep going after finishing the main plot in the interest of exploring. I mean they should have had more places like Pale Pass, more things in the snowy mountains to, rather than just a huge lot of nothing. There should have been bodies of mountain climbers with diarys that talk of hidden ruins and clues on how to get to them. But no keep ALL the interesting places strickly for the main plot.

It's in last month's GI. And sorry, I'm not risking my account and posting scans. But that article really made me put my doubts aside, stop being such a frothing bigot, and actually become hopeful.Verge_6

[QUOTE="Chofee"]

Hopeful? "Abandon all hope ye that enter.." that was written on doors to hell.. Actually, it was:"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", but doesn't matter now.. Let me just ask you something.. You call yourself hardcore fallout fan so i would like you to tell me what do you think made fallout great, and using that, i will tell you why Fallout3 won't be even comperable to it's predecessors. I'm not saying it won't be a good game, i'm only saying that it won't be nearly as good as fallout, or that it won't even be fallout at all.. Sorry, i suddenly started ranting :)

Could you answer please..

Verge_6

The immersion, the way your choices actually affected things, the settings, the story....ALL that is present in Fallout 3, it seems. You people can continue to whine and moan how it's going to be 'teh suck', but I'm not going to be some nastolgic zealot who only looks for faults.

Bethesda bought the ip fully knowing that it had a dedicated following. They bought Fallout because people already knew about the series and it would be easier to promote the game. If it was their intention to make a vastly different game from Fallout why would they use the same ip? Don't get upset at fans for wanting a sequel true to the series. Personally, I'm waiting a little longer to see gameplay footage to judge the game, but from what I've heard and seen so far I'm sceptical.

Immersive...HA! Bethesda's abortion looks as Immersive as a kiddy pool. If Fallout 3 is going to have Oblivion's "immersiveness," then that's just another nail in the coffin.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]It's in last month's GI. And sorry, I'm not risking my account and posting scans. But that article really made me put my doubts aside, stop being such a frothing bigot, and actually become hopeful.Pariah_001

If you are unable to actually provide proof, then don't even bother trying to make such sweeping statements. I've read that article and nowhere did they use the word "mistake." i.e. They don't feel there's anything wrong with Oblivion (when they should).

It's this disgusting filth that I am PRECISELY talking about. How would you know how immersive it is when we hardly know anything about it? And where did I say that that statement was in the article?

Fallout 3 is going to suck, because its on the 360 .iNeedFreedom

do you ever stop?

its not going to be anything like fallout 1 or 2 but i dont think they are going to ruin it. it seems they are trying to freshin it up a bit for the younger games who havnt played fallout 1 or 2.mattyomo99

In other words they're 'casualising' - which is basically the same as saying 'ruining it'.

[QUOTE="mattyomo99"]its not going to be anything like fallout 1 or 2 but i dont think they are going to ruin it. it seems they are trying to freshin it up a bit for the younger games who havnt played fallout 1 or 2.Planeforger

In other words they're 'casualising' - which is basically the same as saying 'ruining it'.

Tell that to the Rainbow Six franchise.

[QUOTE="DrAwsomeness"]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Morrowind is better than oblivion is on somthing, and they know what they are doing, the game looks great so far.

gingerdivid

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="mattyomo99"]its not going to be anything like fallout 1 or 2 but i dont think they are going to ruin it. it seems they are trying to freshin it up a bit for the younger games who havnt played fallout 1 or 2.Verge_6

In other words they're 'casualising' - which is basically the same as saying 'ruining it'.

Tell that to the Rainbow Six franchise.

Actually that's a very good example of a game that was very unique that turned generic once the series went casual.

[QUOTE="Chofee"]

Hopeful? "Abandon all hope ye that enter.." that was written on doors to hell.. Actually, it was:"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", but doesn't matter now.. Let me just ask you something.. You call yourself hardcore fallout fan so i would like you to tell me what do you think made fallout great, and using that, i will tell you why Fallout3 won't be even comperable to it's predecessors. I'm not saying it won't be a good game, i'm only saying that it won't be nearly as good as fallout, or that it won't even be fallout at all.. Sorry, i suddenly started ranting :)

Could you answer please..

Verge_6

The immersion, the way your choices actually affected things, the settings, the story....ALL that is present in Fallout 3, it seems. You people can continue to whine and moan how it's going to be 'teh suck', but I'm not going to be some nastolgic zealot who only looks for faults.

