[QUOTE="moistsandwich"]Comstock may not have had that child. But here is where the plothole is.....the post credits scene.....if Booker had the baptism before having Anna....Anna shouldn't exist. Booker shouldn't exist either. Ken Levine tried way to hard on his ending and it showed. Um... did you even understand what happened? The Booker they kill (ie, you) makes the decision to accect the baptism before they kill him, meaning the timelines split and he becomes Comstock. These realities end when he is murdered. The Booker at the end rejects the baptism and has Elizabeth. Hence why he's still here.What I want to know is what reason did Booker have for giving up his daughter to a future self? A debt? What debt? I think I understand most of the why and what of everything else in the game, except for the event that sets things in motion.
Also if Booker is Comstock, and Anna is Elizabeth... then why does Comstock need his younger self to give him his own daughter that would already exist for him in his own world?
texasgoldrush
Bioshock Infinite edning and story is a total cop out and unfair (some spoilers)
This topic is locked from further discussion.
[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="moistsandwich"]Comstock may not have had that child. But here is where the plothole is.....the post credits scene.....if Booker had the baptism before having Anna....Anna shouldn't exist. Booker shouldn't exist either. Ken Levine tried way to hard on his ending and it showed. Um... did you even understand what happened? The Booker they kill (ie, you) makes the decision to accect the baptism before they kill him, meaning the timelines split and he becomes Comstock. These realities end when he is murdered. The Booker at the end rejects the baptism and has Elizabeth. Hence why he's still here. and yet its not expalined that way. You are only assuming this. And also, the ending is not only thematically contrived, it is repulsive. Liz murdering Comstock simply clashes with the themes throughout the game, and clashes with her development. For most of the game, there is themes of the effects of sin on one another and even the power of forgiveness (guess how they got into Comstock house), nevermind that Booker, after rescuing Liz, tells her that he does not weant her killing Comstock, basically meaning he does not want her to become like him. Simply put, we don't want Liz murdering people!!!! All this is pissed away in the last 30 seconds where the game says...yeah, lets end the cycle of sin and murder with a sin and murder because we have the end the story and its the only way, not only that...have Liz do it in a creepy and dissonant fashion. Pretty much, Ken Levine wanted a religion is evil message and it shows...and it was forced into the game where it didn't belong. The entire notion that the baptism makes Booker become evil and nationalist is simply a contrivance as well. This is not brought up naturally in the story. Its there because the writer wills it. And they could have avoided this. How? Remember Comstocks backstory in how an visit by an angel told him to build Columbia? Well, why not go back to the point where this happens and stop this. No murder required...and it would show Liz forgiving Comstock. Hell, the ANGEL OF COLUMBIA, perhaps an alternate Elizabeth, should have been the MAIN antagonist. This would have fit the entire narrative FAR better than the contrived, thematically repulsive ending we have now. Forgiveness should end this cycle, not murder.What I want to know is what reason did Booker have for giving up his daughter to a future self? A debt? What debt? I think I understand most of the why and what of everything else in the game, except for the event that sets things in motion.
Also if Booker is Comstock, and Anna is Elizabeth... then why does Comstock need his younger self to give him his own daughter that would already exist for him in his own world?
DarkLink77
I have to wholeheartedly disagree here. Bioshock: Infinite is probably the best story I've every experienced in a game. I guess if you're looking for a super happy ending where everything wraps up in a neat little bow at the end, then you'll be disappointed. I would argue that most great stories feature tragic endings or anti-heroes, and while the very ending is not tragic, it's not necessarily a feel good ending. It's an incredible rumination on religion, guilt, racism, nationalism, and the lengths a man will go to redeem his past. Probably not for everyone but I loved it.
however, the unhappy ending is forced because the writer wills it...not because it came naturally through the story. And this game's story has a LOT of problems.I have to wholeheartedly disagree here. Bioshock: Infinite is probably the best story I've every experienced in a game. I guess if you're looking for a super happy ending where everything wraps up in a neat little bow at the end, then you'll be disappointed. I would argue that most great stories feature tragic endings or anti-heroes, and while the very ending is not tragic, it's not necessarily a feel good ending. It's an incredible rumination on religion, guilt, racism, nationalism, and the lengths a man will go to redeem his past. Probably not for everyone but I loved it.
