Developer says Xbox 360 more powerful than PS3

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bphan

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#1 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

Jason Booth, a game developer who has worked on both Guitar Hero games and Rock Band, has posted some interesting comments on his blog regarding "PS3 misconceptions and spin."

"I read various game forums from time to time, and often see gamers complaining about 'lazy ports' to the PS3. They often mention how the PS3 is the most powerful game console and blame developers working on the console for doing a bad job. Sony has all of these people duped by impressive marketing spin... ports to the PS3 will never be as good as their 360 counter parts, and ...most PS3 exclusives will likely continue to suck," he says.

First and foremost, Booth doesn't think PS3 really has a graphical advantage. Why? "Fill rate is one of the primary ways to measure graphics performance - in essence, it's a number describing how many pixel operations you can perform. The fill rate on the PS3 is significantly slower than on the 360, meaning that games either have to run at lower resolution or use simpler shader effects to achieve the same performance," he says. "Additionally, the shader processing on the PS3 is significantly slower than on the 360, which means that a normal map takes more fill rate to draw on the PS3 than it does on the 360. And I'm not talking about small differences here, we're talking roughly half the pixel pushing power."

He also suggests that Blu-ray is not really an advantage: "[It's] great for watching movies, but not so great for games. Getting data off the Blu-ray drive takes about twice as long as it does to get the same data off the 360's DVD drive. That translates into longer load times, or god forbid if you're streaming from disk, tighter constraints on the amount of data you can stream."

He acknowledges that with the greater storage space of Blu-ray "there is the potential to use that to do something cool," but he argues that "most developers who use the entire Blu-ray drive are doing it to work around other problems with the PS3 such as its slow loading."

He adds, "For instance, in Resistance: Fall of Man, every art asset is stored on disk once for every level that uses it. So rather than storing one copy of a texture, you're storing it 12 times. If you took that entire game and removed all the duplicate data, it would likely fit on a DVD without any problem."

Ultimately, Booth says "the performance centric research into the PS3 has been around making it easier for developers to get the same level of performance you get out of the 360 naturally... developers must spend significantly more time and resources getting the PS3 to do what the 360 can already do easily and with a lot less code... On top of this, there is shrinking incentive to do this work; the PS3 isn't selling."

Whether these comments can be taken at face value is up to you; Booth adds at the end of his post that his remarks "might come across as a lot of Sony bashing, but it's just the reality from the trenches." It's an interesting perspective nonetheless.

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R3FURBISHED

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#2 R3FURBISHED
Member since 2008 • 12408 Posts

*Reads title* Oh, this could be interesting...

Jason Booth, a game developer who has worked on both Guitar Hero games and Rock Band,

bphan

NOPE!

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bphan

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#4 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

*Reads title* Oh, this could be interesting...

[QUOTE="bphan"]

Jason Booth, a game developer who has worked on both Guitar Hero games and Rock Band,

R3FURBISHED

NOPE!

I'd rather trust a multiplatform developer than a person who only developed on Xbox 360 or PS3. Cuts out the bias in my opinion.

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cxcloud

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#5 cxcloud
Member since 2009 • 147 Posts

Link? I'd like to know when he said it since he's referencing a launch title.

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James161324

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#6 James161324
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

The only thing that is better on the 360 is the GPU. The ps3 cpu pwns the crap out of the 360's. Those aren't imo those are known facts. The 360 cpu is just easier to develop for.

'

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RavenLoud

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#7 RavenLoud
Member since 2009 • 2874 Posts

I remember this, it was really old, like 2007 old. :|

Oh and "worked on Guitar Hero and Rock Band" ZOMG SUPER GRAPHIC DEV.

"PS3 exclusives will most likely continue to suck"

In 2010, he sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about (or else he could have kept his job).

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R3FURBISHED

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#8 R3FURBISHED
Member since 2008 • 12408 Posts

[QUOTE="R3FURBISHED"]

*Reads title* Oh, this could be interesting...

[QUOTE="bphan"]

Jason Booth, a game developer who has worked on both Guitar Hero games and Rock Band,

bphan

NOPE!

I'd rather trust a multiplatform developer than a person who only developed on Xbox 360 or PS3. Cuts out the bias in my opinion.

You misunderstand, I don't care that he is a multi platform developer, I care that he is a developer on the most over milked and redundant video games to ever be made. 6 total games, and the biggest change was a drum set. WOW!

