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Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.Â
Â
Â
peacebringer
Funny how something is not needed when it isn't on your particular system!
Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs only for the same reason FF7 was 3 CDs and certain PS2 JRPGs like Grandia 3 and Xenosagas 2 and 3 are 2 DVDs: they're heavy on the videoclips. No telling how much Losy Odyssey will take up, but if it uses more than 1 DVD, you'll know the reason. OTOH, the upcoming Mass Effect is packing its single DVD with game data, giving it quite a vast gaming universe for one little disc.@ Ontain
Blue Dragon already uses 3 DVDs, and how many DVDs do you think will Lost Odyssey use?
Kreean
And here's another counterargument for BluRay. If 50GB is so important for gaming, why do programmers have to cram all that into 512MB of memory? And before you say "streaming", you should know that is useless in an online scenario.
PS. There's one good reason to use compression on an optical medium--transfer times. Compared to hard drives, optical drives are real slowpokes. Compressing game data even a little bit (ie. lossless compression) really cuts down on the load time. And decompression is usually very quick and easy for modern processors to pull off.
You're right they should, but Blue Dragon uses already a mixture of CGI and Ingame graphics for cutscenes and it still needs 3 DVDs.KreeanAnd it's because of the cutscenes that BD uses 3 DVDs, just as Final Fantasy 7 used 3 CDs and Xenosagas 2 and 3 use 2 DVDs. Less CGI creates less demand for the space-intensive videoclips, and this reduces the demand for disc space.
Anyway, JRPGs are very linear and thus very span-friendly. And the memory limitation will pit limits on non-linear game bigger than a single DVD. Lair, for example, uses dynamic map loading ("streaming") but because of it has no multiplayer.
SO the more space you have the more things you can put in the game.
Squall_Griver
Â
Yes, and the largest games right now are under 50 gigs... way under. Games don't seem to be getting bigger either. Â
[QUOTE="haols"]The only thing blu-ray does as of now is to allow devs to be lazy with compresion and code-writing. def_mode
ROFL. do u actually encourage developers to compress files? and you know this will downgrade the quality of the game?
If they have space then they dont need to compress.
Its like why would u use vaccuum when we can use our hands to clean?
Actually that's a common misunderstanding. Decompression speed is *much* faster than read speeds (glares at Blu-Ray's low read speed on the PS3) hence, if I can compress data 4-to-1 I would so so, simply to reduce load times and make it easier to actively stream off of the disc. Compression is needed because of other bottlenecks in the system (read speed, limited memory, et cetera) NOT because of a lack of storage space. Compression is used internally in the PS3 all the time - why would you ignore it? Think of compression like the protein folding the Folding@Home PS3 fanboys are always jabbering about - it's a needed tool to allow things to happen within a reasonable amount of space.Ok, your title sucks and that crap you call a post is even worse. Anybody here who isn't a fanboy knows BluRay is just more space, so give it up with this milkage crap. If anyone is getting milked, it's Nintendo fans with the so called "innovative" Wii-mote. Last gen games with a new controller and you call that innovation. lol Yes, it can be fun, but the Wii-mote's usefulness ends at party games.Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.Â
Â
Â
peacebringer
Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.Â
Â
Â
peacebringer
that's your extreme evidence??......ok, i guess you and your awsome argument win:roll:
As of now,
It is clear the Blu-Ray is not needed for games.
Any argument supporting Blu-Ray is self-owned.
When will Blu-Ray be viable?
Prob Next-Next-Gen.
Dm1uciano
Not only is your argument wrong it shows your ignorance.
Sure some games do not need blu-ray. Sure you can compress every game onto a size that will fit a DVD. But at what loss. so go and ask and developer if they would like more space so that they can compress a game less and they will not turn it down. Why? Because it means more goes into the game. They cut less of the things they want in the game. More possible objects in the game with more variety. and with less compression it means better images better sound and less time uncompressing the file so the processor can do more. So you are self owned by your complete lack of knowlegde just like many lemmings on this and other forums. You cry and complain that PS2 is not as powerful as the Xbox now you cry and complain that PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox360 a system that milks you more than sony ever could. They call it the Elite
Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.Â
Â
Â
peacebringer
Your argument fails because it is still too early in the developmental cycle for a game to be produced that even needs that much space. I'd say for a game to take up that much space, wodie, it would probably take up to two years or more to develop that. Also, the PS3's dev kit tools are still very new to a lot of developers, so, guess what? They need time to master and perfect them. If you think the games that are out for the PS3 are alright, just wait until some legitimate time has passed. Also, don't use the Wii as an argument because the PS3 and the Wii aren't even in the same league!
