Borderlands 2 VITA first review is in

5.4 at IGN... I don't think it's that bad. I've been playing it and I would give it a 7/10. Framerate sucks and the controls take some getting used to. I hate using the back touch pad.

See, I'm defending gamers in this and you are defending Gearbox.

I never thought Duke Nukem Forever would be any good, but I can certainly understand that other people thought it would be good. Same with Aliens, they were never honest about the game and sold it on CGI footage.

I was talking about respect to heil. If you seriously think that a company that lies to people and tries to sell them shit because 'oh, well they bought the IP and the game and they have to make money somehow' deserves ANY kind of respect from you as a gamer, than you are the sucker, my good sir. Because than companies are free to do anything to you.

Your excuse could go for pretty much any company that lies and cheats to get their product sold.

Your excuse could go for both Aliens and Duke Nukem Forever, so Gearbox is free of any blame. Yeah, right. I don't think that way, I'm sorry. Being a business doesn't excuse you to do anything.

"Sometimes they have to sell shit to you, that sir is THEIR job."

It is ?

That is in the job description or something ? Than how come so many game developers have never tried selling shit ? Because they weren't as idiotic as Gearbox and spent millions on a shit game ?

Being simply a business doesn't excuse you of anything. There is something called business ethics. And if I consider something unethical like what Gearbox has done, which means going through any means necessary to get, what they know is pure shit, sold to people, than I consider that unethical. And I would not give them my respect.

Lol defending gamers.

Also no i'm not defending gearbox, i'm defending the idea of what a business actually is.

Trust me i've been in one for 6 years now. I have suppliers trying to sell me 2 grade wood as 1 grade wood all the time. Also you're an idiot (i'm sorry) if you think companies don't lie to you.

It's the nature of business to make money and to make the consumer happy. But can you guess which companies are primarily worried about?

Also you wanna talk about business ethics? Look at the American Government, Look at the banks. LOL all that stuff is screwed beyond belief and the last thing they care about is ethics.

I never said what gear box did was ok. But as far as DNF goes, it's very clear what happened and it's ok in my book. If I spent millions acquiring something that needed to get out the door I wouldn't spend millions and millions more trying to fix what somebody else fucked up. Sometimes you have to cut your loses, polish what you have and try to make that capital back on your investment.

So do you think the banks deserve respect ? Because after all, all the money grabbing stunts they pulled off can be excused with 'we just tried to make money' as well.

Because that is where my original point began: Gearbox deserves zero respect for Aliens and DNF and they don't deserve my money.

You can call me an idiot all you want but I'll still stick to my believes. If a company actively tries to screw over gamers and sell games based on lies they won't get any of my respect nor any of my money.

Just because you 'understand' a business practice, doens't mean you have to be ok with it. I understand what virtual money is and how it caused all this shit that we are in now, globally. Doesn't mean I'm okay with that.

Who said anything about respect. I think you're looking to deeply into this. I never said I agreed with gearboxs decision or respect them.

We've had this discussion. Aliens I agree was a cluster ****. But duke nukem wasn't really their fault.

But what they did as a business with the duke nukem IP was the only thing they really could do and no you have to be ok with it sometimes, because unfortunately that's the way the world works.

If you caught wind of half the shit companies do you'd be living in a forest somewhere in a log cabin with no internet, no tv and no phone.

You gonna cancel your internet because of what ISPs are doing with net neutrality? You gonna throw away your phone because people at the foxconn factories are literally killing themselves making YOUR phone?

You gonna stop playing sports because most of those basketballs or footballs are sewed somewhere by a 4 year old kid in malaysian boy making 5 cents a day?

Because the way you're painting it you probably shouldnt even be on a computer right now.

Seriously dude get your head on straight.

The original discussion between me and Heil. The original comment you replied to:

You think I'm okay with these things ? You don't even know what you are arguing about anymore.

And if any gaming company tries to pull half of the stuff that Gearbox did with Aliens and DNF I'll sure as hell not be okay with that either. But there are plenty of developers and gaming companies that do care about customer relations. That do care about the long term longevity of a series.

Gearbox is probably working on other DN games. You think it was smart of them to damage the series as much as they did by releasing that abomination. Who the hell would be interesting in the IP they spent millions on now ?

Just because I agree with their business decision doesn't mean I have to respect it.

Also you just keep going round in circles.

Because you know what I just said is right. But yet you avoid the point I completely made.