Immersion, choices that actually affected gameplay, the story.. Exactly the same things Oblivion was supposed to have, isn't that funny.. Here is some light reading for you.. And also, you forgot to mention one thing.. Dialogue.. And if you played Morrowind or Oblivion you would know why i mentioned dialogue..

[QUOTE="gingerdivid"][QUOTE="DrAwsomeness"]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Morrowind is better than oblivion is on somthing, and they know what they are doing, the game looks great so far.

Makari

[QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="mattyomo99"]its not going to be anything like fallout 1 or 2 but i dont think they are going to ruin it. it seems they are trying to freshin it up a bit for the younger games who havnt played fallout 1 or 2.Verge_6

In other words they're 'casualising' - which is basically the same as saying 'ruining it'.

Tell that to the Rainbow Six franchise.

I grew up playing the series (own every singe one + expansion - up to raven shield), and then to see lockdown, followed by vegas butcher the series angers me.

As soon as I saw an R6 character with corn-row + tipped hair, diving through a window - wearing no helmet or glasses, gun blazing- in an R6 3 - Xbox advert - I had a feeling that the series would be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator.

Godammit I miss the real R6 games.

At least the SWAT series has stayed true, and fills the void....

------

Hell I can hack how much Ghost Recon has changed, but I CANNOT hack what has happened to R6. Its a f***ing disgrace.:x

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Chofee"]

Hopeful? "Abandon all hope ye that enter.." that was written on doors to hell.. Actually, it was:"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", but doesn't matter now.. Let me just ask you something.. You call yourself hardcore fallout fan so i would like you to tell me what do you think made fallout great, and using that, i will tell you why Fallout3 won't be even comperable to it's predecessors. I'm not saying it won't be a good game, i'm only saying that it won't be nearly as good as fallout, or that it won't even be fallout at all.. Sorry, i suddenly started ranting :)

Could you answer please..

iunderstand

The immersion, the way your choices actually affected things, the settings, the story....ALL that is present in Fallout 3, it seems. You people can continue to whine and moan how it's going to be 'teh suck', but I'm not going to be some nastolgic zealot who only looks for faults.

Bethesda bought the ip fully knowing that it had a dedicated following. They bought Fallout because people already knew about the series and it would be easier to promote the game. If it was their intention to make a vastly different game from Fallout why would they use the same ip? Don't get upset at fans for wanting a sequel true to the series. Personally, I'm waiting a little longer to see gameplay footage to judge the game, but from what I've heard and seen so far I'm sceptical.

You answered your own question. They bought the brand and the setting knowing about its cult following but are completely changing the type of game and style of humour. It's like your favourite brand of sauce coming out with a new flavour. Sure it looks similar, is packaged similar but tastes totally different.

'

Bethesda is a single entity, not a group of companies. fix the thread title.Big_T-Mac

Umm what? Bethesada are a development studio consisting of many developers. Bethesda (as in the developers, plural) are going to (currently in the process of but haven't yet) ruin (you know, screw it up) Fallout 3 (a very well liked computer game).

Nothing wrong with the title but you should perhaps use a capital after a full stop. Fix your post;).

[QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="mattyomo99"]its not going to be anything like fallout 1 or 2 but i dont think they are going to ruin it. it seems they are trying to freshin it up a bit for the younger games who havnt played fallout 1 or 2.skrat_01

In other words they're 'casualising' - which is basically the same as saying 'ruining it'.

Tell that to the Rainbow Six franchise.

I grew up playing the series (own every singe one + expansion - up to raven shield), and then to see lockdown, followed by vegas butcher the series angers me.

As soon as I saw an R6 character with corn-row + tipped hair, diving through a window - wearing no helmet or glasses, gun blazing- in an R6 3 - Xbox advert - I had a feeling that the series would be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator.

Godammit I miss the real R6 games.

At least the SWAT series has stayed true, and fills the void....

------

Hell I can hack how much Ghost Recon has changed, but I CANNOT hack what has happened to R6. Its a f***ing disgrace.:x

Yer the R6 series used to be great. Its shame because there are things from Vegas(Rappeling and so on) that could have really added to it if the series had stayed true to its original image.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"][QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="Planeforger"]

[QUOTE="mattyomo99"]its not going to be anything like fallout 1 or 2 but i dont think they are going to ruin it. it seems they are trying to freshin it up a bit for the younger games who havnt played fallout 1 or 2.Platearmor_6

In other words they're 'casualising' - which is basically the same as saying 'ruining it'.

