DEFINITELY won't buy a 360 now ....

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JDW_games

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#1 JDW_games
Member since 2006 • 1892 Posts
I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way.
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LINKloco

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#2 LINKloco
Member since 2004 • 14514 Posts
That's what is preventing me from buying a 360, then I turn to the PS3 and I'm not really interested in it's current game library. Sux.
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Bigboi500

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#3 Bigboi500
Member since 2007 • 35550 Posts
My new 360 does not get any hotter than my Wii does.
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flclempire

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#4 flclempire
Member since 2004 • 4914 Posts
That's what is preventing me from buying a 360, then I turn to the PS3 and I'm not really interested in it's current game library. Sux.LINKloco
ditto
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Nogard229

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#5 Nogard229
Member since 2006 • 208 Posts
well i guess your wrong the new falcon thing is out on 360 its not supposed to have problems anymore overheating i never had that problem at all ihad it for almost 2 check it out if you want its been out already for a while i think http://gear.ign.com/articles/824/824183p1.html
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deathtoallgods

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#6 deathtoallgods
Member since 2007 • 577 Posts

I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. JDW_games

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

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OremLK

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#7 OremLK
Member since 2007 • 745 Posts

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. deathtoallgods

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. Are you seriously going by what happened to a system in that situation? I'm sure plenty of consoles of all brands and models have failed under similar conditions. You should ask a GameStop manager how many he's seen die on him.

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Silvereign

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#8 Silvereign
Member since 2006 • 3006 Posts
AHAHA THE RED LIGHTS OF DOOM!!!:lol:
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Nogard229

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#9 Nogard229
Member since 2006 • 208 Posts
well i gave a better answer the new falcon motherboard is out on 360 its actually the best time to get a 360 1.doesnt overheat #2 the price is cheap now the chip is i forgot how many times cooler and it fixes other problems i left a link in my first post
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TheBlueGuardian

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#10 TheBlueGuardian
Member since 2007 • 88 Posts

I've never had a problem with overheating, the Elite seem's to run a lot smoother than my old premium one, i played mass effect for about 10-15 hour's straight and it didnt get RROD nor froze, i guess some people are lucky and some arn't.

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Silenthps

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#11 Silenthps
Member since 2006 • 7302 Posts

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. deathtoallgods

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

The new chipsets didnt fix the problem. The problem is in the GPU not the CPU
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Zhengi

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#12 Zhengi
Member since 2006 • 8479 Posts
[QUOTE="deathtoallgods"]

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. OremLK

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. Are you seriously going by what happened to a system in that situation? I'm sure plenty of consoles of all brands and models have failed under similar conditions. You should ask a GameStop manager how many he's seen die on him.

Right, cause the RROD only happens in game stores and it hasn't happened to any home users :roll:

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loudharley

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#13 loudharley
Member since 2005 • 1852 Posts

The 360s problems seem to be over so i suggest anyone that wants one to get one.It has the games that most people want and has a great online setup.Get it if ya like the games they offer,if not then get one of the other systems.Its pretty simple people,buy what u want and think has the best games.

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fabz_95

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#14 fabz_95
Member since 2006 • 15425 Posts

My new 360 does not get any hotter than my Wii does.Bigboi500

But has the Wii ever overheated?

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lordxymor

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#15 lordxymor
Member since 2004 • 2438 Posts
[QUOTE="deathtoallgods"]

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. Silenthps

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

The new chipsets didnt fix the problem. The problem is in the GPU not the CPU

Kotaku reported this last month: link

Maybe the problem is in the GPU indeed.

The big problem for me and many others is, if I want a 360 I'd have to import one. That makes using the warranty a pain, if possible at all(I don't know if the ship it back internationaly).

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klausklaus

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#16 klausklaus
Member since 2005 • 268 Posts

I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. JDW_games

There are many different failure codes with red lights you know? Liek when the video cable isnt plugged in correctly.

