Blu-ray, NOT just for CGI anymore:)

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]

This was something they stated a long time ago while developing, the demo was'nt very big in size so I guess they compressed it, hehe. We know PS3 exclusives uses the space for higher quality sound and for faster loading. But I would think that the devs won't have to sit and plan what they can and cannot have in the game, like so many other devs this gen needs to.

AnnoyedDragon

It cannot just be for uncompressed sound and such, because Cows are declaring this is evidence Blu-ray is needed; and uncompressed sound isnt needed. None of them seem to care what this space is being used for as long as it is being used, it could be blank files to discourage online distribution for all they care.

PC gamers have access to considerably more storage space than console gamers. But if a game were to be released on PC that required 35GB of space; people would be criticising the developers to high heaven. When The Force Unleashed was announced to use 24GB on PC; PC gamers bashed the developers to hell for their inefficiency, 35GB is taking the mick.

Games requiring bloated storage space is a bad thing to PC gamers, it should have the same meaning on consoles; but Cows are out to prove Blu-ray is required today.

And PC should'nt have anything to do with PS3 exclusives, PC uses installs and therefor they can have multiple DVD's for a long time, even with openworld games. Why should the devs developing PS3 exclusives think about compressing, backtracking, similar environments, and removing stuff when they don't have to?? Just think about how much time the multiplat devs are using to plan what they can and cannot have in a game, and ending up adding some of the left overs as DLC at a later time.

Saying Blu-ray is not needed is like saying better graphics is not needed, or textures, lighting, animation etc etc. If such things help developers realise their vision when making games then who are we to say its not needed? oh right SW is full of well known games developers :|

Swift_Boss_A

The "you're not a dev" card is not a easy means of forcing your opinions on others. Honestly people who use that argument prove their intentions when they start telling people what the case is in a matter of fact manner, right after telling others they don't know what they are talking about because they are not developers...

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]

This was something they stated a long time ago while developing, the demo was'nt very big in size so I guess they compressed it, hehe. We know PS3 exclusives uses the space for higher quality sound and for faster loading. But I would think that the devs won't have to sit and plan what they can and cannot have in the game, like so many other devs this gen needs to.

Martin_G_N

It cannot just be for uncompressed sound and such, because Cows are declaring this is evidence Blu-ray is needed; and uncompressed sound isnt needed. None of them seem to care what this space is being used for as long as it is being used, it could be blank files to discourage online distribution for all they care.

PC gamers have access to considerably more storage space than console gamers. But if a game were to be released on PC that required 35GB of space; people would be criticising the developers to high heaven. When The Force Unleashed was announced to use 24GB on PC; PC gamers bashed the developers to hell for their inefficiency, 35GB is taking the mick.

Games requiring bloated storage space is a bad thing to PC gamers, it should have the same meaning on consoles; but Cows are out to prove Blu-ray is required today.

And PC should'nt have anything to do with PS3 exclusives, PC uses installs and therefor they can have multiple DVD's for a long time, even with openworld games. Why should the devs developing PS3 exclusives think about compressing, backtracking, similar environments, and removing stuff when they don't have to?? Just think about how much time the multiplat devs are using to plan what they can and cannot have in a game, and ending up adding some of the left overs as DLC at a later time.

Having more then one dvd for a game on the PC often times is a rarity.. And you have shown nothing in proving that the PS3's sound quality is superior to the PS3's sound quality due to this.

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]

Saying Blu-ray is not needed is like saying better graphics is not needed, or textures, lighting, animation etc etc. If such things help developers realise their vision when making games then who are we to say its not needed? oh right SW is full of well known games developers :|

AnnoyedDragon

The "you're not a dev" card is not a easy means of forcing your opinions on others. Honestly people who use that argument prove their intentions when they start telling people what the case is in a matter of fact manner, right after telling others they don't know what they are talking about because they are not developers...

A lot of devs have claimed that Blu-ray has helped them immensly, a bigger canvas is surely nothing to complain about. The only thing I keep hearing is that 360 doesn't need it so its not needed or its costly. These claims could have been valid 2 years ago but now feel outdated. Recently Capcom were annoyed that they had to cut part of the game from LP2 because DVD wasn't enough, one example but it holds weight and Im sure there's many. Devs would definitely prefer a bigger canvas to make games and as far as I can tell Blu-ray is needed for gaming whether System wars agrees or not.

