Blu-Ray was not worth it for Sony.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#1 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

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Adonymous

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#2 Adonymous
Member since 2008 • 1664 Posts

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

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howell1972

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#3 howell1972
Member since 2008 • 305 Posts

Guess you did not see all the posts about the RAGE downgrades for the 360 due to dvd limitations. This is just the beginning.

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SolidTy

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#4 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

RyuHayabusaX

The PS3 has been selling well this entire year, and for MOVIE buffs, it's a good thing. I agree with your other point, but there are multimedia users out there that love features like GAMING and MOVIES.

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SolidTy

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#5 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

Adonymous

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#6 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts

I don't know about your $5 billion and where you got that #, but I'll agree that Microsoft has lost some money, but they still got profit(sorry can't linkify for some reason)

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19475

and they will get more because they have a very simple DVD drive. Sony still has to deal with the cost of the Blu-Ray drive so it'll be a while before their $3.3 billion loss will go green.

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Adonymous

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#7 Adonymous
Member since 2008 • 1664 Posts
[QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

SolidTy

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

exactly.

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SolidTy

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#8 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts

I don't know about your $5 billion and where you got that #, but I'll agree that Microsoft has lost some money,

RyuHayabusaX

That poster is RIGHT.

That's a known fact.

The Orginal XBOX was nothing but a HUGE MONEY PIT for Microsoft. They lost over 5 BILLION DOLLARS.

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SolidTy

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#9 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts
[QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

Adonymous

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

exactly.

I knew where you were going, but the TC didn't even know the Xbox was a failure.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#10 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

SolidTy

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

Blu-Ray might have been nice if Sony released it later on on PS4 maybe. Blu-Ray hasn't pulled them ahead of Microsoft yet and it hasn't saved them. Now it might still later but it wasn't necessary for PS3 to have success.
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Corvin

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#11 Corvin
Member since 2002 • 7266 Posts
Well I always said Blu-ray and the costs/delays it caused is the reason Sony lost my next-gen sale to Microsoft even though I was not much of a fan of the original Xbox. However, I'm currently entangled in Microsoft's next-gen blooper: shoddy hardware, specifically, the RRoD. I refuse to be caught in the nightmare of shoddy refurb replacements, if my replacement 360 dies on me I will get it replaced then promptly sell it and go back to Sony.
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RyuHayabusaX

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#12 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="Adonymous"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

SolidTy

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

exactly.

I knew where you were going, but the TC didn't even know the Xbox was a failure.

of course I know but MS didn't put themselves into another $2-3 billion debt by going with HD-DVD, which might have reduced sales because the price of the 360 would be a lot higher than $280 right now. They stayed with DVD and still found a way to compete with Sony without losing money on a drive that didn't matter too much. Sure developers wouldn't have minded to have games like Oblivion on a 30 GB HD-DVD, which would give them breathing room, but in the end the 360 is still very much alive and developers are finding ways around the 9 GB DVD.
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SolidTy

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#13 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts
[QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

RyuHayabusaX

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

Blu-Ray might have been nice if Sony released it later on on PS4 maybe. Blu-Ray hasn't pulled them ahead of Microsoft yet and it hasn't saved them. Now it might still later but it wasn't necessary for PS3 to have success.

But don't you see, BLU-RAY beat HDDVD! You see, SONY was thinking LONGTERM. You are only looking at the PS3. Sony is also looking at Electronic devices, movie formats, and more.

Sure, they want the PS3 to be successful, but they wanted BLU-RAY to be a standard, which it is NOW.

If Microsoft is using Blu-Ray for the Xbox 720, then SONY won. See how that works, it's envisioning the future. IS it a gamble?

Sure.

But that business for you.

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angelkimne

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#14 angelkimne
Member since 2006 • 14037 Posts

Disc movie formats is a much, much bigger market than games though.

And Ps3 made them win it.

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Adonymous

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#15 Adonymous
Member since 2008 • 1664 Posts
[QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

RyuHayabusaX

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

exactly.

