Consoles have no hidden "untapped" power

Untapped power that comes from the hardware? No, but there is untapped power that comes from developers getting better at getting more and more out of it.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

Its like saying a Geforce 7800GS with 256mb of memory with optiminzation can out preform a Geforce 7800GTX with 512mb. When anybody with some common sense knows that something slower and limited cant out process "out do" something elsethats faster.Its all about what they had to trim or cut out to make to run.

Teufelhuhn

No you cant phyically make the 7800GS perform better then a 7800GTX its like saying 100 mph is faster then 150 mph. For sheer processing power and abilites and memory there is possible way a slower GPU with half the memory and 60% the memory bandwidth can out pace the full blown version. And you giving some examples in what they can do to cut and trim and reallocate jobs and major tweaking they have to do to "get" the right balance of performance and graphics. No matter how you twist it they have to make some minor and major sacrifices because of the limited and dated hardware.

And yet console games continue to get better and better looking.

And yet console games continue to get better and better looking.

waltefmoney

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

And yet console games continue to get better and better looking.

04dcarraher

Yup, the graphical gap between Halo 3 and Halo Reach is an illusion.

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

Its like saying a Geforce 7800GS with 256mb of memory with optiminzation can out preform a Geforce 7800GTX with 512mb. When anybody with some common sense knows that something slower and limited cant out process "out do" something elsethats faster.Its all about what they had to trim or cut out to make to run.

04dcarraher

No you cant phyically make the 7800GS perform better then a 7800GTX its like saying 100 mph is faster then 150 mph. For sheer processing power and abilites and memory there is possible way a slower GPU with half the memory and 60% the memory bandwidth can out pace the full blown version. And you giving some examples in what they can do to cut and trim and reallocate jobs and major tweaking they have to do to "get" the right balance of performance and graphics. No matter how you twist it they have to make some minor and major sacrifices because of the limited and dated hardware.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

And yet console games continue to get better and better looking.

waltefmoney

Yup, the graphical gap between Halo 3 and Halo Reach is an illusion.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

And yet console games continue to get better and better looking.

Yup, the graphical gap between Halo 3 and Halo Reach is an illusion.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Its an Illusion.04dcarraher

Yup, the graphical gap between Halo 3 and Halo Reach is an illusion.

They're not using the base engine. They're using a new engine made from scratch, Bungie said so themselves. Also this is definitely NOT a graphical leap. Thanks.

Fanboys mistake "untapped power" for optimization.

LucLongleyMVP

The thread should have ended at this.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Its an Illusion.04dcarraher

Yup, the graphical gap between Halo 3 and Halo Reach is an illusion.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]

[QUOTE="Teufelhuhn"]

Of course you can make a 7800GS perform better than a 7800GTX. You think programmers just spend their time all day "cutting" things to make performance better? That's what you do when it's crunch time and you have no options left. For any GPU there's a 1000 ways to do anything, and they'll range from awful slow to blazing fast. Like for instance take skinning (skeletal animation): on newer GPU's you can do it by storing the bones in a texture and sampling in the vertex shader and it'll be plenty fast. On a 7800, it'll be dog slow since it's really bad at vertex texturing. If you made a skinning demo that used vertex texturing on a 7800 GTX and something more optimal (like shader constants) on a GTS, I'd bet a hundred bucks the GTS comes out on top. There's practically endless optimizations like this that you can make with fixed hardware, and they range from simple and obvious to very low-level and difficult to integrate.

ferret-gamer

I understand how optiminzation works on consoles but It can only go so far and for the most part have reached the end in what they can do in the software(OS and games) and their footprint on memory . Its the limits of the console itself is what fails them namely the 6 year old hardware and memory.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Its an Illusion.04dcarraher

Yup, the graphical gap between Halo 3 and Halo Reach is an illusion.

That was only beta...