Tell that to the Rainbow Six franchise.

I grew up playing the series (own every singe one + expansion - up to raven shield), and then to see lockdown, followed by vegas butcher the series angers me.

As soon as I saw an R6 character with corn-row + tipped hair, diving through a window - wearing no helmet or glasses, gun blazing- in an R6 3 - Xbox advert - I had a feeling that the series would be dumbed down for the lowest common denominator.

Godammit I miss the real R6 games.

At least the SWAT series has stayed true, and fills the void....

------

Hell I can hack how much Ghost Recon has changed, but I CANNOT hack what has happened to R6. Its a f***ing disgrace.:x

Yer the R6 series used to be great. Its shame because there are things from Vegas(Rappeling and so on) that could have really added to it if the series had stayed true to its original image.

BAH Ubi, bring back red storm and make a real R6 already!

So, because a game isn't exactly like its precessors, it is automatically trash? And if things change, it's 'dumbed down for the casuals'? This isn't only elitism, but it's flat-out selfishness as well. Why would one NOT want other people besides the hardcore followers to enjoy a series? I thought Vegas helped revitalized the series. It's one of the highest rated RB6 games, it's selling well, people enjoy it...why must people hate it for not being EXACTLY like its predecessors, which didn't score as well?

After reading some of the poster's reactions, it seems that they WANT Fallout 3 to fail, no matter what. This is simply revolting. They take delight in the very thought.

[QUOTE="Chofee"][QUOTE="Verge_6"][QUOTE="MyopicCanadian"]

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]As a hardcore Fallout fan, I'm absolutely disgusted with this elitist attitude you people are taking. 'Bu bu teh Bethesda is teh suck and tehy will ruin Fallout 3!!1'. Get over yourselves. Have you read the previews? It sounds incredible, and the devs have stated REPEATEDLY that they're not going to make the same mistakes they did with Oblivion.Verge_6

Can you provide sources for that? Honestly, I'm curious, because if they said something like that it would make my day. Every interview I've seen thus far never mentions anything about Oblivion as a "mistake", which is the problem I have with Bethesda.

It's in last month's GI. And sorry, I'm not risking my account and posting scans. But that article really made me put my doubts aside, stop being such a frothing bigot, and actually become hopeful.

Hopeful? "Abandon all hope ye that enter.." that was written on doors to hell.. Actually, it was:"Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate", but doesn't matter now.. Let me just ask you something.. You call yourself hardcore fallout fan so i would like you to tell me what do you think made fallout great, and using that, i will tell you why Fallout3 won't be even comperable to it's predecessors. I'm not saying it won't be a good game, i'm only saying that it won't be nearly as good as fallout, or that it won't even be fallout at all.. Sorry, i suddenly started ranting :)

Could you answer please..

The immersion, the way your choices actually affected things, the settings, the story....ALL that is present in Fallout 3, it seems. You people can continue to whine and moan how it's going to be 'teh suck', but I'm not going to be some nastolgic zealot who only looks for faults.

I believe the problem here is that Bethesda said the same things about Oblivion, how your choices will affect many things, etc etc. I'm not saying that a game should never be updated, a version of Fallout in a 3D world would be cool, but I must say I would have more faith in Bethesda if they did this after Morrowind then after releasing Oblivion.

So, because a game isn't exactly like its precessors, it is automatically trash? And if things change, it's 'dumbed down for the casuals'? This isn't only elitism, but it's flat-out selfishness as well. Why would one NOT want other people besides the hardcore followers to enjoy a series? I thought Vegas helped revitalized the series. It's one of the highest rated RB6 games, it's selling well, people enjoy it...why must people hate it for not being EXACTLY like its predecessors, which didn't score as well?

After reading some of the poster's reactions, it seems that they WANT Fallout 3 to fail, no matter what. This is simply revolting. They take delight in the very thought.

Verge_6

There is an old adage that really does apply here; If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I don't want it to fail, i've never said I wanted it to fail but I have read that guys comments and I have played Oblivion. If Fallout ends up ANYTHING like Oblivion then it will have failed, in my eyes at least. Frankly I don't give a crap if they sell a gazillion copies to kids who have never played Fallout before because sales =/= good games *cough* Transformers *cough*.