You support companies who do bad REALLY bad shit that would put someones in stomach in knots. But god forbid you lie to gamers and make a bad game.

I mean common dude.

What the hell are you talking about anymore dude?

This is a gaming forum. I'm giving flak to a gaming company about lying and unethical business practices towards gamers and I give them hell for it.

Than you start calling me an idiot and say I don't know how businesses work.

And now I need to respond to you blaming me I'm okay with unethical business practices in other markets ?

Are you serious ? Quit switching the subject. The original post was about me not wanting to give respect or any of my money to Gearbox. Quit it with accusing me of supporting other unethical businesses without proof. Or prove that I'm okay with child labor and Foxconn business conditions.

Alright a gaming forum doesn't exclude the world around us. You do understand that right?

But I guess that's ok because now you're just avoiding answering me.

There's a world around us and while yes this is a gaming forum there's more out there and you seem to not understand that.

And yeah I do want you to respond because obviously it's too hard for you to because now the cats got your tongue.

So Gearbox is true blue evil?

What about all these other companies? You sure are supporting them now. Please i'd love for you to elaborate on your hypocrisy on that.

You don't support who tries to screw over people and get your money. Well surprise you actually are.

any game in particular you would want?I also think throwing in some free PS+ time would have been a good move.

No, you're avoiding answering me.

You make all these assumptions about me. That I'm wearing clothes made by child laborers and I'm okay with that. That I have a mobile phone made by Foxconn and that I'm okay with the situation there. You don't know shit about me.

You don't know where I got my clothes from, if they were clothes made by unethical working conditions or clothes I made my fucking self. You just assume something so you could make a point. And you failed.

Now common, I like to see your proof about me being okay with those kind of situations while accusing Gearbox of something.

Please back up all of your last sentences. Show me where I support unethical businesses. Put up or shut up.

Just because I agree with their business decision doesn't mean I have to respect it.

Also you just keep going round in circles.

Because you know what I just said is right, you probably have a phone that was made somewhere where working conditions are brutal and they make close to nothing.

But yet gearbox is a real true blue bad guy here. I mean randy pitchford? More like mussolini

You support companies who do bad REALLY bad shit that would put someones in stomach in knots. But god forbid you lie to gamers and make a bad game.

I mean common dude.

Because you know what I just said is right, you probablyhave a phone that was made somewhere where working conditions are brutal and they make close to nothing.

But yet gearbox is a real true blue bad guy here. I mean randy pitchford? More like mussolini

This post perfectly sums up what you are doing right now.

Instead of holding an actual argument you're accusing me of stuff you are just assuming.

You assume I have a phone made in poor working conditions.

Not only that you also assume that I'm perfectly ok with that

You don't know shit

And this:

You just over exaggerate anything I said.

In fact I never even came close to saying anything CLOSE to that. You are just making stuff up to have a discussion. I called him a liar. Now you say I'm calling him Mussolini ? are you for real, man ?

Well, go ahead. I'm done with you, mate. It's been nothing but calling me an idiot, blaming me about your own assumptions and twisting my words in to where they become absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Frankly, continuing this discussion any further would be a waste of my time.

Sure, go ahead and make assumptions about me. Like I'm going out now to buy and iPhone and some unethically produced clothes. Whatever you like, I'm sure you'll make something up in your head, real nice.

No I gave you the answers.

Alright, I asked first. It's the year 2014. By logical deduction I can conclude you as a gamer

at least have a

1) Smartphone

2) Gaming Console

3) Laptop or PC

4) A bank account.

5) An ISP provider

Hence supporting these companies. You can sit here and pout all day. But you should provide proof that you actually don't.

Because I know for certain that you have at least those 5 things. How?

Well you're posting on the internet.

You're doing it through a computer or smartphone.

You're talking about gaming consoles.

And you need money to survive if you're an adult and buy your goodies. Supporting one or more companies that have at least screwed people over and have tried to get your money.

Way to bounce out after you've been proven wrong.

Real mentalist right here ladies and gentlemen.

This is some crazy shit, like, are you inside of my head or something?

I would need EITHER a PC or smartphone not both, to post on the internet, not both smartass. So you can't know for certain about these five things.

Could be I have an ethical bank. Could be I'm doing this one someone elses PC. Could be that I use a PC provided by dozens of public buildings.

Now prove I don't make my clothes myself, nor buy them from an ethical business. Prove I don't wear second hand clothes. Prove that I buy them from stores that only sell child labor clothes.

