Console gamers gladly buy DLC, PC Gamers think they're entitled to it for free

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

[QUOTE="TreeMoBMoney"]

While console gamers are enjoying epic games and dont have to play resort to playing CS. :lol:

TreeMoBMoney

Not even close.

Actually, im away on business for about a year, my gaming pc is at my house, that game looks fabulous, and i cant wait to get it, but really, i hate it because ive always loved pc and console gaming (which is what im limited to now, which is more than ok) and pc gamers bragging about free dlc and having to pay for dlc on consoles, well, they just dont fully grasp the reasoning behind it, and its pretty sad that pc doesnt charge, because it would mean great things for the industry, and they could do more, faster, less bugs etc. because they have more money to work with, although the idea has its flaws, so does NOT paying for them.

I see it as the lesser of 2 evils, and in general, a better idea.

TreeMoBMoney

You could argue it really depends on the content itself.

Free content like maps or multiplayer additions sell more copies of games for developers. Look at games like Tripwire Interactive's Killing Floor. It has been a great success for them, and this weekend had another update, adding more enemies, maps and weapons. The game is evolving, the developers are still making sales from a game that was on the market a while ago.

The same can be said for games like Epics UT3. The game on release was commercially nowhere near the success of the previous installments, however after the release of the 'UT3 black' DLC and competitive pricing the games sales catapulted.

It depends on the game, it depends on the sales model used.

Personally I think things like map shouldn't have price tags attached. There is a creative process yes, but the production costs are minimal, and its something that should be there to strengthen the community than empty loyal customers pockets for extra profit margins.

Treat the customer well, and they will keep coming back and pay attention to your products.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]Epic games?

Not even close.

Trmpt

That was cool but any two countries that put that many planes up in one specific area are IDIOTS.

You console-only gamers have absolutely the wrong idea. PC gamers aren't unwilling to pay for DLC because we're cheap-skates. PC gamers are unwilling to pay for DLC, because the best DLC for PC games come from PC users themselves, and are thus, free.

Unlike with a console, with a PC, you can go into the code of the game and create new game content for yourself - the population of PC gamers is either so large, or so hardcore that we actually DO create content for our games, even if the tools are not provided for in-game.

The first game to pioneer UGC is actually the legendary Starcraft and Broodwar. Those games have such powerful and easy-use tools that right away, users began customizing multiplayer maps to suit their tastes, much like you can post custom jobs for Forza3 cars online. Don't like that ramp? No problem. Just remove it, save under a different name, then play. Maps too rush heavy? No problem. Create long corridors with hefty travel times. Heck, create all-island maps. It wasn't as easy as customizing your setting on, say, a message-board forum, but it was close.

What really started the ball rolling was when communities of Starcraft players playing on LAN, began holding inter-group tournaments and sharing strategies and maps (this was in Asia, so you NA'ers may not have known). Communities began paying for server bandwidth to hold meetings, create user-maps, beta-test user maps, and exchange content with other like-minded communities. That's when the avalanche of content began. There is SO much content for SC today that you cannot reasonably expect to see it all. It's impossible.

Moreover, this burst of community productivity actually led to the development of a new genre of game, outside the realm of companies and paid developers: Tower Defense. The first iterations of this game genre were little more than a modified campaign survival scenario. As the maps evolved, units were trimmed away, enemy bases got replaced with outright timed unit spawns, and base defenses were tweaked to provide more variety. By the time Warcraft 3 rolled around, the stage was set for users to develop Tower Defense games as we know them today. The very first modern Tower Defense game I saw was an early WC3 mod released soon after that game was launched.

WC3 itself lent itself to the development of a new type of game genre: DOTA. This game genre is still in its nascent stages. There is only one other game I know of that patterns itself this way, and it's actually a developer-based game. That game is, of course, Demigod from Stardock. The game genre is greatly suited to transference and development on a console, so you console users may eventually get a taste of it when mainstream developers make a version of it for you.

Counterstrike, Rise and Fall, Mount and Blade - there are many examples of PC games developed by independent operators working either from middleware or finished game products with tools that make their products available for free on the net.