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] If you want to call that a graphical gap, you can tell its using the same base engine as Halo 3. Halo 3 was a modified engine from Halo 2, From what Ive seen with Halo 3 and true screenshots and seeing the Beta MP theres not a whole lot different. Its like going from HL 2 to HL 2 : Episode 2 graphically. You can even go on with every Unreal 3 engine based game created for the 360 they all look the same with minor differences in graphics. 04dcarraher

They're not using the base engine. They're using a new engine made from scratch, Bungie said so themselves. Also this is definitely NOT a graphical leap. Thanks.

You can't be serious. Look at how much more jagged the assault rifle in Halo 3 was, look at how much more detail it has in Reach. Dude, consoles don't have untapped power, but developers have untapped potential.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

They're not using the base engine. They're using a new engine made from scratch, Bungie said so themselves. Also this is definitely NOT a graphical leap. Thanks.

You can't be serious. Look at how much more jagged the assault rifle in Halo 3 was, look at how much more detail it has in Reach. Dude, consoles don't have untapped power, but developers have untapped potential.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] Changing in how weapons and thing look is artistic, when comparing the resolutions and texture detail is another.04dcarraher

You can't be serious. Look at how much more jagged the assault rifle in Halo 3 was, look at how much more detail it has in Reach. Dude, consoles don't have untapped power, but developers have untapped potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzft2MUOALo

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

You can't be serious. Look at how much more jagged the assault rifle in Halo 3 was, look at how much more detail it has in Reach. Dude, consoles don't have untapped power, but developers have untapped potential.

waltefmoney

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzft2MUOALo

Its not like they will magically get strongerInstashot

Im not saying Halo 3 to Reach isnt an improvenment, Im saying its not a "graphical leap" But Halo Reach is using the base engine from 3."Halo: Reach will run on what Bungie says is a completely 'gutted' version of the Halo 3 engine" 04dcarraher

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Im not saying Halo 3 to Reach isnt an improvenment, Im saying its not a "graphical leap" But Halo Reach is using the base engine from 3."Halo: Reach will run on what Bungie says is a completely 'gutted' version of the Halo 3 engine" mitu123

No offense but it wasn't really hard to look better then Halo 3.

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Im not saying Halo 3 to Reach isnt an improvenment, Im saying its not a "graphical leap" But Halo Reach is using the base engine from 3."Halo: Reach will run on what Bungie says is a completely 'gutted' version of the Halo 3 engine" loadedboon

No offense but it wasn't really hard to look better then Halo 3.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] You know thats a bullshot dont you the actual game doesnot have that much AA. 04dcarraher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzft2MUOALo

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

You can't be serious. Look at how much more jagged the assault rifle in Halo 3 was, look at how much more detail it has in Reach. Dude, consoles don't have untapped power, but developers have untapped potential.

waltefmoney

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzft2MUOALo

You are right thats why i have my PC for eye candy, games like Shogun 2 will blow my mind with gameplay and graphics. Still i cant wait for Reach and Killzone 3 as well.

telefanatic

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] You know thats a bullshot dont you the actual game doesnot have that much AA. ferret-gamer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzft2MUOALo

Because it's an HD gameplay video, which shows exactly how much AA the actual game has? It doesn't have to prove that the picture isn't a bullshot, you know.

Dude. The difference is gigantifreakinmongous. See that? I had to fabricate a word to describe how big the difference is.windsquid9000

(...)"Halo: Reach will run on what Bungie says is a completely 'gutted' version of the Halo 3 engine" 04dcarraher

[QUOTE="windsquid9000"]Dude. The difference is gigantifreakinmongous. See that? I had to fabricate a word to describe how big the difference is.Kane04

I say again: aside from the basic character design, there are no similarities, visually.

[QUOTE="louisfoxton"]

[QUOTE="Instashot"]

Yeah and then I'd show them this

TheSterls

RE4 on Wii looks better then all those games as its being done in 480p . The fact is though the Wii is still on the same level as the Xbox which is sad. Its the only time a company released a console that was closer to its competitors previous consoles then there current ones.