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James161324

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#9 James161324
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

If this was 2008 maybe you could say that. But after 2009 you can't say the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

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adamlovesu

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#10 adamlovesu
Member since 2010 • 829 Posts

well see all the 360 has to offer whne gears 3 is released....... all 3 cores put to the test.

kz2 is a perfect example that graphics arent everything...imo the gameplay feels wrong and i cannot play it for more than 15 mins at a time....

most 360 exclusives have decent graphs and gameplay... which i prefer all day.... uncharted 2 had both as well.... thats 1..... what im seeing with the ps3 is that its either gameplay or graphs... the 360 has both....

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sayonara89

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#11 sayonara89
Member since 2009 • 1985 Posts
Old and not true.
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fastr

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#12 fastr
Member since 2010 • 2100 Posts

*Reads title* Oh, this could be interesting...

[QUOTE="bphan"]

Jason Booth, a game developer who has worked on both Guitar Hero games and Rock Band,

R3FURBISHED

NOPE!

exactly what I thought! I mean i'm a lemming and.. well.. c'mon.. how much power do you need for, blue is on the screen press blue! it's kinda like heavy rain. Graphics? guitar hero guy talking about graphics..? fail.
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sayonara89

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#13 sayonara89
Member since 2009 • 1985 Posts

well see all the 360 has to offer whne gears 3 is released....... all 3 cores put to the test.

kz2 is a perfect example that graphics arent everything...imo the gameplay feels wrong and i cannot play it for more than 15 mins at a time....

most 360 exclusives have decent graphs and gameplay... which i prefer all day.... uncharted 2 had both as well.... thats 1..... what im seeing with the ps3 is that its either gameplay or graphs... the 360 has both....

adamlovesu
Nope.
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bphan

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#14 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

If this was 2008 maybe you could say that. But after 2009 you can't say the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

James161324

90% of multiplatform games looking better on 360 says otherwise. How can you compare graphics on one game Uncharted against another Gears of War 2. Isn't that subjective. There's no control if you wanna do this scientifically. Only way is multiplatform.

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RavenLoud

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#15 RavenLoud
Member since 2009 • 2874 Posts

I'd rather trust a multiplatform developer than a person who only developed on Xbox 360 or PS3. Cuts out the bias in my opinion.

bphan

Your info is from Oct. 2007, a time before Uncharted 1 even came out. (SW was also cow grilling paradise at the time too).

Stop trolling with old stuff, get on with the times.

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RadecSupreme

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#16 RadecSupreme
Member since 2009 • 4824 Posts

PS3 games arent selling? Oh I am not even going to respond.

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bphan

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#17 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

[QUOTE="bphan"]I'd rather trust a multiplatform developer than a person who only developed on Xbox 360 or PS3. Cuts out the bias in my opinion.

RavenLoud

Your info is from Oct. 2007, a time before Uncharted 1 even came out. (SW was also cow grilling paradise at the time too).

Stop trolling with old stuff, get on with the times.

Doesn't matter if it was in 2007. Still holds true today. For example, Rockstar put two separate teams to work on RDR for 360 and PS3. Guess which won?

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Zaibach

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#18 Zaibach
Member since 2007 • 13466 Posts

All evidence to the contrary, nice try grasping for straws though.

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James161324

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#19 James161324
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"]

[QUOTE="bphan"]I'd rather trust a multiplatform developer than a person who only developed on Xbox 360 or PS3. Cuts out the bias in my opinion.

bphan

Your info is from Oct. 2007, a time before Uncharted 1 even came out. (SW was also cow grilling paradise at the time too).

Stop trolling with old stuff, get on with the times.

Doesn't matter if it was in 2007. Still holds true today. For example, Rockstar put two separate teams to work on RDR for 360 and PS3. Guess which won?

thats because the 8 core is to hard to develop for. not because the ps3 has less power than the 360. This is coming from someone who likes the 360 more.

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bphan

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#20 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

I know Cows will come in hear and try to play damage control but I got developers on my side. The ones who actually make the games. And 95% of multiplatform developers agree with me.

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sayonara89

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#21 sayonara89
Member since 2009 • 1985 Posts

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"]

[QUOTE="bphan"]I'd rather trust a multiplatform developer than a person who only developed on Xbox 360 or PS3. Cuts out the bias in my opinion.

bphan

Your info is from Oct. 2007, a time before Uncharted 1 even came out. (SW was also cow grilling paradise at the time too).

