@blessedbyhorus: Microsoft controls gaming on Windows? Are you going to give an example of how that is remotely true?
Microsoft controls PC gaming via Direct3D and related patents e.g. outside of Windows, Android device manufactures pays Microsoft patents. http://www.howtogeek.com/183766/why-microsoft-makes-5-to-15-from-every-android-device-sold/
Yep, no matter what, MS owns the majority market of the OS platform.
Also, this is something for @NoodleFighter, Steam OS and Linux gaming is a failure!
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, which Valve announced was “Coming to SteamOS” with a huge banner on the Steam store, was perhaps the biggest tease of all. That banner was taken down just a few hours later, and Valve never said anything further on the matter. CD PROJEKT RED, The Witcher3’s developer, has refused to comment on Linux and SteamOS ports. Support would’ve seemed natural considering The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings is available for SteamOS and Linux, but it doesn’t look like it’s happening.
Batman: Arkham Knight was another huge AAA game promised for SteamOS and Linux. But the SteamOS, Linux, and Mac ports were officially cancelled after a botched Windows release that saw Warner Brothers hand out a lot of refunds to upset PC gamers. “We are very sorry,” a Warner Brothers representative posted on the Steam forums. “If you have pre-ordered Batman: Arkham Knight for Mac or Linux, please apply for a refund via Steam.” Now that’s how to do a cancellation right.
@ronvalencia: uhh Android doesn't run on DirectX. Like at all. Ignoring that, I don't think you know what the word "control" even means.
So what? Android device manufacturers pays Microsoft patents.
Microsoft controls PC gaming via "soft power" not "hard power".
From Wiki...
Soft power is the ability to shape the preferences of others through appeal and attraction. A defining feature of soft power is that it is noncoercive; the currency of soft power is culture, political values, and foreign policies. Recently, the term has also been used in changing and influencing social and public opinion through relatively less transparent channels and lobbying through powerful political and non-political organizations
@ronvalencia: So you are moving away from "control" to "Microsoft softly influenced people to vote for Hillary Clinton." And Google paying Microsoft royalties has anything to do with PC gaming.
@blessedbyhorus: but you are insane one claiming it is possible. too much tin foil hat. You could explain how Microsoft could lock down all of Windows 10 under their control without being pursued by massive criminal charges and hundreds of anti-trust lawsuits, but I doubt you would because you would be dead wrong on any lie on tell.
Then why is it when I try to speak 60fps and specs to console gamers most are completely clueless. Back in high school I use to try to argue to people that PC gaming was superior but all they would say is that it was for nerds. Why is it that most console gamers I met had no clue on how to even build a rig. I don't know about your world, but from my experience most console gamers see gaming as just a form of entertainment. The PC gamers I met in college were more enthusiast with gaming than their console counterparts. Trust me the demographics are different.
@blessedbyhorus: Microsoft controls gaming on Windows? Are you going to give an example of how that is remotely true?
Microsoft controls PC gaming via OS/DirectX and related patents e.g. outside of Windows, Android device manufactures pays Microsoft patents. http://www.howtogeek.com/183766/why-microsoft-makes-5-to-15-from-every-android-device-sold/
But yeah thats really it tho. They do not get money from actual PC games that are sold unless it is from their first party.
@blessedbyhorus: sorry if you feel that way. Didn't mean to pressure to into giving a legitimate answer.
Its just that I don't know why you are keep continuing this when I already ADMITTED that it would be BAD if MS tried to take over PC gaming. What the point when we both AGREE!
@blessedbyhorus: Microsoft doesn't control how you use Windows. There aren't any restrictions on how you use your PC. Microsoft made Windows a very open platform where you can do whatever you want.
@blessedbyhorus: it's not "bad" for MS. It's illegal and impossible as a result of such. No one lives in your science fiction. Not that it wouldn't make a great book.
@blessedbyhorus: Microsoft doesn't control how you use Windows. There aren't any restrictions on how you use your PC. Microsoft made Windows a very open platform where you can do whatever you want.
*sigh*
For the last time the point we were making is that they OWN the platform. Yes, Windows is an open platform but it is MS who owns the OS and gets money when people like PC gamers buy it. That doesn't mean MS controls/owns Steam, Google Chrome, Firefox, Origin, or any other application they do not own on the Windows platform.