Those are bullshots. That said, RE4 on the Wii is downright ugly in some places and really awesome in others, its a mixed bagand anddoes not look better than Ninja Gaiden.

So? If every console game looked and played like Crysis, I would have gotten a PC.

TheMaryCeleste

If more shooters would take the crysis approach instead of being linear as can be. It would be a great day for gaming.

Can i just ask, can a graphics card from 2005, still perform as well as the ones in consoles NOW?

I bet no single pc user replies.

[QUOTE="telefanatic"]

You are right thats why i have my PC for eye candy, games like Shogun 2 will blow my mind with gameplay and graphics. Still i cant wait for Reach and Killzone 3 as well.

stiggy321

Its not like they will magically get stronger, they have a set standard of hardware.

360 GPU=X1900XTX but with added tesselation support

PS3=7800 GTX customized

These will not get stronger somehow the way you guys think they will.

Games like Halo Reach, Gears 3, UC2, and KZ3 is what games will look like pretty much forever until Xbox 3 or PS4 comes out.

I highly doubt Reach or Gears 3 will be playable in 1080p either let alone 720p (Halo 3 wasn't).

Waiting till 2015 or something for new consoles is going to be hard long ride.

I'm not trying to insult consoles, they don't suck and have there places but graphics is what define next gen, its always been this way.

Instashot

So what you're basically saying is that the 360 and PS3 will be the first consoles in history to reach their graphical peak before the generation ends. You do realize that this has NEVER been the case right? From Atari 2600, NES, PS1, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, etc. Yet it will definitely happen this time...:|

Thank you. I'm so sick of hearing about how games will suddenly start to get better because of some hidden poer that's never been used before. It jsut isn't there.

The only thing that changes is the use of the hardware. As developers become more familliar and experienced with it, that's what makes games better.

[QUOTE="Instashot"]

Its not like they will magically get stronger, they have a set standard of hardware.

360 GPU=X1900XTX but with added tesselation support

PS3=7800 GTX customized

These will not get stronger somehow the way you guys think they will.

Games like Halo Reach, Gears 3, UC2, and KZ3 is what games will look like pretty much forever until Xbox 3 or PS4 comes out.

I highly doubt Reach or Gears 3 will be playable in 1080p either let alone 720p (Halo 3 wasn't).

Waiting till 2015 or something for new consoles is going to be hard long ride.

I'm not trying to insult consoles, they don't suck and have there places but graphics is what define next gen, its always been this way.

So what you're basically saying is that the 360 and PS3 will be the first consoles in history to reach their graphical peak before the generation ends. You do realize that this has NEVER been the case right? From Atari 2600, NES, PS1, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, etc. Yet it will definitely happen this time...:|

The Wii has Tremendous Untapped power.

(Cause Developers aren't using it!)

The Wii has Tremendous Untapped power.

(Cause Developers aren't using it!)

The Wii has Tremendous Untapped power.

(Cause Developers aren't using it!)

If sayajins have it's obvious consoles have too. :roll:

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"][QUOTE="Instashot"] There still isn't a Wii game that looks better than Ninja Gaiden, Doom 3, or Conker on the original Xbox.millerlight89

how can we take you seriously when you say you honestly believe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_yhlHOzp78

is BARELY better than

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktwVEYqnpcc

And if you think is on par with last gen renditions, You are STILL wrong, because:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1Bga5KTim4

still looks QUITE behind the current version.I mean this is SW where we believe Uncharted 2 Looks years ahead of U1 and they cant even compare.While the differences arent really as noticeable as Rogue agent ps2-Goldeneye wii. But because the wii is the one you hate, it baaarely looksbetter than N64.Lets get serious shall we?. The improvement its there and is not small. And btwALL games are cash ins. What matters is if they are good and worth our cash.

[QUOTE="mariokart64fan"][QUOTE="Instashot"] There still isn't a Wii game that looks better than Ninja Gaiden, Doom 3, or Conker on the original Xbox.millerlight89

It doesn't look that bad, graphically. The HD consoles make it look worse than it does.