Stop trolling with old stuff, get on with the times.

Doesn't matter if it was in 2007. Still holds true today. For example, Rockstar put two separate teams to work on RDR for 360 and PS3. Guess which won?

Read this:

"It's difficult to make any blanket statements about the PS3 and 360 in terms of performance.

However, when it comes to PS3 exclusives, there is a fairly significant difference.
The PS3 architecture lends itself to rendering multiple frames in parallel. The SPUs can certainly help out with rendering, but what few people realise is that this often occurs in parallel with RSX.

For example, while frame X+1 is rendering, the post processing for frame X is occurring on the SPUs. This form of parallelism fundamentally cannot be done on the 360 and is simply not needed. This is clearly very hard to implement when writing a multiplatform engine.

On top of that, the SPUs are often used to do vertex processing for the RSX (Well, you basically have to). This actually takes a huge chunk of total SPU time (I believe it's around 40% for uncharted 2). Combine that with other tasks (shader constant patching, etc) and you have be very very careful in how a rendering architecture is setup to prevent stalls.
Naturally, if you are only working with the PS3 you can tailor to it a lot more."


http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1432040&postcount=538

Graham is game developer.

Simple answer to thread title: NO.

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bphan

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#22 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

[QUOTE="bphan"]

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"]

Your info is from Oct. 2007, a time before Uncharted 1 even came out. (SW was also cow grilling paradise at the time too).

Stop trolling with old stuff, get on with the times.

James161324

Doesn't matter if it was in 2007. Still holds true today. For example, Rockstar put two separate teams to work on RDR for 360 and PS3. Guess which won?

thats because the 8 core is to hard to develop for. not because the ps3 has less power than the 360. This is coming from someone who likes the 360 more.

If it was so much more powerful, why couldn't they at least make it look the same. JUST THE SAME. They couldn't. Didn't have the power.

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RadecSupreme

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#23 RadecSupreme
Member since 2009 • 4824 Posts

I know Cows will come in hear and try to play damage control but I got developers on my side. The ones who actually make the games. And 95% of multiplatform developers agree with me.

bphan

There is no damage controls because no damage has been done.

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Karnage108

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#24 Karnage108
Member since 2010 • 2595 Posts

If this was 2008 maybe you could say that. But after 2009 you can't say the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

James161324

My 360 is more powerful than your 360 :lol:

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James161324

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#25 James161324
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

[QUOTE="James161324"]

[QUOTE="bphan"]

Doesn't matter if it was in 2007. Still holds true today. For example, Rockstar put two separate teams to work on RDR for 360 and PS3. Guess which won?

bphan

thats because the 8 core is to hard to develop for. not because the ps3 has less power than the 360. This is coming from someone who likes the 360 more.

If it was so much more powerful, why couldn't they at least make it look the same. JUST THE SAME. They couldn't. Didn't have the power.

becuase the devs are lazy and just port over the game. so it only uses a few of the 8 cores.

If your talking pratical. The 360 cpu is better

If your talking over power the ps3 cpu is better.

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sayonara89

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#26 sayonara89
Member since 2009 • 1985 Posts

[QUOTE="James161324"]

[QUOTE="bphan"]

Doesn't matter if it was in 2007. Still holds true today. For example, Rockstar put two separate teams to work on RDR for 360 and PS3. Guess which won?

bphan

thats because the 8 core is to hard to develop for. not because the ps3 has less power than the 360. This is coming from someone who likes the 360 more.

If it was so much more powerful, why couldn't they at least make it look the same. JUST THE SAME. They couldn't. Didn't have the power.

LOL. Read this and this:

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bphan

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#27 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

[QUOTE="bphan"]

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"]

Your info is from Oct. 2007, a time before Uncharted 1 even came out. (SW was also cow grilling paradise at the time too).

Stop trolling with old stuff, get on with the times.

sayonara89

Doesn't matter if it was in 2007. Still holds true today. For example, Rockstar put two separate teams to work on RDR for 360 and PS3. Guess which won?

Read this:

"It's difficult to make any blanket statements about the PS3 and 360 in terms of performance.

However, when it comes to PS3 exclusives, there is a fairly significant difference.
The PS3 architecture lends itself to rendering multiple frames in parallel. The SPUs can certainly help out with rendering, but what few people realise is that this often occurs in parallel with RSX.

