Debunking the Myth: MGS4 Wont Fit on DVD9

As most know, Hideo Kojima said that Blu-Ray is too small for MGS4, going on to say not so much because of graphics, but because of audio. He obviously means using a lossless audio format like TrueHD. Here is why this doesn't matter.

TrueHD is MUCH lager than regular Dobly Digital, requiring Blu Ray or HD-DVD. Well the 360 has neither, so does that mean MGS4 wont work? No. The 360 can't even decode next gen audio formats, meaning if MGS4 went to the 360 it wouldnt use a lossless codec like the PS3 would. It would use normal, 5.1 Dobly Digital. Do you really think MGS4 has some unprecedent amount of audio? More than, say, Mass Effect? Yeah, thats pretty much impossible considering how much dialog Mass Effect will have. Remeber KOTOR? Yeah, a lot more than that.

In conclusion, MGS4 might not fit on a 25GB disk, but only because he wants to use a lossless audio codec. Make it Dobly Digital and it will fit. I'm sure 90% of gamers dont have the audio equipment to even take advantage of TrueHD, let alone tell the difference.

*Note: I'm not saying MGS4 will come to the 360, I personally think it wont*

Ehh, I don't think that Audio can take up more than 5-10 Gigs of space at max, even if its lossless.

I think there are several Explanations

1. The Game will be incredibly long

2. The Game has masses of improved textures that takeup space

3. The Game has random things only a genius like Kojima can think of.

He said its going to be a 50gb game. I still think it will come out on the 360, it will prolly just be really watered down and inferior.MGS9150

He said its going to be a 50gb game. I still think it will come out on the 360, it will prolly just be really watered down and inferior.MGS9150

That's totally false. All of this "TrueHD" stuff is really only noticeable to audiophiles with very expensive sound systems. Visually the game does nothing the 360 couldn't handle.

Ehh, I don't think that Audio can take up more than 5-10 Gigs of space at max, even if its lossless.

I think there are several Explanations

1. The Game will be incredibly long

2. The Game has masses of improved textures that takeup space

3. The Game has random things only a genius like Kojima can think of.

KoreanX

Ehh, I don't think that Audio can take up more than 5-10 Gigs of space at max, even if its lossless.

I think there are several Explanations

1. The Game will be incredibly long

2. The Game has masses of improved textures that takeup space

3. The Game has random things only a genius like Kojima can think of.

KoreanX

Audio is one of the biggest space hogs in games, the only thing that tends to take up more space is FMVs. Textures and regular game files don't take up much space at all and can be easily compressed without loosing quality.

To have a system which takes advantage of lossless audio, you need to be an audio enthusiast among audio enthusiasts.KirbyFan10101

Most PC games use Mp3 sound and they sound good. I have not listened to an audio CD in ages since WMA/MP3 music sounds really good. So yea you need to be an enthusiasts to really care about lossless audio.

Ehh, I don't think that Audio can take up more than 5-10 Gigs of space at max, even if its lossless.

I think there are several Explanations

1. The Game will be incredibly long

2. The Game has masses of improved textures that takeup space

3. The Game has random things only a genius like Kojima can think of.

KoreanX

The fact that compression techniques aren't as advanced in ps3 development also plays a role in that. Kojima plans to do alot with sound and I can believe that it'd actually use that much space contrary to what the TC has said. I'm pretty positive Kojima plans on using blu-ray for texture streaming, and that requires alot of space if you want to get the best out of it.

what kojima said was BS

he says 50gb will fill up fast, yet he couldnt fill 4.5 gb dvd on ps2 with mgs3, and how long did it take to make that? yeah i personally think it can fit on dvd9, maybe some minor sacrifices, but he wants people to buy ps3 so he doesnt have to port to 360Riki101

Theres more polygons in snakes mustache than their was in snakes entire character of MGS3.

Lots of uncompressed data, alot of voice acting, and huge texture resolutions. That's the reason why Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs.

For Blue Dragon, by having uncompressed data, it allowed the game to load faster.

Except for MGS3, the Metal Gear Solid games had very little or no loading at all.

Ehh, I don't think that Audio can take up more than 5-10 Gigs of space at max, even if its lossless.