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jdp0412

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#17 jdp0412
Member since 2004 • 264 Posts
So you go to one store and see a RROD? I've seen both PS3 and 360 broken at demo kiosks before. Only one I've never seen with problems is Wii and you can't even play that at the Best Buys I've been too.
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EmperorSupreme

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#18 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7686 Posts

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. deathtoallgods

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

Except the new chipset hasn't fixed the problem. It's called a design defect and all X360s are still having the problem. Read the Amazon reviews on current X360s. They are still dying. No reputable website has said anything about the chipset solving the problem. Not even MS said it fixes the problem. The only ones saying it is fixed is X360 fanboys and that's the truth.

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AdolescentDon

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#19 AdolescentDon
Member since 2005 • 9081 Posts
I thought they fixed the problem now?
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axes03

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#20 axes03
Member since 2005 • 4454 Posts

i saw a broken Wii.....ZOMG!!!! "I WILL NEVR BUY TEH SYSTEM EVAAAAA" :roll:

you saw a 2 year old system thats on 16 hours a day and trapped in a glass shell, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT!!!???

your loss, and looking at your logic, you dont deserve a 360

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Chaos_HL21

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#21 Chaos_HL21
Member since 2003 • 5288 Posts

So you go to one store and see a RROD? I've seen both PS3 and 360 broken at demo kiosks before. Only one I've never seen with problems is Wii and you can't even play that at the Best Buys I've been too.jdp0412

Yeah, those store displays are just death traps for the system. I seen my fair share of PS3s TKP from it.

I also had my 360 for more than a year, and no problems.

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ragek1ll589

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#22 ragek1ll589
Member since 2007 • 8650 Posts
It could have easily been an older model, not a "falcon" model...
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cool_guy2000

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#23 cool_guy2000
Member since 2005 • 363 Posts

i saw a broken Wii.....ZOMG!!!! "I WILL NEVR BUY TEH SYSTEM EVAAAAA" :roll:

you saw a 2 year old system thats on 16 hours a day and trapped in a glass shell, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT!!!???

your loss, and looking at your logic, you dont deserve a 360

axes03

Fanboy at its best....you do realize how serious and big the problem is right? its not just one 360, but in fact all 360 have a design flaw.

but keep covering those eyes and pretending its not real.

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cool_guy2000

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#24 cool_guy2000
Member since 2005 • 363 Posts

It could have easily been an older model, not a "falcon" model...ragek1ll589

falcon or NO falcon...the problem is still there, its just a matter of time.

like a ticking time bomb.

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EmperorSupreme

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#25 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7686 Posts

So you go to one store and see a RROD? I've seen both PS3 and 360 broken at demo kiosks before. Only one I've never seen with problems is Wii and you can't even play that at the Best Buys I've been too.jdp0412

Just a FYI

Every X360 has the defect. It's a design problem not a component problem. Even MS has admitted that.

http://www.fastsilicon.com/latest-news/microsoft-admits-all-xbox360s-are-defective.html?Itemid=60

Sony has said the defect rate on PS3 is about the industry average for electronics, very low around 0.2% so less than 1%. Most people I see in the PS3 forums don't actually have a defective unit, they just don't know how to do something. It's funny how many people don't read the instructions :)

Wii I'm guessing is the same as PS3 because I haven't heard of any problems with it either.

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ragek1ll589

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#26 ragek1ll589
Member since 2007 • 8650 Posts

[QUOTE="ragek1ll589"]It could have easily been an older model, not a "falcon" model...cool_guy2000

falcon or NO falcon...the problem is still there, its just a matter of time.

like a ticking time bomb.