@blessedbyhorus: it's not "bad" for MS. It's illegal and impossible as a result of such. No one lives in your science fiction. Not that it wouldn't make a great book.
I said it would be bad for us!
Yeah, I can see that you're trolling at this point.
@blessedbyhorus: You said it's bad but very possible. Even though several anti-trust laws that prevent Microsoft from doing any kind of hostile takeover. Sorry to hear you are crying "troll" instead of your usual scapegoats in addressing these laws.
@blessedbyhorus: You said it's bad but very possible. Even though several anti-trust laws that prevent Microsoft from doing any kind of hostile takeover. Sorry to hear you are crying "troll" instead of your usual scapegoats in addressing these laws.
@blessedbyhorus: "microsoft is in a very good position to take over control from the consumer" except they can't because the law exists. You don't have any comments on that, do you? I bet not.
@blessedbyhorus: "microsoft is in a very good position to take over control from the consumer" except they can't because the law exists. You don't have any comments on that, do you? I bet not.
Well actually they can, even if its illegal. It takes time for the act to be considered illegal. It takes time to gather enough evidence to demonstrate that the act is illegal to create a case. Then it takes court time before an actual judgement is passed on the illegal activity. Some companies have rode this line and still come out on top like Intel.
@blessedbyhorus: "microsoft is in a very good position to take over control from the consumer" except they can't because the law exists. You don't have any comments on that, do you? I bet not.
....No matter what, Sony is at a disadvantage compared to Microsoft!
60+ million consoles sold, if anything console gaming is way more popular then PC gaming.
Steam has over 125 million active users alone. These are active accounts, not consoles gathering dust.
Gamers are also converting to PC due to this disastrous console generation and it's .5 "upgrade"
Steam does not charge people to make an account. I literally could make 100 accounts on Steam for free.
"active" being the word you missed.
Yeah and I can easily counter that. I can make multiple accounts on my PS4 and say they are "ACTIVE." Matter fact that is the case for me as my brothers have accounts on my PS4 while never buying their own one. So @loe12k is right when he says Steam accounts are free.
Except that Steam specified "ACTIVE" means that specific active account played a game at least once in a specific tallied month.
@Pedro: "it would be very hard and take a very long time to gather evidence against Microsoft when they pull a stunt that affects 99% of all computer users and businesses in a very big and extreme way." I think it would make for a great book.
Then why is it when I try to speak 60fps and specs to console gamers most are completely clueless. Back in high school I use to try to argue to people that PC gaming was superior but all they would say is that it was for nerds. Why is it that most console gamers I met had no clue on how to even build a rig. I don't know about your world, but from my experience most console gamers see gaming as just a form of entertainment. The PC gamers I met in college were more enthusiast with gaming than their console counterparts. Trust me the demographics are different.
You don't need to know anything about technology to have gaming as a hobby. You're talking about two separate hobbies that overlap. One hobby is for technology, the other is gaming. There are more people that are more on the tech side, a good example of this is total biscuit. His gaming habbits and reviews seem to weigh heavily on weather or not he can make use of his technology. A good counter example of someone that is all for gaming as an art and completely indulges in the GAMING is jesse cox. I love watching many of jesse cox's videos because of how much he enjoys playing the game, I can't stand TB because he complains about the game being locked at 60fps, not being able to take advantage of his PC or w/e.
@FireEmblem_Man: Oh well at least Linux gaming is managing to get some growth despite some of cancellations of AAA titles like The Witcher 3 and Batman AK
@FireEmblem_Man: Oh well at least Linux gaming is managing to get some growth despite some of cancellations of AAA titles like The Witcher 3 and Batman AK
GNU Linux Desktop is terrible and until someone pushes a particular vision forward and conflict resolution doesn't end with multiple redundant libraries being built... It will never be a viable platform.
60+ million consoles sold, if anything console gaming is way more popular then PC gaming.
Steam has over 125 million active users alone. These are active accounts, not consoles gathering dust.
Gamers are also converting to PC due to this disastrous console generation and it's .5 "upgrade"
125 Million are stats from February 2015, given that it went from 75 million in 2014, a conservative guess (without any confirmation) would be more be more in the region of 150 Million active accounts.
As for the AAA console focussed games having less players (at launch). That's to be expected given that millions of PC gamers have thousands of PC games to play at any one time and it easily waters down the player base on any single game.
