Blu-Ray the new standard for longer games?

Sony pushes Blu-Ray as some kind of magic bullet for the PS3, because it allows for more gameplay to be packed into each game. They like to say things like "You can't make this game on the 360 because it doesn't have blu-ray"..

What I find ironic about Sony is that you can take every AA and AAA exclusive on the PS3, add up all their gameplay together and get something like 20 hours of TOTAL gameplay.. Which is about the same amount of gameplay in Mass Effect.

Don't believe me? Lets look at the facts:

MGS4 5 hours of gameplay (when ignoring the snoozefest movie cutscenes)
LBP 3 hours of gameplay for the story mode
Heavenly Sword 4 hours of gameplay
Resistance 5 hours of gameplay
Drake 3 hours of gameplay

Yet when reviewers say that Fable 2 has 12 hours if you only do the main quest, PS3 fanboys are the first to bash how short it is.

WillieBeamish

Ummm....yeah. Do you want to know the real reason why games are shorter nowadays even with Blu-Ray? It is called escalating costs of game development. Most of the "short" games on Blu-Ray are not because there wasn't enough space. It was because the developers didn't want to keep spending time and money to make a game longer and longer because the cost of game development is rising very quickly. And I put the word "short" in quotation marks because a "short" game now seems to be considered 5 hours or less. Funny...because many NES games 20 years ago might take 2 hours to complete at most.

[QUOTE="mephisto_11"]

well to be fair mgs is about 8-10 hours

uncharted 8-10

resistance 10-12

but yeah blu ray hasnt done anything for games as far as length

Espada12

Finally someone who actually has somewhat accurate numbers.

You obvioulsy haven't played mgs4. it's 5 hours when you're doing a SPEED RUN to get the big boss rank. in fact 5 hours is the limit. meaning you ignore every single item, weapon, enemy, and every other goodie just to finish the game. who plays a game ignoring all the fun in the game.

I hate it when a lemming calls mgs4 a short game. yet they all jump in joy when a konami spokesperson gives hope for a x360 port. :roll: Fanboys.

Evolved_One

[QUOTE="Evolved_One"]

You obvioulsy haven't played mgs4. it's 5 hours when you're doing a SPEED RUN to get the big boss rank. in fact 5 hours is the limit. meaning you ignore every single item, weapon, enemy, and every other goodie just to finish the game. who plays a game ignoring all the fun in the game.

I hate it when a lemming calls mgs4 a short game. yet they all jump in joy when a konami spokesperson gives hope for a x360 port. :roll: Fanboys.

abuabed

Fallout 2 can last forever. Doesn't that mean thats its the best game ever?

But you can finish it in 18 mins. Doesn't that make it the worse game ever?

Dialague is snory Don't count. ME is short.

farcry 4gb 15-20 hours has average console graphics of today.

oblivion 50 hours 4gb

crysis 6.7gb and no shooter looks better

world in conflict 4.6gb and is long and give crysis a run for its money

the witcher ehanced edition 10gb and is 30 hours easy

stalker 6gb and easily 15-20 hours

yeah blu ray is really needed. the only game I have come across that is more tha 10gb is mass effect @ 15gb but that worked on x360

imprezawrx500

your joking right? crysis had an install of around 7gb~ and it also had to read fron the disc

The whole game would be around the 14-15gb mark

edit: just checked and your oblivion and your world in conflict nubers are just the size of the install lol you do know the pc streams data from both HDD and disc ? I dont have stalker or mass effect so i cant prove you wrong there

[QUOTE="rockguy92"][QUOTE="WillieBeamish"]

Sony pushes Blu-Ray as some kind of magic bullet for the PS3, because it allows for more gameplay to be packed into each game. They like to say things like "You can't make this game on the 360 because it doesn't have blu-ray"..

What I find ironic about Sony is that you can take every AA and AAA exclusive on the PS3, add up all their gameplay together and get something like 20 hours of TOTAL gameplay.. Which is about the same amount of gameplay in Mass Effect.

Don't believe me? Lets look at the facts:

MGS4 5 hours of gameplay (when ignoring the snoozefest movie cutscenes)
LBP 3 hours of gameplay for the story mode
Heavenly Sword 4 hours of gameplay
Resistance 5 hours of gameplay
Drake 3 hours of gameplay

Yet when reviewers say that Fable 2 has 12 hours if you only do the main quest, PS3 fanboys are the first to bash how short it is.