I am aware, that is whe reason why I have a product replacement plan from Best Buy. If RRoD were to strike, I get a brand new one on the spot.
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cool_guy2000

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#27 cool_guy2000
Member since 2005 • 363 Posts

[QUOTE="jdp0412"]So you go to one store and see a RROD? I've seen both PS3 and 360 broken at demo kiosks before. Only one I've never seen with problems is Wii and you can't even play that at the Best Buys I've been too.EmperorSupreme

Just a FYI

Every X360 has the defect. It's a design problem not a component problem. Even MS has admitted that.

http://www.fastsilicon.com/latest-news/microsoft-admits-all-xbox360s-are-defective.html?Itemid=60

Sony has said the defect rate on PS3 is about the industry average for electronics, very low around 0.2% so less than 1%. Most people I see in the PS3 forums don't actually have a defective unit, they just don't know how to do something. It's funny how many people don't read the instructions :)

Wii I'm guessing is the same as PS3 because I haven't heard of any problems with it either.

We have a WINNER.

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heretrix

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#28 heretrix
Member since 2004 • 37881 Posts

If a 3 year warranty and new hardware won't get you to buy one then whatever..I'm calling BS on the TC though.

Yes, I've seen many 360's red ringed in stores and it is a problem. But to come here and make a thread about it when it's been done so many times just shouts fanboy, especially when you cap it of with, "I'm going to get a PS3 instead".

How about you go buy your PS3 and not bore people to death with crap "I went to best buy and....." stories that have been posted innumerable times already, mmmkay?

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King_of_Sorrow

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#29 King_of_Sorrow
Member since 2007 • 1193 Posts

If a 3 year warranty and new hardware won't get you to buy one then whatever..I'm calling BS on the TC though.

Yes, I've seen many 360's red ringed in stores and it is a problem. But to come here and make a thread about it when it's been done so many times just shouts fanboy, especially when you cap it of with, "I'm going to get a PS3 instead".

How about you go buy your PS3 and not bore people to death with crap "I went to best buy and....." stories that have been posted innumerable times already, mmmkay?

heretrix

I enjoyed the TC post. RROD is the sore spot that get most 360 fans upset. i.e. your post :lol:

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rowzzr

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#30 rowzzr
Member since 2005 • 2375 Posts

That's what is preventing me from buying a 360, then I turn to the PS3 and I'm not really interested in it's current game library. Sux.LINKloco

2008 might be a good year to think of buying a ps3, though. :p

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DaysAirlines

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#31 DaysAirlines
Member since 2006 • 9537 Posts
My 360 is running strong and it's over two years old now.
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heretrix

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#32 heretrix
Member since 2004 • 37881 Posts
[QUOTE="heretrix"]

If a 3 year warranty and new hardware won't get you to buy one then whatever..I'm calling BS on the TC though.

Yes, I've seen many 360's red ringed in stores and it is a problem. But to come here and make a thread about it when it's been done so many times just shouts fanboy, especially when you cap it of with, "I'm going to get a PS3 instead".

How about you go buy your PS3 and not bore people to death with crap "I went to best buy and....." stories that have been posted innumerable times already, mmmkay?

King_of_Sorrow

I enjoyed the TC post. RROD is the sore spot that get most 360 fans upset. i.e. your post :lol:

Red ring stories don't get me upset. unoriginal BS stories that i've seen a million times do. And I'm not upset at all, I own a PS3. I've always stated that MS's hardware is crap.
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turgore

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#33 turgore
Member since 2006 • 7859 Posts
Well I saw a PS3 that was turned off . Is that the reason I'm not buying one ?
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Innovazero2000

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#34 Innovazero2000
Member since 2006 • 3159 Posts
[QUOTE="deathtoallgods"]

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. OremLK

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. Are you seriously going by what happened to a system in that situation? I'm sure plenty of consoles of all brands and models have failed under similar conditions. You should ask a GameStop manager how many he's seen die on him.

Exactly, I can count about 30 or 40 ps3's in displays frozen fom overheating. Why? Because of being in in-closed demo spaces where they can't breathe.

Take em home though, work just fine.

