British Politician Defends His Call For Medal Of Honor Ban

If you can't draw the line between games and real life than
-People who play FPS will become murderers and the people who shoot up schools.
-People that play games like GTA will become gangsters and car thieves.

I don't understand why people get upset. I understand that you understand though.

Doesn't sound like a very fun game but if it was of course I would play it. I'm not doing anything wrong am I? As I'm killing NPCs and not real human beings.

R4gn4r0k

'Oh well you can run over people in GTA and that happens in real life too!' - what is your point? Who is saying that anything which happens in a videogame which may also happen in real life = bad? Who made that point?

For the last time, the game is set not only in the middle east, and not only in afghanistan but in the ACTUAL AREA of afghanistan were the most blood has been shed and the most people have lost their lives. It's too raw, and too real for some people, especially those who have lost their children or brothers over there. To watch footage of a videogame were the taliban yell 'stop them at all costs!' and start shooting up soldiers in helmand province is obviously not a pleasant experience for the many people who've lost loved ones in the war, is it?

Why are we pretending that we 'dont get it'? I'm sure you're very much aware of why some people are upset. It's obvious to say the least.

What difference does it make? Either way you are killing another nation's citizens and portraying them in a bad light. People really need to get over it, I have enough friends in the military and they don't call for these bans, infact they are PLAYING these games while there. I always ask them why they play Modern Warfare when they are doing the real thing, most of them just laugh but really it seems that the soccer moms and politicians are the only people who get hurt or offended over such things.

Espada12

[QUOTE="kipohippo021"]Im suprised they didnt do this to assasins creed two. *Spoiler In the ending, the final "boss" was the pope. Id think that people would be more insulted by you killing a pope then being some random taliban shooting at some random soilider.thespywholied

The popes called crusades back then. So they were not all that ''good''.

But i argee the Nazis are far far worse then the taliban.

Hell in company of Heroes there is a mission when your in a tiger and blow up loads of british troops and tanks. Infact you blow their limbs off aswell.

Actually, I haven't quite got to the end of the game yet but I'm guessing he is a Borgia, calling for crusades are the least of your worries. The Borgias were one of the most evil families in history and infiltrated the upper echelons of many of europes governing bodies at the time.

The problem I'm having with Liam Fox is here

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/liam_fox/north_somerset

He strongly supported the Iraq war. People can die for him in a largely pointless war but heaven forbid people sit at home playing pixellated depictions of conflict. Just another massive tory hypocrite.

We don't have to agree with everything but we should prize our freedom of speech enough to not throw the ban stick at everything we consider tasteless. Otherwise our societies would end up staid and boring.

This is a complete logical fallacy. Who said this IS real life? It's quite obviously a video game. You don't need to point that out. And once again you're bringing up examples which are simply nothing like this.

'Oh well you can run over people in GTA and that happens in real life too!' - what is your point? Who is saying that anything which happens in a videogame which may also happen in real life = bad? Who made that point?

For the last time, the game is set not only in the middle east, and not only in afghanistan but in the ACTUAL AREA of afghanistan were the most blood has been shed and the most people have lost their lives. It's too raw, and too real for some people, especially those who have lost their children or brothers over there. To watch footage of a videogame were the taliban yell 'stop them at all costs!' and start shooting up soldiers in helmand province is obviously not a pleasant experience for the many people who've lost loved ones in the war, is it?

Why are we pretending that we 'dont get it'? I'm sure you're very much aware of why some people are upset. It's obvious to say the least.

Ninja-Hippo

Yeah we're not getting anywhere because we are just repeating what we already said.

It's just that the people getting upset over videogames like GTA, Bully and now this are the ones who know nothing about it. For example this Minister doesn't know that you can't actually shoot Brits. And the people complaining about Bully thought the game would be about bullying ...

Let me ask you something. If the province would be named 'Hilmond' in game and the Taliban fighters would get a different skin and would be called 'Politically challenged people' would it be fine then ?

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="zekere"]

I can GUARANTEE they were trained by western forces .

zekere

Support, yes, but initially trained by Western organisations to end the Russian invasion, with success, which is why the operation in Afganistan is such a failure .

no, that's wrong, it was the Mujahadeen who defeated russian forces, not the taliban, they are two completely different people, in fact the mujahadeen are actually helping the west to defeat the taliban, i can see whwre you fail;ed to make the distinction though, not many people know that, i am an avid military historian having been in the army for 6 years, i have studied the Afghan/russiian war extensively, did you know that the americans theoretically won the vietnam war?delta3074

Can't see how considering the North ended up overtaking the south and communism still spread, but I'm interested to know how the Americans won. Also Osama was part of Mujahadeen (well fought along side them) which you probably know, it's part of the reason why people fail to make the distinction.