DenaliStrat1020
Please....Infinite's is flawed both in execution and concept......ME3's was flawed only in execution. Another difference is audience....Bioware fans are more into conservative storytelling, Bioshocks more into mind bending twists....the only thing is that Infinite's plays to the fanbase more. That doesn't mean its good.TexasGoldRush is just mad because Mass Effect 3s ending is complete sh!t compared to Infinites :lol:
Peredith
Here's something I don't quite understand, if someone could explain it to me.
At the end Booker gets drowned by Elizabeth to prevent Comstok's "birth", but wouldn't this just create another universe where he didn't get drowned, making the entire point moot? Or am I missing something?
Here's something I don't quite understand, if someone could explain it to me.
At the end Booker gets drowned by Elizabeth to prevent Comstok's "birth", but wouldn't this just create another universe where he didn't get drowned, making the entire point moot? Or am I missing something?
svenus97
How? There's only one universe where the Baptism that creates Comstock takes place.
I have a question:
What is the significance of the dead body in the trashed lighthouse at the beginning? Who is responsible for the message left on the murdered corpse with its head covered?
Does the way the sky 'sings' before you are flown off to Columbia have any significance? Why do red lights dance from the clouds?
I have a question:
What is the significance of the dead body in the trashed lighthouse at the beginning? Who is responsible for the message left on the murdered corpse with its head covered?Does the way the sky 'sings' before you are flown off to Columbia have any significance? Why do red lights dance from the clouds?
dommeus
There's a note on the map in the lighthouse that says something like "he's on his way, you must stop him". The way I interpreted it, that guy was supposed to be guarding the lighthouse from Booker, but the Luteces had him killed to make sure you got through.
As for the sky singing in the beginning, it's just the machines communicating through music. It's the same notes as the bells you ring to start it. Like how they communicated with the aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Here's something I don't quite understand, if someone could explain it to me.
At the end Booker gets drowned by Elizabeth to prevent Comstok's "birth", but wouldn't this just create another universe where he didn't get drowned, making the entire point moot? Or am I missing something?
svenus97
Well that is not a bad question at all. The idea of a multiverse with infinite possibilities existing somewhat in line with one another would suggest that preventing one Comstock to appear does not prevent them all. She even says so herself. (Something along the lines of "No, killing him won't solve it because there are many more in a million million worlds.")
We do not know if there are infinite worlds that coexist. She makes it seem like she can go 'anywhere she wants' with the rifts, then again she also says it is a form of wish fulfillment. The places she goes to are always partially formed from her mind it seems. The reality you experience is altered by her ability to travel through rifts. Like the people you meet who remember having died. That would not happen if she was simply traveling from 1 dimension to another. No, she changes reality through the rifts.
She kills Booker to prevent Comstock from being made in her reality? But that means Elizabeth would never become Elizabeth either. So she fades away. What is good about that situation?
So what I thought happened is that Elizabeth found out, as she got her powers back by destroying the cyphon, that Booker == Comstock and that he abandoned her as a baby and that he is to blame for her captivity for her whole youth and all the horrible things in Columbia and I think that is simply why she kills him. Not to make anything better, because she could have just walked away. She could have left and visited/made another world. No she kills him because of what he has done.
The only other possibility I see is that she somehow figured out how the rifts change the world and that by killing you there would never be a Comstock anywhere. Which is kind of what they hint at with the very last scene that seems to imply that you are back in your office with Anna. But then I don't understand how the rifts work or how she figured this out.
[QUOTE="svenus97"]
Here's something I don't quite understand, if someone could explain it to me.
At the end Booker gets drowned by Elizabeth to prevent Comstok's "birth", but wouldn't this just create another universe where he didn't get drowned, making the entire point moot? Or am I missing something?
Peredith
How? There's only one universe where the Baptism that creates Comstock takes place.