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axes03

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#35 axes03
Member since 2005 • 4454 Posts
[QUOTE="axes03"]

i saw a broken Wii.....ZOMG!!!! "I WILL NEVR BUY TEH SYSTEM EVAAAAA" :roll:

you saw a 2 year old system thats on 16 hours a day and trapped in a glass shell, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT!!!???

your loss, and looking at your logic, you dont deserve a 360

cool_guy2000

Fanboy at its best....you do realize how serious and big the problem is right? its not just one 360, but in fact all 360 have a design flaw.

but keep covering those eyes and pretending its not real.

Keep praying and muttering "just wait" while denying that you didnt flush your 600 bucks down the toilet, maybe youll sleep better at night.

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colmusterd28

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#36 colmusterd28
Member since 2006 • 2854 Posts

1. Falcon Chip is out and seems to have had a positive effect on the 360

2. I was at Gamestop last night rocking GH3 while I was waiting for my wife to finish up in target and behind me stood a completely bricked PS3... DEFINITELY won't buy a PS3 now ....

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EmperorSupreme

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#37 EmperorSupreme
Member since 2006 • 7686 Posts

My 360 is running strong and it's over two years old now.DaysAirlines

This reminds me of that guy I saw last week driving the Yugo. Every once in awhile somebody get's lucky.

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Pimpshigity21

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#38 Pimpshigity21
Member since 2005 • 1896 Posts
[QUOTE="deathtoallgods"]

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. Silenthps

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

The new chipsets didnt fix the problem. The problem is in the GPU not the CPU

You don't know what you are talking about.

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colmusterd28

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#39 colmusterd28
Member since 2006 • 2854 Posts
[QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"][QUOTE="heretrix"]

If a 3 year warranty and new hardware won't get you to buy one then whatever..I'm calling BS on the TC though.

Yes, I've seen many 360's red ringed in stores and it is a problem. But to come here and make a thread about it when it's been done so many times just shouts fanboy, especially when you cap it of with, "I'm going to get a PS3 instead".

How about you go buy your PS3 and not bore people to death with crap "I went to best buy and....." stories that have been posted innumerable times already, mmmkay?

heretrix

I enjoyed the TC post. RROD is the sore spot that get most 360 fans upset. i.e. your post :lol:

Red ring stories don't get me upset. unoriginal BS stories that i've seen a million times do. And I'm not upset at all, I own a PS3. I've always stated that MS's hardware is crap.

Agreed... It's amazing.... the failure rate of the 360 overall is probably 10% yet the failure rate for cows on Gamespot who don't even own a 360 is around 70%... Microsoft should really do something about this....

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TMontana1004

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#40 TMontana1004
Member since 2007 • 4537 Posts
Okay, and wait until 2009+ for the only game worth buying -- FFXIII.
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TMontana1004

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#41 TMontana1004
Member since 2007 • 4537 Posts

[QUOTE="Nogard229"]well i guess your wrong the new falcon thing is out on 360 its not supposed to have problems anymore overheating i never had that problem at all ihad it for almost 2 check it out if you want its been out already for a while i think http://gear.ign.com/articles/824/824183p1.html[/QUOTE]

Exactly -- I read that too. Cows can no longer use this whole RROD crap against us. P.S. I have never had a problem with my 360 soI am happy.

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DivergeUnify

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#42 DivergeUnify
Member since 2007 • 15150 Posts
It was probably an old old unit. My new one( got it maybe a month and a half ago) hasn't overheated, frozen or RRoD'd on me any.
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heretrix

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#43 heretrix
Member since 2004 • 37881 Posts
[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"][QUOTE="heretrix"]

If a 3 year warranty and new hardware won't get you to buy one then whatever..I'm calling BS on the TC though.

Yes, I've seen many 360's red ringed in stores and it is a problem. But to come here and make a thread about it when it's been done so many times just shouts fanboy, especially when you cap it of with, "I'm going to get a PS3 instead".

How about you go buy your PS3 and not bore people to death with crap "I went to best buy and....." stories that have been posted innumerable times already, mmmkay?

colmusterd28

I enjoyed the TC post. RROD is the sore spot that get most 360 fans upset. i.e. your post :lol:

Red ring stories don't get me upset. unoriginal BS stories that i've seen a million times do. And I'm not upset at all, I own a PS3. I've always stated that MS's hardware is crap.

