Can we agree Naughty Dog is the best 1st party developer?

@lostrib said:

@GreySeal9 said:

@playharderfool said:

@GreySeal9 said:

@MonsieurX said:

Why do mature gamers need to play mature games?

This quote has been used on SW many times, but C.S. Lewis's incredibly wise quote on this issue applies to gpuking.

"Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

"The words adult and child exist for a reason, it's up to the individual to decide how these terms are looked at", by Playharderfool

Also, come to think of it, this statement is not even coherent. You say that the words exist for a reason (though you are either too lazy or incapable of fleshing out this reason; without fleshing it out, you're simply offering a banality), implying that they have a specific meaning, but then you imply in the second part of the comment that the terms are subjective. Not to mention that nobody actually denied the distinction between child and adult; the Lewis quote actually clearly offers differences between childhood and adulthood. He just doesn't base the difference on trivialities.

My advice would be to not try and post a quote of your own because I used a Lewis quote. You're way out of your depth. Stick to being a Sony soldier.

I think even TC would agree that UC is for the children

lol. He's never going to live that down.

They made 2 play it safe 3rd person action games. Their best skill seems to be presentation/graphics... but their gameplay is usually pretty standard. I'd even say TLOU gameplay was worse. I'd consider nintendo to be doing more creatively than ND since ND seems to have lost their creativety on the gameplay side. And just because Ninty uses a lot of old IP's its usually more of like the wallpaper someone chooses to build a house. If you look at mario 64, sunshine, galaxy... they are all platformers with the same wallpaper but Ninty isn't just remaking the same game with some new spectacle set pieces.

Theres is nothing safe when you dropping 1 of the most well known and established platforms of PS2 with an already huge fanbase to make a new ip from scratch .. literally nothing is safe.

Have you see UC4 ? You call that experience only presentation and graphics ? What about direction from X director ? What about the quality of levels design ? Geometry of the world ? Voice acting ? Story ? Physics ? Sound design ? Soundtracks ? Gameplay elements combined together ( you cant call UC series for exampel a traditional shooter like lets say Gears ) ? ... You think all those things in order to put together and win both industry and press awards again and again is easy ....? Well guess again ... Its not. Thats something Nintendo havent tried since N64 evolution and tradition from 2d to 3d. They playing safe , something that ND could easily have done with JAK.

As of now , ND is on entirely other level ... UC4 made literally thousand of gamers around the world go nuts not with tricks , not with nostalgia elements ,not with epic cutscenes ( like Blizz does for example ) fancy controllers or because of well established icons ... but because of PURE gaming elements and high productions values in game demo .... for a reason ... And that reason is .. they are fuking great with what they doing and thats a great developer !

I hope Nintendo get their shit straight and try to evolutionized their main franchises further because very few care anymore unlike other times or even better , to try to provide new ips for once after so long .. They have the money , the talent and the experience to do so...

This is a very good point.

Thats not a good point for the fact that Mario is a platform , it can have such evolution by default. What about Kart and Smash that they cant have what Mario has... The core design is the same over and over. Or even Zelda became stale with the last 2 games of TP and SS.

in N64 era you could tell Nintendo was the best developer around , tied with Blizzard only later on. But now , Nintendo is NOT what they used to be in N64 era .. not even close . They need to get their shit together and deliver ...They trying but is not enough and that reflects on Wii Us sales. Its not only about scores and nostalgia etc anymore ... Its about evolution , revolution of genres and follow the flow of different gaming eras.

So , lets not talk about the past ... we talking who is the best developer in 2015 and beyond ... not about 1996...

In response to the bolded: nice opinion but I'd say that the Galaxy games are much better than anything that Nintendo made during the 64 era and easily the best games of last gen. Nintendo can be lazy these days and they go the cheap route but at their best they are unparalleled. ND have proven themselves with two excellent titles but they don't show the same timeless design and creativity that the Galaxy games do. I suspect that the UC games won't age as well as Galaxy 1 and 2.

I don't see why you think that platformers can have more evolution by default. Can you elaborate?

They went for the COD crowd with uncharted, its a safer franchise with "mass appeal" on the HD systems.

I'm not talking about the past. I think the Galaxy games outclassed everything last gen. Of course that's not meant to downplay ND's accomplishments but I simply don't think their games reach the heights of Ninty at their best.

There were different mechnics between n64/sunshine/galaxy. Fundamentally Nintindo tried new things. My complaint with ND is they went backwards. They took, a great game series Jak, and dove into the dum pretty shooters. On a game design perspective I think almost any of the top tier game dev's are better than ND, on a technical level I think ND is up their with some of the best.

I'd say Nintendo.