Yes if that is true it would explain everything. I don't see how she knows that there is only one universe where that happens but it would explain the whole ending.[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="moistsandwich"]Comstock may not have had that child. But here is where the plothole is.....the post credits scene.....if Booker had the baptism before having Anna....Anna shouldn't exist. Booker shouldn't exist either. Ken Levine tried way to hard on his ending and it showed. Um... did you even understand what happened? The Booker they kill (ie, you) makes the decision to accect the baptism before they kill him, meaning the timelines split and he becomes Comstock. These realities end when he is murdered. The Booker at the end rejects the baptism and has Elizabeth. Hence why he's still here. 1. Do you even understand what a Time paradox is? 2. Every choice creates new univiverses so now there should be universes where Elizabeth fails or decides not to kill comstock. 3. With infinite possibilities in one of them Comstock would go back in time and kill booker. 4. Dosen't stop booker from becoming Comstock some other time or way which would happen considering there are infinite possibilities.What I want to know is what reason did Booker have for giving up his daughter to a future self? A debt? What debt? I think I understand most of the why and what of everything else in the game, except for the event that sets things in motion.
Also if Booker is Comstock, and Anna is Elizabeth... then why does Comstock need his younger self to give him his own daughter that would already exist for him in his own world?
DarkLink77
1. Time paradox. 2. Every choice creates new univiverses so now there should be universes where Elizabeth fails or decides not to kill comstock. 3. With infinite possibilities in one of them Comstock would go back in time and kill booker. 4. Dosen't stop booker from becoming Comstock some other time or way which would happen considering there are infinite possibilities.onnabushiShe isn't simply travelling to other dimensions though, it doesn't seem that way. (The people who get stuck with two memories and her mother who isn't really her mother.) If there would be infinite possibilities played out anywhere and she could travel to them at will, the only question would not be how to act but where to travel. There would be no repercussions for anything morally because without you doing anything bad you would do anything bad anyway, it would just be somewhere else. If she was only concerned about reaching the ideal dimension (as she should be in that case) there was no reason to act (or kill Booker) at all.
Sorry I responded before your edit.
[QUOTE="dommeus"]
I have a question:
What is the significance of the dead body in the trashed lighthouse at the beginning? Who is responsible for the message left on the murdered corpse with its head covered?Does the way the sky 'sings' before you are flown off to Columbia have any significance? Why do red lights dance from the clouds?
the_bi99man
There's a note on the map in the lighthouse that says something like "he's on his way, you must stop him". The way I interpreted it, that guy was supposed to be guarding the lighthouse from Booker, but the Luteces had him killed to make sure you got through.
As for the sky singing in the beginning, it's just the machines communicating through music. It's the same notes as the bells you ring to start it. Like how they communicated with the aliens in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
It's weird that they give you a gun at the very beginning. Presumably they knew that you would lose it in the launch, so why give you it anyway, if not to take care of the guard they already murdered for you? I mean, if they thought Booker could handle himself well enough to help bring down Comstock and his troops/the vox in the alternate universe, then why take out a single guard at the lighthouse?
She isn't simply travelling to other dimensions though, it doesn't seem that way. (The people who get stuck with two memories and her mother who isn't really her mother.) If there would be infinite possibilities played out anywhere and she could travel to them at will, the only question would not be how to act but where to travel. There would be no repercussions for anything morally because without you doing anything bad you would do anything bad anyway, it would just be somewhere else. If she was only concerned about reaching the ideal dimension (as she should be in that case) there was no reason to act (or kill Booker) at all.
Sorry I responded before your edit.KungfuKitten
I think this is a very important point. What Elizabeth does in beyond just travelling through dimensions (and time). She can affect the dimension she goes, she kind of rewrites people there. You already gave the example of the people that remember being dead, if we were justing going from a world to other, this should not happen. Another example is the vary last baptism scene. I already pointed out that we just don't go there, but our Booker "overwrites" that world Booker.