WillieBeamish

Uh what?

http://boards.ign.com/uncharted_drakes_fortune/b11422/157312031/r157315799/

ya um that was a speed run....My first play-trough reached to 15 hours of game time.

P.S: you probably dont believe in books either, since those are an outdated physical method by your standads. WilliamRLBaker

Books have a huge advantage over digital readers in access time and page quality. The contrast ratio of "ink on paper", battery life (infinite), cost, and usability are far higher. Books are an advanced technology, the end product of hundreds of years of refinement.

Blu-Ray isn't. Blu-Ray lacks the storage capacity for the current high-end (4k digital films) that Hollywood has chosen. Meanwhile it's tied to an outmodded distribution network, host of DRM issues (HDMI is inferior to DisplayPort and other proposed technologies, HDMI cabling at the hardware level is an inferior design), potential issues with long-term storage, questionable quality "film" transfers, high costs, and ridiculous claims are just too much.

The future is digital - if you're buying Audio DVDs (pure audio DVDs of music) you are in the minority. You represent less than 0.01% of the market. And for absolutely no good reason. If your Audio DVD is scratched, it is gone forever. Meanwhile with a digital copy of a song, I can create as many archival copies as I would like. Lossless codecs allow musicians to record at whatever fidelity they want - bound only by what they're capable of - not what the prevailing standard of some disc or player is locked at.

-

The future is digital whether you like it or not - it's one of the only ways producers are going to be able to secure their content - which they will do - and it's simply a path we need to accept now. Accepting the future as digital allows us to put our dollars towards those services that work for the consumer (such as STEAM) and makes those the future, rather than allowing companies like EA to have services designed to make as much money off the consumer as possible, with little regard for benefit.

That is the danger in all of this - the danger in the Blu-Ray lie. Blu-Ray today is what cartridges were to the N64. Now whether the PS3 is the N64, or discs have another generation or two is irrelevant - the point is that the "technology" is not the future - much as they knew discs would be the future then, we know that digital services will be the future now.

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"]P.S: you probably dont believe in books either, since those are an outdated physical method by your standads. subrosian

Books have a huge advantage over digital readers in access time and page quality. The contrast ratio of "ink on paper", battery life (infinite), cost, and usability are far higher. Books are an advanced technology, the end product of hundreds of years of refinement.

Blu-Ray isn't. Blu-Ray lacks the storage capacity for the current high-end (4k digital films) that Hollywood has chosen. Meanwhile it's tied to an outmodded distribution network, host of DRM issues (HDMI is inferior to DisplayPort and other proposed technologies, HDMI cabling at the hardware level is an inferior design), potential issues with long-term storage, questionable quality "film" transfers, high costs, and ridiculous claims are just too much.

The future is digital - if you're buying Audio DVDs (pure audio DVDs of music) you are in the minority. You represent less than 0.01% of the market. And for absolutely no good reason. If your Audio DVD is scratched, it is gone forever. Meanwhile with a digital copy of a song, I can create as many archival copies as I would like. Lossless codecs allow musicians to record at whatever fidelity they want - bound only by what they're capable of - not what the prevailing standard of some disc or player is locked at.

-

The future is digital whether you like it or not - it's one of the only ways producers are going to be able to secure their content - which they will do - and it's simply a path we need to accept now. Accepting the future as digital allows us to put our dollars towards those services that work for the consumer (such as STEAM) and makes those the future, rather than allowing companies like EA to have services designed to make as much money off the consumer as possible, with little regard for benefit.

That is the danger in all of this - the danger in the Blu-Ray lie. Blu-Ray today is what cartridges were to the N64. Now whether the PS3 is the N64, or discs have another generation or two is irrelevant - the point is that the "technology" is not the future - much as they knew discs would be the future then, we know that digital services will be the future now.

sorry but even when mp3s became mainstream Cd's still exist

why? because people would rather have a copy in their hand

same for dvd

yeah - visit neogaf from time to time. they've proven time and time again that most PS3 games just use the extra space to cram in uncompressed 7.1 audio. which most people in the know realize is a moot point considering the advances in lossless compression these days.

anyone that thinks BR is actually being used to store better assets in the way of visuals or more content a) hasn't played all the games, or b) isn't aware / doesn't want to admit bottlenecks in the system that mean the PS3 uses the same / lower res textures than the 360 - which used DVD.