I think there are several Explanations

1. The Game will be incredibly long

2. The Game has masses of improved textures that takeup space

3. The Game has random things only a genius like Kojima can think of.

KoreanX

Off-Topic:

Lol, your 3rd GIF (The Swimming one) Is hilarious

Lots of uncompressed data, alot of voice acting, and huge texture resolutions. That's the reason why Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs.

For Blue Dragon, by having uncompressed data, it allowed the game to load faster.

Except for MGS3, the Metal Gear Solid games had very little or no loading at all.

LoserMike

Why do PS3 games load longer than 360 games? Games like Oblivion installs 4 gigs of data and Ninja Gaiden does 3 gigs.

The true reasons it won't be on the 360 isn't because of the space needed.

1. Kojima hates ports. Aboslutely hates them. Paraphrase "When I make a game, I make it to take advantage of that systems hardware." That pretty much is saying he will never do a multiplatform game, and will never port a game again. Konami knows Kojima hated porting MGS2, and if Konami wants to really piss him off and make him leave the company, they would make him port MGS4.

2. Octocam. NEEDS the Cell. Not "Well they could dumb it down or something to make it work without the Cell." No. It absolutely NEEDS the Cell. If the odd chance that the 360 gets MGS4, Microsoft either has to redesign the 360 with the Cell, or Lemmings will be playing MGS4 without the Octocam.

Lemmings, the 360 won't be getting MGS4. Find another game Cows have and beg for that. Because MGS4 is the one game that you won't get. I can bet the farm on it.

[QUOTE="LoserMike"]

Lots of uncompressed data, alot of voice acting, and huge texture resolutions. That's the reason why Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs.

For Blue Dragon, by having uncompressed data, it allowed the game to load faster.

Except for MGS3, the Metal Gear Solid games had very little or no loading at all.

Deihmos

Why do PS3 games load longer than 360 games? Games like Oblivion installs 4 gigs of data and Ninja Gaiden does 3 gigs.

Because you're generalizing too much. Oblivion for the ps3 does have faster load times than the 360 version. NGS probably has pretty quick load times as well... It depends on the game and the dev...

[QUOTE="LoserMike"]

Lots of uncompressed data, alot of voice acting, and huge texture resolutions. That's the reason why Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs.

For Blue Dragon, by having uncompressed data, it allowed the game to load faster.

Except for MGS3, the Metal Gear Solid games had very little or no loading at all.

Deihmos

Why do PS3 games load longer than 360 games? Games like Oblivion installs 4 gigs of data and Ninja Gaiden does 3 gigs.

From what I have read about the game it won't be as linear as past games. It will also involve a lot of travel between locations. I am sure that the 360 can visually pull off MGS4. I don't know if the 360 CPU can calculate bullet holes and destructable environments that arent canned like the cell is doing in this game. I don't think it can pull off changing disks every time you change locations. Not to mention TrueHD needs to be heard to be apreciated. Sound is often overlooked in games but with the right setup makes for a much more enjoyable game.

You have to be aware that the 360 DVD is not a full DVD-9. There is only around 7GB per disc available. There are also speed penalties accociated with the second layer of a DL disc on the 360. Most of the info needs to be placed on the outer edge of the drive to maintain anywhere near the 12X DVD speed advertised. Look at Gears taking a while to load textures if you want examples.

The funny thing about all of this is that the game will need to be compromised in some way to work on the 360. Ever read a multiplatform comparison thread on this site? If a peice of garbage blows by in the 360 version of a game and it doesn't exist on the PS3 version there is a 20 page battle. People are owned and damage control runs wild. I would hate to see a butchered MGS4 comparison thread.

lemms,they want mgs4 on their 360.

admit it lemms,mgs4 wont fit on dvd9,its called movie gear solid 4 for a reason

2. Octocam. NEEDS the Cell. Not "Well they could dumb it down or something to make it work without the Cell." No. It absolutely NEEDS the Cell. If the odd chance that the 360 gets MGS4, Microsoft either has to redesign the 360 with the Cell, or Lemmings will be playing MGS4 without the Octocam.Not-A-Stalker

I honestly can't believe people think this is true. It's a load of nonsense.