Another thing: Bioshock universes are defined partially by constants, meaning there are decisions which do not change. For example Booker giving Anna away, in every universe he gives her away, there isn't one in which he raises her daughter as a normal parent. With that in mind, the ending could be seen as Elizabeth destroying a variable (Booker accepting or refusing the baptism) and leaving only a constant.
[QUOTE="KungfuKitten"]
She isn't simply travelling to other dimensions though, it doesn't seem that way. (The people who get stuck with two memories and her mother who isn't really her mother.) If there would be infinite possibilities played out anywhere and she could travel to them at will, the only question would not be how to act but where to travel. There would be no repercussions for anything morally because without you doing anything bad you would do anything bad anyway, it would just be somewhere else. If she was only concerned about reaching the ideal dimension (as she should be in that case) there was no reason to act (or kill Booker) at all.
Sorry I responded before your edit.padaporra
I think this is a very important point. What Elizabeth does in beyond just travelling through dimensions (and time). She can affect the dimension she goes, she kind of rewrites people there. You already gave the example of the people that remember being dead, if we were justing going from a world to other, this should not happen. Another example is the vary last baptism scene. I already pointed out that we just don't go there, but our Booker "overwrites" that world Booker.
Another thing: Bioshock universes are defined partially by constants, meaning there are decisions which do not change. For example Booker giving Anna away, in every universe he gives her away, there isn't one in which he raises her daughter as a normal parent. With that in mind, the ending could be seen as Elizabeth destroying a variable (Booker accepting or refusing the baptism) and leaving only a constant. Yes something along those lines seems to be the correct way of interpreting this game's story.
I thought it was interesting but a hell of a lot of things weren't explained. What the hell were vigors? Obviously they were Columbia's version of lasmids, but plasmids in the world of Rapture were an integral part of the story and the city -- here they were just kind of there without explanation. You'd think a city with such class tension as Columbia would worry about this kind of power falling into the hands of the Vox, especially when it is the colored who are employed at Fink's vigor factory, but instead, we rarely even see them used by anybody in the world. Maybe not a plothole, but one of a few unexplained story contrivances.
What was the songbird as well? It's origin is never explained. I thought in the end sequence we might discover in one of the world's Elizabeth takes us to, that it was a time deformed version of Booker, doing whatever it takes to protect his daughter, but nothing is even revealed about the mysterious automaton.
Also, where do the Leuteces and Elizabeth get their powers? I know the Leuteces created the machine allowing for inter-dimensional travel, but that doesn't explain their ability to up and vanish on a whime as they had Elizabeth's powers, which aren't explained either. I'd have to assume her finger existing in two dimensions allows her to control space and time, but that's kind of a stretch for the developer to expect us to assume.
Finally, what was up with that lady in Battleship Bay who recognizes Elizabeth as Anna?
I'm sure a lot of these have been answered in this thread but I still want to discuss it. There are mostly explained in the voxophones. Vigors are there mainly for the gameplay but they do have an acceptable explanation for being there. Fink could use the tear technology to observe Rapture, he stole the plasmid technology and the bid daddy technology (songbird is the same thing as a big daddy). Fink made it for Elizabeth. Who songbird is, it's not revealed, maybe it doesn't matter. I think he's there mostly to tie in the original Bioshock somehow, and he's symbolic because the father/daughter thing comes up a lot in the game. Songbird is like an anti-Booker. Elizabeth got her powers as you say, it's explained in a Voxophone. Fink tried to kill Lutece by sabotaging their machines but they didn't really die as much as they " they were scattered among the possibility universe". The last thing doesn't have anything to do with the main story,the lady is columbia security and is trying to find out Elizabeths name, to see if she has the right person.I thought it was interesting but a hell of a lot of things weren't explained. What the hell were vigors? Obviously they were Columbia's version of lasmids, but plasmids in the world of Rapture were an integral part of the story and the city -- here they were just kind of there without explanation. You'd think a city with such class tension as Columbia would worry about this kind of power falling into the hands of the Vox, especially when it is the colored who are employed at Fink's vigor factory, but instead, we rarely even see them used by anybody in the world. Maybe not a plothole, but one of a few unexplained story contrivances.