CivIV has a very powerful and very active online community in Civilization Fanatics and Apolyton, in which I've participated some few times. When I say, "powerful," I don't mean "we're gonna boycott your product" powerful. I mean "we create so much content and such a high quality that Civ IV itself was made and packaged with content from online users," powerful. The site hosts many game theory and design discussions, and there is much advice to be had on the forum at all skill levels. Player hosted and emcee'd content is always available, even today. You play at Noble and want to get better? Well, why don't you join a University game, where everyone plays the same map, and people receive objective critique and comparisons with similarly-leveled players for the purpose of elucidation. Don't worry about your ego - it won't matter. Hosts there are so skilled that they don't feel any need whatsoever to insult your skill at the game to boost their egos. They know they're good - they don't need to belittle you to get recognition. And it's always about the fun. At least until you get to Immortal. ;)

Don't like CivIV anymore? Well, would you like new units? New Civs, maybe? Entire new campaigns? New leaders with animations and all-new unit skins across the board? How about a fantasy turn-based game based on the Civ IV engine? Sound good? Well, they're all there, and they're ALL FREE.

I feel strongly about this myself because I am a content provider. I game mainly on a PC, and I've made and uploaded maps for SC. I crafted and beta-tested many custom maps for Counterstrike up until Source. With the new, powerful SC Galaxy Editor coming, I feel many ideas coming to the fore again, and I want to go out and make more content. For free.

Companies can't milk us PC gamers for content because we make our own. If you made your own content with as much volume and quality, you wouldn't need these crappy DLC products, either.

Great posts, keep them coming.

More like console gamers recklessly buy DLC whilst PC gamers just laugh at consolites being conned and exploited out of all their money. PC gaming has had free DLC content since the dawn of time, why should that change because of people that don't have any sense.

You know why console gamers "gladly" buy DLC? Because they are ignorant. PC gamers know better. And anyone who thinks paying for DLC is a good idea is ignorant.

[QUOTE="skrat_01"]

[QUOTE="TreeMoBMoney"]

While console gamers are enjoying epic games and dont have to play resort to playing CS. :lol:

TreeMoBMoney

Not even close.

[QUOTE="TreeMoBMoney"]

While console gamers are enjoying epic games and dont have to play resort to playing CS. :lol:

skrat_01

Not even close.

Companies can't milk us PC gamers for content because we make our own. If you made your own content with as much volume and quality, you wouldn't need these crappy DLC products, either.roxlimn

Console gamers buy DLC whether good or bad.. the GTA DLC and the DA DLC are examples of good dlc that should be bought by both console and PC gamers. Now map packs, avatar clothes, items and themes are examples of crap DLC that console gamers also buy that PC gamers won't.

Don't turn the DLC debate into an argument that somehow all PC owners have an arrogant sense of entitlement, and console gamers don't. DLC has been free for many, many years on PC, so tell me you wouldn't be pissed if suddenly you started having to pay $10 for what you previously got for free. And I think a lot of console gamers have a problem with buying DLC as well.

heh, most PC gamers think they're enititled to THE GAME for free!

and as for the $100.00+ SNES carts, I can remember paying that for some of them too.

The PC is the most popular and most widely developed for platform on the planet. The reason why PC gamers think they are "entitled" to free DLC is because they are. The movement of charging for DLC came in during this generation, when console publishers found out that console gamers will spend money on almost anything, regardless of whether or not it is ethical to charge for it.

Anyone who buys the original game should be entitled to any DLC for free. Anyone who buys the game used, rents it or borrows it should have to buy the DLC. Not only will they undermine the used game/renting industry, but more people will be willing to shell out money for games if they know that all the extra content that gets taken out of final release is guaranteed to them for free... just for buying a new copy.

Console gamers gladly grab their ankles for the devs.

It's a sad world where people actually enjoy getting a game stripped of features just so they can be charged to have those features added back later.

i would say its actually accurate.

Developers are companies which look to make a profit, most of the time these DLC's are extra content for the game that were what you could say in a sense an after-thought.Console gamers are prime targets as the distribution methods and the fact DLC has only become this gen mainly due to the likes of XBL and PSN making it much easier to get their hands on it.

Also the fact console games dont contain modability although UT3 is an example of being able to mod on consoles.But the companies charge money for what may be deemed as mods as console gamers cannot mod at all, thus making it easier to say oh you want this well heres the price tag in a sense its a ransom depending on what content you wish for even though in most cases its limited.