BluRay has yet to be proven necessary for any game.

yeah - visit neogaf from time to time. they've proven time and time again that most PS3 games just use the extra space to cram in uncompressed 7.1 audio. which most people in the know realize is a moot point considering the advances in lossless compression these days.

anyone that thinks BR is actually being used to store better assets in the way of visuals or more content a) hasn't played all the games, or b) isn't aware / doesn't want to admit bottlenecks in the system that mean the PS3 uses the same / lower res textures than the 360 - which used DVD.

BluRay has yet to be proven necessary for any game IMO.

3picuri3

Id like a link to that also fixed it for you

Id like a link to that also fixed it for you

micky4889

no need for a link, go read up in neogaf, or google the numerous PS3 / 360 screen comparisons. if you know your texture work it's plain as day to see. and notice i said 'same / lower' - meaning bluray isn't being used for uber-high resolution textures. the Unreal 07 PS3 version actually cut out entire buildings and reduced overall polygon counts - proof the PS3 has issues with texture and asset bottlenecks. or as cows would say 'lazy devs'... which is just an excuse :)

and no, it's not in my opinion. it's based on the work posters at neogaf and other places do examining the contents of BRD, none of them are filled past a dual layer DVD with anything but uncompressed audio.

i don't provide links for people that alter quotes - you can do the legwork, i'm confident with what i've said because i keep up on my gaming info :).

i'll be the first to admit BR is necessary when a game comes out for the PS3 that has a full disk that is filled by NECESSITY, not to make reading faster by duplicating data, and not by filling it with useless uncompressed audio.

and i'm no lemming or sheep, i want a new PS3 bad for LBP. i'm just able to read and recognize that BR hasn't been proven necessary yet for gaming.

[QUOTE="micky4889"]

Id like a link to that also fixed it for you

3picuri3

no need for a link, go read up in neogaf, or google the numerous PS3 / 360 screen comparisons. if you know your texture work it's plain as day to see. and notice i said 'same / lower' - meaning bluray isn't being used for uber-high resolution textures.

and no, it's not in my opinion. it's based on the work posters at neogaf and other places do examining the contents of BRD, none of them are filled past a dual layer DVD with anything but uncompressed audio.

i don't provide links for people that alter quotes - you can do the legwork, i'm confident with what i've said because i keep up on my gaming info :).

I'd like to see a link of that.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="micky4889"]

Id like a link to that also fixed it for you

FragTycoon

no need for a link, go read up in neogaf, or google the numerous PS3 / 360 screen comparisons. if you know your texture work it's plain as day to see. and notice i said 'same / lower' - meaning bluray isn't being used for uber-high resolution textures.

and no, it's not in my opinion. it's based on the work posters at neogaf and other places do examining the contents of BRD, none of them are filled past a dual layer DVD with anything but uncompressed audio.

i don't provide links for people that alter quotes - you can do the legwork, i'm confident with what i've said because i keep up on my gaming info :).

I'd like to see a link of that.

a link of what? screen comparisons? people examing PS3 disk contents? does you search engine not work :P

[QUOTE="FragTycoon"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="micky4889"]

Id like a link to that also fixed it for you

3picuri3

no need for a link, go read up in neogaf, or google the numerous PS3 / 360 screen comparisons. if you know your texture work it's plain as day to see. and notice i said 'same / lower' - meaning bluray isn't being used for uber-high resolution textures.

and no, it's not in my opinion. it's based on the work posters at neogaf and other places do examining the contents of BRD, none of them are filled past a dual layer DVD with anything but uncompressed audio.

i don't provide links for people that alter quotes - you can do the legwork, i'm confident with what i've said because i keep up on my gaming info :).