I knew where you were going, but the TC didn't even know the Xbox was a failure.

of course I know but MS didn't put themselves into another $2-3 billion debt by going with HD-DVD, which might have reduced sales because the price of the 360 would be a lot higher than $280 right now. They stayed with DVD and still found a way to compete with Sony without losing money on a drive that didn't matter too much. Sure developers wouldn't have minded to have games like Oblivion on a 30 GB HD-DVD, which would give them breathing room, but in the end the 360 is still very much alive and developers are finding ways around the 9 GB DVD.

*FACEPALM*

Sony may have lost $2-3b...but now that Blu-Ray is dominant next-gen medium in a few years who'll be making $$$?

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RyuHayabusaX

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#16 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
Well I always said Blu-ray and the costs/delays it caused is the reason Sony lost my next-gen sale to Microsoft even though I was not much of a fan of the original Xbox. However, I'm currently entangled in Microsoft's next-gen blooper: shoddy hardware, specifically, the RRoD. I refuse to be caught in the nightmare of shoddy refurb replacements, if my replacement 360 dies on me I will get it replaced then promptly sell it and go back to Sony.Corvin
Good point, that's where Microsoft lost $1.1 billion, but it would have been utter disaster if they would have lost more money because of HD-DVD.
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club-sandwich

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#17 club-sandwich
Member since 2007 • 8399 Posts
actually it was, they won the format war.
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SolidTy

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#18 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts
[QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

RyuHayabusaX

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

exactly.

I knew where you were going, but the TC didn't even know the Xbox was a failure.

of course I know but MS didn't put themselves into another $2-3 billion debt by going with HD-DVD, which might have reduced sales because the price of the 360 would be a lot higher than $280 right now. They stayed with DVD and still found a way to compete with Sony without losing money on a drive that didn't matter too much. Sure developers wouldn't have minded to have games like Oblivion on a 30 GB HD-DVD, which would give them breathing room, but in the end the 360 is still very much alive and developers are finding ways around the 9 GB DVD.

Oh, of course.

Microsoft did a FANTASTIC job with their hardware being able to compete without nextgen media. Absolutely, however, they went into this generation with a HUGE Deficit, because the 360 was going to be their savior. Sure, RROD hurt them bad, but XBOX LIVE is like PRINTING MONEY. This is where they make their comeback.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#19 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

Adonymous

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

exactly.

I knew where you were going, but the TC didn't even know the Xbox was a failure.

of course I know but MS didn't put themselves into another $2-3 billion debt by going with HD-DVD, which might have reduced sales because the price of the 360 would be a lot higher than $280 right now. They stayed with DVD and still found a way to compete with Sony without losing money on a drive that didn't matter too much. Sure developers wouldn't have minded to have games like Oblivion on a 30 GB HD-DVD, which would give them breathing room, but in the end the 360 is still very much alive and developers are finding ways around the 9 GB DVD.

*FACEPALM*

Sony may have lost $2-3b...but now that Blu-Ray is dominant next-gen medium in a few years who'll be making $$$?

Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time.
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Koalakommander

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#20 Koalakommander
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They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

RyuHayabusaX

If anything, Blu-Ray is the reason Sony is still here. Think about the bigger picture.

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Adonymous

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#21 Adonymous
Member since 2008 • 1664 Posts

Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. RyuHayabusaX

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

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SolidTy

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#22 SolidTy
Member since 2005 • 49991 Posts
[QUOTE="Adonymous"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"][QUOTE="SolidTy"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

Xbox wasn't worth it for MS....they lost $5billion, and are still in the red on their games division.

RyuHayabusaX

It was a LONG TERM investment, like Blu-Ray is for Sony.

exactly.