[QUOTE="LoserMike"]

Lots of uncompressed data, alot of voice acting, and huge texture resolutions. That's the reason why Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs.

For Blue Dragon, by having uncompressed data, it allowed the game to load faster.

Except for MGS3, the Metal Gear Solid games had very little or no loading at all.

Deihmos

Why do PS3 games load longer than 360 games? Games like Oblivion installs 4 gigs of data and Ninja Gaiden does 3 gigs.

Well, it has more to do with the drive-speed of the Blu-Ray drive. It runs slower, I don't know what the approx. transfer rate is, but it's still slow, and taking that time to fill in the required RAM takes some more time. It's a similar case with the Xbox 360, but it's less severe.

He said its going to be a 50gb game. I still think it will come out on the 360, it will prolly just be really watered down and inferior.MGS9150

Kojima himself said that MGS4 can run on 360. LINK

Now get ready to lose another big exclusive.

[QUOTE="LoserMike"]

Lots of uncompressed data, alot of voice acting, and huge texture resolutions. That's the reason why Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs.

For Blue Dragon, by having uncompressed data, it allowed the game to load faster.

Except for MGS3, the Metal Gear Solid games had very little or no loading at all.

Deihmos

Why do PS3 games load longer than 360 games? Games like Oblivion installs 4 gigs of data and Ninja Gaiden does 3 gigs.

Because every PS3 has a hard drive. Oblivion installs that 4 GB when you start playing. There is no wait or installer. If you have the HDD there why not use it. A HDD is faster than a disc based medium every time. I have both games and some downloaded games and have plenty of space left. When you are done playing oblivion you can just delete the file. No worries. Why is this a negative?

[QUOTE="Not-A-Stalker"]2. Octocam. NEEDS the Cell. Not "Well they could dumb it down or something to make it work without the Cell." No. It absolutely NEEDS the Cell. If the odd chance that the 360 gets MGS4, Microsoft either has to redesign the 360 with the Cell, or Lemmings will be playing MGS4 without the Octocam.Raidea

I honestly can't believe people think this is true. It's a load of nonsense.

Explain. What PS3 games have you developed lately? I'll believe what Kojima says before someone on GS forums.

[QUOTE="Not-A-Stalker"]2. Octocam. NEEDS the Cell. Not "Well they could dumb it down or something to make it work without the Cell." No. It absolutely NEEDS the Cell. If the odd chance that the 360 gets MGS4, Microsoft either has to redesign the 360 with the Cell, or Lemmings will be playing MGS4 without the Octocam.Raidea

I honestly can't believe people think this is true. It's a load of nonsense.

Things like these are usually half truths. The way the Otocam is currently coded probably requires the Cell to work. If it were recoded from the ground up it could probably be done on the 360. It's the same with the claims that Gears or Splinter Cell 5 couldn't be done on the PS3, or Lair on the 360.

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]He said its going to be a 50gb game. I still think it will come out on the 360, it will prolly just be really watered down and inferior.brainiac24

Kojima himself said that MGS4 can run on 360. LINK

Now get ready to lose another big exclusive.

A lot of multiplat games that are on the 360 "run" on the ps3 as well. That doesn't stop lemmings from saying the 360 verison is superior for having slight advantages...

90% of gamers probably don't have the equipment but probably at least 20% of PS3 owners do ;)munu9

No I doubt that.

[QUOTE="Raidea"]

[QUOTE="Not-A-Stalker"]2. Octocam. NEEDS the Cell. Not "Well they could dumb it down or something to make it work without the Cell." No. It absolutely NEEDS the Cell. If the odd chance that the 360 gets MGS4, Microsoft either has to redesign the 360 with the Cell, or Lemmings will be playing MGS4 without the Octocam.TyrantDragon55

I honestly can't believe people think this is true. It's a load of nonsense.

Things like these are usually half truths. The way the Otocam is currently coded, probably requires the Cell to work. If it were recoded from the ground up, it could probably be done on the 360. It's the same with the claims that Gears or Splinter Cell 5 couldn't be done on the PS3, or Lair on the 360.

At the end of the day, all the cell is is a fast way to process data.

