Developers dont Like PS3. This MATTERS

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

That is why the N64 failed.rimnet00

N64 failed because it used cartridges and thanks to that the games costed 80$. That's why it failed.

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

azad_champ

[QUOTE="azad_champ"]

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

blue_hazy_basic

Then too bad for Sony. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter how the hardware looks of a console. If it has a big userbase, devs will be making games for it without complaining.

Well said, TC!

Also, 3rd party devs love the sales on the x360. Capcom sure does.

[QUOTE="azad_champ"]

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

blue_hazy_basic

Its a playstation, with many quality exclusive system selling games.

And in time with more price drops, it should really start picking up. But if it doesnt, for w/e that I dont know of, the PS3 is screwed, and will lose exclusives (i.e MGS4... maybe)

It just needs time

Every new system and architecture is initially hard to program for. Programing for dual and quad core processors is harder than a single core, but do you think that developers are going to just make programs for single core processors? Not a chance, as the industry is moving forward, and the technology gets harder.

If a developer is just looking to make easy software and sell to the largest base, they will make a Nintendo DS game.

Every new system/language has a learning curve. You learn it, refine it, and master it. Nothing really new.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="azad_champ"]

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

therealmcc0y

Its a playstation, with many quality exclusive system selling games.

And in time with more price drops, it should really start picking up. But if it doesnt, for w/e that I dont know of, the PS3 is screwed, and will lose exclusives (i.e MGS4... maybe)

It just needs time

replace ps3 with n64, playstation with nintendo and we've heard it all before.

[QUOTE="therealmcc0y"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="azad_champ"]

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

Ontain

Its a playstation, with many quality exclusive system selling games.

And in time with more price drops, it should really start picking up. But if it doesnt, for w/e that I dont know of, the PS3 is screwed, and will lose exclusives (i.e MGS4... maybe)

It just needs time

replace ps3 with n64, playstation with nintendo and we've heard it all before.

Every new system and architecture is initially hard to program for. Programing for dual and quad core processors is harder than a single core, but do you think that developers are going to just make programs for single core processors? Not a chance, as the industry is moving forward, and the technology gets harder.

If a developer is just looking to make easy software and sell to the largest base, they will make a Nintendo DS game.

Every new system/language has a learning curve. You learn it, refine it, and master it. Nothing really new.

SpruceCaboose

Every new system and architecture is initially hard to program for. Programing for dual and quad core processors is harder than a single core, but do you think that developers are going to just make programs for single core processors? Not a chance, as the industry is moving forward, and the technology gets harder.

If a developer is just looking to make easy software and sell to the largest base, they will make a Nintendo DS game.

Every new system/language has a learning curve. You learn it, refine it, and master it. Nothing really new.

SpruceCaboose

This is true, but if you've ever done any development on a Microsoft platform before (Including CE) you'll notice that it's easy as pie to move from one platform to another. Plus all you really have to worry about when developing for a multi-core processor under a Microsoft framework is threading, the low level device control is all handled by the framework itself (In my experience, bare in mind I've only used multi-threading for netcode (Sockets)).

Every new system and architecture is initially hard to program for. Programing for dual and quad core processors is harder than a single core, but do you think that developers are going to just make programs for single core processors? Not a chance, as the industry is moving forward, and the technology gets harder.

If a developer is just looking to make easy software and sell to the largest base, they will make a Nintendo DS game.

Every new system/language has a learning curve. You learn it, refine it, and master it. Nothing really new.

SpruceCaboose

There is a difference between multi-cpu architecture and distributed cpu architectures. The latter is barely touched in educational institutes. Especially when you consider that multi-cpu architectures is a forward step from multithreaded programs. Distributed cpu architectures are a side step, then a forward step.

Also, single core cpu's aren't going to die anytime soon. They will continue to be used in many applications, since not everything needs to be a cpu hog. The fact of the matter is, the cell processor is unique and is used by a extremely small subset of applications - mainly just the PS3. Where as multi-cpu processors are used outside of just gaming.

[QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

Every new system and architecture is initially hard to program for. Programing for dual and quad core processors is harder than a single core, but do you think that developers are going to just make programs for single core processors? Not a chance, as the industry is moving forward, and the technology gets harder.

If a developer is just looking to make easy software and sell to the largest base, they will make a Nintendo DS game.