I knew where you were going, but the TC didn't even know the Xbox was a failure.

of course I know but MS didn't put themselves into another $2-3 billion debt by going with HD-DVD, which might have reduced sales because the price of the 360 would be a lot higher than $280 right now. They stayed with DVD and still found a way to compete with Sony without losing money on a drive that didn't matter too much. Sure developers wouldn't have minded to have games like Oblivion on a 30 GB HD-DVD, which would give them breathing room, but in the end the 360 is still very much alive and developers are finding ways around the 9 GB DVD.

*FACEPALM*

Sony may have lost $2-3b...but now that Blu-Ray is dominant next-gen medium in a few years who'll be making $$$?

Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time.

Whether Blu-Ray is cheaper or not, IT's A STANDARD, like DVD. Got it.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#23 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

Koalakommander

If anything, Blu-Ray is the reason Sony is still here. Think about the bigger picture.

If Sony didn't use Blu-Ray, then the PS3 would have been released a lot earlier because of the difficulty, shortage, and price of the Blu-Ray drive at the time. The price could have possibly been around $300-$400 if they had gone with DVD.
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RyuHayabusaX

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#24 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. Adonymous

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.
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Adonymous

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#25 Adonymous
Member since 2008 • 1664 Posts
[QUOTE="Adonymous"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. RyuHayabusaX

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.

Sony will be 2nd place :|

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Koalakommander

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#26 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts
[QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

RyuHayabusaX

If anything, Blu-Ray is the reason Sony is still here. Think about the bigger picture.

If Sony didn't use Blu-Ray, then the PS3 would have been released a lot earlier because of the difficulty, shortage, and price of the Blu-Ray drive at the time. The price could have possibly been around $300-$400 if they had gone with DVD.

You have no proof of this. It can be argued that Blu-Ray is what is making PS3 a success right now.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#27 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

Koalakommander

If anything, Blu-Ray is the reason Sony is still here. Think about the bigger picture.

If Sony didn't use Blu-Ray, then the PS3 would have been released a lot earlier because of the difficulty, shortage, and price of the Blu-Ray drive at the time. The price could have possibly been around $300-$400 if they had gone with DVD.

You have no proof of this. It can be argued that Blu-Ray is what is making PS3 a success right now.

I don't feel like doing the research, but back when the PS3 was first being made, Blu-Ray drives made the PS3 cost around $900, they were hard to make, and that's why Sony had to delay the PS3. DVD drives are cheaper than Blu-Ray drives, and last I checked, the audience at E3 2006 went crazy when Kaz Harai said $599. If he had said $299 or $399, it would have been standard and there would have been plenty more PS3s to go around.
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RyuHayabusaX

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#28 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. Adonymous

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.

Sony will be 2nd place :|

Mine was a hypothetical situation if Microsoft happens to do amazing next gen. Don't forget, people will still be interested in whatever Nintendo has no matter what. Nintendo can easily come out with some virtual reality thing and take over 1st place or put Sony in 3rd place.
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#29 AdmiralDan
Member since 2003 • 1231 Posts
[QUOTE="Adonymous"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. RyuHayabusaX

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.

Adonymous has it wrong. Sony does not own the rights to Blu-ray.The Blu-ray disc asociation is a joint venture by 9 companies (Sony, Matsush**a, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung).

Wikipedia states : "Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu-ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

So no, Microsoft could very well partner with Samsung or Hitachi for BD drives in future consoles, leaving Sony out of the picture.

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Koalakommander

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#30 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts
[QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

RyuHayabusaX

If anything, Blu-Ray is the reason Sony is still here. Think about the bigger picture.

If Sony didn't use Blu-Ray, then the PS3 would have been released a lot earlier because of the difficulty, shortage, and price of the Blu-Ray drive at the time. The price could have possibly been around $300-$400 if they had gone with DVD.

You have no proof of this. It can be argued that Blu-Ray is what is making PS3 a success right now.

I don't feel like doing the research, but back when the PS3 was first being made, Blu-Ray drives made the PS3 cost around $900, they were hard to make, and that's why Sony had to delay the PS3. DVD drives are cheaper than Blu-Ray drives, and last I checked, the audience at E3 2006 went crazy when Kaz Harai said $599. If he had said $299 or $399, it would have been standard and there would have been plenty more PS3s to go around.