Don't tell me I should prove I don't. Because you are the one making all these assumptions. You are the one GRASPING towards assumptions so you could make a point about something that has nothing to do with my original point about Gearbox.

Oh yeah. Mmmmmm, that feels so good.

You consider assumptions to be proof.

Just what I expected.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmm

Denial, defense and anger are often the sign that one is wrong. You're arguing semantics. But you wanna sit here and say no no no no no no no no no no no.

Just own up to it man. You're wrong and i'm right. I asked you questions and you still are denying me answers asking to prove it. Newflash I already did.

PROVE that I'M WRONG Ohh wait you can't because it'll give you up.

I already proved you wrong and you can't prove yourself right other than hazy answers.

Denial, defense and anger are often the sign that one is wrong.

You're wrong and i'm right.

Love how your mind keeps making stuff up in order for you to be right.

Hazy answers? I've been really clear.

You haven't proven a single fact that I support unethical business by owning a smartphone or child labor clothes.

I haven't seen a single piece of proof towards them.

Hahaha, assumptions again.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

assumptions are proof right ? You've certainly proven to think that way

Hahahahaha

And I'm not angry at you. I'm enjoying myself :)

Yup, keep repeating that in your head. And in your reality it'll be true.

LOL

And instead of answering you haven't been clear one Iota.

You're a funny guy. You don't answer, you use hazy answers such as "I could be posting this from someone else pc" or "could be I have an ethical bank"

Instead of proving yourself right and me wrong.

Fine by me, in reality that leads me to believe you can't back up your answers. You know how? Avoidance. Why can't you take 5 minutes and instead of going around in circles just prove me wrong and make

me look like a laughing stock.

Also calling me a smartass isn't angry or defensive? Whatever you say brah.

Yeah, it's very hard to read a persons emotions when both of the people discussing are behind a PC. And the means to express themselves are trough written text.

I see, so calling you a smartass means I'm angry and can't stand losing to you. But you calling me an idiot since this discussion first started, is of course, totally alright.

At least I don't assume (lol) you're angry for calling me an idiot. That's jumping the gun, you know, something you've been doing all this time.

Assuming something about me, without knowing jack shit about me, making that assumption out to be proof and totally real and going with them. I've just been sitting here pondering. Pondering how your mind works and if you're having this discussion on you're own.

Comparing Pitchford to mussolini ... how on earth do you come up with stuff like that? What I said is nowhere near that caliber. You can look it up but I believe my exact words were that he was a liar and a cheat.... And you make that out to be something way worse than it was.

Frankly I don't have to do anything to prove you're wrong. Not a single thing.

You have told me that:

a) I buy products from unethical companies

and

b) That I'm totally fine with doing such things.

Those are both assumptions. I don't have to answer anything or prove you wrong. You brought them up. You haven't proven neither a) nor b) when it comes to smartphones, clothes or anything you said.

Your turn, bruv :)

More bullshit. Keep running around in circles not proving me wrong.

That's fine with me.

Oh you.

You seem to have this weird idea stuck in your head that I need to prove you wrong. No, the one who makes the claim has to bring the proof, I don't have to prove you wrong.

You want to go ahead and prove a) and b) than that's fine by me. Otherwise there would be no point to our last 10 posts or so.

You want to go ahead and tell me how your brain jumps from calling someone a liar and cheat to comparing them to a terrible dictator, that would also be fine by me. It would give me some insight on how you see this discussion.

See you can't prove me wrong.

You're just posting nonsense now.

Prove me wrong.

Also I already brought the proof. You sir have not.

Assumptions aren't proof.

Prove that I have a smartphone made in Foxconn.

Prove that I buy child labor clothes.

You said I was ok with the situations of child labor and Foxconn. Prove it.

You haven't proven anything. Yet you expect to make claims and me proving you wrong.

That's not how it works. Have you heard about Russells teapot ?

And you sir haven't proven anything either.

And yes I have.

Makes me wanna ask you. Have you heard of defeasible reasoning?

Seems like we're in quite a conundrum.

But nonetheless you have not proven me wrong either. Where as in my case I went on the attack provided ample material which you could not confirm nor deny.

Where did I use defeasible reasoning?

I can show you plenty of examples however of you making claims about me without backing up anything, except for you assumptions, which you see as prove, and then asking me to prove you wrong.