For example, while frame X+1 is rendering, the post processing for frame X is occurring on the SPUs. This form of parallelism fundamentally cannot be done on the 360 and is simply not needed. This is clearly very hard to implement when writing a multiplatform engine.

On top of that, the SPUs are often used to do vertex processing for the RSX (Well, you basically have to). This actually takes a huge chunk of total SPU time (I believe it's around 40% for uncharted 2). Combine that with other tasks (shader constant patching, etc) and you have be very very careful in how a rendering architecture is setup to prevent stalls.
Naturally, if you are only working with the PS3 you can tailor to it a lot more."


http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1432040&postcount=538

Graham is game developer.

Simple answer to thread title: NO.

Where your control variable? For all we know Uncharted 2 could've looked even better on 360.

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bphan

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#28 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

[QUOTE="bphan"]

[QUOTE="James161324"]

thats because the 8 core is to hard to develop for. not because the ps3 has less power than the 360. This is coming from someone who likes the 360 more.

James161324

If it was so much more powerful, why couldn't they at least make it look the same. JUST THE SAME. They couldn't. Didn't have the power.

becuase the devs are lazy and just port over the game. so it only uses a few of the 8 cores.

The "devs are lazy" argument again. Maybe its because the PS3 just doesn't have the power.

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fastr

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#30 fastr
Member since 2010 • 2100 Posts

I know Cows will come in hear and try to play damage control but I got developers on my side. The ones who actually make the games. And 95% of multiplatform developers agree with me.

bphan
actually it's lemmings coming in to laugh at your source.
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bphan

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#31 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

[QUOTE="bphan"]

[QUOTE="James161324"]

thats because the 8 core is to hard to develop for. not because the ps3 has less power than the 360. This is coming from someone who likes the 360 more.

James161324

If it was so much more powerful, why couldn't they at least make it look the same. JUST THE SAME. They couldn't. Didn't have the power.

becuase the devs are lazy and just port over the game. so it only uses a few of the 8 cores.

If your talking pratical. The 360 cpu is better

If your talking over power the ps3 cpu is better.

Numbers on paper don't matter. GPUs, CPUs, Ram, etc, etc. I need actually products to compare. I am going by multiplatform games here

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Parasomniac

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#32 Parasomniac
Member since 2007 • 2723 Posts
I can't believe a developer is such a fanboy. "PS3 exclusives will continue to suck"?
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James161324

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#33 James161324
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

Explain to me how an 8 core 3.2 ghz cpu

is worse than tri core cpu at 3.2 ghz.

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sayonara89

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#34 sayonara89
Member since 2009 • 1985 Posts
I can't believe a developer is such a fanboy. "PS3 exclusives will continue to suck"?Parasomniac
Gabe Newell? :lol:
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#35 bphan
Member since 2005 • 1666 Posts

I can't believe a developer is such a fanboy. "PS3 exclusives will continue to suck"?Parasomniac

I think becuase during that time, there were really no good PS3 games at launch. But now its a different story.

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sayonara89

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#36 sayonara89
Member since 2009 • 1985 Posts

Explain to me how an 8 core 3.2 ghz cpu

is worse than tri core cpu at 3.2 ghz.

James161324
He obviously don't know anything about that, he just found some old stuff and posted it here.
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#37 dachase
Member since 2005 • 808 Posts

I was already going to stop reading when it mentioned Guitar hero and Rock Band but this made me stop

most PS3 exclusives will likely continue to suck," he says.

No just no

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#38 James161324
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

[QUOTE="James161324"]

Explain to me how an 8 core 3.2 ghz cpu

is worse than tri core cpu at 3.2 ghz.

sayonara89

He obviously don't know anything about that, he just found some old stuff and posted it here.

Yep. thats the thing about system wars. most fanboys have no clue about what hardware is actually in the system.

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#39 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

If this was 2008 maybe you could say that. But after 2009 you can't say the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

James161324

I lol'd.

Don't you mean You can't say the 360 is more powerful than the PS3?

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BPoole96

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#40 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

I'm sure a Guitar Hero/Rock Band developer would know best about which console is more powerful based on how realistic those 2 series look

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walkingdream

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#41 walkingdream
Member since 2009 • 4883 Posts
Both systems are very similar in power, anybody who says otherwise has no clue. There Might be a little bit of a gap, but it's nowhere near the gap say of Xbox vs PS2.
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LegatoSkyheart

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#42 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

Jason Booth, "...most PS3 exclusives will likely continue to suck," he says.

bphan

And then Uncharted 2 happened.