Bethesda are quality developers, anyone interested needs to have faith, because noone else is going to continue the franchise name, Interplay took a dirt nap.Danthegamingman

They certainlyare quality developers but they have changed their ethos. They used to cater to a sector of the market that was actually quite niche and were doing well at finding a balance between depth and accessability in a game. Then they decided to take Oblivion to the mass market, design it around a console and port it to the PC with a really shoddy interface (the exact same one as on consoles but played with KB/M). Essentially they turned their back on the people that got them where they were and sold out to the lowest common denominator.

Is this being a bit elitist? Sure it is, but thats not always a bad thing.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

So, because a game isn't exactly like its precessors, it is automatically trash? And if things change, it's 'dumbed down for the casuals'? This isn't only elitism, but it's flat-out selfishness as well. Why would one NOT want other people besides the hardcore followers to enjoy a series? I thought Vegas helped revitalized the series. It's one of the highest rated RB6 games, it's selling well, people enjoy it...why must people hate it for not being EXACTLY like its predecessors, which didn't score as well?

After reading some of the poster's reactions, it seems that they WANT Fallout 3 to fail, no matter what. This is simply revolting. They take delight in the very thought.

Stonin

There is an old adage that really does apply here; If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I don't want it to fail, i've never said I wanted it to fail but I have read that guys comments and I have played Oblivion. If Fallout ends up ANYTHING like Oblivion then it will have failed, in my eyes at least. Frankly I don't give a crap if they sell a gazillion copies to kids who have never played Fallout before because sales =/= good games *cough* Transformers *cough*.

I wasn't accusing you of wanting it to fail. If anything, you're on of the more sensible people who are concerned for this game's future. I'm referring to posters like Pariah_001 who seem to be wanting it to tank soley so they can trash Bethesda.

Yes, if Fallout 3 is like Oblivion, I will be SORELY disappointed. But, after reading numerous articles, I think we canat least have confidence in it.

While this might have been another game for 360/PS3 owners to laugh at the Wii for not getting (look, i'm making it sysem wars compatible here, give me a break ;) ) it would appear that Bethesda think the original games were a 'bit silly':

http://kotaku.com/gaming/silly-billy/fallout-3-trying-to-avoid-silliness-290502.php

Do they not get it? The fact that Fallout was silly was what made it so fun. You know, stuff like finding the bridge keeper from monty python, the knights with their coconuts, the quest about the chicken coop and the giant eggs, becoming a fluffer in a porn movie, the zombies running the power plant and many many more.

What else will he think is 'silly'? Groin shots and eye shots have already gone and it looks like they want this to turn into more of a tactical Gears than a Fallout sequal :(.

My best guess as to why they are doing this is that errr Bluray read speeds are too slow to incorporate humor into the game and a lack of a standard HDD on the 360 means they couldn't fit groin shots onto the disk.

Stonin

actually...if you read the OXM hands on preview, they shoot a mutant in the eye and he falls to the ground and his eye rolls out.

There was also an article saying that they were fine with the first Fallout, and the sequel to that, but I believe the 3rd game was just too over the top. I'm not freaking out about it. The game will still be amazing. And it will still have some humor. Just not that "high brow" humor that you like :roll:

[QUOTE="Stonin"]

While this might have been another game for 360/PS3 owners to laugh at the Wii for not getting (look, i'm making it sysem wars compatible here, give me a break ;) ) it would appear that Bethesda think the original games were a 'bit silly':

http://kotaku.com/gaming/silly-billy/fallout-3-trying-to-avoid-silliness-290502.php

Do they not get it? The fact that Fallout was silly was what made it so fun. You know, stuff like finding the bridge keeper from monty python, the knights with their coconuts, the quest about the chicken coop and the giant eggs, becoming a fluffer in a porn movie, the zombies running the power plant and many many more.

What else will he think is 'silly'? Groin shots and eye shots have already gone and it looks like they want this to turn into more of a tactical Gears than a Fallout sequal :(.

My best guess as to why they are doing this is that errr Bluray read speeds are too slow to incorporate humor into the game and a lack of a standard HDD on the 360 means they couldn't fit groin shots onto the disk.

KAS3Y_JAM3Z

actually...if you read the OXM hands on preview, they shoot a mutant in the eye and he falls to the ground and his eye rolls out.