I'd like to see a link of that.

a link of what? screen comparisons? people examing PS3 disk contents? does you search engine not work :P

that. I just want to be on the same page.

meh, don't have time to provide links, i know it's true - use google and spend some time researching yourself if you want the info. neogaf does a breakdown of each disk as they come in so that would be a good place to start. you could also try searching these forums as it's been brought up in SW many many times.

if you don't think it's true try to find evidence of one BR title that needed more than a dl DVD when compressed - not counting 7,1 uncompressed audio :P

MGS4 should be the easiest one to find. it was filled with duplicate data and uncompressed 7.1 audio - and rendered to screen at sub-hd resolution and was upscaled. i think that speaks to both points and you can easily find that info with google. i just did.

[QUOTE="micky4889"]

Id like a link to that also fixed it for you

3picuri3

no need for a link, go read up in neogaf, or google the numerous PS3 / 360 screen comparisons. if you know your texture work it's plain as day to see. and notice i said 'same / lower' - meaning bluray isn't being used for uber-high resolution textures. the Unreal 07 PS3 version actually cut out entire buildings and reduced overall polygon counts - proof the PS3 has issues with texture and asset bottlenecks. or as cows would say 'lazy devs'... which is just an excuse :)

and no, it's not in my opinion. it's based on the work posters at neogaf and other places do examining the contents of BRD, none of them are filled past a dual layer DVD with anything but uncompressed audio.

i don't provide links for people that alter quotes - you can do the legwork,i'm confident with what i've said because i keep up on my gaming info :).

i'll be the first to admit BR is necessary when a game comes out for the PS3 that has a full disk that is filled by NECESSITY, not to make reading faster by duplicating data, and not by filling it with useless uncompressed audio.

and i'm no lemming or sheep, i want a new PS3 bad for LBP. i'm just able to read and recognize that BR hasn't been proven necessary yet for gaming.

Tell me this then

why did we move from cartridges to Cds then to DVDs ? it couldnt be space could it :o ?

face it if space was not a priority in gaming we would still be using Cds

And just because your confident with what you have does not make it right

every ps3, 360 that has come out since the beginning of this year (that was not a sloppy port) have looked identical

Heh.

The Witcher anyone?

Nice and lengthy. Perfect.

meh, don't have time to provide links, i know it's true - use google and spend some time researching yourself if you want the info. neogaf does a breakdown of each disk as they come in so that would be a good place to start. you could also try searching these forums as it's been brought up in SW many many times.

if you don't think it's true try to find evidence of one BR title that needed more than a dl DVD when compressed - not counting 7,1 uncompressed audio :P

3picuri3

I do believe mgs4 was around the 40gb mark before padding and i highly doubt 31GB of that went to audio

Tell me this then

why did we move from cartridges to Cds then to DVDs ? it couldnt be space could it :o ?

face it if space was not a priority in gaming we would still be using Cds

And just because your confident with what you have does not make it right

every ps3, 360 that has come out since the beginning of this year (that was not a sloppy port) have looked identical

micky4889

i don't want to argue with people that can't accept facts. look up the screen comparisons here hosted on GS, search for others, look up Unreal 360 vs PS3. note, for the second TIME, that i said 'same or worse' textures.. so sometimes they look equal, but more often than not the 360 has the upper hand when taking all games in to account. and don't try to use the excuse 'sloppy port' - there's enough evidence out there to conclude the PS3 is the problem, not the devs.

and moving from carts to cds to dvds, duh, of course its for extra space - fact of the matter is no games on PS3 have needed it yet. that's what i'm trying to tell you - devs fill the disk with copies of game data and uncompressed audio. find me one example of a PS3 game that couldn't fit on a dual-layer DVD. one could argue that the 360 has the largest game ever - and it plays just fine with 4 disks :).

and just because you think i'm not right doesn't make you right, especially when you cant' concede points that can be proven using the site you're posting on. lmao.

have a good day sir :)

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

meh, don't have time to provide links, i know it's true - use google and spend some time researching yourself if you want the info. neogaf does a breakdown of each disk as they come in so that would be a good place to start. you could also try searching these forums as it's been brought up in SW many many times.

if you don't think it's true try to find evidence of one BR title that needed more than a dl DVD when compressed - not counting 7,1 uncompressed audio :P

micky4889

I do believe mgs4 was around the 40gb mark before padding and i highly doubt 31GB of that went to audio

you were wrong :) unless you're counting the uncompressed HD cutscenes - which I said you can't do.. no uncompressed data counts seeing MS uses compression very well, as does PC.