Best Zelda game since Link to the Past. Okay then, but I'm not a Zelda fan so I probably wouldn't jump on the wagon. To me TLOU > Zelda LBW. And it's not like it's an uncommon opinion too based on both games acclaim and reception.

But my point was more that Nintendo EAD bring a lot of filler shit out and it doesn't automatically wipe the floor with other shit out there. Like 3D World is a neutered 3D Mario game in almost every aspect. But would automatically get the vote by most people as the best 3D paltformer of 2013 because Nintendo EAD, while a good contender for that title like Tearaway would completely be ignored in the conversation because lolvita and lolnonnintendoplatformers. See what I'm saying? As far as I'm concerned I'd rather play Mario Sunshine than that game. Coming after the amazing Galaxy 2 doesn't help it's case either. There's a jarring disconnect in quality with the game.

Though regarding the topic directly, Nintendo EAD >>>>> Naughty Dog since boths inception.

Hahaha that is really funny. And I agree too. Retro >>>>>>>>>> Naughty Dog for Prime alone.

200?!?! Seriously O_o

I keep trying to find this list of GOAT that everyone keeps talking about? All i can find is the metacritic one.

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all/filtered

And there aren't any Naughty Dog titles in the top 5 that's for sure? Is there some other one that your using?

@bobrossperm: I do see what you are saying. Its the nature of the board we are on that if I feel TLOU is a great game but not the holy Eucharist its made out to be and I do prefer my Xbox then that is the reason. ALBW had some gameplay elements that just made it a c*nt hair over TLOU for me.

And again the nature of this board sometimes, because you were dead right with Tearaway. Great game.

Not the point of the whole post, my stance was that calling it genre-defining is incorrect, because if you looked at it in a genre sort of way then elements of that game don't look as strong. But none of the elements needed to be elite tier elements to work, it's how those pieces compliment each other. The last of Us isn't a Bayonetta where you know exactly why that game is special: The combat gameplay and the set pieces, variety, and boss fights built around that combat.

The Last of Us is the entire composition working as a whole. The plot would be too generic and derivative to work on its own, but conveyed the way the game is with the shooting mechanics that aren't as mow everything down as quickly as humanly possible friendly, with the light scavenging and streamlined splinter cell stealth is how that whole game goes.

On its own it's not what you scavenge necessarily, but over abundance of shit you can scavenge. The trade off for not using the shivs in combat, but opening like secret closets for instance, is way too one sided in the players favor, as the stealth more than accommodates rarely if ever using the shivs.

Dead Space in contrast has always been mediocre, in the case of 3 I assume it out right sucks if 2 was any indication lol

Also I'm all for punishing Nintendo for not being creative enough, but Naughty Dog isn't creative in any fucking fashion.

When have they ever actually innovated or done something unique? Their plot lines are straight to dvd version of better hollywood flicks (significantly better mind you) and the gameplay in both Uncharted and The Last of Us is heavily borrowed from long standing and far more influential franchises. Their claim to greatness isn't "creativity" it's straight up excellent execution in the case of Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us, you know the exact same thing Nintendo would be in the argument for.

Also just "making a new ip" isn't safe, making something actually new, foreign, and unique is unsafe. Making something that is right in line with things you've already done or are common place with the rest of the market is pretty safe.

@speedfreak48t5p: I think some of us can agree that you seem to like Naughtt Dog, but that's about it.

Gamespot GOTY's

2013 Zelda a link to the past

2007 super mario galaxy

2003 Zelda windwaker

2002 metroid prime

thats 4 in the last 15 years.

You talk a load of shit mate.

when was the last time an ND game scored a 10 here on GS?

Gamespot GOTY's

2013 Zelda a link to the past

2007 super mario galaxy

2003 Zelda windwaker

2002 metroid prime

thats 4 in the last 15 years.

You talk a load of shit mate.

when was the last time an ND game scored a 10 here on GS?

opinions opinions opinions, gimme Jak and Daxter

Hasn't Naughty Dog never received Gamespot's GOTY?

This really is quite funny. For starters TLOU has 1 game with 1 DLC, that hardly constitutes a franchise. Second, "two IPs that are that popular within the same generation", you do realise Nintendo, every generation, releases a game for most of their insanely popular franchises? Wii U has Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Super Mario, Donkey Kong, there's going to be a new Zelda, and Monster Hunter gains in popularity with each game it releases, right?

They produce interactive movies, not games that can compete with the very best in terms of gameplay.

So no.

ND and Nintendo are tied i would say

Nintendo EAD. Easily. I mean, Nintendo thrive off first party software. It's the only reason their consoles are worthwhile.

Nintendo is great dev for kiddy gamers, ND is better for "the last of us" :P

Nintendo EAD Tokoyo says no.