Carmack- PS3 harder to develop for, limiting factor in multiplatform development

[QUOTE="linkin_guy109"]in other news the sun came up today, every here knows that the ps3 is hard to develop for initially, some devs are starting to really get the hang of it (insomniac)3picuri3

too bad 'getting the hang of it' means 'coping well with bottlenecks'.

unfortunately :P but some people here are making it seem like its an impossiblity to develop for the ps3, when its just really difficult

John Carmack and Tim Sweeney's opinions > the opinions of the Cows on System Wars.

I have been saying this for months, the Xbox 360 is better suited for gaming because of its high-powered graphics card and multi-cpu design. I don't care how powerful the Cell may be, there is no way to get around a weak GPU.

First off 360 guys shouldn't spout off about 2d graphics in Uncharted when yalls best game Geow has that same issue and to a worse extent, even trying to cover that up with haze. Gears very much has painted back grounds or green screen with an enviroment projected onto it.

Second is that rage vid ingame? And also people talking about how long KZ has been in development, well how long has Rage in in development? The last thing I've seen was the id5 engine has been in the works for 4 years, so when will Rage be on shelves? KZ2 has its own engine aswell and had to be made prior to KZ2 being made so there is the dev time in KZ2. Normally 4 years is a norm for an engine and a game to come out, so get off KZ2's back lol :) UE was first being talked about back in 2004 and the 360 got Geow in late 2006 so almost 3 years on that game per say. And if anyone thinks the UE hasn't got alot of limits to itself is just fooling themselves.

id's engines has always been alot better than the UE's so no surprise there but if the Rage vid wasn't gameplay then we all still got to wait and see what will be the final product. But if it opengl I'm happy about that cause it always produes lifelike enviroments while dxd just looks to video gamish if you know what I mean.

First off 360 guys shouldn't spout off about 2d graphics in Uncharted when yalls best game Geow has that same issue and to a worse extent, even trying to cover that up with haze. Gears very much has painted back grounds or green screen with an enviroment projected onto it.

Second is that rage vid ingame? And also people talking about how long KZ has been in development, well how long has Rage in in development? The last thing I've seen was the id5 engine has been in the works for 4 years, so when will Rage be on shelves? KZ2 has its own engine aswell and had to be made prior to KZ2 being made so there is the dev time in KZ2. Normally 4 years is a norm for an engine and a game to come out, so get off KZ2's back lol :) UE was first being talked about back in 2004 and the 360 got Geow in late 2006 so almost 3 years on that game per say. And if anyone thinks the UE hasn't got alot of limits to itself is just fooling themselves.

id's engines has always been alot better than the UE's so no surprise there but if the Rage vid wasn't gameplay then we all still got to wait and see what will be the final product. But if it opengl I'm happy about that cause it always produes lifelike enviroments while dxd just looks to video gamish if you know what I mean.

GreyFoXX4

Just no.

Unreal Engine 3 and Id-Tech 5 are far more advanced than any other console engine out there including the Killzone 2 and Uncharted engine.

John Carmack and Tim Sweeney's opinions > the opinions of the Cows on System Wars.

I have been saying this for months, the Xbox 360 is better suited for gaming because of its high-powered graphics card and multi-cpu design. I don't care how powerful the Cell may be, there is no way to get around a weak GPU.

bungie93

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"]That was a joke. I know EXACTLY what Carmack is. What utterly amazes me is that some of the mongoloid Cows in here are seriously questioning this guy's ability - let alone saying he should take lessons from a hack like Kojima.Pariah_001

My problem is that people like to use Carmack like he's some kind of living embodiment of the deus ex machina. Yes, I know he has had a lot of field work. Yes, I'm aware of the fact that he has trouble developing for the PS3. Now what exactly does that prove in regards to developing on the PS3? That it's too difficult to program for or that it's simply too radical for Carmack's set ways to tolerate?

if Carmack ends up botching the development of a game on the PS3 all the while "hacks" like Kojima, Naughty Dawg, Guerilla, and Insomniac are able to make fully functional games, what exactly do you think that says about Carmack's programming versatility?

please don't compare those to carmack.

[QUOTE="KinkInDaLink"][QUOTE="BlueHerb"]

Is this a Marketing ploy by MS or something? do these Bias developers every stop crying about the complexity of the PS3 hardware? get with the times, thats so ancient, devs now have over come these obsticles, know how? by not crying and whining but working and getting to know it.

yes i'm looking at you carmack and gabe...geezus.

MGS4, R&C, Uncharted, Killzone 2, Resistance 2 among many others have proven what the PS3 can do. These are just more excuses due to laziness or pure fanboyism.

BlueHerb

laziness? i don't think gabe or carmack are questioning you can get good results from the ps3, rather that it takes a lot more work to do so.

oh really?

What about insomniac and resistance 2? While its true to some extent due to the differences in hardware, EVERYONE KNOWS that..and its been said so many times, yet his still saying it, honestly why? whats he trying to prove? to get everyone to ditch the PS3 or something.

I have yet to see cutscenes as good as MGS4 in a 360 title, i have yet to see animations/reactions seen in Killzone 2 in a 360 title. I have yet to see a 360 console game coming out as good as Killzone 2, visually.