Man, he must of disliked the beta more than me! AYO!!vashkey

Lol, I doubt he ever played the game or ever will. But criticize it ... no problem.

[QUOTE="delta3074"]

no, that's wrong, it was the Mujahadeen who defeated russian forces, not the taliban, they are two completely different people, in fact the mujahadeen are actually helping the west to defeat the taliban, i can see whwre you fail;ed to make the distinction though, not many people know that, i am an avid military historian having been in the army for 6 years, i have studied the Afghan/russiian war extensively, did you know that the americans theoretically won the vietnam war?Espada12

Can't see how considering the North ended up overtaking the south and communism still spread, but I'm interested to know how the Americans won. Also Osama was part of Mujahadeen (well fought along side them) which you probably know, it's part of the reason why people fail to make the distinction.

I actually thought you were talking about the real award for a second. :P

I think the game is offensive as the war is still going on. WW2 and Vietnam were a long time ago, but real people are still dieing in Afganistan

Wouldn't it be great if a politian had the b******'s to respond to these questions with "don't you think I have more serious matters to deal with than some videogame...", still I suppose that would require a politician with a pair wouldn't it.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]

no, that's wrong, it was the Mujahadeen who defeated russian forces, not the taliban, they are two completely different people, in fact the mujahadeen are actually helping the west to defeat the taliban, i can see whwre you fail;ed to make the distinction though, not many people know that, i am an avid military historian having been in the army for 6 years, i have studied the Afghan/russiian war extensively, did you know that the americans theoretically won the vietnam war?delta3074

Can't see how considering the North ended up overtaking the south and communism still spread, but I'm interested to know how the Americans won. Also Osama was part of Mujahadeen (well fought along side them) which you probably know, it's part of the reason why people fail to make the distinction.

That's kind of like saying the Trojans won because they accepted the horse. The fact that Vietnam, and Cambodia which U.S. completely messed up, ended up Communist mean that the U.S. very much lost the war.

Politicians should make this world a great place to live in, they have NO BUSSINESS in the virtual world .

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]

no, that's wrong, it was the Mujahadeen who defeated russian forces, not the taliban, they are two completely different people, in fact the mujahadeen are actually helping the west to defeat the taliban, i can see whwre you fail;ed to make the distinction though, not many people know that, i am an avid military historian having been in the army for 6 years, i have studied the Afghan/russiian war extensively, did you know that the americans theoretically won the vietnam war?delta3074

Can't see how considering the North ended up overtaking the south and communism still spread, but I'm interested to know how the Americans won. Also Osama was part of Mujahadeen (well fought along side them) which you probably know, it's part of the reason why people fail to make the distinction.

Ah ok, and yea I know Osama isn't taliban but he is believed to be affiliated, he is Al-Queda.

[QUOTE="delta3074"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Can't see how considering the North ended up overtaking the south and communism still spread, but I'm interested to know how the Americans won. Also Osama was part of Mujahadeen (well fought along side them) which you probably know, it's part of the reason why people fail to make the distinction.

Chemical_Viking

That's kind of like saying the Trojans won because they accepted the horse. The fact that Vietnam, and Cambodia which U.S. completely messed up, ended up Communist mean that the U.S. very much lost the war.

Politicians should make this world a great place to live in, they have NO BUSSINESS in the virtual world .

zekere

Politicians who run the country have every business in the virtual world. They are responsible for the countries health. I would say that international responders to Liam Fox have much less right to comment than even he does, I just don't agree with him. British Military is his area.We may not like politicians or the things they say all the time but their job is to get involved, we don't want them to turn their backs on the UK gaming industry so instead of ignoring him or telling him to ignore us it would be better to engage with him and let him know why he is wrong in this case.

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

[QUOTE="delta3074"]at the TET offensive in 68 the viet cong where finished as a fighting force and by the time the last american troops left they had passified 95% of south vietnam,but they where comitted to vietnamisation and withdrawal, the moment the last troops left it all fell apart, the ARVN did not have the will to fight and where easily crushed by the NVA. and ,ironically,the mujahadeen actually want osama's head as badly as everybody else, and osama isn't taliban either.delta3074

That's kind of like saying the Trojans won because they accepted the horse. The fact that Vietnam, and Cambodia which U.S. completely messed up, ended up Communist mean that the U.S. very much lost the war.