[QUOTE="haols"]The only thing blu-ray does as of now is to allow devs to be lazy with compresion and code-writing. peacebringerand do we really want games from Lazy Developers? Funny I thought the wording should be all blu-ray does is help developers not waste time and resources on developing compression techniques to fit on a disk.
Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.
Â
Â
peacebringer
Â
PS3 is gonna win anyways stop crying. Blu-Ray beats out HD-DVD 3 to 1.
They cut less of the things they want in the game. More possible objects in the game with more variety. and with less compression it means better images better sound and less time uncompressing the file so the processor can do more. So you are self owned by your complete lack of knowlegde just like many lemmings on this and other forums. You cry and complain that PS2 is not as powerful as the Xbox now you cry and complain that PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox360 a system that milks you more than sony ever could. They call it the ElitewiljasSo you're an actual developer?
I can counter your argument with one simple fact: 72Mbit/sec. That's the read speed of the BluRay drive in the PS3. Compared to hard drives (which can easily do three times that rate), that's a joke. Even Fast Ethernet (100Mbit/sec) can beat that on a good day. Fact is, optical media is a slow way to read data. That's one reason why data on any optical medium is preferably compressed. DVD movies are compressed because, totally uncompressed, the raw data of the video would overwhelm even a hard drive. Decompressing is so easy on modern processors they can almost do it in their sleep...at rates that easily exceed the top end of any optical media. Working this way, you transfer data into memory much faster than uncompressed at such a low CPU speed cost that it'd be idiotic not to compress your data.
So you're an actual developer?[QUOTE="wiljas"]They cut less of the things they want in the game. More possible objects in the game with more variety. and with less compression it means better images better sound and less time uncompressing the file so the processor can do more. So you are self owned by your complete lack of knowlegde just like many lemmings on this and other forums. You cry and complain that PS2 is not as powerful as the Xbox now you cry and complain that PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox360 a system that milks you more than sony ever could. They call it the EliteHuusAsking
I can counter your argument with one simple fact: 72Mbit/sec. That's the read speed of the BluRay drive in the PS3. Compared to hard drives (which can easily do three times that rate), that's a joke. Even Fast Ethernet (100Mbit/sec) can beat that on a good day. Fact is, optical media is a slow way to read data. That's one reason why data on any optical medium is preferably compressed. DVD movies are compressed because, totally uncompressed, the raw data of the video would overwhelm even a hard drive. Decompressing is so easy on modern processors they can almost do it in their sleep...at rates that easily exceed the top end of any optical media. Working this way, you transfer data into memory much faster than uncompressed at such a low CPU speed cost that it'd be idiotic not to compress your data.
QFT!! Great post.
I think it's funny to watch cows spew the PS3 BS that they have no idea about.
[QUOTE="def_mode"][QUOTE="haols"]The only thing blu-ray does as of now is to allow devs to be lazy with compresion and code-writing. subrosian
ROFL. do u actually encourage developers to compress files? and you know this will downgrade the quality of the game?
If they have space then they dont need to compress.
Â
Its like why would u use vaccuum when we can use our hands to clean?
Actually that's a common misunderstanding. Decompression speed is *much* faster than read speeds (glares at Blu-Ray's low read speed on the PS3) hence, if I can compress data 4-to-1 I would so so, simply to reduce load times and make it easier to actively stream off of the disc. Compression is needed because of other bottlenecks in the system (read speed, limited memory, et cetera) NOT because of a lack of storage space. Compression is used internally in the PS3 all the time - why would you ignore it? Think of compression like the protein folding the Folding@Home PS3 fanboys are always jabbering about - it's a needed tool to allow things to happen within a reasonable amount of space.Awesome post!
Cows really have no idea about game development. All they spew is Sony PR.