Also the profit margins for DLC are high, and the fact that console gamers lap it up thus more profit.More profit means a company is going to go to them.I mean look at COD4 and WaW map packs they have made millions off them on consoles but are free on PC so theres no profitability whatsoever..its a good reason as to why the PC is becoming left behind.

In many senses its PC gamers mainly the uber hermits who in a sense need to evolve and stop living in a timewarp of a sense.Companies found a new profit stream in consoles but due to the PC market being much more stubborn its a diffrent ball game and the more PC gamers act like it i think actually the more gimped ports we will see over the coming year.

So in the sense of wanting a good game on your PC, gamers will need to adapt to change.Didnt see anyone complaining about the FO3 DLC, map packs will most likely follow in the footsteps of charging and i actually think GFWL might get a revamp and come back with a vengance at some point and PC gamers will have to accept the change really.

I like Valve's way of looking at DLC. It's free because:
-It keeps people playing your game
-It attracts new people to the game : more sales

R4gn4r0k

Yea that's what I liked about EA and DICE they made the DLC free for BF:BC

Because if its not free, they can just torrent it.

why the hell wouldnt people still being playing cs i still play cs regularly...the simplicity of gathering up 4 others buddies and hoppin onto mirc to find a scrim is just too nice when there is still a very large competetive community, and im talking about 1.6...a game thats over 10 years old and still has a wider range of skill, strategy, teamwork and competetiveness than almost all shooters up to datekidcool189

That is a lie! It's not simple. It's very complicated. That's why we need matchmaking instead of dedicated servers. Stop lying!

[QUOTE="hoplayletsplay"]I, as a console gamer, DO NOT like the idea of download contents at all! It is obviously ruining the industry. Games should get cheaper not more expensive.falconclan

I can't say I blame them for trying to profit, but I think they should be more honest in pricing. Seriously, I want value.

...

Also the profit margins for DLC are high, and the fact that console gamers lap it up thus more profit.More profit means a company is going to go to them.I mean look at COD4 and WaW map packs they have made millions off them on consoles but are free on PC so theres no profitability whatsoever..its a good reason as to why the PC is becoming left behind.

In many senses its PC gamers mainly the uber hermits who in a sense need to evolve and stop living in a timewarp of a sense.Companies found a new profit stream in consoles but due to the PC market being much more stubborn its a diffrent ball game and the more PC gamers act like it i think actually the more gimped ports we will see over the coming year.

So in the sense of wanting a good game on your PC, gamers will need to adapt to change.Didnt see anyone complaining about the FO3 DLC, map packs will most likely follow in the footsteps of charging and i actually think GFWL might get a revamp and come back with a vengance at some point and PC gamers will have to accept the change really.

razgriz_101

On the contrary, the main reason because per pay DLC exist on consoles is because they haven't dedicated servers and mod tools, which means that after 6 months most of the games are dead. Instead, in PC some of the best moments in a game lifespan starts few months after the launchship, just when custom maps and free stuff by modders start to flooding the servers and the patches from the developers remove some of the bugs and unbalances.

Of course, to PC players there's no sense to pay for a few extra multiplayer maps or new levels to the single player campaign when some of the best custom maps from modders reach or even surpass the original content. This is the way in that some companies as Epic games works and isn't the only one.

Some console players forget that Epic try to ship free maps and packs of free contents in UT III to Xbox 360 and Gears Of War in the same way in that they ship the Titan Map Pack to PC and PS3 without charge. They try it, and also try to let modding in Xbox 360, but Microsoft said "NO".The main reason to Epic to work in this way is because the developer support and mod support appeals more customers to purchase the game, which is better both to players and the developer. When they want to charge for a new content then sell a decent expansion -Return To Na Pali to Unreal- instead to charge for a bunch of maps.

Some of the best games in the last 20 years, as Counter Strike, Enemy Territory, Defense Of The Ancients, Red Orchestra, Alien Swarm, Killing Floor... started as free custom content widely available in dedicated servers. Most of the console players have no idea about it and for this reason they look weird that per pay DLCs, the absence of custom mods and tools and the disable of dedicated servers have very bad press in the PC communities.