What was the songbird as well? It's origin is never explained. I thought in the end sequence we might discover in one of the world's Elizabeth takes us to, that it was a time deformed version of Booker, doing whatever it takes to protect his daughter, but nothing is even revealed about the mysterious automaton.
Also, where do the Leuteces and Elizabeth get their powers? I know the Leuteces created the machine allowing for inter-dimensional travel, but that doesn't explain their ability to up and vanish on a whime as they had Elizabeth's powers, which aren't explained either. I'd have to assume her finger existing in two dimensions allows her to control space and time, but that's kind of a stretch for the developer to expect us to assume.
Finally, what was up with that lady in Battleship Bay who recognizes Elizabeth as Anna?
jamejame
Fink could use the tear technology to observe Rapture, he stole the plasmid technology and the bid daddy technology (songbird is the same thing as a big daddy). Fink made it for Elizabeth. psych2416256I think that requires too much of a leap of faith to just assume Fink got it from Rapture, and more importantly it makes very little sense in a super religious society like Columbia.
In Rapture plasmids made sense given the science oriented nature of that place, but Columbia residence would look at that stuff as borderline witchcraft territory or even satanic in nature given that it's 1912. Plus again we're going to have people we are treating as slaves be the ones responsible for packing this stuff? It's a little silly.
[QUOTE="jamejame"]I'm sure a lot of these have been answered in this thread but I still want to discuss it. There are mostly explained in the voxophones. Vigors are there mainly for the gameplay but they do have an acceptable explanation for being there. Fink could use the tear technology to observe Rapture, he stole the plasmid technology and the bid daddy technology (songbird is the same thing as a big daddy). Fink made it for Elizabeth. Who songbird is, it's not revealed, maybe it doesn't matter. I think he's there mostly to tie in the original Bioshock somehow, and he's symbolic because the father/daughter thing comes up a lot in the game. Songbird is like an anti-Booker. Elizabeth got her powers as you say, it's explained in a Voxophone. Fink tried to kill Lutece by sabotaging their machines but they didn't really die as much as they " they were scattered among the possibility universe". The last thing doesn't have anything to do with the main story,the lady is columbia security and is trying to find out Elizabeths name, to see if she has the right person. Is that really how Vigors came about? I found nearly all of the voxophones but I'm disappointed that I missed that one, sounds insightful.I thought it was interesting but a hell of a lot of things weren't explained. What the hell were vigors? Obviously they were Columbia's version of lasmids, but plasmids in the world of Rapture were an integral part of the story and the city -- here they were just kind of there without explanation. You'd think a city with such class tension as Columbia would worry about this kind of power falling into the hands of the Vox, especially when it is the colored who are employed at Fink's vigor factory, but instead, we rarely even see them used by anybody in the world. Maybe not a plothole, but one of a few unexplained story contrivances.
What was the songbird as well? It's origin is never explained. I thought in the end sequence we might discover in one of the world's Elizabeth takes us to, that it was a time deformed version of Booker, doing whatever it takes to protect his daughter, but nothing is even revealed about the mysterious automaton.
Also, where do the Leuteces and Elizabeth get their powers? I know the Leuteces created the machine allowing for inter-dimensional travel, but that doesn't explain their ability to up and vanish on a whime as they had Elizabeth's powers, which aren't explained either. I'd have to assume her finger existing in two dimensions allows her to control space and time, but that's kind of a stretch for the developer to expect us to assume.
Finally, what was up with that lady in Battleship Bay who recognizes Elizabeth as Anna?
psych2416256
Fink made the Songbird? I missed this as well -- seems like an incredibly advanced piece of architecture for the time, but then again, floating city. I guess it's not too far fetched, but I was under the impression that the songbird was going to be a big mystery, now that I know his simple origin, I'm a bit disappointed.