There are no magical features that the cell has that make it any different than a PC processor of the same speed. Any game I see on the 360, I know can be done on the PS3 and visa versa for the PS3 to the 360. The way the code is allocated to be processed would be different (as the cell is essentialy 7 small processors all doing individual tasks) but the outcome on each console would be roughly the same.

The way the processing for the Octocam is currently allocated may only be viable on the cell. But to say it can't be coded a different way to work on another platform is nonsense.

Edit: You don't have to be a PS3 programmer to know extremely basic computer theory.

[QUOTE="Deihmos"][QUOTE="LoserMike"]

Lots of uncompressed data, alot of voice acting, and huge texture resolutions. That's the reason why Blue Dragon is 3 DVDs.

For Blue Dragon, by having uncompressed data, it allowed the game to load faster.

Except for MGS3, the Metal Gear Solid games had very little or no loading at all.

JLuke360

Why do PS3 games load longer than 360 games? Games like Oblivion installs 4 gigs of data and Ninja Gaiden does 3 gigs.

Well, it has more to do with the drive-speed of the Blu-Ray drive. It runs slower, I don't know what the approx. transfer rate is, but it's still slow, and taking that time to fill in the required RAM takes some more time. It's a similar case with the Xbox 360, but it's less severe.

The 360 drive hardly ever reaches the advertised speed. The PS3 drive is a constant speed. The differences are a lot less than what people want you to believe. Early PS3 games had the game spread out all over the discs. FNR3!!!!!. This made the games load a lot slower because it had to jump all over to access the data. Transfer speed wasn't the problem. It was access times. 360 games are mastered to take advantage of the outer ring being the fastest so the most important data is stored there. Recent PS3 games suffer no loading time penalties. Upcomming games it isn't an issue. Uncharterd has 1 load when you start and you never see one again. Since every PS3 is guaranteed to have a HDD why not install on there. Its faster than both the 360 drive and the PS3 drive.

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]He said its going to be a 50gb game. I still think it will come out on the 360, it will prolly just be really watered down and inferior.brainiac24

Kojima himself said that MGS4 can run on 360. LINK

Now get ready to lose another big exclusive.

Date: Nov 16th 2005 :|

[QUOTE="brainiac24"]

[QUOTE="MGS9150"]He said its going to be a 50gb game. I still think it will come out on the 360, it will prolly just be really watered down and inferior.munu9

Kojima himself said that MGS4 can run on 360. LINK

Now get ready to lose another big exclusive.

A lot of multiplat games that are on the 360 "run" on the ps3 as well. That doesn't stop lemmings from saying the 360 verison is superior for having slight advantages...

I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that MGS4 can run on 360, which is what this thread is about. And I do think it will come to 360, because of how much larger the 360 install base is. Companies are here to make money. If no one has a PS3, why would Konami spend millions of dollars producing a game that won't produce enough revenue?

Ehh, I don't think that Audio can take up more than 5-10 Gigs of space at max, even if its lossless.

I think there are several Explanations

1. The Game will be incredibly long

2. The Game has masses of improved textures that takeup space

3. The Game has random things only a genius like Kojima can think of.

KoreanX

There's no way the PS3 (or 360, for that matter) could make use of 40GB of textures when the system only has 512MB of total RAM (which has to be used for other things as well).

[QUOTE="TyrantDragon55"][QUOTE="Raidea"]

[QUOTE="Not-A-Stalker"]2. Octocam. NEEDS the Cell. Not "Well they could dumb it down or something to make it work without the Cell." No. It absolutely NEEDS the Cell. If the odd chance that the 360 gets MGS4, Microsoft either has to redesign the 360 with the Cell, or Lemmings will be playing MGS4 without the Octocam.Raidea

I honestly can't believe people think this is true. It's a load of nonsense.

Things like these are usually half truths. The way the Otocam is currently coded, probably requires the Cell to work. If it were recoded from the ground up, it could probably be done on the 360. It's the same with the claims that Gears or Splinter Cell 5 couldn't be done on the PS3, or Lair on the 360.

At the end of the day, all the cell is is a fast way to process data.