What is even more ironic is that instead of try to push the console status forward to reach the PC standards most Xbox 360 users wants that the situation to other platforms fall to the 360 low ends, with p2p matchmaking, no mods, no dedicated servers, no clans and pay per any pity new feature. Wake up guys, you're shooting your own toe!

[QUOTE="kidcool189"]why the hell wouldnt people still being playing cs i still play cs regularly...the simplicity of gathering up 4 others buddies and hoppin onto mirc to find a scrim is just too nice when there is still a very large competetive community, and im talking about 1.6...a game thats over 10 years old and still has a wider range of skill, strategy, teamwork and competetiveness than almost all shooters up to dateArsuz

That is a lie! It's not simple. It's very complicated. That's why we need matchmaking instead of dedicated servers. Stop lying!

[QUOTE="falconclan"]

[QUOTE="hoplayletsplay"]I, as a console gamer, DO NOT like the idea of download contents at all! It is obviously ruining the industry. Games should get cheaper not more expensive.da_illest101

I can't say I blame them for trying to profit, but I think they should be more honest in pricing. Seriously, I want value.

Yeah, that's a total lie... I mean comon, i've never heard of 150$ game and I got starfox from release.

DLC being free used to be the norm, that is until an audience gullible enough to pay for it came along and ruined it for the rest of us.

The OP is essentially boasting he is more exploitable and hence makes a more desirable consumer.

Why spend 1000 hours making content that nobody pays for?

When you can spend 1000 hours making content that people buys for millions of dollars with close to zero distributing cost?

Milkage to the extreme..

This is why so few game companies take PC as a serious platform anymore.

Just in case you're wonderin'

EvanTheGamer

I'd say it's because companies can sell just about any kind of crap to console gamers (obviously, you included), but to PC gamers not likely.

DLC being free used to be the norm, that is until an audience gullible enough to pay for it came along and ruined it for the rest of us.

The OP is essentially boasting he is more exploitable and hence makes a more desirable consumer.

AnnoyedDragon

I stopped playing burnout paradise after the big surf island 'patch' came out. I call it a patch because they forced to to install it if your ps3 was connected to the internet, and it added a bunch of crap that you had to pay to unlock, seriously f'ed me me off I mean forcing you to download stuff that you have to pay to use, I would obviously have taken it better if it was optional, but this was too much. I gave the game to one of my friends in exchange for GRID.

So the console gamers are dumb sheep, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to support the industry at every step. As we can see the PC Gamers do think they're even entitled to the whole game for free, we've seen the consequences of this selfish thinking as less and less major dev's and games come out for the PC platform.

The love from dedicated hardcore gamers really shows as the devs continue to supoort consoles, which continue get the most desirable games and creates the best competition, hence the term 'System Wars' between rival consoles.

So Nice : )

PC gamers can create their own content. Console gamers can't.

SpinoRaptor24

[QUOTE="SpinoRaptor24"]

PC gamers can create their own content. Console gamers can't.

Solid_Tango

Whoa, one game vs, well, way too much.

Little big planet says hi ;)Solid_Tango

EvantheGamer:

Actually, the most innovative games continue to come from PC gamers who MAKE their own games, sometimes from premade games and tools, from middleware, even from flash. Console gamers never see this content, so they never know. Mount and Blade usedto be free, made available by a pair of developers for testing because they had no money. What kind of support did they get? Well, PC Gamers paid to get their incomplete gameso that the devs could get capital to finish it. And they did. It's on sale now and it's pretty darned good.

When Console Gamers "beta test" a game, they're really patronizing a demo of it. In PC-land, it's for realz. You get raw game with all the balance and engine problems. Sometimes it crashes the system. We note the bugs and balance problems in a document and send it back to the devs. That's real beta-testing.

Don't talk to me about not patronizing the devs and not supporting gaming. We create content for free that adds value to the product made by developers. THEY are getting add-on content on THEIR game with no further costs to themselves. We are GIVING them content to boost their sales. Console guys had Little Big Planet. What did they do with it? Nothing. They had their chance to create awesome, mind-blowing content and they blew it. There is no support going on there.