So it's confirmed to have been the finger then? I can't imagine what else it would be, but if this were the case I'd imagine Booker would have similar powers after dimension hopping. Of course, I suppose this is taking a far too realistic approach to an undeniably Disney game, but he's no doubt been bleeding all over Columbia, in addition to losing the average of 15 hairs a day, and skin particles. I just wish this area of the game were explained better, I suppose, but if body parts in other dimensions is all it takes, Booker should have shown some signs of powers as well -- and at the very least, been immune to the nose-bleeds. I understand why it didn't play out this way though, obviously.
I think that requires too much of a leap of faith to just assume Fink got it from Rapture, and more importantly it makes very little sense in a super religious society like Columbia.[QUOTE="psych2416256"]Fink could use the tear technology to observe Rapture, he stole the plasmid technology and the bid daddy technology (songbird is the same thing as a big daddy). Fink made it for Elizabeth. jg4xchamp
In Rapture plasmids made sense given the science oriented nature of that place, but Columbia residence would look at that stuff as borderline witchcraft territory or even satanic in nature given that it's 1912. Plus again we're going to have people we are treating as slaves be the ones responsible for packing this stuff? It's a little silly. Im not assuming, Fink says that in a voxophone.
[QUOTE="jg4xchamp"]I think that requires too much of a leap of faith to just assume Fink got it from Rapture, and more importantly it makes very little sense in a super religious society like Columbia.[QUOTE="psych2416256"]Fink could use the tear technology to observe Rapture, he stole the plasmid technology and the bid daddy technology (songbird is the same thing as a big daddy). Fink made it for Elizabeth. psych2416256
In Rapture plasmids made sense given the science oriented nature of that place, but Columbia residence would look at that stuff as borderline witchcraft territory or even satanic in nature given that it's 1912. Plus again we're going to have people we are treating as slaves be the ones responsible for packing this stuff? It's a little silly. Im not assuming, Fink says that in a voxophone. Yeah my bad, apparently of the 20 voxophones I never found: they were all the important ones. lol
Just thought of something else that went unanswered. Who is the archangel Comstock is referring to the entire game? How is he able to see the future? Is it the siphon that allows him to control Elizabeth's powers and morph his own future? If so, why does talk about the archangel as his inspiration for Columbia?
Just thought of something else that went unanswered. Who is the archangel Comstock is referring to the entire game? How is he able to see the future? Is it the siphon that allows him to control Elizabeth's powers and morph his own future? If so, why does talk about the archangel as his inspiration for Columbia?
jamejame
Because he was hungry for power. His "prophecies" were bullsh!t, and he knew it. He learned all his "prophecies" by looking through time with the Luteces' machines.
Comstock funded the Lutece's technology then used it to see the (possible) future and do god knows what else. It made him sterile as a side effect. There wasn't any divine interference. I think the quesion weather he actually believed in the Archangel is interesting. He took great care to erase all the evidence of Elizabeths origins. He certainly seemed zealous he might have believed that he was God's propthet, his mind adapting to that reality like Booker thought he was paying off a debt.Just thought of something else that went unanswered. Who is the archangel Comstock is referring to the entire game? How is he able to see the future? Is it the siphon that allows him to control Elizabeth's powers and morph his own future? If so, why does talk about the archangel as his inspiration for Columbia?
jamejame
[QUOTE="jamejame"]Comstock funded the Lutece's technology then used it to see the (possible) future and do god knows what else. It made him sterile as a side effect. There wasn't any divine interference. I think the quesion weather he actually believed in the Archangel is interesting. He took great care to erase all the evidence of Elizabeths origins. He certainly seemed zealous he might have believed that he was God's propthet, his mind adapting to that reality like Booker thought he was paying off a debt. Really an alternate Liz, should have been the main antagonist...to be the one to corrupt Comstock. Tis "Archangel" should of been the villain, born out of Liz's sins (or a split path), like Comstock is to Booker.Just thought of something else that went unanswered. Who is the archangel Comstock is referring to the entire game? How is he able to see the future? Is it the siphon that allows him to control Elizabeth's powers and morph his own future? If so, why does talk about the archangel as his inspiration for Columbia?
psych2416256
People have a point about vigors. It's not about their origins, but the lack of work put to make them part of Comlumbia. Most of the time it feels they only exist fro Booker and the rest of the city totally ignores it. It is the opposite of what we saw on rapture, where plasmids were an strict part of Rapture. You saw its influence everywhere, fro the beginning to the end of the game. On Infinite, how can a society of fanatics and so conservative don't talk about the vigors? It makes no sense something so powerful would not be a huge subjectic of discussions considering their effects and the mentality of the people there. Same thing with the Vox Populi, you would assume controlling the source of vigor would be a top priority for them, but no. It'a like nobody know they exist.