Uncompressed sound is one thing, but being able to have more sound samplings with a higher quality is needed. The sound is one of the reasons to why games like Uncharted 2, KZ2, and other PS3 exclusives are as awesome as they are. The sound can be the difference between a dull action scene and an awesome one. The sound quality in most of the games this gen has'nt been better than last gen.

Martin_G_N

Sound is not an argument for the 'requirement' of Blu-ray. Higher quality sound is a luxory, not a requirement.

Having to cut parts out of the game because of DVD would be a far better argument than something only the minority of audiophiles would appreciate.

And PC should'nt have anything to do with PS3 exclusives, PC uses installs and therefor they can have multiple DVD's for a long time, even with openworld games.

Martin_G_N

Your attempts to exclude PC from this debate are an attempt on your part to hide the fact PC demonstrates DVD has a longer lifespan than Blu-ray advocates suggest.

lol we'll see if it has no CGI, the game had CGI in the past it will have CGI cutscenes now.

*talking of the god of war series which had cgi in the past*

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="siLVURcross"]Well I don't think I will get this game anymore, I was going to buy it for the CGI cutscenes but now...now I'm not so sure!heretrix

heh, although the cutscenes were pretty killer in the first GOW, I could easily do without them as well. Was it just me, or did GOW II have significantly less rendered cutscenes? Much of the second games cutscenes were in-game if I remember correctly, with the exception of a few renderings of Zuess and Gaia. I can see GOW III being completely in-game this time around.

Guys Blu-RAY is full of WIN. It is said like Blue Ray but Blue is spelt Blu and becomes a compound neologic word Blu-Ray how cant you just get over that DVD was simply an acronim and fails compared to Blu-Ray

A lot of devs have claimed that Blu-ray has helped them immensly, a bigger canvas is surely nothing to complain about.

Swift_Boss_A

A lot of those developera are on Sony's payroll or are paid to say what the 1st party want, Sony has a history of that.

The only thing I keep hearing is that 360 doesn't need it so its not needed or its costly. These claims could have been valid 2 years ago but now feel outdated. Recently Capcom were annoyed that they had to cut part of the game from LP2 because DVD wasn't enough, one example but it holds weight and Im sure there's many. Devs would definitely prefer a bigger canvas to make games and as far as I can tell Blu-ray is needed for gaming whether System wars agrees or not.

Swift_Boss_A

I think you will believe anything that enables you to argue Blu-ray is needed, ignoring simple factors like gaining additional money from DLC; and using DVD as a convenient excuse.

As a PC gamer, as someone who plays games that offer bigger levels and higher quality textures than consoles can provide, I am telling you Blu-ray's importance is small this generation.

PS3 hasn't got enough memory for Blu-ray to become a requirement, single platforms cannot justify the budgets that would produce enough content to make Blu-ray mandatory.

Isn't anyone going to ask what it is doing with that space? Cows seem to care more about it using that much space rather than why it needs that much, they use these large file sizes as evidence Blu-ray is needed; but don't care about the contents of that space.

Take Killzone 2 for example which apparently needed 2GB of space per level, what the hell was that space being used for?

AnnoyedDragon

Probably because it can, and as such it's a barrier against piracy because not only do few own BR-RW, but even fewer would want to download a 70 GB game.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

Isn't anyone going to ask what it is doing with that space? Cows seem to care more about it using that much space rather than why it needs that much, they use these large file sizes as evidence Blu-ray is needed; but don't care about the contents of that space.

Take Killzone 2 for example which apparently needed 2GB of space per level, what the hell was that space being used for?

Pixel-Pirate

Probably because it can, and as such it's a barrier against piracy because not only do few own BR-RW, but even fewer would want to download a 70 GB game.

Second beat arguement for Blu-Ray yet after mine .;)

I found whats killing the PS3 http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/02/500x_08dueling_02.jpg

Probably because it can, and as such it's a barrier against piracy because not only do few own BR-RW, but even fewer would want to download a 70 GB game.

Pixel-Pirate

It just amazes me how bloated PS3 games are, many PC games are happy on a single DVD and there are no reasons for them to limit themselves in that manner. But with the way Cows talk everything requires gigabytes of information, 2GB for one level being perfectly reasonable.

I know what it is at the end of the day, brand loyalty having them defend their platforms decisions.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

Isn't anyone going to ask what it is doing with that space? Cows seem to care more about it using that much space rather than why it needs that much, they use these large file sizes as evidence Blu-ray is needed; but don't care about the contents of that space.