[QUOTE="micky4889"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

meh, don't have time to provide links, i know it's true - use google and spend some time researching yourself if you want the info. neogaf does a breakdown of each disk as they come in so that would be a good place to start. you could also try searching these forums as it's been brought up in SW many many times.

if you don't think it's true try to find evidence of one BR title that needed more than a dl DVD when compressed - not counting 7,1 uncompressed audio :P

3picuri3

I do believe mgs4 was around the 40gb mark before padding and i highly doubt 31GB of that went to audio

you were wrong :) unless you're counting the uncompressed HD cutscenes - which I said you can't do.. no uncompressed data counts seeing MS uses compression very well, as does PC.

The cutscenes were all done on ingame :o

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="micky4889"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

meh, don't have time to provide links, i know it's true - use google and spend some time researching yourself if you want the info. neogaf does a breakdown of each disk as they come in so that would be a good place to start. you could also try searching these forums as it's been brought up in SW many many times.

if you don't think it's true try to find evidence of one BR title that needed more than a dl DVD when compressed - not counting 7,1 uncompressed audio :P

micky4889

I do believe mgs4 was around the 40gb mark before padding and i highly doubt 31GB of that went to audio

you were wrong :) unless you're counting the uncompressed HD cutscenes - which I said you can't do.. no uncompressed data counts seeing MS uses compression very well, as does PC.

The cutscenes were all done on ingame :o

not all my friend, there was a lot of HD video throughout the game, the fake ads, fake gameshows, etc. all of which was apparently uncompressed on the disk. i'm talking about the video, not the normal cutscenes.

[QUOTE="micky4889"]

Tell me this then

why did we move from cartridges to Cds then to DVDs ? it couldnt be space could it :o ?

face it if space was not a priority in gaming we would still be using Cds

And just because your confident with what you have does not make it right

every ps3, 360 that has come out since the beginning of this year (that was not a sloppy port) have looked identical

3picuri3

i don't want to argue with people that can't accept facts. look up the screen comparisons here hosted on GS, search for others, look up Unreal 360 vs PS3. note, for the second TIME, that i said 'same or worse' textures.. so sometimes they look equal, but more often than not the 360 has the upper hand when taking all games in to account. and don't try to use the excuse 'sloppy port' - there's enough evidence out there to conclude the PS3 is the problem, not the devs.

and moving from carts to cds to dvds, duh, of course its for extra space - fact of the matter is no games on PS3 have needed it yet. that's what i'm trying to tell you - devs fill the disk with copies of game data and uncompressed audio. find me one example of a PS3 game that couldn't fit on a dual-layer DVD. one could argue that the 360 has the largest game ever - and it plays just fine with 4 disks :).

and just because you think i'm not right doesn't make you right, especially when you cant' concede points that can be proven using the site you're posting on. lmao.

have a good day sir :)

So when should we start using blu-ray? when games start coming on 10 dvds ? your logic is way of and you just disarmed your whole argument

blue dragon - 5 dvds

Lost odyssey - 5 dvds

and you can bet these games were higly compressed since devs have to shell out a hell of a lot more to microsoft if their game exceeds 2 discs

[QUOTE="micky4889"][QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="micky4889"][QUOTE="3picuri3"]

meh, don't have time to provide links, i know it's true - use google and spend some time researching yourself if you want the info. neogaf does a breakdown of each disk as they come in so that would be a good place to start. you could also try searching these forums as it's been brought up in SW many many times.

if you don't think it's true try to find evidence of one BR title that needed more than a dl DVD when compressed - not counting 7,1 uncompressed audio :P

3picuri3

I do believe mgs4 was around the 40gb mark before padding and i highly doubt 31GB of that went to audio

you were wrong :) unless you're counting the uncompressed HD cutscenes - which I said you can't do.. no uncompressed data counts seeing MS uses compression very well, as does PC.

The cutscenes were all done on ingame :o

not all my friend, there was a lot of HD video throughout the game, the fake ads, fake gameshows, etc. all of which was apparently uncompressed on the disk. i'm talking about the video, not the normal cutscenes.