And now? Now it's on track to steal 2nd place from a cheaper console that has a better game library. Why? I wonder...

The Blu-Ray player did exactly what they wanted it too -- it made PS3 future proof. True, the HD era is still just beginning, but a few years from now when everyone is getting comfortable with their HDTVs, PS3 will already have a foothold in their homes.

I don't care how much money they lost last year, they are doing pretty swell right now.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#32 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. AdmiralDan

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.

Adonymous has it wrong. Sony does not own the rights to Blu-ray.The Blu-ray disc asociation is a joint venture by 9 companies (Sony, Matsush**a, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung).

Wikipedia states : "Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu-ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

So no, Microsoft could very well partner with Samsung or Hitachi for BD drives in future consoles, leaving Sony out of the picture.

Lol I kind of look stupid now but I could care less, I'm just learning more knowledge! So Sony really did the dirty work for Microsoft by rooting out the best HD disc for Microsoft to use next gen. Microsoft could have invested heavily into HD-DVD and made their 360 cost the same as what the PS3 used to cost, lose the same money, only to have HD-DVD come out on top, but they just stayed in the game with their DVD while Sony tried to look cool with Blu-Ray. America has started to buy a ton of HD LCDs and plasmas and whatnot within the past few years, but we're still not rich enough to buy all these Blu-Ray players and spend $30 on Blu-ray discs, but within the next gen, BD will become like DVD is today, but Sony tried early and lost money I guess?
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RyuHayabusaX

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#33 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

Koalakommander

If anything, Blu-Ray is the reason Sony is still here. Think about the bigger picture.

If Sony didn't use Blu-Ray, then the PS3 would have been released a lot earlier because of the difficulty, shortage, and price of the Blu-Ray drive at the time. The price could have possibly been around $300-$400 if they had gone with DVD.

You have no proof of this. It can be argued that Blu-Ray is what is making PS3 a success right now.

I don't feel like doing the research, but back when the PS3 was first being made, Blu-Ray drives made the PS3 cost around $900, they were hard to make, and that's why Sony had to delay the PS3. DVD drives are cheaper than Blu-Ray drives, and last I checked, the audience at E3 2006 went crazy when Kaz Harai said $599. If he had said $299 or $399, it would have been standard and there would have been plenty more PS3s to go around.

And now? Now it's on track to steal 2nd place from a cheaper console that has a better game library. Why? I wonder...

The Blu-Ray player did exactly what they wanted it too -- it made PS3 future proof. True, the HD era is still just beginning, but a few years from now when everyone is getting comfortable with their HDTVs, PS3 will already have a foothold in their homes.

I don't care how much money they lost last year, they are doing pretty swell right now.

Sony can become 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't really matter, they just want to make a profit sometime, and the way they released BD didn't help them make a profit sooner than they wanted to. They might make a profit later, but they could have gone with DVD and depended on their games library like Microsoft did. Now the name PlayStation isn't all that big as it was, but 2 years ago, after seeing the PS1 and PS2 selling 100 million+ each, people would have bought more PS3s if it were cheaper because of how powerful the brandname was back then, but Blu-Ray ruined it and it'll be hard to gain it back.
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Koalakommander

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#34 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts
[QUOTE="AdmiralDan"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. RyuHayabusaX

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.

Adonymous has it wrong. Sony does not own the rights to Blu-ray.The Blu-ray disc asociation is a joint venture by 9 companies (Sony, Matsush**a, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung).

Wikipedia states : "Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu-ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

So no, Microsoft could very well partner with Samsung or Hitachi for BD drives in future consoles, leaving Sony out of the picture.