So far both titles that were reproted to use 13- 17 gb of disc space were standard games. RFoM was great but nothing about that game showed evidence of extra disc space, and Motorstorm is actually lacking in features I've seen in dvd racers. I love Blu-Ray movies, but until I see actual iron clad proof, whether content or features, I do not believe the space is being utilized at all.dru26Exacally they want to adapt this BR but no dev is gonna actually fill it up with game content. they'll fill it with CGI and this makes me laugh why CGI in Next gen.
[QUOTE="peacebringer"]Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.
Ericvon71
Funny how something is not needed when it isn't on your particular system!
i can get a blue ray drive for My PC but no games would support it for 10 to 20 years.[QUOTE="Ericvon71"][QUOTE="peacebringer"]Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.
peacebringer
Funny how something is not needed when it isn't on your particular system!
i can get a blue ray drive for My PC but no games would support it for 10 to 20 years. 10-20 years yeah right the format war will be over by the end of this year. Pc makers like Dell Sony are bluray exclusive and ull see almost every new pc with blu-ray drives before 2009. I might get one for my pc when they get cheperDoesn't matter it still takes up the same space on the disc. yes PC game get installed in your harddrive. but i have a Hard drive of 30gb and i have 3 of those games listed on my main hard drive. Most gaming pc's have 120 gb so you telling me in blue ray standards thast only 2 games would fit in my Harddrive..... no one wants huge games likwait. are you using PC games for your examples? don't you download files onto your PC to play them? or do you play them straight from a disc?
sunscorch
[QUOTE="peacebringer"]Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.
Â
Â
cmr_ps3
that's your extreme evidence??......ok, i guess you and your awsome argument win:roll:
Fitting 6 Next Gen titles that your PS3 and 360 can prob barley run isn't evidence? Ok go play your blue ray movies and playing your PS3 ports than fit on one xbox 360 DVD.(All these games require more than 520 ram and thats all ps3 or 360 got so these games would have to be specially tuned to run efficently on the Consoles.[QUOTE="peacebringer"][QUOTE="Ericvon71"][QUOTE="peacebringer"]Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.
Moe_81
Funny how something is not needed when it isn't on your particular system!
i can get a blue ray drive for My PC but no games would support it for 10 to 20 years. 10-20 years yeah right the format war will be over by the end of this year. Pc makers like Dell Sony are bluray exclusive and ull see almost every new pc with blu-ray drives before 2009. I might get one for my pc when they get cheper your messed up at the part where devs flock to it and make there games blue ray onliny they still make games in CD and dvd so there be no real reason to buy it cause no game will need 2 dvd really.You do know over the years games have gotten bigger right? why limit them? anyone who can´t see an advantage in size is just stupid.Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.
peacebringer
[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="def_mode"][QUOTE="haols"]The only thing blu-ray does as of now is to allow devs to be lazy with compresion and code-writing. LosDaddie
ROFL. do u actually encourage developers to compress files? and you know this will downgrade the quality of the game?
If they have space then they dont need to compress.
Â
Its like why would u use vaccuum when we can use our hands to clean?
Actually that's a common misunderstanding. Decompression speed is *much* faster than read speeds (1)(glares at Blu-Ray's low read speed on the PS3(2)) hence, if I can compress data 4-to-1 I would so so, simply to reduce load times and make it easier to actively stream off of the disc. Compression is needed because of other bottlenecks in the system (read speed, limited memory, et cetera) NOT because of a lack of storage space. Compression is used internally in the PS3 all the time - why would you ignore it? Think of compression like the protein folding the Folding@Home PS3Â fanboys are always jabbering about - it's a needed tool to allow things to happen within a reasonable amount of space.Awesome post!
Cows really have no idea about game development. All they spew is Sony PR.
True. Compression is always needed, and something games are dependant on. But there's some flaws in your arguments:
1 - it is indeed. But you can compress it only to make it easier to the GPU or CPU to process it, or you can compress it even more, much more, just so things can end up fitting the disc space limit. The more you compress, the more it'll take to decompress and more processing power will be taken there. The space is also important when you want to have 4 GB levels like Lair has, or CG movies like a lot of JRPGs and other games use to have.