Take Killzone 2 for example which apparently needed 2GB of space per level, what the hell was that space being used for?

JGAMROT

Probably because it can, and as such it's a barrier against piracy because not only do few own BR-RW, but even fewer would want to download a 70 GB game.

Second beat arguement for Blu-Ray yet after mine .;)

I don't think losing more profits than piracy could take by make a non-cost efficent system, and charging consumers insane prices for your console was a good thing. As such bluray was a bad idea.

A lot of those developera are on Sony's payroll or are paid to say what the 1st party want, Sony has a history of that.

AnnoyedDragon

So you're telling me there is not one dev who finds blu-ray useful but are keeping their mouth shut because Sony is giving them money? Come on, seriously? I Agree Sony would do that but surely some devs still find blu-ray useful.

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]

The only thing I keep hearing is that 360 doesn't need it so its not needed or its costly. These claims could have been valid 2 years ago but now feel outdated. Recently Capcom were annoyed that they had to cut part of the game from LP2 because DVD wasn't enough, one example but it holds weight and Im sure there's many. Devs would definitely prefer a bigger canvas to make games and as far as I can tell Blu-ray is needed for gaming whether System wars agrees or not.

AnnoyedDragon

I think you will believe anything that enables you to argue Blu-ray is needed, ignoring simple factors like gaining additional money from DLC; and using DVD as a convenient excuse.

As a PC gamer, as someone who plays games that offer bigger levels and higher quality textures than consoles can provide, I am telling you Blu-ray's importance is small this generation.

PS3 hasn't got enough memory for Blu-ray to become a requirement, single platforms cannot justify the budgets that would produce enough content to make Blu-ray mandatory.

DVD? pfft Cartridges are much better :P What do you have to say about Capcom saying DVD is not enough and the fact that they had to cut stuff out from LP2 and make it DLC? As a PC gamer you probably are very used to such things on PC so I understand why you think Blu-ray is not needed but as far as console gaming goes blu-ray has proved its has proved its usefulness.

So you're telling me there is not one dev who finds blu-ray useful but are keeping their mouth shut because Sony is giving them money? Come on, seriously? I Agree Sony would do that but surely some devs still find blu-ray useful.

Swift_Boss_A

The only developer I am aware of were Blu-ray is of legitimate use is ID, because of the megatexture technology used in RAGE requires vast quantities of storage.

DVD? pfft Cartridges are much better :P Swift_Boss_A

If I remember my terms correctly; this would be called a hyperbole, you attempting to negate something by creating an unrelated exaggeration.

What do you have to say about Capcom saying DVD is not enough and the fact that they had to cut stuff out from LP2 and make it DLC? As a PC gamer you probably are very used to such things on PC so I understand why you think Blu-ray is not needed but as far as console gaming goes blu-ray has proved its has proved its usefulness.

Swift_Boss_A

I think Capcom is going to benefit quite a bit financially for their decision to declare a sequel to a 360 game cannot fit on 360, all those DLC sales are quite an incentive and DVD makes an easy excuse. Think about it, they have managed to squeeze more money out of people; and divert the blame away from themselves completely.

lol we'll see if it has no CGI, the game had CGI in the past it will have CGI cutscenes now.

*talking of the god of war series which had cgi in the past*

WilliamRLBaker

[QUOTE="JGAMROT"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Probably because it can, and as such it's a barrier against piracy because not only do few own BR-RW, but even fewer would want to download a 70 GB game.

Pixel-Pirate

Second beat arguement for Blu-Ray yet after mine .;)

I don't think losing more profits than piracy could take by make a non-cost efficent system, and charging consumers insane prices for your console was a good thing. As such bluray was a bad idea.

Blu ray beat xboxs hd dvd if that won the war xbox would all have after the elite hd drives and the ps3 would die. Remember Blu ray players are more expensive than the ps3 making it a better buy really the blu ray attracted a lot of customers. I only got one for the bluray and for killzone2/ resistance

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

So you're telling me there is not one dev who finds blu-ray useful but are keeping their mouth shut because Sony is giving them money? Come on, seriously? I Agree Sony would do that but surely some devs still find blu-ray useful.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]

The only thing I keep hearing is that 360 doesn't need it so its not needed or its costly. These claims could have been valid 2 years ago but now feel outdated. Recently Capcom were annoyed that they had to cut part of the game from LP2 because DVD wasn't enough, one example but it holds weight and Im sure there's many. Devs would definitely prefer a bigger canvas to make games and as far as I can tell Blu-ray is needed for gaming whether System wars agrees or not.