There was also an article saying that they were fine with the first Fallout, and the sequel to that, but I believe the 3rd game was just too over the top. I'm not freaking out about it. The game will still be amazing. And it will still have some humor. Just not that "high brow" humor that you like :roll:

The third game wasn't really Fallout except in name. It was called Fallout Tactics and is probably the lamest attempt at a cash-in i've ever seen :P. It wasn't even really over the top, just really, really bad!

and yet, in this thread I have already said I preferred Daggerfall and I thought Morrowind was dumbed down in comparison, try reading before making clueless assumptions. gingerdivid

So, because a game isn't exactly like its precessors, it is automatically trash? And if things change, it's 'dumbed down for the casuals'? This isn't only elitism, but it's flat-out selfishness as well. Why would one NOT want other people besides the hardcore followers to enjoy a series? I thought Vegas helped revitalized the series. It's one of the highest rated RB6 games, it's selling well, people enjoy it...why must people hate it for not being EXACTLY like its predecessors, which didn't score as well?

After reading some of the poster's reactions, it seems that they WANT Fallout 3 to fail, no matter what. This is simply revolting. They take delight in the very thought.

Verge_6

You could easily introduce newbies to a more true rainbow 6 game - all that is required is some adjustments, and less of a learning curve. Hell I still have freinds who are almost PC illiterate and they are playing through Rouge Spear on PC. Same goes for other friends who played through Raven Shield - and I wouldent ever pick them as tactical FPS players.

While you could argue it 'revitialised' the series after the trash that was Lockdown, I could beg to differ, that in the process they have ruined what made the series what it is.

I never said its a bad game, its just NOT true Rainbow 6 - and what made the series what it, is gone...

Hell even the Wikepedia article sums the change up well:

"Rainbow Six and its sequels defined the tactical shooter genre, forcing players to focus more time and effort on stealth, teamwork, and tactics rather than on sheer firepower. With some of the more recent releases, however, the game has taken on more of a "mainstream" first-person shooter approach in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience by moving away from the tactical planning aspect that made the game popular in the first place, partly due to rising game development costs."

No R6 isnt R6 anymore.

Now im not comparing this to Fallout 3 - Quite frankly I dont know if Bethseda's work will be for better or worse, and all I can do is speculate........

As for 'harcore followers' should need apply.. Well that logic fails. There have been 3 real R6 games on PC, each with multiple expansion packs. Obviusly the series had a large enough user base, and enough profit comming from the PC platform to warrant all those sequals and expansions.

And R6 vegas scored the Same as Raven Shield....That isnt what you would call an improvement.

No, the console R6 should stay as it is, im all for that, it suits the platform better, but the drastic changing of the core fundementals - that were ALREADY extremelly solid, and proven to have worked very well, had been thrown out the door, in favour of a port.

Like I said unlike R6, I could hack the change in Ghost Recon, because the developers re-built the game for a PC audience - that was much more true to the original (I own every ghost recon / graw on PC, and graw on 360) - to cater to the PC gaming audience - and it was still profitable.

That alone is another primary example of what should have been done with R6.

I never said its a bad game, its just NOT true Rainbow 6 - and what made the series what it, is gone...

Hell even the Wikepedia article sums the change up well:

"Rainbow Six and its sequels defined the tactical shooter genre, forcing players to focus more time and effort on stealth, teamwork, and tactics rather than on sheer firepower. With some of the more recent releases, however, the game has taken on more of a "mainstream" first-person shooter approach in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience by moving away from the tactical planning aspect that made the game popular in the first place, partly due to rising game development costs."

No R6 isnt R6 anymore.

skrat_01

Makes me cry everytime :( how Rainbow six got pwned. Might as well call it team rambo vegas.

Fallout 1 and 2 are two fo my fav rpgs ever and i hope this fallout3 is at least decent, i would hate for it to be a big letdown.kozzy1234

Approach with it an open mind and try not to expect a traditional fallout game and it should be good. That's what I'm going to do.

I am worried and exited at the same time.

I really hope they dont rape the Fallout universe....

edit*

Geez I already posted here.

This is an old thread, my stance has changed.

I've acknowledged that this wont stay true to the series, but really, isometric CRPG's are a thing of the past. Fallout 3 isn't a change for the better though, however if I play under the jaded fallout fans mindset, it'll suppress my enjoyment of the game. So, I'll enjoy it in the knowledge that it's a free roaming, action game with a few good RPG elements.