There are no magical features that the cell has that make it any different than a PC processor of the same speed. Any game I see on the 360, I know can be done on the PS3 and visa versa for the PS3 to the 360. The way the code is allocated to be processed would be different (as the cell is essentialy 7 small processors all doing individual tasks) but the outcome on each console would be roughly the same.

The way the processing for the Octocam is currently allocated may only be viable on the cell. But to say it can't be coded a different way to work on another platform is nonsense.

Perhaps it is an extreme amount of floating point math that the 360 CPU can't handle as well as the PS3. Perhaps having octocam and real destructable environments and bullet holes all running at the same time is too much for the 360 CPU to handle. Perhaps there isn't enough bandwidth on the shared memory controller to pump all of this to the screen and have all of these calculations happen. It could be possible to fake.

If you looke at what the Octocam is it lets you blend in to whatever you are around. It seems to be doing this very precicely on the PS3. I am sure you can make it less precice and fake the effect or make the environments pre canned destructable like every other game.

The better option is that people can be less cheap and go and buy a PS3 to enjoy this great game that Kojima has made for us tailored for this system. Not to mention all of the other Sony 1st party stuff.

Compression and HDD streaming would have easily made MGS4 work on DVD9.foxhound_fox

Did you want to tell the 360 core users they can't play this game or should I?

Did you want to tell the 360 core users they can't play this game or should I?iwo4life

If you looke at what the Octocam is it lets you blend in to whatever you are around. It seems to be doing this very precicely on the PS3. I am sure you can make it less precice and fake the effect or make the environments pre canned destructable like every other game.

iwo4life

But seriously, doing something like that can't be that hard... it seems like it would just involve taking the textures of whatever's behind Snake and replacing his suit textures with those. I don't have much programming knowledg (at least not related to 3d graphics), so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

He said its going to be a 50gb game. I still think it will come out on the 360, it will prolly just be really watered down and inferior.MGS9150

if its is weatered down untill it reach gears of wat quality ill be more than happy.see where im going with this.not evryone has 1080p u know

Perhaps it is an extreme amount of floating point math that the 360 CPU can't handle as well as the PS3. Perhaps having octocam and real destructable environments and bullet holes all running at the same time is too much for the 360 CPU to handle. Perhaps there isn't enough bandwidth on the shared memory controller to pump all of this to the screen and have all of these calculations happen. It could be possible to fake.

If you looke at what the Octocam is it lets you blend in to whatever you are around. It seems to be doing this very precicely on the PS3. I am sure you can make it less precice and fake the effect or make the environments pre canned destructable like every other game.iwo4life

But do you honestly think, based on the current games on the market for the 360 that it would not be able to handle all what you have just posted? We know the 360 CPU is not up to the cells capabilities, but that's why the 360 has a powerful graphics processor.

There are not just positives on the PS3 side either, the 360 does have a few things that the PS3 does not. Which Bethesda studios found while doing the Oblivion port.

Faking it is not necessarily a negative either, it's just a different way of achieving the same effect in the end. The very idea that they would have to cut the Octocam out of the game entirely for a 360 version to work is what I find astonishing. You said it yourself, it could be done differently (faked).

The better option is that people can be less cheap and go and buy a PS3 to enjoy this great game that Kojima has made for us tailored for this system. Not to mention all of the other Sony 1st party stuff.iwo4life

That's true, but that isn't to do with the question. The question is could the 360 run it, not is the 360 getting it (the answer to that question is no, I think).

You go ahead. It was a huge mistake on Microsoft's part for not making a large HDD standard in the 360 lineup.foxhound_fox

I totally agree with this. Though it's not the end of the world (see GTA:IV) it was a feature that could easily have had, but excluded just to achieve a lower price point.

[QUOTE="iwo4life"]Did you want to tell the 360 core users they can't play this game or should I?foxhound_fox

The 360 works fine without needing a hard drive. The Ps3 media is 25 gigs and Oblivion is about 4 gigs so to improve load time they dumped the majority of the game to the hard drive. For someone with a 20 gig drive it can become problematic.

The 360 works fine without needing a hard drive. The Ps3 media is 25 gigs and Oblivion is about 4 gigs so to improve load time they dumped the majority of the game to the hard drive. For someone with a 20 gig drive it can become problematic.Deihmos