Swift_Boss_A

I think you will believe anything that enables you to argue Blu-ray is needed, ignoring simple factors like gaining additional money from DLC; and using DVD as a convenient excuse.

As a PC gamer, as someone who plays games that offer bigger levels and higher quality textures than consoles can provide, I am telling you Blu-ray's importance is small this generation.

PS3 hasn't got enough memory for Blu-ray to become a requirement, single platforms cannot justify the budgets that would produce enough content to make Blu-ray mandatory.

DVD? pfft Cartridges are much better :P What do you have to say about Capcom saying DVD is not enough and the fact that they had to cut stuff out from LP2 and make it DLC? As a PC gamer you probably are very used to such things on PC so I understand why you think Blu-ray is not needed but as far as console gaming goes blu-ray has proved its has proved its usefulness.

Knowing capcoms record, and not trying to be a fanboy, I'd say capcom left it out to put into DLC for the money, not due to space. Why? Because no law currently exists that says you can only use one disc per game, and few gamers I know would rather pay 10 bucks for extra content just so they don't have to get up and switch discs once every 10 hours.

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]

Uncompressed sound is one thing, but being able to have more sound samplings with a higher quality is needed. The sound is one of the reasons to why games like Uncharted 2, KZ2, and other PS3 exclusives are as awesome as they are. The sound can be the difference between a dull action scene and an awesome one. The sound quality in most of the games this gen has'nt been better than last gen.

AnnoyedDragon

Sound is not an argument for the 'requirement' of Blu-ray. Higher quality sound is a luxory, not a requirement.

Having to cut parts out of the game because of DVD would be a far better argument than something only the minority of audiophiles would appreciate.

And PC should'nt have anything to do with PS3 exclusives, PC uses installs and therefor they can have multiple DVD's for a long time, even with openworld games.

Martin_G_N

Your attempts to exclude PC from this debate are an attempt on your part to hide the fact PC demonstrates DVD has a longer lifespan than Blu-ray advocates suggest.

And with the PC argument I merely explained why the PC can use the DVD format alot longer than consoles. The X360 has only 6.8GB available on each disc, it has to de-compress on the fly, and they cannot force installs. Therefor, making a GTA game that is larger than GTA4 an impossible feat. On PC they can use multiple discs and de-compress everything when you install the game. So the fault with the X360 is not the DVD drive, but it's the fact that MS did'nt put an HDD in every X360, and therefor the devs cannot force installs. If they could, the problems would have been removed.

This gen BD rarely is needed in games, but we can start to see the differences showing. ME2 is an example. It uses two discs and the small videoclips in there are last gen quality, and that's bad. It really shows that they really maxed the two discs on the X360. Next gen BD will be necessary.

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

I think you will believe anything that enables you to argue Blu-ray is needed, ignoring simple factors like gaining additional money from DLC; and using DVD as a convenient excuse.

As a PC gamer, as someone who plays games that offer bigger levels and higher quality textures than consoles can provide, I am telling you Blu-ray's importance is small this generation.

PS3 hasn't got enough memory for Blu-ray to become a requirement, single platforms cannot justify the budgets that would produce enough content to make Blu-ray mandatory.

Pixel-Pirate

DVD? pfft Cartridges are much better :P What do you have to say about Capcom saying DVD is not enough and the fact that they had to cut stuff out from LP2 and make it DLC? As a PC gamer you probably are very used to such things on PC so I understand why you think Blu-ray is not needed but as far as console gaming goes blu-ray has proved its has proved its usefulness.

Knowing capcoms record, and not trying to be a fanboy, I'd say capcom left it out to put into DLC for the money, not due to space. Why? Because no law currently exists that says you can only use one disc per game, and few gamers I know would rather pay 10 bucks for extra content just so they don't have to get up and switch discs once every 10 hours.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]

lol we'll see if it has no CGI, the game had CGI in the past it will have CGI cutscenes now.

*talking of the god of war series which had cgi in the past*

did you notice the LINK to the article titled: No CG cutscenes in God of War III ???