The war wasn't to stop communism spreading to the whole world at all. What an absurd suggestion. It was to stop the spread in an area of the world where it had roots and the war failed in that respect because almost the whole area became communist and some of it still is today even though the movement has declined greatly elsewhere. The U.S. lost because they failed to do what they set out to do.

[QUOTE="zekere"]

Politicians should make this world a great place to live in, they have NO BUSSINESS in the virtual world .

Chemical_Viking

Politicians who run the country have every business in the virtual world. They are responsible for the countries health. I would say that international responders to Liam Fox have much less right to comment than even he does, I just don't agree with him. British Military is his area.We may not like politicians or the things they say all the time but their job is to get involved, we don't want them to turn their backs on the UK gaming industry so instead of ignoring him or telling him to ignore us it would be better to engage with him and let him know why he is wrong in this case.

conservatives pulled the labour initiative which gave grants and tax breaks to developers in the UK :S bit of a dick move.But i have a hatred for tories for their privatisation of loads of stuff....a lot of industry went away up here and boy if they bugger over this country with their so called reforms again i might just find a way of murdering every last bleeding member of their party.

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

[QUOTE="zekere"]

Politicians should make this world a great place to live in, they have NO BUSSINESS in the virtual world .

razgriz_101

Politicians who run the country have every business in the virtual world. They are responsible for the countries health. I would say that international responders to Liam Fox have much less right to comment than even he does, I just don't agree with him. British Military is his area.We may not like politicians or the things they say all the time but their job is to get involved, we don't want them to turn their backs on the UK gaming industry so instead of ignoring him or telling him to ignore us it would be better to engage with him and let him know why he is wrong in this case.

conservatives pulled the labour initiative which gave grants and tax breaks to developers in the UK :S bit of a dick move.But i have a hatred for tories for their privatisation of loads of stuff....a lot of industry went away up here and boy if they bugger over this country with their so called reforms again i might just find a way of murdering every last bleeding member of their party.

Let's just say I live in a traditional labour area of the country, and it is traditionally labour because of what the tories have been prepared to do to it over the years. They don't care about the north and I'm with you, I don't trust them. But there are good eggs and bad eggs, and there's no point acting like liam fox has no right to comment on this issue. He has every right.

When it's the Russians, the Taliban, the Al Qaeda etc. no one seems to care, what has the world come to.

This is government overstepping its boundaries at its finest.

Thoughroughly un-British...

Seriously, why do I live in this country?

PS: Just realised how un-British that statement was :P

Thoughroughly un-British...

Seriously, why do I live in this country?

PS: Just realised how un-British that statement was :P

firefluff3

Cause were that far up the crapper theres no point in moving...Tories will dick over us working class and the fatcats and upper class will get richer.It always happens look at the thatcher era and companies ike Rover....

The 'people' seem to understand that gaming =/= reality, more so than their leaders. Which is rather upsetting.

Also, why can't he just tell the people that he doesn't like this game? Why does it have to be a ban right away? These politicians are powercrazy. I'd be careful putting people like that in power.

[QUOTE="firefluff3"]

Thoughroughly un-British...

Seriously, why do I live in this country?

PS: Just realised how un-British that statement was :P

razgriz_101

Cause were that far up the crapper theres no point in moving...Tories will dick over us working class and the fatcats and upper class will get richer.It always happens look at the thatcher era and companies ike Rover....

when its nazi's or the Vietnamese its okay but when its the taliban its suddenly wrong? doesn't compute with meChris_Williams

DR liam Fox no he is not a doctor of military history or even history he's a GP and somehow that makes him qualified to not only comment on something he clearly knows nothing about but also to be minister of defence. "sigh" I love politics.sonny2dap

He is an elected representative of the people and a former civilian miltary doctor. Whether you like it or not, he is qualified to speak about this and if proving him wrong is the order of the day the important thing will be to prove the gaming community can be mature and adult about debates within its community.

when its nazi's or the Vietnamese its okay but when its the taliban its suddenly wrong? doesn't compute with meChris_Williams

[QUOTE="sonny2dap"]DR liam Fox no he is not a doctor of military history or even history he's a GP and somehow that makes him qualified to not only comment on something he clearly knows nothing about but also to be minister of defence. "sigh" I love politics.Chemical_Viking

He is an elected representative of the people and a former civilian miltary doctor. Whether you like it or not, he is qualified to speak about this and if proving him wrong is the order of the day the important thing will be to prove the gaming community can be mature and adult about debates within its community.