So your saying between the 5 minute gameshow at the start ( only part of the game i seen hd video being used) and the audio that = 31GB lol

yeah - visit neogaf from time to time. they've proven time and time again that most PS3 games just use the extra space to cram in uncompressed 7.1 audio. which most people in the know realize is a moot point considering the advances in lossless compression these days.

anyone that thinks BR is actually being used to store better assets in the way of visuals or more content a) hasn't played all the games, or b) isn't aware / doesn't want to admit bottlenecks in the system that mean the PS3 uses the same / lower res textures than the 360 - which used DVD.

BluRay has yet to be proven necessary for any game.

3picuri3

It's too bad the XBox 360 is not capable of lossless compression either. (IE. DTS HD-MA, Dolby TrueHD)

farcry 4gb 15-20 hours has average console graphics of today.

oblivion 50 hours 4gb

crysis 6.7gb and no shooter looks better

world in conflict 4.6gb and is long and give crysis a run for its money

the witcher ehanced edition 10gb and is 30 hours easy

stalker 6gb and easily 15-20 hours

yeah blu ray is really needed. the only game I have come across that is more tha 10gb is mass effect @ 15gb but that worked on x360

imprezawrx500

Umm Oblivion can be beaten in 11 minutes so if we are going on straight completion time that's stupid. But Blu Ray does not increase length it just has more space if you want to fill crap up with it

Books have a huge advantage over digital readers in access time and page quality. The contrast ratio of "ink on paper", battery life (infinite), cost, and usability are far higher. Books are an advanced technology, the end product of hundreds of years of refinement.

subrosian

The future is digital - if you're buying Audio DVDs (pure audio DVDs of music) you are in the minority. You represent less than 0.01% of the market. And for absolutely no good reason. If your Audio DVD is scratched, it is gone forever. Meanwhile with a digital copy of a song, I can create as many archival copies as I would like. Lossless codecs allow musicians to record at whatever fidelity they want - bound only by what they're capable of - not what the prevailing standard of some disc or player is locked at.subrosian

The future is digital whether you like it or not - it's one of the only ways producers are going to be able to secure their content - which they will do - and it's simply a path we need to accept now.subrosian

Sony pushes Blu-Ray as some kind of magic bullet for the PS3, because it allows for more gameplay to be packed into each game. They like to say things like "You can't make this game on the 360 because it doesn't have blu-ray"..

What I find ironic about Sony is that you can take every AA and AAA exclusive on the PS3, add up all their gameplay together and get something like 20 hours of TOTAL gameplay.. Which is about the same amount of gameplay in Mass Effect.

Don't believe me? Lets look at the facts:

MGS4 5 hours of gameplay (when ignoring the snoozefest movie cutscenes)
LBP 3 hours of gameplay for the story mode
Heavenly Sword 4 hours of gameplay
Resistance 5 hours of gameplay
Drake 3 hours of gameplay

Yet when reviewers say that Fable 2 has 12 hours if you only do the main quest, PS3 fanboys are the first to bash how short it is.

WillieBeamish

[QUOTE="WillieBeamish"][QUOTE="rockguy92"][QUOTE="WillieBeamish"]

Sony pushes Blu-Ray as some kind of magic bullet for the PS3, because it allows for more gameplay to be packed into each game. They like to say things like "You can't make this game on the 360 because it doesn't have blu-ray"..

What I find ironic about Sony is that you can take every AA and AAA exclusive on the PS3, add up all their gameplay together and get something like 20 hours of TOTAL gameplay.. Which is about the same amount of gameplay in Mass Effect.

Don't believe me? Lets look at the facts:

MGS4 5 hours of gameplay (when ignoring the snoozefest movie cutscenes)
LBP 3 hours of gameplay for the story mode
Heavenly Sword 4 hours of gameplay
Resistance 5 hours of gameplay
Drake 3 hours of gameplay

Yet when reviewers say that Fable 2 has 12 hours if you only do the main quest, PS3 fanboys are the first to bash how short it is.

rockguy92

Uh what?

http://boards.ign.com/uncharted_drakes_fortune/b11422/157312031/r157315799/

One speed run from a guy on easy=length for everyone else?