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]Sony was smart to use Blu-Ray as a storage medium this gen. Can't wait to play this game.Pixel-Pirate

Can't say I agree. Bluray drove the cost of making the system up, caused the outrageous launch price (which cemented it in 3rd place for years) and has caused sony not to make a profit on the PS3.

Bluray is nice, but I don't think it was a great idea for the PS3.

More and more people are getting HDTV's and small surround systems. You don't need and expencive sound system to enjoy UC2's sound quality. I can hear the difference with my TV speakers.Martin_G_N

I have been over this.

Premium quality audio is a luxury, not a requirement that would make the game impossible without Blu-ray. It would be like me saying textures that take advantage of 512mb Vram is a requirement from a game; with anything lower destroying the experience. I'm sure console gamers would object, as they should.

And with the PC argument I merely explained why the PC can use the DVD format alot longer than consoles. The X360 has only 6.8GB available on each disc, it has to de-compress on the fly, and they cannot force installs. Therefor, making a GTA game that is larger than GTA4 an impossible feat. On PC they can use multiple discs and de-compress everything when you install the game. So the fault with the X360 is not the DVD drive, but it's the fact that MS did'nt put an HDD in every X360, and therefor the devs cannot force installs. If they could, the problems would have been removed. This gen BD rarely is needed in games, but we can start to see the differences showing. ME2 is an example. It uses two discs and the small videoclips in there are last gen quality, and that's bad. It really shows that they really maxed the two discs on the X360. Next gen BD will be necessary.Martin_G_N

You are ignoring that the highest quality games on PC, using the biggest game levels for this sort of FPS, fit on a single DVD in their fully installed form. I'm talking about the Crysis and STALKER games, both of which are under 6.8GB.

You keep talking about PC as if all our games install to a larger size than DVD, or require multiple disks.

I totally agree Blu-ray will be necessary next gen, but to say that of this gen is silly.

[QUOTE="FIipMode"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Can't say I agree. Bluray drove the cost of making the system up, caused the outrageous launch price (which cemented it in 3rd place for years) and has caused sony not to make a profit on the PS3.

Bluray is nice, but I don't think it was a great idea for the PS3.

Pixel-Pirate

While they may end up making a profit in the end, it's basically set in stone they will be last in terms of profits. It is quite possible they could move up to 2nd in sales, however.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]

Saying Blu-ray is not needed is like saying better graphics is not needed, or textures, lighting, animation etc etc. If such things help developers realise their vision when making games then who are we to say its not needed? oh right SW is full of well known games developers :|

Swift_Boss_A

The "you're not a dev" card is not a easy means of forcing your opinions on others. Honestly people who use that argument prove their intentions when they start telling people what the case is in a matter of fact manner, right after telling others they don't know what they are talking about because they are not developers...

A lot of devs have claimed that Blu-ray has helped them immensly, a bigger canvas is surely nothing to complain about. The only thing I keep hearing is that 360 doesn't need it so its not needed or its costly. These claims could have been valid 2 years ago but now feel outdated. Recently Capcom were annoyed that they had to cut part of the game from LP2 because DVD wasn't enough, one example but it holds weight and Im sure there's many. Devs would definitely prefer a bigger canvas to make games and as far as I can tell Blu-ray is needed for gaming whether System wars agrees or not.

If you dont want bluray then fine play on your xbox or pc. I dont care tbh blu ray disk with 80gb capacity are the same price as xbox dvddl 8,2gb capacity in store. So would I rather COD4 on Blu Ray or DVD I dont care but FFXIII I want one disc thus Blu rAY If I was part of sony I might have these stupid discussions but since im just a comsumer I dont give a ****

[QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

The "you're not a dev" card is not a easy means of forcing your opinions on others. Honestly people who use that argument prove their intentions when they start telling people what the case is in a matter of fact manner, right after telling others they don't know what they are talking about because they are not developers...

Fuhgeddabouditt

A lot of devs have claimed that Blu-ray has helped them immensly, a bigger canvas is surely nothing to complain about. The only thing I keep hearing is that 360 doesn't need it so its not needed or its costly. These claims could have been valid 2 years ago but now feel outdated. Recently Capcom were annoyed that they had to cut part of the game from LP2 because DVD wasn't enough, one example but it holds weight and Im sure there's many. Devs would definitely prefer a bigger canvas to make games and as far as I can tell Blu-ray is needed for gaming whether System wars agrees or not.