[QUOTE="Solid_Tango"]Little big planet says hi ;)foxhound_fox

yes but the gameplay mechanics can be altered through various uses of items within that level creator which can rapidly change the gameplay aspect of the gameplay.So your arguement is pretty thin on the ground in that sense as TS was really no more than drag and drop stuff like preset corridors etc.Where as LBP has a much more what you could say free form elements to its design aspect and as creativity is one of the major aspects people are finding new ways to use the tools provided.

Its much more advanced and we have seen gameplay altering aspects within the editor itself.

[QUOTE="falconclan"]I recall paying $150 for Star Fox 64, and I live in the US.Trmpt

yes but the gameplay mechanics can be altered through various uses of items within that level creator which can rapidly change the gameplay aspect of the gameplay.So your arguement is pretty thin on the ground in that sense as TS was really no more than drag and drop stuff like preset corridors etc.Where as LBP has a much more what you could say free form elements to its design aspect and as creativity is one of the major aspects people are finding new ways to use the tools provided.

Its much more advanced and we have seen gameplay altering aspects within the editor itself.

razgriz_101

So the console gamers are dumb sheep, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to support the industry at every step. As we can see the PC Gamers do think they're even entitled to the whole game for free, we've seen the consequences of this selfish thinking as less and less major dev's and games come out for the PC platform.

The love from dedicated hardcore gamers really shows as the devs continue to supoort consoles, which continue get the most desirable games and creates the best competition, hence the term 'System Wars' between rival consoles.

So Nice : )

EvanTheGamer

Yeah, that's were the Wii got all there new clients from... oh wait...

DLC that adds an considerable amount of content or furthers a story line is fine and might be worth paying for it you so choose.

However, if you shell out $10 bucks for a 3 map pack or $5 for Versus mode in RE5, then you are an idiot. That's the only way to put it. Making maps and creating simple gameplay modes do not warrant the spending of money. Its not like it took a crack team up developers to cough up a couple of maps. or new skins or game mode.

The nice thing about PC modding is that as long as mod tools are released people can make new maps and new modes of gameplay and distribute them through the community, free of charge. Yes, most PC gamers do not have the resources or time to create something on par with The Ballad of Gay Tony or the like. As I said, stuff like that is probably worth it.

The only reason console gamers pay for this is because they have no option when it comes to extending the replay value of their games...so the bend over for the devs. Sure, a $10 here or a $5 there isn't much in the long run, but it's a disgusting trend that popping up way too much in gaming nowadays.

I don't agree or know how you reached that conclusion TC.

First of all, LOL at you think console gamers "gladly" buy DLC.

First, people don't want to pay DLC and beg for free content. Sure, they understand devs need to make money. Sometimes it gets ridiculous when you charge $10 for 4 maps. Sometimes it gets ridiculous when the online community gets destroyed because you dont have the DLC your friends have. Sometimes it gets ridiculous when content is purposefully withheld so devs can charge for it later.

And your telling me people gladly want to pay for this?

PC gamers don't feel entitled from what I see. They laugh at console gamers and use it to prove the benefits of PC gaming.

However, when it comes right down to it, I disagree that console gamers buy it happily. That's far from the truth

Why should i have to pay more for something i should have got for free?

3/4 of the world would gladly take a piece of bread because they barely have 3 meals per day, Americans think that taking 5000 calories per day is a given. C wut i did der?

1. Generalization is fun, isn't it? Most people I know, who by the way are console gamers, hate DLC.

2. Just because there's someone out there having a harder time than you doesn't mean you're wrong.

Console gamers don't gladly buy DLC (Horse Armor anyone?), they just don't have a choice because they're on a closed platform. The reason DLC doesn't do as well on PC is because PC gamers have other, and often times better, options. It's like GFWL, there's a reason that MS dropped the fee for PC users yet 360 owners are still forced to fork over the $50 per year.

Also, don't compare anything on consoles to modding, not even LBP. Playing around with a limited amount of assets predesignated by the devs to be used in specific ways is in no way comparable to creating your own models, textures, sounds, etc from scratch and applying them in ways the designer never even conceived, much less intended.

This is why so few game companies take PC as a serious platform anymore.

Just in case you're wonderin'

EvanTheGamer

Let me get this straight.

YOU pay for stuff that WE get for free...

And *WE* are the ones with the problem? :|

[QUOTE="Trmpt"][QUOTE="falconclan"]I recall paying $150 for Star Fox 64, and I live in the US.falconclan