While it takes a little more time, its definetly worth it due to the better results...and so far thats what we're seeing.

these guys are like broken records. YEEESH!

what animations in killzone 2? kz2 looks good but their hair is crap. mass effect has just as good if not better facial animations than kz2. gears 2 will look just as good and come out earlier. you get one great exclusive and now you own everything.

[QUOTE="Pariah_001"]

[QUOTE="Shafftehr"]That was a joke. I know EXACTLY what Carmack is. What utterly amazes me is that some of the mongoloid Cows in here are seriously questioning this guy's ability - let alone saying he should take lessons from a hack like Kojima.farrell2k

My problem is that people like to use Carmack like he's some kind of living embodiment of the deus ex machina. Yes, I know he has had a lot of field work. Yes, I'm aware of the fact that he has trouble developing for the PS3. Now what exactly does that prove in regards to developing on the PS3? That it's too difficult to program for or that it's simply too radical for Carmack's set ways to tolerate?

if Carmack ends up botching the development of a game on the PS3 all the while "hacks" like Kojima, Naughty Dawg, Guerilla, and Insomniac are able to make fully functional games, what exactly do you think that says about Carmack's programming versatility?

You seem to be assumming that the man cannot program for the PS3. It seems to me that he is simply saying that he doesn't like to because it is inefficient and overly complicated. There is a big difference.

id's engines has always been alot better than the UE's so no surprise there but if the Rage vid wasn't gameplay then we all still got to wait and see what will be the final product. But if it opengl I'm happy about that cause it always produes lifelike enviroments while dxd just looks to video gamish if you know what I mean.

GreyFoXX4

Yes, all the videos are ingame. At one point during the demonstration he fired up the editor and started showing the tools, while navigating through the level. You can find the videos on Gamespot too I think.

About the API:

It's still OpenGL, although we obviously use a D3D-ish API [on the Xbox 360], and CG on the PS3. It's interesting how little of the technology cares what API you're using and what generation of the technology you're on. You've got a small handful of files that care about what API they're on, and millions of lines of code that are agnostic to the platform that they're on.

Check out how the next OpenGL looks like:

[QUOTE="GreyFoXX4"]

id's engines has always been alot better than the UE's so no surprise there but if the Rage vid wasn't gameplay then we all still got to wait and see what will be the final product. But if it opengl I'm happy about that cause it always produes lifelike enviroments while dxd just looks to video gamish if you know what I mean.

Baranga

Yes, all the videos are ingame. At one point during the demonstration he fired up the editor and started showing the tools, while navigating through the level. You can find the videos on Gamespot too I think.

About the API:

It's still OpenGL, although we obviously use a D3D-ish API [on the Xbox 360], and CG on the PS3. It's interesting how little of the technology cares what API you're using and what generation of the technology you're on. You've got a small handful of files that care about what API they're on, and millions of lines of code that are agnostic to the platform that they're on.

Check out how the next OpenGL looks like:

So I take it that was gameplay of that we saw of Rage? Still haven't heard a answer on this out right.

So I take it that was gameplay of that we saw of Rage? Still haven't heard a answer on this out right.

GreyFoXX4

I'm just going to throw this out here. I know Sony fans will flip, but oh well.

Carmack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kojima.

Carmack is responsible for basically launching a whole genre that changed the way we play games. If it were not for Carmack, there would be no Half Life, Halo, Quake, Unreal, Killzone, Resistance, F.E.A.R., Crysis, or any other FPS game.

Carmack is a legend in the world of developing. Sorry he made a negative comment about the PS3, but that dosen't change anything.

BTW, those pics Baranga posted are absolutely stunning. Now that's good graphics right there.

I'm just going to throw this out here. I know Sony fans will flip, but oh well.

Carmack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kojima.

Carmack is responsible for basically launching a whole genre that changed the way we play games. If it were not for Carmack, there would be no Half Life, Halo, Quake, Unreal, Killzone, Resistance, F.E.A.R., Crysis, or any other FPS game.

Carmack is a legend in the world of developing. Sorry he made a negative comment about the PS3, but that dosen't change anything.

ThugKing6669

Cause he is saying they don't want to take the Easy route in developing a game for PS3.

[QUOTE="ThugKing6669"]

I'm just going to throw this out here. I know Sony fans will flip, but oh well.

Carmack >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kojima.

Carmack is responsible for basically launching a whole genre that changed the way we play games. If it were not for Carmack, there would be no Half Life, Halo, Quake, Unreal, Killzone, Resistance, F.E.A.R., Crysis, or any other FPS game.

Carmack is a legend in the world of developing. Sorry he made a negative comment about the PS3, but that dosen't change anything.

Nintendo_Ownes7

Cause he is saying they don't want to take the Easy route in developing a game for PS3.

I know this, but sony fans will see it as a negative comment.

bout' time ANOTHER dev called sony's platform for what it is :P good call mr. Carmackjazreal

[QUOTE="GreyFoXX4"]

So I take it that was gameplay of that we saw of Rage? Still haven't heard a answer on this out right.

Nintendo_Ownes7

It was a level of RAGE, full with AI entities (you can see the crowd and the cars are racing). The camera was set to loop through the circuit. I THINK Carmack took control of a car for a few seconds while fiddling with the editor.

In the picture I posted, I'm almost sure the dude in the middle is from RAGE. The monster without textures is from Doom 3, and the guy in lower left looks a bit like Carmack (the characters in Doom 3, including *The Marine*, were modeled after id's employees).