R* NOrth gets away with complaining alot they complained about sony when MS gave them money for dlc now they complain about ms dvd comtrainsts since gta is finsihed and they now have Sony exclusives to make.

Rockstar Games as well complained. Fuhgeddabouditt

Whether they did I won't argue, but I do recall Cows were there to spread significantly exaggerated claims regarding that. What was it they claimed? The game would be 2-3 times bigger if it was a PS3 exclusive? They were already spending a ridiculous sum on the game, the idea that they would spend vastly more and then keep it exclusively to one platform is preposterous.

There's no point in boasting about scenarios that could never happen, not unless Rockstar had a dire need to become bankrupt.

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"]Rockstar Games as well complained. AnnoyedDragon

Whether they did I won't argue, but I do recall Cows were there to spread significantly exaggerated claims regarding that. What was it they claimed? The game would would be 2-3 times bigger if it was a PS3 exclusive? They were already spending a ridiculous sum on the game, the idea that they would spend vastly more and then keep it exclusively to one platform is preposterous.

There's no point in boasting about scenarios that could never happen, not unless Rockstar had a dire need to become bankrupt.

It's the same backwards lemming logic.. You won't get any other argument, it's the oldest play in the book.

This gen started out with "Games don't need BluRay"

now its:

"Not enough games use BluRay"...

God of War 3 will come and go as GoTY and they will still praise the Magical Compression Fairy while cutting blocks of cheese on Lightning's hair. This is the way of the Lem. Compressed audio is better than uncompressed. 720p video is just fine because, remember, they started out this gen already saying "1080p is meaningless for gamers." Developers can come out countless times this gen talking about cutting content from the games or having difficulties dealing with making their games fit on the 360.. It doesn;t matter. They have their playbook and they will call the same plays right through the fourth quarter of this game.

lol we'll see if it has no CGI, the game had CGI in the past it will have CGI cutscenes now.

*talking of the god of war series which had cgi in the past*

WilliamRLBaker

Why dont you look at the links he provided, the devs have said counltess times GOW3 wont have CGI.

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"][QUOTE="Swift_Boss_A"]

A lot of devs have claimed that Blu-ray has helped them immensly, a bigger canvas is surely nothing to complain about. The only thing I keep hearing is that 360 doesn't need it so its not needed or its costly. These claims could have been valid 2 years ago but now feel outdated. Recently Capcom were annoyed that they had to cut part of the game from LP2 because DVD wasn't enough, one example but it holds weight and Im sure there's many. Devs would definitely prefer a bigger canvas to make games and as far as I can tell Blu-ray is needed for gaming whether System wars agrees or not.

JGAMROT

R* NOrth gets away with complaining alot they complained about sony when MS gave them money for dlc now they complain about ms dvd comtrainsts since gta is finsihed and they now have Sony exclusives to make.

[QUOTE="JGAMROT"]

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"] Rockstar Games as well complained. Martin_G_N

R* NOrth gets away with complaining alot they complained about sony when MS gave them money for dlc now they complain about ms dvd comtrainsts since gta is finsihed and they now have Sony exclusives to make.

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]More and more people are getting HDTV's and small surround systems. You don't need and expencive sound system to enjoy UC2's sound quality. I can hear the difference with my TV speakers.AnnoyedDragon

I have been over this.

Premium quality audio is a luxury, not a requirement that would make the game impossible without Blu-ray. It would be like me saying textures that take advantage of 512mb Vram is a requirement from a game; with anything lower destroying the experience. I'm sure console gamers would object, as they should.

And with the PC argument I merely explained why the PC can use the DVD format alot longer than consoles. The X360 has only 6.8GB available on each disc, it has to de-compress on the fly, and they cannot force installs. Therefor, making a GTA game that is larger than GTA4 an impossible feat. On PC they can use multiple discs and de-compress everything when you install the game. So the fault with the X360 is not the DVD drive, but it's the fact that MS did'nt put an HDD in every X360, and therefor the devs cannot force installs. If they could, the problems would have been removed. This gen BD rarely is needed in games, but we can start to see the differences showing. ME2 is an example. It uses two discs and the small videoclips in there are last gen quality, and that's bad. It really shows that they really maxed the two discs on the X360. Next gen BD will be necessary.Martin_G_N

You are ignoring that the highest quality games on PC, using the biggest game levels for this sort of FPS, fit on a single DVD in their fully installed form. I'm talking about the Crysis and STALKER games, both of which are under 6.8GB.