Agreed... It's amazing.... the failure rate of the 360 overall is probably 10% yet the failure rate for cows on Gamespot who don't even own a 360 is around 70%... Microsoft should really do something about this....

Lol...Yeah, I think they try too hard. I would be nice if they were a bit more creative though.
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d3thm0nkey

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#44 d3thm0nkey
Member since 2006 • 615 Posts

I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. JDW_games

Dude the new ones have the 65 nm chip and hdmi as confirmed by Official Xbox Magazine.

So really, if you get a new one not a refurbished one your fine.

I have one with the new chip and it is quieter than my Wii and runs cooler.

I have left it on for 2 days as an experiment.

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colmusterd28

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#45 colmusterd28
Member since 2006 • 2854 Posts
[QUOTE="colmusterd28"][QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="King_of_Sorrow"][QUOTE="heretrix"]

If a 3 year warranty and new hardware won't get you to buy one then whatever..I'm calling BS on the TC though.

Yes, I've seen many 360's red ringed in stores and it is a problem. But to come here and make a thread about it when it's been done so many times just shouts fanboy, especially when you cap it of with, "I'm going to get a PS3 instead".

How about you go buy your PS3 and not bore people to death with crap "I went to best buy and....." stories that have been posted innumerable times already, mmmkay?

heretrix

I enjoyed the TC post. RROD is the sore spot that get most 360 fans upset. i.e. your post :lol:

Red ring stories don't get me upset. unoriginal BS stories that i've seen a million times do. And I'm not upset at all, I own a PS3. I've always stated that MS's hardware is crap.

Agreed... It's amazing.... the failure rate of the 360 overall is probably 10% yet the failure rate for cows on Gamespot who don't even own a 360 is around 70%... Microsoft should really do something about this....

Lol...Yeah, I think they try too hard. I would be nice if they were a bit more creative though.

the thing I can't get past is what are the 30% of cows who don't own a 360 doing to not get the RRoD....?

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nullvision

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#46 nullvision
Member since 2003 • 1988 Posts
[QUOTE="deathtoallgods"]

[QUOTE="JDW_games"]I saw with my own eyes at the local Best Buy last night .... The Ring Of Death as we all call it. I am not pro Nintendo, or Pro Sony. I like games on all systems, but my money is going to the PS3 now after seeing that. I know those in store systems can stay on for hours at a time and over heat, but that was all I needed to see, not to trust buying one. The PS3 and Wii demos were all running fine by the way. OremLK

Your loss IMHO. All the newest systems have the new chipset and you are scared because you saw a 2 year old demo setup get RROD? That thing is on 16 hours a day and it is trapped in a small shield of plastic. Either way, YOUR LOSS.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head. Are you seriously going by what happened to a system in that situation? I'm sure plenty of consoles of all brands and models have failed under similar conditions. You should ask a GameStop manager how many he's seen die on him.

interesting how lemmings didn't feel this way when the ps3 demo units would freeze. Now, with the highest fail rate in history, it's ok if a 360 freezes because it's a demo unit.

Like I said. Interesting.

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thinicer

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#47 thinicer
Member since 2006 • 3704 Posts
Probably was an old unit. You can always ask to have then open up the kiosk so you can look at the manufacturing date.
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Swift_Boss_A

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#48 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts
well done TC you have saved yourself from Damnation :P
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Sgt_Crow

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#49 Sgt_Crow
Member since 2004 • 6099 Posts
Ah well, have fun not playing games.
Also, gz for going with the RROD 'hype'. It's not as bad as those delusional cows make you believe 90% of the time.
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LessThanMarcus

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#50 LessThanMarcus
Member since 2003 • 655 Posts

That's what is preventing me from buying a 360, then I turn to the PS3 and I'm not really interested in it's current game library. Sux.LINKloco

Well you shouldn't have to wait too long. Spring will be here before you know it.