I never seen Steam hit more then 8 to 11 million concurrent. If there was 125 million gamers on Steam you would see a high number then 11 million during the peak hours..
Show us some console concurrent log in usage and we can make a proper comparison
Steam January 2014
Steam September 2014
Steam February 2015
Are they all lying?
Unfortunately I can't find anything for 2016
Your peak hours are not the same for everyone around a planet which has 24 time zones.
Right now there are 10,043,851 people logged into Steam of which 2,609,266 people are actually playing 6377 games (that's more than the current gens console will get combined over their lifetime) . The lowest this week was 6,236,926 and the highest was 12,472,004 individuals logged in. This could potentially mean that Steam has well over 200 million active accounts around the world.
@adelbart: I think that's what Sony realizes with Microsofts recent moves into PC Gaming. I think Microsofts strategy is pretty much move the industry to PC and push Sony out of business. But still reap benefits of Xbox consoles as the consoles become more closely aligned with Windows 10.
both ms and sony screwed up and thats since 7th gen. Consoles started suffering from all the issues PCs do with zero of the benefits. Im not throwing nintendo in it because they kept the idea of the console and play on a different level.
@adelbart: I think that's what Sony realizes with Microsofts recent moves into PC Gaming. I think Microsofts strategy is pretty much move the industry to PC and push Sony out of business. But still reap benefits of Xbox consoles as the consoles become more closely aligned with Windows 10.
It's actually a pretty damn smart move on their part. I know many people who are happy with this gaming shift into PC gaming from Microsoft.
both ms and sony screwed up and thats since 7th gen. Consoles started suffering from all the issues PCs do with zero of the benefits. Im not throwing nintendo in it because they kept the idea of the console and play on a different level.
Yep, I agree with you! Nintendo has arcade roots and prefer to be more of an arcade experience at home while the Playstation and Xbox consoles are more of a PC experience in the living room.
@DragonfireXZ95: Yep. Creating a console slightly better than the PS4 is not going to snag PC gamers. Meeting them at their platform with new and innovative ways to include them in the console play space will. Which is what MS did. Microsoft does not think that project Scorpio or the XBoxOne S will make PC gamers conve.rt to console. Why would they? But cross play will allow those who are on PC to enjoy XboxOne titles, without technically owning an XboxOne thanks to Windows 10. Sony is in the market of selling hardware, where as MS is too, but they are also looking at the bigger picture and longer payoff a ..............Windows 10 Ecosystem encompassing PC and Console Gaming. Sony is a hardware juggernaut. But MS knows a thing or two when it comes to the PC consumer market.
@DragonfireXZ95: Yep. Creating a console slightly better than the PS4 is not going to snag PC gamers. Meeting them at their platform with new and innovative ways to include them in the console play space will. Which is what MS did. Microsoft does not think that project Scorpio or the XBoxOne S will make PC gamers conve.rt to console. Why would they? But cross play will allow those who are on PC to enjoy XboxOne titles, without technically owning an XboxOne thanks to Windows 10. Sony is in the market of selling hardware, where as MS is too, but they are also looking at the bigger picture and longer payoff a ..............Windows 10 Ecosystem encompassing PC and Console Gaming. Sony is a hardware juggernaut. But MS knows a thing or two when it comes to the PC consumer market.
Yep, don't know what was Shrek's problem about that. MS is a dominant force, and has the de facto OS of choice. Linux and Steam OS is a slow choice for PC gamers to adapt to, also a big problem is that Linux gaming face is that AAA PC game developers is the un-unified system it has meaning a ton of lack of drivers for custom rigs even though AMD and NVIDIA has them, they don't compare to the Windows Drivers. Vulkan is promising, but MS has stepped up Direct X after AMD's Mantle announcement. No matter, Steam's majority of users have a Windows OS and only has a 1 percent of Linux users.
@FireEmblem_Man: You don't know my problem, but I know yours. You can't read and thus missed all of the people claiming that Microsoft can lock down Windows in a hostile takeover any time they want or that Microsoft already has full control over how you use Windows.
@FireEmblem_Man: You don't know my problem, but I know yours. You can't read and thus missed all of the people claiming that Microsoft can lock down Windows in a hostile takeover any time they want or that Microsoft already has full control over how you use Windows.
Do you use Windows to go on Steam? If so, then yes, you use Microsoft to help run your PC games!
@FireEmblem_Man: wow wtf are you really that incapable of reading. Can you please go to the deepest reaches of internet and find the English definition of "full control." I know this is a very difficult task, but I am trusting you with this oh so important mission.
@FireEmblem_Man: wow wtf are you really that incapable of reading. Can you please go to the deepest reaches of internet and find the English definition of "full control." I know this is a very difficult task, but I am trusting you with this oh so important mission.
If you got a problem with the post, then go tell that to the Great Prophet, Sean Malstrom, and I'm sure he will enlighten you on why Microsoft has full control of the PC gaming market
@FireEmblem_Man: I have a problem with you not explain a lick of how Microsoft controls how you use Windows. So are you going to find that definition yet? You can't blame anyone but yourself if you don't have the same basic vocabulary as the rest of the English-speaking world.
@FireEmblem_Man: I have a problem with you not explain a lick of how Microsoft controls how you use Windows. So are you going to find that definition yet? You can't blame anyone but yourself if you don't have the same basic vocabulary as the rest of the English-speaking world.
Go home and take a nap, you shouldn't let a SW post make you so angry
@FireEmblem_Man: I've never seen someone duck and dodge a simple question as much as you. You are just as bad as them. Claiming Microsoft controls what content you can use on Windows and how but can't produce a logical answer that remotely shows how Microsoft nazi dictates a platform everyone knows is completely open. Have fun with your tin foil hat.
@FireEmblem_Man: I've never seen someone duck and dodge a simple question as much as you. You are just as bad as them. Claiming Microsoft controls what content you can use on Windows and how but can't produce a logical answer that remotely shows how Microsoft nazi dictates a platform everyone knows is completely open. Have fun with your tin foil hat.
Don't need to, when everyone else, especially @ronvalencia show how much influence Microsoft has in the Desktop and Enterprise market. Microsoft still provide tools for game developers with Direct X, and majority of PC developers and the rest of the PC gaming industry uses it over Open GL. Game developers go where they can make money and MS has the biggest OS marketshare. MS Windows 10 requires a MS account in order to use the Windows Store, but if you don't want to use the Windows Store, you can rightly refuse it. Steam, the most popular PC gaming service has more users game on Windows than Valve's own SteamOS. So yes, MS owns the PC market and has more influence as how Intel has influence to have all OEM's to use their processors.
@FireEmblem_Man: omg "MS requires an MS account for the Windows 10 store but you can completely refuse to use it" is an example of consumer freedom, not Microsoft control. DirectX is completely free for everyone and there are no restrictions or requirements for who wants to use it. So no Microsoft control there. OpenGL works just fine on Windows because Microsoft does not control what API you develop for on Windows. The majority of PC developers freely choose to developer for Windows because that's where gamers freely choose to game, not because Microsoft had some mandate or dictation. Since you haven't lookes up the definition all of this time, "control" is the opposite of "free." Is it really that hard????????
@FireEmblem_Man: omg "MS requires an MS account for the Windows 10 store but you can completely refuse to use it" is an example of consumer freedom, not Microsoft control. DirectX is completely free for everyone and there are no restrictions or requirements for who wants to use it. So no Microsoft control there. OpenGL works just fine on Windows because Microsoft does not control what API you develop for on Windows. The majority of PC developers freely choose to developer for Windows because that's where gamers freely choose to game, not because Microsoft had some mandate or dictation. Since you haven't lookes up the definition all of this time, "control" is the opposite of "free." Is it really that hard????????
Direct3D is loaded with patent land mines e.g. outside of Windows, any company who used S3TC in their shipped device has to pay AMD. DirectX is not completely free for everyone.
AMD allows S3TC patents to be used for Microsoft's Direct3D defacto standard.
For desktop PC OS, Microsoft has beaten most 1980s/1990s competitors with Apple's MacOS X being the sole survivor from PC's systems war.
Sony avoids paying AMD patents by purchasing AMD GPUs for their PS4 console.
Qualcomm is paying license fees to AMD beyond the initial Xenos IP fees i.e. initial Xenos IP wouldn't cover DirectX11/X12 era unified shader GPUs.
While Vulkan APIs are open, Vulkan is a patent trap from AMD e.g. most texture compression is own by AMD. AMD dislikes OpenGL is replace it with Vulkan.
From VIA vs Apple case, AMD stop VIA from claiming AMD's S3TC as Apple buys AMD GPUs.
In terms of patent land mines, X86 PC is an alliance of Intel, AMD, Nvidia and Microsoft which makes up the Wintel PC platform. Intel plans to switch their NVIDIA patent IP payment to AMD. There's patent exchanges/agreements between Intel, AMD, NVIDIA and Microsoft.
Microsoft supported AMD's X86-64bit extensions in return AMD supports MS's Direct3D with patent protection.
DirectX12 is crafted mostly by AMD for Xbox One.
PS4's APIs crafted mostly by AMD e.g. PS4's PSSL is based from MS HLSL as Mantle's shader optimizations are based on MS HLSL. AMD's handily work is at play with PS4's software ecosystem.
References for Intel licensing AMD's graphics patents over NVIDIA's patents
Xbox One using AMD's CPU and GPU is also a patent protection by AMD i.e. NVIDIA has very weak CPU patents.
Incoming Shader Model 6.0's wavefront compute model is based from AMD's wave front compute model i.e. Xbox One runs on AMD GCN 1.1. GPU.
Wavefront = AMD's terminology for GpGPU.
Warp = NVIDIA's terminology for GpGPU.
Example for Microsoft control Windows is when Microsoft nuked Sony's CD audio copy protection driver with a Windows update. If a software endangers the Microsoft Windows ecosystem, it will be removed. This is an example of Microsoft's hard power.
Examples for Microsoft's hard power control over Windows
Valve's Steam service brings more software for Windows hence more end-user gravitates towards Windows, hence increasing Microsoft's soft-power.
@ronvalencia: yes it is free for everyone. What you are taking about are patents which are in place to protect intellectual properties. Going on an unrelated tangent when no one is talking about lawsuits and legal battles.
@ronvalencia: yes it is free for everyone. What you are taking about are patents which are in place to protect intellectual properties. Going on an unrelated tangent when no one is talking about lawsuits and legal battles.
It's not free for everyone as somebody pays for it.
The revenue model for desktop Windows is different from game console model i.e.
As more software is available on Windows leads more end-users gravitate towards Windows leads to more OEMs bundles Windows OS with PCs. This is how Wintel wins PC system wars. This is how Microsoft built it's business empire.
With Windows 10, further revenue model was created i.e. Bing's advertisements and market research data which mirror's Google's advertisements and market research data business model.
You can't directly compare Nintendo NES style business model to a desktop PC business model.
Windows business model was design to dominate the world's PCs while Nintendo NES style business model design for a small fish pond.
@ronvalencia: it's free for everyone involved in PC gaming. Get off that tangent about nonsense Microsoft vs Google legal fights. It doesn't look good on you. Microsoft pursued legal action against Google, claiming all Android technology was theirs and wrongfully stolen, all after their Windows Phone couldn't compete with existing platforms.
@ronvalencia: it's free for everyone involved in PC gaming. Get off that tangent about nonsense Microsoft vs Google legal fights. It doesn't look good on you. Microsoft pursued legal action against Google, claiming all Android technology was theirs and wrongfully stolen, all after their Windows Phone couldn't compete with existing platforms.
You are applying Nintendo NES style business model on desktop PC platform business model which is flawed.
Direct3D killed a lot of APIs (e.g. Glide, S3Metal, Mantle) and effectively pushed OpenGL into a minor player in PC's API system war. On Steam, Windows 10 is the dominant OS for PCs.
Your "wrongfully stolen" assertion has to be proven in the court of law and Microsoft is extracting patent fees from Android device makers.
Your statement "It doesn't look good on you" wouldn't work on me since it's not my problem.
@ronvalencia: wtf I never even mentioned anything Nintendo-related. I commented on your nonsense IP damages lawsuit having anything to do with DirectX not being free. Does anyone here not have a reading disability???
Anyone who thinks consoles are dying are just vocal PC gamers who think their experiences equals everyone else or just plain delusional people who don't know what they're talking about. Neither of which who lives in the real world but instead get their thinking points from forums. MS is just entering the PC space of gaming just to expand but more importantly to CONTAIN the growing Valve dominance in PC gaming. As for Sony they are just copying MS. Nothing less nothing more.
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