You keep talking about PC as if all our games install to a larger size than DVD, or require multiple disks.

I totally agree Blu-ray will be necessary next gen, but to say that of this gen is silly.

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"][QUOTE="JGAMROT"]

R* NOrth gets away with complaining alot they complained about sony when MS gave them money for dlc now they complain about ms dvd comtrainsts since gta is finsihed and they now have Sony exclusives to make.

Fuhgeddabouditt

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]

I have been over this.

Premium quality audio is a luxury, not a requirement that would make the game impossible without Blu-ray. It would be like me saying textures that take advantage of 512mb Vram is a requirement from a game; with anything lower destroying the experience. I'm sure console gamers would object, as they should.

[QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]
And with the PC argument I merely explained why the PC can use the DVD format alot longer than consoles. The X360 has only 6.8GB available on each disc, it has to de-compress on the fly, and they cannot force installs. Therefor, making a GTA game that is larger than GTA4 an impossible feat. On PC they can use multiple discs and de-compress everything when you install the game. So the fault with the X360 is not the DVD drive, but it's the fact that MS did'nt put an HDD in every X360, and therefor the devs cannot force installs. If they could, the problems would have been removed. This gen BD rarely is needed in games, but we can start to see the differences showing. ME2 is an example. It uses two discs and the small videoclips in there are last gen quality, and that's bad. It really shows that they really maxed the two discs on the X360. Next gen BD will be necessary.Martin_G_N

You are ignoring that the highest quality games on PC, using the biggest game levels for this sort of FPS, fit on a single DVD in their fully installed form. I'm talking about the Crysis and STALKER games, both of which are under 6.8GB.

You keep talking about PC as if all our games install to a larger size than DVD, or require multiple disks.

I totally agree Blu-ray will be necessary next gen, but to say that of this gen is silly.

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"][QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]Rockstar had a talk with MS while developing GTA4 regarding the DVD issue. And I think the conclusion was that they could not have mandatory installs, therefor multiple discs was out of the question. Rockstar said that the DVD was a problem since GTA games only gets bigger and bigger, and GTA4 allready maxed it. I can understand them completely, they did'nt have these issues last gen. GTA SA was several times in size compared to GTA3, both in GB and map size.HuusAsking

Please rockstar make so much content they kill every system storage. Next genw ill have better than crysis graphcis as a norm. It will have 7.1 sound as a norm. It will have a lot more video not cgi in gtas case but still cutsceens.And they will make NYC FILLED with life and every single building enterable and unique it will kill the PS4 and everything else including PC hardware.

I can see that it's not necessary this gen. But with your logic, a game like Crysis with lowered graphics quality can be as good. The experience would have been totally different.

Martin_G_N

That's exactly what I was saying; and no the experience would not have been totally different.

Graphics are effects, effects are scalable, they make a game look prettier but have zero impact on the game design. Sound are effects, effects are scalable, the difference between Blu-ray and DVD quality audio would have no impact that would make the game only work on Blu-ray.

The same can be said with UC2, if you compressed the sound quality alot, you could have fitted the game on one DVD. Would it have been the same experience? Of course not. The sound is what takes up most of the space, so a dialogue heavy game usually requires alot of space. Which is why Fallout 3 and Stalker can be so big in size, they are'nt exactly heavy with dialogue and sound effects. Most of the dialogue and sound effects are used over and over again.

Martin_G_N

You are significantly exaggerating the impact of audio compression, we are not talking about the difference between crystal clear and fuzzy here, the vast majority of games use compressed audio with no diminished experience.

None of this actually matters, you only think it matters because you believe it justifies Blu-ray as a requirement; which it does not.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"] that leaves me wondering, will the next GTA make its way to the 360? Most likely, its gonna be bigger and more detailed than GTA4. JGAMROT

Please rockstar make so much content they kill every system storage. Next genw ill have better than crysis graphcis as a norm. It will have 7.1 sound as a norm. It will have a lot more video not cgi in gtas case but still cutsceens.And they will make NYC FILLED with life and every single building enterable and unique it will kill the PS4 and everything else including PC hardware.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"] that leaves me wondering, will the next GTA make its way to the 360? Most likely, its gonna be bigger and more detailed than GTA4. JGAMROT

Please rockstar make so much content they kill every system storage. Next genw ill have better than crysis graphcis as a norm. It will have 7.1 sound as a norm. It will have a lot more video not cgi in gtas case but still cutsceens.And they will make NYC FILLED with life and every single building enterable and unique it will kill the PS4 and everything else including PC hardware.