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

[QUOTE="sonny2dap"]DR liam Fox no he is not a doctor of military history or even history he's a GP and somehow that makes him qualified to not only comment on something he clearly knows nothing about but also to be minister of defence. "sigh" I love politics.KungfuKitten

He is an elected representative of the people and a former civilian miltary doctor. Whether you like it or not, he is qualified to speak about this and if proving him wrong is the order of the day the important thing will be to prove the gaming community can be mature and adult about debates within its community.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you cannot speak on the issue. Far from it. If YOU can, then HE also can. That's the problem with people saying "Who is he to say this". etc etc. He has every right to comment on the issue, and we have every right to offer a rebuttle. I do not support banning or censorship. The way to make our case though is not through childish posturing , pouting, threatening him and calling him a racist, but by proving that the gaming community is mature enough to handle themes like these.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you cannot speak on the issue. Far from it. If YOU can, then HE also can. That's the problem with people saying "Who is he to say this". etc etc. He has every right to comment on the issue, and we have every right to offer a rebuttle. I do not support banning or censorship. The way to make our case though is not through childish posturing , pouting, threatening him and calling him a racist, but by proving that the gaming community is mature enough to handle themes like these.

Chemical_Viking

It's particularly amusing because games like CoD and MoH usually glorify the Western military forces, so I don't know how they would classify as 'unbritish'.

That, and something allegedly being 'unbritish' isn't a very good reason to deny everyone access to that product. Especially when no Brits even appear in the game.

*Yawns*

A politician stirring up **** in the media over a non-issue, how novel.

I think he's just trying to score some brownie points with the families of fallen soldiers. I'm sure David Cameron has enough common sense to realise it's only a game and tell Fox to calm down.

MoH won't get banned so there's nothing to worry about.

Another politician trying to make a name for themselves by bashing on something he knows virtually nothing about. You have to understand most elderly people like this assume only little kids and teenagers play videogames; so what better way to get your name out there than bash something that possibly only effects this age group that has no voting power. He doesnt care about the game, or the british army or afganistan he is just trying to get his name out their by starting some idiot crusade.

The most worrying part about this? Fox is shooting his mouth off about something he clearly misconstrued. He didn't know what he was talking about. He didn't have all the facts. Total cowboy stuff.TheShadowLord07

:roll: What would we do without you, Kotaku?

Nothing to see here, really. He saw a seemingly easy angle and took it, because he's a politician. Even people who disagree with the Taliban being in multi (and I admit it's not completely indefensible to say that it's in poor taste) should realize that banning a game/film/book because it's upsetting to some people is a horrible standard to set.

If the Taliban fighters would get a different skin and would be called 'Politically challenged people' would it be fine then ?

R4gn4r0k

I kinda agree. I mean i wouldn't get all bent out of shape about it like he is, but it's a stupid move on EA's part. Notice how every other game featuring middle east conflict uses made-up names? There's a reason for that. Actually having a fight take place in Helmand province, where so many have been killed, is just stupid and insensitive. Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]I kinda agree. I mean i wouldn't get all bent out of shape about it like he is, but it's a stupid move on EA's part. Notice how every other game featuring middle east conflict uses made-up names? There's a reason for that. Actually having a fight take place in Helmand province, where so many have been killed, is just stupid and insensitive. shroofnayef

[QUOTE="shroofnayef"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"]I kinda agree. I mean i wouldn't get all bent out of shape about it like he is, but it's a stupid move on EA's part. Notice how every other game featuring middle east conflict uses made-up names? There's a reason for that. Actually having a fight take place in Helmand province, where so many have been killed, is just stupid and insensitive. Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

If the Taliban fighters would get a different skin and would be called 'Politically challenged people' would it be fine then ?

Ninja-Hippo

You said many games use a different name than the real one to avoid stuff like this.

Now I'm asking if it would make a difference if they did that to this game, and it's ridiculous. Why ?

[QUOTE="Chris_Williams"]when its nazi's or the Vietnamese its okay but when its the taliban its suddenly wrong? doesn't compute with meJohnF111

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="shroofnayef"] But, its perfectly fine to demonize and kill Arabs and Russians in your countries though right? double standars :roll:shroofnayef

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

If the Taliban fighters would get a different skin and would be called 'Politically challenged people' would it be fine then ?

R4gn4r0k

You said many games use a different name than the real one to avoid stuff like this.

Now I'm asking if it would make a difference if they did that to this game, and it's ridiculous. Why ?

[QUOTE="shroofnayef"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] What? :? Ninja-Hippo

[QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Now you're just being ridiculous. :|Ninja-Hippo

You said many games use a different name than the real one to avoid stuff like this.

Now I'm asking if it would make a difference if they did that to this game, and it's ridiculous. Why ?

I think he meant "skin" in the video game sense... :|