And I cannot answer why. Infinite had a huge development cicle, the people there know what they are doing, why Infinite has some flaws that doesn't match a game of this caliber?
I feel the same way. It doesn't feel quite as well realized as the original. Still an excellent action game, but not quite everything comes full circle.People have a point about vigors. It's not about their origins, but the lack of work put to make them part of Comlumbia. Most of the time it feels they only exist fro Booker and the rest of the city totally ignores it. It is the opposite of what we saw on rapture, where plasmids were an strict part of Rapture. You saw its influence everywhere, fro the beginning to the end of the game. On Infinite, how can a society of fanatics and so conservative don't talk about the vigors? It makes no sense something so powerful would not be a huge subjectic of discussions considering their effects and the mentality of the people there. Same thing with the Vox Populi, you would assume controlling the source of vigor would be a top priority for them, but no. It'a like nobody know they exist.
And I cannot answer why. Infinite had a huge development cicle, the people there know what they are doing, why Infinite has some flaws that doesn't match a game of this caliber?padaporra
The only idea I can think of for why the Vigors aren't more present in the world is that maybe they're still a very new development at the time Booker arrives. They're being shown off at that fair in the beginning, and people are standing around, looking and talking a bit skeptical. Booker might actually be the first person to go all out and drink a bunch of them.
As for Fink getting the technology from Rapture... I'm not too sure about that. I do believe that is a stretch. I found every single voxophone, and I don't remember any of them saying that. They definitely never directly described exactly that happening, and there weren't any that led me to that conclusion, either. If someone knows a specific one they're getting that idea from, I'd like to know.
The only idea I can think of for why the Vigors aren't more present in the world is that maybe they're still a very new development at the time Booker arrives. They're being shown off at that fair in the beginning, and people are standing around, looking and talking a bit skeptical. Booker might actually be the first person to go all out and drink a bunch of them.
As for Fink getting the technology from Rapture... I'm not too sure about that. I do believe that is a stretch. I found every single voxophone, and I don't remember any of them saying that. They definitely never directly described exactly that happening, and there weren't any that led me to that conclusion, either. If someone knows a specific one they're getting that idea from, I'd like to know.
the_bi99man
It's pretty much this for why Vigors aren't more pronounced throughout Columbia, at the beginning of the game fink is try to convince people to go and try it. Also the technology from the future is heavily implied, as fink's brother is stealing music from the future and Fink specifically said the tears made his brother rich and it will to make him rich.
[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]
The only idea I can think of for why the Vigors aren't more present in the world is that maybe they're still a very new development at the time Booker arrives. They're being shown off at that fair in the beginning, and people are standing around, looking and talking a bit skeptical. Booker might actually be the first person to go all out and drink a bunch of them.
As for Fink getting the technology from Rapture... I'm not too sure about that. I do believe that is a stretch. I found every single voxophone, and I don't remember any of them saying that. They definitely never directly described exactly that happening, and there weren't any that led me to that conclusion, either. If someone knows a specific one they're getting that idea from, I'd like to know.
GD1551
It's pretty much this for why Vigors aren't more pronounced throughout Columbia, at the beginning of the game fink is try to convince people to go and try it. Also the technology from the future is heavily implied, as fink's brother is stealing music from the future and Fink specifically said the tears made his brother rich and it will to make him rich.
That isn't an explanation, it's an excuse. Vigors are already everywhere when the game begins. But that is beyond the point. Even if we consider they are new, the repercussions still absent.