[QUOTE="JGAMROT"]

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Odds are, given the development time, GTA5 won't show up until next generation, when storage space will no longer be an immediate issue.

HuusAsking

Please rockstar make so much content they kill every system storage. Next genw ill have better than crysis graphcis as a norm. It will have 7.1 sound as a norm. It will have a lot more video not cgi in gtas case but still cutsceens.And they will make NYC FILLED with life and every single building enterable and unique it will kill the PS4 and everything else including PC hardware.

And in 2013 after the world ends and obama get shot Rockstar will make such a game. Gow3 ends with kratos dying btw and FF versus never comes out Square Enixget pwned by Korea Hackers that stole google.

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"][QUOTE="Martin_G_N"]Rockstar had a talk with MS while developing GTA4 regarding the DVD issue. And I think the conclusion was that they could not have mandatory installs, therefor multiple discs was out of the question. Rockstar said that the DVD was a problem since GTA games only gets bigger and bigger, and GTA4 allready maxed it. I can understand them completely, they did'nt have these issues last gen. GTA SA was several times in size compared to GTA3, both in GB and map size.HuusAsking

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]Sony was smart to use Blu-Ray as a storage medium this gen. Can't wait to play this game.Totalgym9000

Can't say I agree. Bluray drove the cost of making the system up, caused the outrageous launch price (which cemented it in 3rd place for years) and has caused sony not to make a profit on the PS3.

Bluray is nice, but I don't think it was a great idea for the PS3.

I actually doubt bluray will be the gaming or movie standard any time soon. It's time will come, be patient HD-Nuts.

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]

[QUOTE="Fuhgeddabouditt"] that leaves me wondering, will the next GTA make its way to the 360? Most likely, its gonna be bigger and more detailed than GTA4. Fuhgeddabouditt

I am on about GTA5 not just eh next GTA

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]Sony was smart to use Blu-Ray as a storage medium this gen. Can't wait to play this game.Pixel-Pirate

Can't say I agree. Bluray drove the cost of making the system up, caused the outrageous launch price (which cemented it in 3rd place for years) and has caused sony not to make a profit on the PS3.

Bluray is nice, but I don't think it was a great idea for the PS3.

Bluray is also nice that I can have my disks out and really not have to worry about scratching them, yes they can be scratched but not under normal wear and tear like regular dvd's get scratched under. Heck you can buy a game from gamestop for the ps3 and really feel that you just purchased a new game.

But even as a ceo sometimes you have to lose some to make more back later on. Sony will use bluray on the ps4 aswell, and devs can look forward to that. And since they are part of the bluray panel and put the work in to it this gen, next gen it will be much cheaper to use, and they will start to see some great income from winning the format war. And there will always be a need for a hard format for retailers and just for people who like to actually own something from their money spent.

I mean, the 360 was what $299 and $399 at launch. The ps3 was $499 and $599. Now add $50 to the 360 for xbox live and you are now at $349, a total of $150 cheaper than the ps3 with less options for its buyer. Then add on 4 years of play with the 360 for what you get from the ps3 for free, you are now adding $200 to the price of the 360 which puts it at $499 the same price as the 40gb or 80gb ps3 which had more hdd space than any of the 360's and giving you the option to watch bluray movies on your $2000 hdtv plus all of the past great games the ps1, ps2 had that could have sequels on the ps3 and all of the dev support Sony has. Really for the life of me I have yet to figure out why on earth did people get the 360, besides not being able to wait on the ps3 which came out a yearlater, something that lemmings will never understand. And is the ONLY reason the 360 has a higher user base at the moment. Cause once you take that year out of the equation the ps3 has sold even or better than the 360 even with a higher price tag :)

[QUOTE="FIipMode"]Sony was smart to use Blu-Ray as a storage medium this gen. Can't wait to play this game.Modern_Unit

Those are two contradictory words there...

Is that why you came to Gamespot? To bash sony left and right? You think your proving anything here or something? Only people that will take you seriusly are other fakeboys...

Seriusly, just start posting something normal and dont be Microsofts Joseph Goebbels....