I think Fallout deserved to die with dignity.

This console game is just a perversion, it makes me sad to see the Fallout title on trash like this. I really don't have faith in Bathesda to do it any justice. Their style of RPG just doesn't work with some like Fallout.

[QUOTE="Pariah_001"]Immersive...HA! Bethesda's abortion looks as Immersive as a kiddy pool. If Fallout 3 is going to have Oblivion's "immersiveness," then that's just another nail in the coffin.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]It's in last month's GI. And sorry, I'm not risking my account and posting scans. But that article really made me put my doubts aside, stop being such a frothing bigot, and actually become hopeful.Verge_6

If you are unable to actually provide proof, then don't even bother trying to make such sweeping statements. I've read that article and nowhere did they use the word "mistake." i.e. They don't feel there's anything wrong with Oblivion (when they should).

It's this disgusting filth that I am PRECISELY talking about. How would you know how immersive it is when we hardly know anything about it? And where did I say that that statement was in the article?

Disgusting filth? Calm down buddy. You doth protest too much.

its not going to be anything like fallout 1 or 2 but i dont think they are going to ruin it. it seems they are trying to freshin it up a bit for the younger games who havnt played fallout 1 or 2.mattyomo99

I don't even really understand why these younger gamers need Fallout then? If they're creating an entirely new game and just using the setting it's not really a sequel. Besides, why does these younger gamers need to play the third game in a series when they probably haven't even heard of or played the previous two. Wouldn't they be just as happy with Armageddon: A Nuclear Roleplaying Game? Why do they need Fallout? If they really want it so bad they can play the freaking games on their PC. The system requirements are a joke.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

So, because a game isn't exactly like its precessors, it is automatically trash? And if things change, it's 'dumbed down for the casuals'? This isn't only elitism, but it's flat-out selfishness as well. Why would one NOT want other people besides the hardcore followers to enjoy a series? I thought Vegas helped revitalized the series. It's one of the highest rated RB6 games, it's selling well, people enjoy it...why must people hate it for not being EXACTLY like its predecessors, which didn't score as well?

After reading some of the poster's reactions, it seems that they WANT Fallout 3 to fail, no matter what. This is simply revolting. They take delight in the very thought.

skrat_01

You could easily introduce newbies to a more true rainbow 6 game - all that is required is some adjustments, and less of a learning curve. Hell I still have freinds who are almost PC illiterate and they are playing through Rouge Spear on PC. Same goes for other friends who played through Raven Shield - and I wouldent ever pick them as tactical FPS players.

While you could argue it 'revitialised' the series after the trash that was Lockdown, I could beg to differ, that in the process they have ruined what made the series what it is.

I never said its a bad game, its just NOT true Rainbow 6 - and what made the series what it, is gone...

Hell even the Wikepedia article sums the change up well:

"Rainbow Six and its sequels defined the tactical shooter genre, forcing players to focus more time and effort on stealth, teamwork, and tactics rather than on sheer firepower. With some of the more recent releases, however, the game has taken on more of a "mainstream" first-person shooter approach in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience by moving away from the tactical planning aspect that made the game popular in the first place, partly due to rising game development costs."

No R6 isnt R6 anymore.

Now im not comparing this to Fallout 3 - Quite frankly I dont know if Bethseda's work will be for better or worse, and all I can do is speculate........

As for 'harcore followers' should need apply.. Well that logic fails. There have been 3 real R6 games on PC, each with multiple expansion packs. Obviusly the series had a large enough user base, and enough profit comming from the PC platform to warrant all those sequals and expansions.

And R6 vegas scored the Same as Raven Shield....That isnt what you would call an improvement.

No, the console R6 should stay as it is, im all for that, it suits the platform better, but the drastic changing of the core fundementals - that were ALREADY extremelly solid, and proven to have worked very well, had been thrown out the door, in favour of a port.

Like I said unlike R6, I could hack the change in Ghost Recon, because the developers re-built the game for a PC audience - that was much more true to the original (I own every ghost recon / graw on PC, and graw on 360) - to cater to the PC gaming audience - and it was still profitable.

That alone is another primary example of what should have been done with R6.

Of course it's Rainbow Six, it has the Rainbow Six logo on it. It might not feel the same, but if Warcraft 3 felt like Warcraft 1 I'd be disappointed :|