Bioware - Once again showing Bethesda how it's done - Poll

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"] Choosing who to kill and what skills to use is not "skill less". I don't really see how WoW's core gameplay is unique in any way to WoW?Jandurin

Yeah, for 3 years.

ThatGuyFromB4

[QUOTE="chrion133"]

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]So you're saying the combat isn't about auto attacking and activating various skills and abilities then?

ThatGuyFromB4

you could say that about tons of games that have completely different mechanics, that arent even in the same genre! and NO, its about positioning your team, controlling enemies, using your aoes at the right time, its very tactical, and the choices you make when building your characters has a huge impact on how you play. Thats like saying isnt zelda OOT just about doing a side roll and spamming the A button when its one of the most loved enjoyed high rated games of all time. Your being condecending about something alot of more advanced gamers get and you dont.

Obnoxious PC elitist claiming he's more advanced than me, there's something new. :roll:

And that whole "choices when building your characters thing" sounds a lot like WoW's talent trees and equipment system.

The core gameplay is WoW. Your character auto attacks, auto blocks, none of your attacks or spells or abilities need to be aimed. Totally skill-less game.

im not an elitest, but if I was that would far surpass being a fool, your quite good at that I can see. I enjoy pro starcraft and big money pro wow arena tournaments, and probably know more about them, them and some FPS games that are the absolutle pinnacle of a test of "skill" gaming has to offer. Ive played and enjoyed twitch skill based games as much as the next guy. But this is about RPG's not those games so why are you bringing them up! your point doesnt make any sense. When it comes to story, character building, difficulty, and combat depth, Dragon Age is a GEM, a brilliant game the like of which only come along every so often. So instead of babbling on about action games in a forum post about RPG's why dont you go get the game and relax and try to enjoy it.

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

Yeah, for 3 years.

Jandurin

you have an action bar....

thats it, the only similarity, the entire games mechanics and style are absolutely nothing like wow.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

Yeah, for 3 years.

you have an action bar....

thats it, the only similarity, the entire games mechanics and style are absolutely nothing like wow.

Dragon age is a pretty good game. However i prefer the style of most bethesda games over bioware.

While I am only 16 hours into Dragon Age, and I think its pretty awesome.

Its not on the same level as Fallout 3.

Bioware is AWESOME because of Mass Effect, DAO is just a nice treat while I wait for Mass Effect 2.

Bioware is my favorite dev of all time but Bethesda is right up there with the quality. A lot of people hateit(and I don't want to argue it here) but Oblivion was an amazing gaming experience for me, flaws and all.

Plus, I am really mad at Bioware with their day one content. Having that quest arrow I can't get rid of at camp pisses me off. At least that added afree storage space to your camp. That almost counts as an apology to me.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

The core gameplay is WoW. Your character auto attacks, auto blocks, none of your attacks or spells or abilities need to be aimed. Totally skill-less game.

ThatGuyFromB4

No one else wants the best of both worlds? I mean for the definitive RPG experience I would always turn to Bioware or Obsidian (formerly Black Isle), but I really want something more from Bioware. Who else would have loved to have a real fully accessible world replacing the simple paper map for Ferelden? I would have loved to walk the path from Lothering to Denerim and see the world in its entirety, instead of being presented by loading screens between each linear encounter and the next one.

Is it too much to ask for a Bethesda type sand box world with the character and story depth of a Bioware world? Please god(aka Bioware/Bethesda) give us that...

However, there is still hope. That hope is called Fallout: New Vegas. A game made by Obsidian (people that made NWN 2 Mask of the betrayer and Kotor 2, and most importantly, the actual creators of Fallout 1 / 2) with the engine and the lore of the Fallout series.

I can't wait for that one.

Fallout 3 was overrated.

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

Yeah, for 3 years.

Jandurin

At least Oblivion didn't have gameplay straight out of the damn 90's.

ThatGuyFromB4

Both companies have gameplay from the 90s.

And the dialog in both is just make up compared Fallout 1 and 2 were it trully mattered.

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"] Choosing who to kill and what skills to use is not "skill less". I don't really see how WoW's core gameplay is unique in any way to WoW?sleepingzzz

Well, the PVP and cooperative aspect of WoW was enough for me to overlook the combat, I can't imagine having any fun with that sort of combat offline though.

As for the spells, I meant more along the line of something like Fireball. In Oblivion, it actually needs to be aimed, if you miss or the enemy moves out of the way, well, aim better. You CAN'T miss in DA. There's just no direct input, you push a key and it automatically damages the enemy no matter what (with the exception of resists and whatever).

Like I said, I get that some people like that sort of playstyle, I just don't. I've been waiting for another great fantasy RPG since Oblivion and I'm disappointed that this isn't it. Not for me anyway.

1) RPGs and 'twitchy gameplay' don't work well often. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

2) RPG's need to include real 'cause and effect' gameplay revolving around how you roleplay your character. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

1) RPGs and 'twitchy gameplay' don't work well often. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

2) RPG's need to include real 'cause and effect' gameplay revolving around how you roleplay your character. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

Kan0nF0dder

[QUOTE="Kan0nF0dder"]

1) RPGs and 'twitchy gameplay' don't work well often. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

2) RPG's need to include real 'cause and effect' gameplay revolving around how you roleplay your character. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

ThatGuyFromB4

[QUOTE="Kan0nF0dder"]

1) RPGs and 'twitchy gameplay' don't work well often. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

2) RPG's need to include real 'cause and effect' gameplay revolving around how you roleplay your character. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

ThatGuyFromB4

[QUOTE="chrion133"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"] Okay. Yeah, the base way your skills work and feel is similar to WoW, but the enemies are different. Well, really, the enemies are just less varied. And obviously, there's no cooperative element. Still, the game feels different too, which couldn't be explained without experiencing it.Jandurin

you have an action bar....

thats it, the only similarity, the entire games mechanics and style are absolutely nothing like wow.

KOTOR had an action bar and it was never once reffered to having similar mechanics to an mmo, the battles in DA are strategic setpieces and plays nothing like WOW. that it shares similarities with diablo, kotor, or baldurs gate sure because it is an evolution of these all time greats. But ive played WOW for 4 years, and am almost complete on my second playthrough of DA, and its a complete mistery to me how anyone (unless fooled by the action bar) can compare WOWs gameplay mechanics to DA. The way combat works, is controlled, and the type of gameplay are so completely different.

[QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]

[QUOTE="Kan0nF0dder"]

1) RPGs and 'twitchy gameplay' don't work well often. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

2) RPG's need to include real 'cause and effect' gameplay revolving around how you roleplay your character. Bioware knows this, Bethesda doesn't.

110million

The core combat mechanics are taken straight from WoW. There are differences and it's not the same experience of course, but the core combat mechanics are the same.

Oblivion's combat needed more depth and hopefully they expand upon it in the next ES, but it was still fun.

i don't know, dragon age seems quite boring and fallout 3 was boring, i'll go with bethsda because oblivion was awesome

Yeah, for 3 years.

I like them both but Bioware is more hit and miss for me.

I loved Mass Effect I and I Mass Effect II is my most anticipated game, but I could not get into KOTOR. I tried KOTOR twice, but I always stop playing shortly after I get off the first planet. I just never could get into KOTOR's combat. Auto-attacking set-up makes me feel disconnected from my character. It reminds me great deal of Final Fantasy 11.

I have not played Dragon Age yet, but the combat looks similar to KOTOR to me, so I am debating whether I should get it or not. I am sure the story is great and I love Song of Fire and Ice series, which is supposed to be one of the inspirations for the game, but I do not know...

Bethesda games have their weak points like repetitive dungeon designs, and less involved stories, but I prefer open world style overall. I just love wondering around and discovering things. It makes me feel like I am THE CHARACTER. When I played KOTOR, I felt more like bystander to the action.

In short, both developrs a good :)

and its a complete mistery to me how anyone (unless fooled by the action bar) can compare WOWs gameplay mechanics to DA

chrion133

I like them both but Bioware is more hit and miss for me.

I loved Mass Effect I and I Mass Effect II is my most anticipated game, but I could not get into KOTOR. I tried KOTOR twice, but I always stop playing shortly after I get off the first planet. I just never could get into KOTOR's combat. Auto-attacking set-up makes me feel disconnected from my character. It reminds me great deal of Final Fantasy 11.

I have not played Dragon Age yet, but the combat looks similar to KOTOR to me, so I am debating whether I should get it or not. I am sure the story is great and I love Song of Fire and Ice series, which is supposed to be one of the inspirations for the game, but I do not know...

Bethesda games have their weak points like repetitive dungeon designs, and less involved stories, but I prefer open world style overall. I just love wondering around and discovering things. It makes me feel like I am THE CHARACTER. When I played KOTOR, I felt more like bystander to the action.

In short, both developrs a good :)

A point has been missed here,since the basic notions of the gameplay of DA are influenced by Baldur´s gate,a bioware game,and not by WOW as some people here state.

If anything,it was WOW who"borrowed"the BG mechanics into their game.

And on the topic,both companies are very good and have great games,although Bioware makes the kind of RPG that I enjoy the most.

If anything,it was WOW who"borrowed"the BG mechanics into their game.

Arach666

[QUOTE="Arach666"]

If anything,it was WOW who"borrowed"the BG mechanics into their game.

Jandurin

Lol, anyone who picks bethesda is a LIAR.

Truth. Sadly, Bethesda games will sell better for some reason. Dragon Age > everything Bethesda has ever done, even Morrowind.

BioShockOwnz

Right as I post this I remember Mass Effect...

Bethesda and Bioware = my 2 favorite devs of all time.

[QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="ThatGuyFromB4"]Bethesda's doing something right apparently considering their last two games have been both critically and commercially successful.

ThatGuyFromB4

The core combat mechanics are taken straight from WoW. There are differences and it's not the same experience of course, but the core combat mechanics are the same.

Oblivion's combat needed more depth and hopefully they expand upon it in the next ES, but it was still fun.

You really need to play DA:O or at least try the combat because it's appalling how clueless you sound in these posts. As a former WOW addict I can honestly say the two games have very little in common.

First off, you do realize that WOW combat mechanics are loosely based on classic D&D mechanics to begin with, don't you? DA doesn't base itself off WOW, but rather D&D, which is why it is so much deeper and more thoroughly satifying, as the devs didn't dumb the combat mechanics down to appease the ADD generation.

Next, you do have to aim spells in DA. If you think otherwise then go ahead and aim that cone of cold into the middle of your group and curse the game as the enemy proceeds to shatter your allies in a single hit. Or better yet, launch a fireball and just kill your party members yourself, saving the enemy the trouble.

Also, last I checked, WOW didn't have flanking positions to worry about. You could run circles around a mob while whittling away their health. There is no combat on the move in DA:O. For ranged, distance plays a huge part, as well on what type of bow you have equipped, in how well archers fare as well. In WOW you either were in range or you weren't and bow type was irrelevant.

In WOW healers could spam heals until they went OOM. In DA:O heals have lengthy cool downs forcing you to make good use of snares, roots and stuns to mitigate the number of opponenet until you can cast another heal on your party.

DA:O also have active abilities that affect the total amount of mana or stamina available in combat. You can have high threat and protection as a tank, but it comes at the cost of having a fraction of the stamina available for stuns and CC. Also, the type of armor worn has a direct affect on the mana/stamina cost of abilities. This forces you to choose between having an extremely hard to kill tank, or having one that may be more vulnerable but better able to control the flow of battle.

You either need to actually play this game or stop making such outlandish and unfounded criticisms.

Truth. Sadly, Bethesda games will sell better for some reason. Dragon Age > everything Bethesda has ever done, even Morrowind.

BioShockOwnz

myke2010

[QUOTE="Gytex"]

I like them both but Bioware is more hit and miss for me.

I loved Mass Effect I and I Mass Effect II is my most anticipated game, but I could not get into KOTOR. I tried KOTOR twice, but I always stop playing shortly after I get off the first planet. I just never could get into KOTOR's combat. Auto-attacking set-up makes me feel disconnected from my character. It reminds me great deal of Final Fantasy 11.

I have not played Dragon Age yet, but the combat looks similar to KOTOR to me, so I am debating whether I should get it or not. I am sure the story is great and I love Song of Fire and Ice series, which is supposed to be one of the inspirations for the game, but I do not know...

Bethesda games have their weak points like repetitive dungeon designs, and less involved stories, but I prefer open world style overall. I just love wondering around and discovering things. It makes me feel like I am THE CHARACTER. When I played KOTOR, I felt more like bystander to the action.

In short, both developrs a good :)

Jandurin

I am glad to hear it. I have not played good fantasy RPG in a while. I will probably give DA a try sometime next year. I still have not finished Borderlands.lol Then, there is Assassin's Creed, GTA:BOGT. Too many games, too little time!

I am glad to hear it. I have not played good fantasy RPG in a while. I will probably give DA a try sometime next year. I still have not finished Borderlands.lol Then, there is Assassin's Creed, GTA:BOGT. Too many games, too little time!

Gytex

I am glad to hear it. I have not played good fantasy RPG in a while. I will probably give DA a try sometime next year. I still have not finished Borderlands.lol Then, there is Assassin's Creed, GTA:BOGT. Too many games, too little time!

[QUOTE="chrion133"]

and its a complete mistery to me how anyone (unless fooled by the action bar) can compare WOWs gameplay mechanics to DA

Jandurin

in DA I move my men around the map and try to position them to use there abilities to take advantage of the enemies like a game of chess, in WOW i run around with my toon sheeping people like a 3rd person action game. Are you using your head here? again, besides the action bar or ability bar whatever you want to call it, there have been tons of games with them that have not for obvious reason, been compared to WOW, because its a completely different kind of game you idiot! objective? are you being serious...

and srry i called you an idiot...I just get frustrated when simple things seem hard to understand for people

[QUOTE="Jandurin"][QUOTE="chrion133"]

and its a complete mistery to me how anyone (unless fooled by the action bar) can compare WOWs gameplay mechanics to DA

in DA I move my men around the map and try to position them to use there abilities to take advantage of the enemies like a game of chess, in WOW i run around with my toon sheeping people like a 3rd person action game. Are you using your head here? again, besides the action bar or ability bar whatever you want to call it, there have been tons of games with them that have not for obvious reason, been compared to WOW, because its a completely different kind of game you idiot! objective? are you being serious...

[QUOTE="chrion133"]

[QUOTE="Jandurin"] maybe because you're not being objectiveJandurin

in DA I move my men around the map and try to position them to use there abilities to take advantage of the enemies like a game of chess, in WOW i run around with my toon sheeping people like a 3rd person action game. Are you using your head here? again, besides the action bar or ability bar whatever you want to call it, there have been tons of games with them that have not for obvious reason, been compared to WOW, because its a completely different kind of game you idiot! objective? are you being serious...

I have a 2200 arena rating right now, and my mage is decked out in heroic lvl togc 25 man gear, and yea ive calmed, just the other dude was ignorant and your adding firepower to his ignorance....srry dude :(

just the other dude was ignorant and your adding firepower to his ignorance....srry dude :(

chrion133

I like both about the same, fallout 3 and mass effect are some of my faviourite games.

Bethesda's problem is they are increasingly dumbing down their games in order to reach a broader audience. Oblivion is very simplistic compared to Morrowind and had less of pretty much everything, but the mainstream audiences loved it; and it didn't help every reviewer seemed to love this inferior RPG to death. I'm glad Bioware hasn't compromised their quality to appeal to none RPG fans, I just hope it paid off in sales; as I have seen these people complaining the game is boring because it doesn't have enough action for them.

I wonder what the next The Elder Scrolls game is going to be like? Considering each TES game has been a process of gradual reduction to save costs. They went as far as to count axes as blunt weapons in Oblivion, god knows what they are going to do to the next game. Fallout 3 was particularly depressing in that you went from struggling to survive in the previous games to being a one man army in Bethesda's version. Low level and no weapons training? Doesn't stop you from killing three super mutants with the weakest energy weapon in the game it seems...

fallout 3 > anything bioware has ever done