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sayonara89

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#43 sayonara89
Member since 2009 • 1985 Posts

[QUOTE="bphan"]

Jason Booth, "...most PS3 exclusives will likely continue to suck," he says.

LegatoSkyheart

And then Uncharted 2 happened.

It was 2007, so Uncharted DF, then MGS4 and so on :)
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205212669269561485377169522720

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#44 205212669269561485377169522720
Member since 2005 • 14458 Posts

... Isn't this really old..?:?

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funsohng

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#45 funsohng
Member since 2005 • 29976 Posts
i dont remember Rockband or Guitar Hero being graphically spectacular...
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#46 davidkamayor
Member since 2008 • 1642 Posts

Look I'm going by what Crytek and all the real developers say. The 360's GPU, and its memory is far superior, but the superiority is exaggerated by things such as "how fast can they make triangles" which those tests don't take into account the full power of the GPU. But since PS3s GPU is still significantly weaker the SPU assistance is needed which to change nearly everything under the hood for the game too put it on the platform that will likely sell less (I know the sales are close, but Multiplats always sell better on the 360) and to learn this completely foreign hardware is not worth the effort or the cash return. But I believe 360 multiplats will eventually become even with the PS3. And that will be the day that it outsells the 360 which I believe is inevitable because when the economy picks up people will pick the system up for blu-ray adoption

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#47 alexfla
Member since 2010 • 393 Posts

If this was 2008 maybe you could say that. But after 2009 you can't say the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

James161324




I don't think you can ever say that the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

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noodlevixen

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#48 noodlevixen
Member since 2010 • 480 Posts

[QUOTE="James161324"]

If this was 2008 maybe you could say that. But after 2009 you can't say the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

alexfla




I don't think you can ever say that the 360 is more powerful than the 360.

lulz x 2:lol:

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mike_on_mic

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#49 mike_on_mic
Member since 2004 • 886 Posts
The PPE of the PS3 is very similar to the CPU of the XBOX360. Therefore, develop the game on the XBOX360 (dev tools are hands down beter than for the PS3). Dev, Debug, Test. Then port the code over to the PS3. Get the Code running on the PPE (requires very little work). If it works and there aren't too many problems, they will then deal with the performance, pulling back detail or draw distance similar to the way a user might manually do this on a PC version of the game. The multi-platform differences are the problems with the developers, the publishers and their deadlines for the release of the game. RDR people saying that the 360 version looks better than the PS3 and they still had two teams working on each version. No one really knows when each team starts, did they write 2 different code bases for each version, I highly doubt it, since it isn't the best use of development resources, code reuse would be big on their list of things to do, and considering the money they are spending it would also mean they are cutting costs. Two teams, it could have been purely time, we need this released by this date and time, lets throw more people at it. Simple business practice from my position on where I work. I feel that when the PS3 is being used properly and to its fullest extent we have seen time after time that the PS3 is more powerful than the 360 (overall). I am not sold on what console could play what game or if it is capable of it. Uncharted 2, showed to me what you can get out the PS3, they used all SPEs and PPE to the fullest (though they admitted not fully optimised, and as time goes one, developers will better understand how to optimise the code to run on the platforms). They streamed textures off the blu-ray, which is something interesting my mind. Saying that Resistance used mulitple copies of the same texture for the different levels, they might have found that this was the quickest way of loading them, and when you have 25GB you can do that. There are no rules to state how you should develop a product, the path you take how you should do performance testing or that you need to make the games identical when doing multi-platforms. He is a developer and this is his opinion we all know that the PS3 is slower in the GPU department, yet has he bought anything new to the table, provided low level architecture diagrams that back up his statement. He has also developed games, Rock band and guitar hero games, last time I looked they weren't pushing the envelope in terms of graphics and therefore when they do a straight port over to the PS3 and get it running it might be slower, from their perspective. I read this posts and laugh the whole time :) I am sure many of you might think I am a PS3 fanboy, and I won't say I am or not, just because I happen to own a 360 as well. Truth of the matter of like both of them equally as there are games on each I love to play. But, I feel that I will do my best to enlighten those who fail to understand. I hope I can help.
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dercoo

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#50 dercoo
Member since 2006 • 12555 Posts

Who is the topic poster going to reference next,Gabe Newell.:roll: