Consoles aren't kill PC gaming

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] just out of interest, how much did those dual 8800s cost you in 2007? my memory is rusty but back then those would have been high end graphics cards. most people wouldnt have had 1 in their system yet alone 2.markinthedark

My first 8800GT cost me $260 and the 2nd costed me $125 in 2008, I got the 2nd card for more performance and for Physx use too and also since I gotten a high resolution monitor. But yet I havent had the need to upgrade my graphics since then.... My computer runs circles around what consoles can do in quality. Here's the thing I didnt have to get another card since even one still runs most new games on high settings fine, its my choice if I want something better, consoles dont get a choice.

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for GPUs alone.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] just out of interest, how much did those dual 8800s cost you in 2007? my memory is rusty but back then those would have been high end graphics cards. most people wouldnt have had 1 in their system yet alone 2.markinthedark

My first 8800GT cost me $260 and the 2nd costed me $125 in 2008, I got the 2nd card for more performance and for Physx use too and also since I gotten a high resolution monitor. But yet I havent had the need to upgrade my graphics since then.... My computer runs circles around what consoles can do in quality. Here's the thing I didnt have to get another card since even one still runs most new games on high settings fine, its my choice if I want something better, consoles dont get a choice.

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for just GPUs.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

My first 8800GT cost me $260 and the 2nd costed me $125 in 2008, I got the 2nd card for more performance and for Physx use too and also since I gotten a high resolution monitor. But yet I havent had the need to upgrade my graphics since then.... My computer runs circles around what consoles can do in quality. Here's the thing I didnt have to get another card since even one still runs most new games on high settings fine, its my choice if I want something better, consoles dont get a choice.

MrSelf-Destruct

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for GPUs alone.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

I had two original 360s... both red ringed... but after the free repairs... both are going strong until this day. So my original 360 purchases are still functioning with no problems.

minus the 2 week repair period.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] just out of interest, how much did those dual 8800s cost you in 2007? my memory is rusty but back then those would have been high end graphics cards. most people wouldnt have had 1 in their system yet alone 2.markinthedark

My first 8800GT cost me $260 and the 2nd costed me $125 in 2008, I got the 2nd card for more performance and for Physx use too and also since I gotten a high resolution monitor. But yet I havent had the need to upgrade my graphics since then.... My computer runs circles around what consoles can do in quality. Here's the thing I didnt have to get another card since even one still runs most new games on high settings fine, its my choice if I want something better, consoles dont get a choice.

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for just GPUs.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

But yet each 8800GTis nearly4x faster with 2x the video memory then ethier the PS3 or 360's gpu.... Plus I use my gpu's for more then just gpu's....

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

My first 8800GT cost me $260 and the 2nd costed me $125 in 2008, I got the 2nd card for more performance and for Physx use too and also since I gotten a high resolution monitor. But yet I havent had the need to upgrade my graphics since then.... My computer runs circles around what consoles can do in quality. Here's the thing I didnt have to get another card since even one still runs most new games on high settings fine, its my choice if I want something better, consoles dont get a choice.

Iantheone

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for just GPUs.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

MY first year of live i paid $50 (because i didnt know better) since then i have yet to pay more than $35 a year.

And most games are cheaper due to game credits and the fact that i can resell the ones i dont like for near purchase price after only a month or 2 on ebay. Hell i had bad company 2 for 6 months... and sold it for $30 6 months later. And that was through amazon, could probably have gotten more through ebay.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for GPUs alone.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

markinthedark

I had two original 360s... both red ringed... but after the free repairs... both are going strong until this day. So my original 360 purchases are still functioning with no problems.

minus the 2 week repair period.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] I highly doubt many 360s from have survived that long. Plenty of people have bought 3 or more already due to hardware failures and model upgrades. A good PC, on the other had, will last for years only and only need an upgrade when the games are actually advancing in quality and demanding better gear. MrSelf-Destruct

I had two original 360s... both red ringed... but after the free repairs... both are going strong until this day. So my original 360 purchases are still functioning with no problems.

minus the 2 week repair period.

I spent $600 for my GPU at the tail end of 2006, and it barely ourperforms my 360 that i bought a year ealier for $400. In fact i felt the need to replace my $600 4 year old gpu last year.... bought a $150 GPU.

Thats $750 for GPUs alone over a course of 5 years... when i add in the entire system price, including the cost of XP, and windows 7 (in order to take advantage of DX 10) its been pretty expensive to PC game this gen.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I had two original 360s... both red ringed... but after the free repairs... both are going strong until this day. So my original 360 purchases are still functioning with no problems.

minus the 2 week repair period.

markinthedark

I spent $600 for my GPU at the tail end of 2006, and it barely ourperforms my 360 that i bought a year ealier for $400. In fact i felt the need to replace my $600 4 year old gpu last year.... bought a $150 GPU.

Thats $750 for GPUs alone over a course of 5 years... when i add in the entire system price, including the cost of XP, and windows 7 (in order to take advantage of DX 10) its been pretty expensive to PC game this gen.

So basically you dont know how to spend your money correctly. Lol. ^example of person not buying bang for you buck.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

My first 8800GT cost me $260 and the 2nd costed me $125 in 2008, I got the 2nd card for more performance and for Physx use too and also since I gotten a high resolution monitor. But yet I havent had the need to upgrade my graphics since then.... My computer runs circles around what consoles can do in quality. Here's the thing I didnt have to get another card since even one still runs most new games on high settings fine, its my choice if I want something better, consoles dont get a choice.

04dcarraher

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for just GPUs.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

But yet each 8800GTis nearly4x faster with 2x the video memory then ethier the PS3 or 360's gpu.... Plus I use my gpu's for more then just gpu's....

maybe in terms of raw power. But in terms of performance... probably not too huge of a leap.

But thats the main problem with PC gaming, why show up to the party with a bottom of the barrel system? nobody likes competing at a disadvantage... so there is alot of pressure to upgrade. You clearly felt it if you chose to SLI. Every PC gamer feels it. With consoles. you know you got the best hardware in the game.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for GPUs alone.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

markinthedark

I had two original 360s... both red ringed... but after the free repairs... both are going strong until this day. So my original 360 purchases are still functioning with no problems.

minus the 2 week repair period.

Your lucky then because my brother is on his 4th 360, two were repared but last time MS warranty didnt cover his Error code so instead of him spending nearly $200 at the time I let hm buy my 360 for $75. Then one of my friend's is on his 5th 360 while having to buy two of the 360's out of his own pocket.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"] Well, I built my PC in 2008 for $600 and am still maxing out most games and playing event he most noteworthy titles at very acceptable frame rates. No upgrades. No downtime. Free online and better technical and graphical quality. edinsftw

I spent $600 for my GPU at the tail end of 2006, and it barely ourperforms my 360 that i bought a year ealier for $400. In fact i felt the need to replace my $600 4 year old gpu last year.... bought a $150 GPU.

Thats $750 for GPUs alone over a course of 5 years... when i add in the entire system price, including the cost of XP, and windows 7 (in order to take advantage of DX 10) its been pretty expensive to PC game this gen.

So basically you dont know how to spend your money correctly. Lol. ^example of person not buying bang for you buck.

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing. And they werent even DX10 compatible.

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I spent $600 for my GPU at the tail end of 2006, and it barely ourperforms my 360 that i bought a year ealier for $400. In fact i felt the need to replace my $600 4 year old gpu last year.... bought a $150 GPU.

Thats $750 for GPUs alone over a course of 5 years... when i add in the entire system price, including the cost of XP, and windows 7 (in order to take advantage of DX 10) its been pretty expensive to PC game this gen.

markinthedark

So basically you dont know how to spend your money correctly. Lol. ^example of person not buying bang for you buck.

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing.

If you have ever bought gpus, you wait till they have competetion as you will see a massive reduction in price. Everyone who has been building pcs for an ammount of time knows that.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I had two original 360s... both red ringed... but after the free repairs... both are going strong until this day. So my original 360 purchases are still functioning with no problems.

minus the 2 week repair period.

markinthedark

I spent $600 for my GPU at the tail end of 2006, and it barely ourperforms my 360 that i bought a year ealier for $400. In fact i felt the need to replace my $600 4 year old gpu last year.... bought a $150 GPU.

Thats $750 for GPUs alone over a course of 5 years... when i add in the entire system price, including the cost of XP, and windows 7 (in order to take advantage of DX 10) its been pretty expensive to PC game this gen.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

first card was 2007 right? so $385 in less than a 2 year period alone? pretty pricey for just GPUs.

whereas a $300 360 in 2005 is still playing modern games to date.

markinthedark

But yet each 8800GTis nearly4x faster with 2x the video memory then ethier the PS3 or 360's gpu.... Plus I use my gpu's for more then just gpu's....

maybe in terms of raw power. But in terms of performance... probably not too huge of a leap.

But thats the main problem with PC gaming, why show up to the party with a bottom of the barrel system? nobody likes competing at a disadvantage... so there is alot of pressure to upgrade. You clearly felt it if you chose to SLI. Every PC gamer feels it. With consoles. you know you got the best hardware in the game.

Lol, in terms of raw more but not performance ok... thats a bunch of bull its ethier faster or it isnt........ There's so much pressure to upgrade that I didint have upgrade a single thing for nearly 3 years , building and playing on Pc's is a hobby.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I had two original 360s... both red ringed... but after the free repairs... both are going strong until this day. So my original 360 purchases are still functioning with no problems.

minus the 2 week repair period.

markinthedark

I spent $600 for my GPU at the tail end of 2006, and it barely ourperforms my 360 that i bought a year ealier for $400. In fact i felt the need to replace my $600 4 year old gpu last year.... bought a $150 GPU.

Thats $750 for GPUs alone over a course of 5 years... when i add in the entire system price, including the cost of XP, and windows 7 (in order to take advantage of DX 10) its been pretty expensive to PC game this gen.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

So basically you dont know how to spend your money correctly. Lol. ^example of person not buying bang for you buck.

edinsftw

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing.

If you have ever bought gpus, you wait till they have competetion as you will see a massive reduction in price. Everyone who has been building pcs for an ammount of time knows that.

I had a PC build from 2005 as well. That thing was garbage in comparison. I guess if you wanna spend 3-4 years wating for PC prices to drop after a console launch, you can find good deals that can match performance.

but no sort of PC graphics enthusiast will wait that long for PC prices to drop.

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I spent $600 for my GPU at the tail end of 2006, and it barely ourperforms my 360 that i bought a year ealier for $400. In fact i felt the need to replace my $600 4 year old gpu last year.... bought a $150 GPU.

Thats $750 for GPUs alone over a course of 5 years... when i add in the entire system price, including the cost of XP, and windows 7 (in order to take advantage of DX 10) its been pretty expensive to PC game this gen.

markinthedark

So basically you dont know how to spend your money correctly. Lol. ^example of person not buying bang for you buck.

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing. And they werent even DX10 compatible.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

So basically you dont know how to spend your money correctly. Lol. ^example of person not buying bang for you buck.

Iantheone

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing. And they werent even DX10 compatible.

8800s were, but there was no 8800gt at that point. Only the 8800gtx. The 8800gt came later.

EDIT: no im sorry the 880gts was out at that point, but the 8800gtx still outperformend 2 of them SLI in benchmarks.

[QUOTE="Iantheone"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing. And they werent even DX10 compatible.

markinthedark

8800s were, but there was no 8800gt at that point. Only the 8800gtx. The 8800gt came later.

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing.

markinthedark

If you have ever bought gpus, you wait till they have competetion as you will see a massive reduction in price. Everyone who has been building pcs for an ammount of time knows that.

I had a PC build from 2005 as well. That thing was garbage in comparison. I guess if you wanna spend 3-4 years wating for PC prices to drop after a console launch, you can find good deals that can match performance.

but no sort of PC graphics enthusiast will wait that long for PC prices to drop.

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

When i bought my system in 2006, the $600 8800gtx was the best price/performance card on the market. If i SLI's the 2nd best cards on the market, it didnt come close to competing.

markinthedark

If you have ever bought gpus, you wait till they have competetion as you will see a massive reduction in price. Everyone who has been building pcs for an ammount of time knows that.

I had a PC build from 2005 as well. That thing was garbage in comparison. I guess if you wanna spend 3-4 years wating for PC prices to drop after a console launch, you can find good deals that can match performance.

but no sort of PC graphics enthusiast will wait that long for PC prices to drop.

It does not take 3-4 years it takes about 6 months, but yes it did take around a year around the era of the 8800.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Iantheone"] The 8800s werent even DX10 compatible?Iantheone

8800s were, but there was no 8800gt at that point. Only the 8800gtx. The 8800gt came later.

Also, There was the 8800GTS series too along with the 8800GTX....

Yeah if games moved as quickly as PC gamers want then no one would be able to play them except a few who have 12GB RAM and SLI GTX 580's... Atleast with consoles around devs can sell games to a wider audience of PC gamers and console gamers which as much as PC gamers hate to admit it keeps them in business and allows for more games to be made, if all games were what PC gamers seem to imagine they'd be like without consoles then i'd like to see my 5770 cope with them, i know for sure i'd have to drop a fortune on my PC or quit buying newer games which completely goes against everything i stand for. So as much as Elitists and hermits hate to say it having PC games at a requirements level which is accessible to say 80% of desktops then they get more sales. To me it feels like PC gamers want personal attention after buying a $2000 rig and then complaining that nothing maxes it out they basically say "Make me a game designed for my computer even though it'll cost a fortune and a long time to make and only about 1% of PCs can play i'm so self-centred i want it!!".JohnF111

No, lol, Why do you think there is low, medium and high settings or multiple setting options since the beginning of Pc gaming? The problem is that the Pc hardware standards are leagues ahead of current consoles. When $50 Pc gpu's and or old Pc gpu's from 6 years ago are able to match or surpass console graphical abilities, multiplatform gaming is holding back Pc gaming.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="Iantheone"] The 8800s werent even DX10 compatible?Iantheone

8800s were, but there was no 8800gt at that point. Only the 8800gtx. The 8800gt came later.

yes i know, im sorry... the 8800gts was out then... but a single 8800gtx was outperforming 2 8800gts; in benchmarks. And with upgradability in mind i figured i would get another 8800gtx later, but they never dropped below $450. So my plans of SLI officially died.

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

If you have ever bought gpus, you wait till they have competetion as you will see a massive reduction in price. Everyone who has been building pcs for an ammount of time knows that.

edinsftw

I had a PC build from 2005 as well. That thing was garbage in comparison. I guess if you wanna spend 3-4 years wating for PC prices to drop after a console launch, you can find good deals that can match performance.

but no sort of PC graphics enthusiast will wait that long for PC prices to drop.

It does not take 3-4 years it takes about 6 months, but yes it did take around a year around the era of the 8800.

I waited what 9 or ten months to get a 8800GT for $125 vs $250-$270 starting price... :?

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I had a PC build from 2005 as well. That thing was garbage in comparison. I guess if you wanna spend 3-4 years wating for PC prices to drop after a console launch, you can find good deals that can match performance.

but no sort of PC graphics enthusiast will wait that long for PC prices to drop.

04dcarraher

It does not take 3-4 years it takes about 6 months, but yes it did take around a year around the era of the 8800.

I waited what 9 or ten months to get a 8800GT for $125 vs $250-$270 starting price... :?

[QUOTE="Iantheone"][QUOTE="markinthedark"]

8800s were, but there was no 8800gt at that point. Only the 8800gtx. The 8800gt came later.

04dcarraher

Also, There was the 8800GTS series too along with the 8800GTX....

yea i made a correction... see my other response.

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

[QUOTE="markinthedark"]

I had a PC build from 2005 as well. That thing was garbage in comparison. I guess if you wanna spend 3-4 years wating for PC prices to drop after a console launch, you can find good deals that can match performance.

but no sort of PC graphics enthusiast will wait that long for PC prices to drop.

04dcarraher

It does not take 3-4 years it takes about 6 months, but yes it did take around a year around the era of the 8800.

I waited what 9 or ten months to get a 8800GT for $125 vs $250-$270 starting price... :?

the 8800 gt was released 2 years after the xbox 360.... which launched at an entry level price tag of $300 for the whole system. So if you waited 9-10 months... you were almost 3 years behind.

The 8800 gt launched 2 full years after the 360 for $250, for the gpu alone. Only $50 less than the cost of an entire launch 360 system.

My laptop spits on and starts fire to consoles, so laptops aren't the problem.

Neither are mobile devices, as they occupy a different segment of the gaming market.

Face it: consoles, and their extremely simple-no-thinking required mantra are the core problem due to multiplat development.

haberman13

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="edinsftw"]

It does not take 3-4 years it takes about 6 months, but yes it did take around a year around the era of the 8800.

markinthedark

I waited what 9 or ten months to get a 8800GT for $125 vs $250-$270 starting price... :?

the 8800 gt was released 2 years after the xbox 360.... which launched at an entry level price tag of $300 for the whole system. So if you waited 9-10 months... you were almost 3 years behind.

The 8800 gt launched 2 full years after the 360 for $250, for the gpu alone. Only $50 less than the cost of an entire launch 360 system.

Huh? so if you waited on what for 9-10 months you would be 3 years behind? That dont even make any sense...... Or are you talking about waiting for console prices?

But yet that single gpu upgrade still works to this daywhile still being alot stronger then that whole console.... Anyone that had common sense didnt get the $300 version of the 360 at launch and 98% ofearly 360's dont even work today. I can also point out that the 8800GTX and 8800GTS came out shortly after the PS3 and the PS3 was $600-$700 depending on time and place.

what's hurting (not killing) PC gaming is..... portable computing. Yes portable computing, not the consoles. PC gaming will survive, it won't die, but without a doubt it is being hurt. And it is my firm belief that it's portable computing that's hurting PC gaming.

ok so what do I mean by portable computing?

well if I remember correctly in 2008 laptop sales overtook desktop sales for the first time and hasn't looked back. developments in technology has lead to portable devices undertaking more and more of what the traditional desktop has done including gaming.

by portable computing I mean:

Laptops- cheaper and more popular than ever. sales have overtaken desktops.

Netbooks - ultra cheap & portable laptops that sacrifice technology for size and battery life.

Smartphones - iPhone, Android

Portable Media players - iTouch etc

Over the last 5 years these have all rocketed and that is bound to have an impact on the desktop market. gone are the days people will shell out huge sums on a desktop. they've got a laptop/netbook and a smartphone. that's where their websurfing, content consuming and crucially 'lite gaming' comes from.

While consoles like PS3 and X360 have been blamed for harming computer gaming- I believe that the desktop which is undeniably the home of computer gaming has been more undermined by the development of portable computing.

most laptops are virtually useless for gaming as are all netbooks. unless of course you are after 'lite' gaming such as flash games.

the rise of smartphones which is predicted to hurt consoles the 3DS is infact hurting PC gaming also not because the games directly compete with the likes of top PC titles but because more time spent on a smartphone is less on a computer.

the rise of apps and games is making the digital content world a crowded market, a market that sees casuals drift away from PC gaming. If people ARE buying desktops these days its the usual horror stories- budget systems chained to IE and Word or worse still the bog standard systems retailers sell that have decent CPUs and RAM handicapped by weak or worse integrated graphics!!!

gone are the days little Johnny could persuadis mom to buy him a $1000+ desktop for 'school work' (which he would use mostly for gaming). now he might get a budget desktop or more likely a laptop that's of little use to PC gaming. he's got his smartphone, iPod or whatever. and Yes he probly does have a console.

the Problem with PC gaming that the portable world has caught up with it. Of course PC gaming won't die, it's just gotta learn to live in an ever more crowded market. a Market out there where most Windows systems are probably not being used for serious gaming.

There is a plus side to all of this however: This leaves more room for the enthusiasts and you get less problems of having to deal with casuals like you do on the consoles.

CwlHeddwyn

ACER W500 Tablet PC with AMD C-50 APU says Hi.

--------

Refer to http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3711

"That of course doesn't tell the full story, and in speaking with ATI we were informed that 70% of sales have been 4300/4500 parts - the lowest performing, least expensive offerings. 15% of sales are from the 4600 series, which is where reasonable gaming can finally enter the picture. As for the 4800 series, it's still sitting at less than 5% (with the remainder of ATI's sales apparently coming from older 3000 series parts). As far as high-end laptop graphics is concerned, NVIDIA has had a clear lead for a while, for a couple of reasons."

The above product mix can be applied forcurrent AMD Radeon HD 6400, 6500, 6600, 6700, 6800, 6900.

--------

X86 PC unit sales http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm#1.1

2010 PC unit sales: ~300.7 million

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From Oct 21, 2010http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1445/1/

"This was a big deal and over the past year AMD has successfully released eleven video cards in the Radeon HD 5000 series and sold more than 25 million DX11 video cards"

DX11 uptake is faster than XBox 360/PS3 consoles.

---------

[QUOTE="chris_yz80"][QUOTE="CwlHeddwyn"] most people buy laptops with integrated graphics or if they have graphics its gonna be weak. only hardcore people like the ones on gamespot would go for a gaming system.milannoir

I really need a moderator to explain to me why my post was erased. This is ridiculous. These forums are overwhelmed by offensive stuff that never gets moderated, and THIS was too much?

I don't see laptops as a threat to PC gaming. People who want to (prefer to etc etc.) play PC games will generally opt for a desktop for the reasons of performance, upgradeability and economy.

If anything, apps and the like could be seen as a gateway to "proper" PC gaming - they've seen what a modest PC can do and are interested in taking it to the next level.

LordRork