Lol I kind of look stupid now but I could care less, I'm just learning more knowledge! So Sony really did the dirty work for Microsoft by rooting out the best HD disc for Microsoft to use next gen. Microsoft could have invested heavily into HD-DVD and made their 360 cost the same as what the PS3 used to cost, lose the same money, only to have HD-DVD come out on top, but they just stayed in the game with their DVD while Sony tried to look cool with Blu-Ray. America has started to buy a ton of HD LCDs and plasmas and whatnot within the past few years, but we're still not rich enough to buy all these Blu-Ray players and spend $30 on Blu-ray discs, but within the next gen, BD will become like DVD is today, but Sony tried early and lost money I guess?

lol listen to yourself, you are spelling out victory for Sony.

Next-Gen HD will be standard like you say, then PS3's will sell like nuts at less than $200. PS3 will probably be the next PS2 (maybe not 125 million of course) because of its Blu-Ray drive alone. They are already selling more then the 360s.

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linkin_guy109

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#35 linkin_guy109
Member since 2005 • 8864 Posts
sony was looking at what was best for there company, not what was best for the playstation, winning the format war was the big thing for them
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Koalakommander

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#36 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts
[QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]

They were already losing $300-$400 on their $600 launch PS3, and they still lost $3.3 billion on it because of the difficulty of creating the Blu-Ray laser drive. Microsoft found themselves in an unusual situation where they could still have success with DVD; few games would find too much difficulty to find itself on the 360. In other words, HD discs weren't necessary, and Microsoft saved money in the end by not going with HD-DVD.

Around 2012 for the next consoles, Blu-Ray will be necessary, but at least Microsoft didn't have to deal with what Sony did: collapse of their game division because of an HD disc. Sure Blu-Ray is nice for us, but Sony didn't find themselves in too many situations in which Blu-Ray saved them(MGS 4 is a good counterexample, but it has yet to save their console).

RyuHayabusaX

If anything, Blu-Ray is the reason Sony is still here. Think about the bigger picture.

If Sony didn't use Blu-Ray, then the PS3 would have been released a lot earlier because of the difficulty, shortage, and price of the Blu-Ray drive at the time. The price could have possibly been around $300-$400 if they had gone with DVD.

You have no proof of this. It can be argued that Blu-Ray is what is making PS3 a success right now.

I don't feel like doing the research, but back when the PS3 was first being made, Blu-Ray drives made the PS3 cost around $900, they were hard to make, and that's why Sony had to delay the PS3. DVD drives are cheaper than Blu-Ray drives, and last I checked, the audience at E3 2006 went crazy when Kaz Harai said $599. If he had said $299 or $399, it would have been standard and there would have been plenty more PS3s to go around.

And now? Now it's on track to steal 2nd place from a cheaper console that has a better game library. Why? I wonder...

The Blu-Ray player did exactly what they wanted it too -- it made PS3 future proof. True, the HD era is still just beginning, but a few years from now when everyone is getting comfortable with their HDTVs, PS3 will already have a foothold in their homes.

I don't care how much money they lost last year, they are doing pretty swell right now.

Sony can become 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't really matter, they just want to make a profit sometime, and the way they released BD didn't help them make a profit sooner than they wanted to. They might make a profit later, but they could have gone with DVD and depended on their games library like Microsoft did. Now the name PlayStation isn't all that big as it was, but 2 years ago, after seeing the PS1 and PS2 selling 100 million+ each, people would have bought more PS3s if it were cheaper because of how powerful the brandname was back then, but Blu-Ray ruined it and it'll be hard to gain it back.

I see you are the expert and that you work in Sony's financial wing. And if you don't already work for them you should get hired, because you are clearly much smarter then the Sony corporation.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#37 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="AdmiralDan"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. Koalakommander

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.

Adonymous has it wrong. Sony does not own the rights to Blu-ray.The Blu-ray disc asociation is a joint venture by 9 companies (Sony, Matsush**a, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung).

Wikipedia states : "Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu-ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

So no, Microsoft could very well partner with Samsung or Hitachi for BD drives in future consoles, leaving Sony out of the picture.