[QUOTE="GD1551"]
[QUOTE="the_bi99man"]
The only idea I can think of for why the Vigors aren't more present in the world is that maybe they're still a very new development at the time Booker arrives. They're being shown off at that fair in the beginning, and people are standing around, looking and talking a bit skeptical. Booker might actually be the first person to go all out and drink a bunch of them.
As for Fink getting the technology from Rapture... I'm not too sure about that. I do believe that is a stretch. I found every single voxophone, and I don't remember any of them saying that. They definitely never directly described exactly that happening, and there weren't any that led me to that conclusion, either. If someone knows a specific one they're getting that idea from, I'd like to know.
padaporra
It's pretty much this for why Vigors aren't more pronounced throughout Columbia, at the beginning of the game fink is try to convince people to go and try it. Also the technology from the future is heavily implied, as fink's brother is stealing music from the future and Fink specifically said the tears made his brother rich and it will to make him rich.
That isn't an explanation, it's an excuse. Vigors are already everywhere when the game begins. But that is beyond the point. Even if we consider they are new, the repercussions still absent.
Huh? What do you mean? Outside a select few, no one uses them. It completely fits into context and isn't an excuse, it would actually be more odd to see fink marketing vigors if they were already widely used.
Huh? What do you mean? Outside a select few, no one uses them. It completely fits into context and isn't an excuse, it would actually be more odd to see fink marketing vigors if they were already widely used.
GD1551
I mean the lack of integration between Vigors and Columbia is a flaw of the game. And marketing never stops. Cars are already "widely used" and you don't see the marketing for it stoping.
[QUOTE="GD1551"]
Huh? What do you mean? Outside a select few, no one uses them. It completely fits into context and isn't an excuse, it would actually be more odd to see fink marketing vigors if they were already widely used.
padaporra
I mean the lack of integration between Vigors and Columbia is a flaw of the game. And marketing never stops. Cars are already "widely used" and you don't see the marketing for it stoping.Vigors are applicable to the world of Columbia, but it's obvious Vigors are in the game because Bioshock is in the title and plasmids wouldn't make since in the perfect utopia.
I'm assuming it's because she exists in 2 worlds at once. (her finger)Why does she have super powers then, hes a normal guy..
oh wait ! quantum physics! That explains eveyrthing.
beganoo
Also the technology from the future is heavily implied, as fink's brother is stealing music from the future and Fink specifically said the tears made his brother rich and it will to make him rich.GD1551And he mentioned something about watching a biologist through a tear. That was probably Dr.Tenenbaum.
[QUOTE="beganoo"]I'm assuming it's because she exists in 2 worlds at once. (her finger) which is downright absolutely silly.....Why does she have super powers then, hes a normal guy..
oh wait ! quantum physics! That explains eveyrthing.
harry_james_pot
[QUOTE="GD1551"]Also the technology from the future is heavily implied, as fink's brother is stealing music from the future and Fink specifically said the tears made his brother rich and it will to make him rich.harry_james_potAnd he mentioned something about watching a biologist through a tear. That was probably Dr.Tenenbaum. That is what I grabbed from this as well.
[QUOTE="harry_james_pot"][QUOTE="GD1551"]Also the technology from the future is heavily implied, as fink's brother is stealing music from the future and Fink specifically said the tears made his brother rich and it will to make him rich.Arthas045And he mentioned something about watching a biologist through a tear. That was probably Dr.Tenenbaum. That is what I grabbed from this as well.
Mmm.. I do remember those couple voxophones now. Yeah, I'll buy it. :P
And I do think that the lack of widespread proliferation of Vigors is just because they're a new thing, and never really get a chance to take off before Booker wrecks house. Just the way the salesmen were talking about them at the fair, and the way the people were reacting.. that's the feeling I got immediately from that. That the whole idea of the Vigors was new, maybe even that fair was the first time they'd been publicly marketed. I find that believable. Sits well with me, at least.
you know i am just wondering if booker had a wife? i found a article to help me understand the whole story, but that is the one thing i am curious about. hope that was not some kind of spoiler tryed to be vague
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