2 - The PS3's Blu-ray reader is indeed slower than 360's DVD reader, but only when we're talking about one layered DVDs. The Blu-ray drive in the PS3 is way faster than 360's when this one is reading 2 layered discs (the DVD9 ones).
and to the guy just above: wow, your comment really contributed to this discussion. More important, you proved how much you know about game development. Congrats, i hope you're the next myamoto or kojima. (by the way, a lot of what ppl accuses the PS3 of having, like some bottleneks that aren't really an issue, and the Blu-ray reader, the lack of RAM, etc, that aren't such a problem as you think, is MS PR, what the hell are you saying man? do some research, go find how a faster RAM can be better than a not so bigger RAM [you have to keep some of it to the CPU after all uh?], that a flexible brigde between the CPU and GPU can be even better than a flexible RAM, etc go make some research man)
[QUOTE="LosDaddie"][QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="def_mode"][QUOTE="haols"]The only thing blu-ray does as of now is to allow devs to be lazy with compresion and code-writing. SambaLele
ROFL. do u actually encourage developers to compress files? and you know this will downgrade the quality of the game?
If they have space then they dont need to compress.
Â
Its like why would u use vaccuum when we can use our hands to clean?
Actually that's a common misunderstanding. Decompression speed is *much* faster than read speeds (1)(glares at Blu-Ray's low read speed on the PS3(2)) hence, if I can compress data 4-to-1 I would so so, simply to reduce load times and make it easier to actively stream off of the disc. Compression is needed because of other bottlenecks in the system (read speed, limited memory, et cetera) NOT because of a lack of storage space. Compression is used internally in the PS3 all the time - why would you ignore it? Think of compression like the protein folding the Folding@Home PS3 fanboys are always jabbering about - it's a needed tool to allow things to happen within a reasonable amount of space.Awesome post!
Cows really have no idea about game development. All they spew is Sony PR.
True. Compression is always needed, and something games are dependant on. But there's some flaws in your arguments:
1 - it is indeed. But you can compress it only to make it easier to the GPU or CPU to process it, or you can compress it even more, much more, just so things can end up fitting the disc space limit. The more you compress, the more it'll take to decompress and more processing power will be taken there. The space is also important when you want to have 4 GB levels like Lair has, or CG movies like a lot of JRPGs and other games use to have.
2 - The PS3's Blu-ray reader is indeed slower than 360's DVD reader, but only when we're talking about one layered DVDs. The Blu-ray drive in the PS3 is way faster than 360's when this one is reading 2 layered discs (the DVD9 ones).
and to the guy just above: wow, your comment really contributed to this discussion. More important, you proved how much you know about game development. Congrats, i hope you're the next myamoto or kojima. (by the way, a lot of what ppl accuses the PS3 of having, like some bottleneks that aren't really an issue, and the Blu-ray reader, the lack of RAM, etc, that aren't such a problem as you think, is MS PR, what the hell are you saying man? do some research, go find how a faster RAM can be better than a not so bigger RAM [you have to keep some of it to the CPU after all uh?], that a flexible brigde between the CPU and GPU can be even better than a flexible RAM, etc go make some research man)
Â
Glad to see your just repeating what you've read out of a book for all of us to enjoy. Square Enix is hiring btw, give them a call.
key word for this gen is COMPRESSED AND UNCOMPRESSED, remember those 2 word.Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.Â
Â
Â
peacebringer
Your cows anyways ,so i guess you like being Milked. Anywho heres with my argument. If i had a BlueRay rewriter with a 50gb disc i figured out what i would fill it with. files to my PC games that have Next gen graphics to proove next gen games don't need 50gb making this disc to big for anything ATM. If sony manages to fill one of these up with a game i would hope it will last me for 8 years ain't no way am i gonna buy a 50 gb game thats is beatable in a weekend but looks "Real"
Â
World of warcraft with BC and patches 13gb
Crysis(when it's released) 6gb(hahaha this is funny)
Battlefield 2 6gb
titan Quest 5gb
Quake 4 5gb
Company of Heroes 6gb
Surpreme Commander 6gb
Â
and i still have space for alot of songs to lazy to do the math but thats alot of space.
Â
Â
peacebringer
yea that's what they said about floppy disk
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