Lol I kind of look stupid now but I could care less, I'm just learning more knowledge! So Sony really did the dirty work for Microsoft by rooting out the best HD disc for Microsoft to use next gen. Microsoft could have invested heavily into HD-DVD and made their 360 cost the same as what the PS3 used to cost, lose the same money, only to have HD-DVD come out on top, but they just stayed in the game with their DVD while Sony tried to look cool with Blu-Ray. America has started to buy a ton of HD LCDs and plasmas and whatnot within the past few years, but we're still not rich enough to buy all these Blu-Ray players and spend $30 on Blu-ray discs, but within the next gen, BD will become like DVD is today, but Sony tried early and lost money I guess?

lol listen to yourself, you are spelling out victory for Sony.

Next-Gen HD will be standard like you say, then PS3's will sell like nuts at less than $200. PS3 will probably be the next PS2 (maybe not 125 million of course) because of its Blu-Ray drive alone. They are already selling more then the 360s.

If Microsoft decides to come out early again, I think people might be more willing to buy an Xbox 3 that has not only Blu-Ray but also has great games than an old PS3 or some new PS4 that might or might not have good games. Sony has a lot of time to sell their Blu-Ray drives now, but Blu-Ray will become even more standard next gen, and that's where Microsoft will steal money away from Sony, and Sony only has 3-4 years to make money with their monopoly on Blu-Ray gaming devices, but like I said, the sales in the next 3-4 years won't be as strong as it will be after 2011.
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#38 beachbob1
Member since 2007 • 518 Posts
I disagree with the argument that Sony was thinking long tern and won the format war. It's tuff to see that far in the future. The next Gen for movies may not see the sales DVD and VHS did. Haven't you noticed Blockbuster Video's ever shrinking bussiness model. The future for Movies is already here. DL Netflix/360 The next gen consoles will be powerhouses and you wil be surfing the net and downloading most of your games and movies imo. MP3 is still in its infancy and look what it has done to the music industry already.
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Albanian_Killa

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#39 Albanian_Killa
Member since 2007 • 1685 Posts
I love Blu-Ray on my 1080p TV. It was worth it. John Carmack himself applauded Sony for thinking long-term and using Blu-Ray. He said that's the reason RAGE will look better on the PS3 than the 360, as in the current state, that's what's happening. I think Blu-Ray was the right move. This is what I like about Sony, they're not afraid to go in a new direction in terms of gaming media. They did it for CD, DVD, and now Blu-Ray. Congratulations Sony for speeding up and bringing High Definition faster. It was because of the PS3 I decided to get an HDTV and damn I'm happy. Blu-Ray = #3 reason I love the PS3 apart from the game franchises (SOCOM being #1 for me) and free PSN. In the beginning, there's always losses, but by the end, there's massive profits.
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RyuHayabusaX

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#40 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
I'm sorry, I'm no expert, it's just business, you want to make money in business. WHo do you think you are then? We're just two guys on some forum talking about Sony. Some of the things I said are true and obvious though, Sony has lost the power of its PlayStation brand, and it won't be easy to get it back.
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Koalakommander

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#41 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts
[QUOTE="Koalakommander"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="AdmiralDan"][QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"][QUOTE="Adonymous"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Microsoft will be using Blu-Ray on Xbox 3 along with Sony's PS4, and by then the price of the Blu-Ray drive will be a lot cheaper, but Microsoft decided to wait for that time. RyuHayabusaX

And who will be making money off all those PS4 and Xbox 360 drives?

hmm...

You're absolutely right, but did Sony really say, "We've been 1st place twice in a row, let's become 3rd place now, lose a lot of billions, and get it back the 4th time"? They might have, and then you have to wonder that all that matters to these companies is profit, not having success in the gaming division. As in Microsoft might kick Sony's PS4 next gen with some cool exclusives but Sony will get money from the Blu-Ray drive and not care if they aren't first.

Adonymous has it wrong. Sony does not own the rights to Blu-ray.The Blu-ray disc asociation is a joint venture by 9 companies (Sony, Matsush**a, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung).

Wikipedia states : "Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu-ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

So no, Microsoft could very well partner with Samsung or Hitachi for BD drives in future consoles, leaving Sony out of the picture.

Lol I kind of look stupid now but I could care less, I'm just learning more knowledge! So Sony really did the dirty work for Microsoft by rooting out the best HD disc for Microsoft to use next gen. Microsoft could have invested heavily into HD-DVD and made their 360 cost the same as what the PS3 used to cost, lose the same money, only to have HD-DVD come out on top, but they just stayed in the game with their DVD while Sony tried to look cool with Blu-Ray. America has started to buy a ton of HD LCDs and plasmas and whatnot within the past few years, but we're still not rich enough to buy all these Blu-Ray players and spend $30 on Blu-ray discs, but within the next gen, BD will become like DVD is today, but Sony tried early and lost money I guess?

lol listen to yourself, you are spelling out victory for Sony.

Next-Gen HD will be standard like you say, then PS3's will sell like nuts at less than $200. PS3 will probably be the next PS2 (maybe not 125 million of course) because of its Blu-Ray drive alone. They are already selling more then the 360s.

If Microsoft decides to come out early again, I think people might be more willing to buy an Xbox 3 that has not only Blu-Ray but also has great games than an old PS3 or some new PS4 that might or might not have good games. Sony has a lot of time to sell their Blu-Ray drives now, but Blu-Ray will become even more standard next gen, and that's where Microsoft will steal money away from Sony, and Sony only has 3-4 years to make money with their monopoly on Blu-Ray gaming devices, but like I said, the sales in the next 3-4 years won't be as strong as it will be after 2011.

You honestly think people who jump into another gen early after this one? You think people are willing to drop big money for an Xbox 3 and its launch titles when games are still being pumped out for 360, PS3, and Wii?

I'll be waiting for that magical Xbox 3 with its amazingly good launch titles and blu-ray drive that will cause me to drop $500 on it.

Until that happens, neither of our words matter.

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Koalakommander

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#42 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts

I'm sorry, I'm no expert, it's just business, you want to make money in business. WHo do you think you are then? We're just two guys on some forum talking about Sony. Some of the things I said are true and obvious though, Sony has lost the power of its PlayStation brand, and it won't be easy to get it back. RyuHayabusaX

It lost power because MS got a head start, and PS3's game library had a slow build up (face it, people were buying PS3s plenty at the $600 price tag).

Blu-Ray helped it -- a lot.

The Wii also hurt it.

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Albanian_Killa

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#43 Albanian_Killa
Member since 2007 • 1685 Posts

I disagree with the argument that Sony was thinking long tern and won the format war. It's tuff to see that far in the future. The next Gen for movies may not see the sales DVD and VHS did. Haven't you noticed Blockbuster Video's ever shrinking bussiness model. The future for Movies is already here. DL Netflix/360 The next gen consoles will be powerhouses and you wil be surfing the net and downloading most of your games and movies imo. MP3 is still in its infancy and look what it has done to the music industry already.beachbob1

Downloading? :lol: If Sony took the downloading route now, no one would buy it. With bandwidth restrictions so messed up, I don't think DLC is the best method. Sure, 10 years from now, of course, but so far, no. First of all, Netflix streaming from what I hear is not HD. If someone can tell me if I'm right or wrong that would be great. Streaming eats up bandwidth too because data isn't coming in by magic here now. Netflix is easy in terms of you can watch any movie in a click, but I prefer hard copy. So far, content on the PSN Store and XBL Marketplace is in 720p from what I'm hearing. 1080p is better than 720p, which is why Blu-Ray is the future. I don't want DLC to be the future. Businesses will go bankrupt, and this world will become fatter than ever with everyone staying at home and not going outside. I know what you're thinking, wtf am I doing bringing this here. All I'm saying is that if the future is DLC, things are going to have to change a lot.

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RyuHayabusaX

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#44 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts
Blu-Ray drive won't be so expensive in 2012 that it will make Xbox 3 cost $500. It, as well as other parts like CPUs and GPUs, are getting cheaper. I'm not saying that Xbox 3 will be cheaper than $300, but it won't be using some new revolutionary HD disc drive that'll make it cost way too much because it'll have technology that will have been around for what, 6-7 years?
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Koalakommander

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#45 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts

Blu-Ray drive won't be so expensive in 2012 that it will make Xbox 3 cost $500. It, as well as other parts like CPUs and GPUs, are getting cheaper. I'm not saying that Xbox 3 will be cheaper than $300, but it won't be using some new revolutionary HD disc drive that'll make it cost way too much because it'll have technology that will have been around for what, 6-7 years?RyuHayabusaX

You can't be serious if you think a next-gen video game console is going to be under $300 with the U.S. dollar where it is now.

We don't even know the next-gen consoles will be anything like a standard video game box. I think they have to try something new.

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sireclaborn

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#46 sireclaborn
Member since 2008 • 1305 Posts

sony was looking at what was best for there company, not what was best for the playstation, winning the format war was the big thing for themlinkin_guy109

that would be true if this 2007. but with devs like kojima who praised the ps3 for extra space and that one guy who wants ms to let them have a third disk, meaning games are getting bigger, sony made the right choice and did think of whats best for the ps3/ they won the format war plus having blu-ray is a good selling point for the ps3.

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hiryu3

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#47 hiryu3
Member since 2003 • 7313 Posts
A multi billion dollar company knows way more and has more analysts doing research in the market and future trends than one single forum poster. Until you get a multi billion dollar company that is in competition with Sony, why don't we just leave the "this is what they should or shouldn't have done" comments up to them... ok?
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RyuHayabusaX

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#49 RyuHayabusaX
Member since 2005 • 7838 Posts

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Blu-Ray drive won't be so expensive in 2012 that it will make Xbox 3 cost $500. It, as well as other parts like CPUs and GPUs, are getting cheaper. I'm not saying that Xbox 3 will be cheaper than $300, but it won't be using some new revolutionary HD disc drive that'll make it cost way too much because it'll have technology that will have been around for what, 6-7 years?Koalakommander

You can't be older then 14 if you think a next-gen video game console is going to be under $300 with the U.S. dollar where it is now.

We don't even know the next-gen consoles will be anything like a standard video game box. I think they have to try something new.

Umm, HELLO, did you read, I said "I'm not saying that Xbox 3 will be cheaper than $300" and I said that it won't be costing high BECAUSE of a new disc drive(because Microsoft will have Blu-Ray), I never said it won't cost high because I'm sure that some other new factor like a CPU or GPU or the transition into 3-D or Virtual Reality that might raise the price.
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Koalakommander

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#50 Koalakommander
Member since 2006 • 5462 Posts
[QUOTE="Koalakommander"]

[QUOTE="RyuHayabusaX"]Blu-Ray drive won't be so expensive in 2012 that it will make Xbox 3 cost $500. It, as well as other parts like CPUs and GPUs, are getting cheaper. I'm not saying that Xbox 3 will be cheaper than $300, but it won't be using some new revolutionary HD disc drive that'll make it cost way too much because it'll have technology that will have been around for what, 6-7 years?RyuHayabusaX

You can't be older then 14 if you think a next-gen video game console is going to be under $300 with the U.S. dollar where it is now.

We don't even know the next-gen consoles will be anything like a standard video game box. I think they have to try something new.

Umm, HELLO, did you read, I said "I'm not saying that Xbox 3 will be cheaper than $300" and I said that it won't be costing high BECAUSE of a new disc drive(because Microsoft will have Blu-Ray), I never said it won't cost high because I'm sure that some other new factor like a CPU or GPU or the transition into 3-D or Virtual Reality that might raise the price.

My fault.