Every new system/language has a learning curve. You learn it, refine it, and master it. Nothing really new.

blue_hazy_basic

The 360 is very close to programming for a Windows PC, which is something any developer should be familiar with, making development on it rather simple to do, as the learning curve is almost non-existent.

Microsoft knew this going in, and as a company is good at helping developers craft code, so they made the 360 very developer friendly, whereas Sony has always struggled to make its platforms easier to develop for, often times failing.

People are saying "teh powah of playstation" is hard to unlock, that developers are lazy etc. Even assuming that the PS3 was an amazing piece of kit (debatable), that fact that it's so hard to develop for matters. Dudes is all about MONEY. Lets say it takes 3 more months to devlop and two extra full time programers to unlock "teh powah". As a commerical enterprise I'm going to be pretty p*ssed off about this. Time=Money. NOw combine this with the fact that PS3 has an install base thats less than half that of either wii and 360. This means I have to WORK HARDER to sell LESS! On the other hand I can work Less and Sell MORE if I focus my development on 360! Moreover, with its development tools MS has made it easier to port between PC and 360 via DirectX. Is it any wonder PS3 is losing its exclusives, and developers start to focus their development on platforms that MAKE MONEY. All talk about "teh powah" etc is such complete naive BS, it does not matter how friggin good PS3 is, since they got the marketing mix (Price, Place, Product, Promotion), pretty much all screwed up, and make it EXPENSIVE and SLOW to develop for.hywel69

Are you kidding...

All Sony systems have been harder to program for then the 360. Devs dont dislike the PS3, they just have to work a little harder compared to the 360. Not a big deal seeing as they have stated that the PS3 is easier to dev for then the PS2 and we all know how little support the PS2 got..right?

As for games taking longer to come out, that is because they are unfamiliar with they system. I remember the 360s first year where it shared many multiplats with the PS2 and in many cases the PS2 version came out first and got a higher score then the 360 version. But that changed after time with the system.

And as for the PS3 losing exclusives this happens EVERY GEN. Remember last gen when we got the PS2, Sony lost Spyro, Crash, RE (exclusively to GC for a time), MGS 2( but they came back), and one of its biggest hits Tomb Raider. This happens all the time and then what happens is Sony brings in new games to its system and it creates a new top 10. Do you think DMC, AC, and VF really hurt Sony. Heck VF wasnt even supposed to be at home on a Sony system, the PS2 just killed its parent the Dreamcast.

The PS3 will be fine because it appealse to more then just NA.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="SpruceCaboose"]

Every new system and architecture is initially hard to program for. Programing for dual and quad core processors is harder than a single core, but do you think that developers are going to just make programs for single core processors? Not a chance, as the industry is moving forward, and the technology gets harder.

If a developer is just looking to make easy software and sell to the largest base, they will make a Nintendo DS game.

Every new system/language has a learning curve. You learn it, refine it, and master it. Nothing really new.

SpruceCaboose

The 360 is very close to programming for a Windows PC, which is something any developer should be familiar with, making development on it rather simple to do, as the learning curve is almost non-existent.

Microsoft knew this going in, and as a company is good at helping developers craft code, so they made the 360 very developer friendly, whereas Sony has always struggled to make its platforms easier to develop for, often times failing.

Well Devs don't actually "hate" the PS3 they just believe it's to hard to program for and needs tiem if you read any interview besides the ones with Gabe Newell, you'll see that they want to overcome the difficulties on the PS3 and start using it, but as fo now most games will ship using xbox 360 as the lead platform as it's easier and more marketable.Solid_Max13

No I agree with what Gabe said.. Sony should just recall the damn thing and ask for a "Do Over".

[QUOTE="azad_champ"]

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

blue_hazy_basic

Then it will always be 5-6 million units behind the 360. We just came from a gen. when the PS2 had a lead of 80 MILLION. I know it may sound like the 360 has such a larger user base when you say 6 million vs. 12 million but then what happens after a year and a half it the numbers are 20 million vs. 26 million. The 360s userbase is not even close to a size to justify it getting top exclusives or priority.

Thats not even mentioning the fact that outside of NA in places like Japan where they bought 20 million PS2, the 360 has no fanbase and 3rd party devs NEED their games on the PS3 to make money.

[QUOTE="Solid_Max13"]Well Devs don't actually "hate" the PS3 they just believe it's to hard to program for and needs tiem if you read any interview besides the ones with Gabe Newell, you'll see that they want to overcome the difficulties on the PS3 and start using it, but as fo now most games will ship using xbox 360 as the lead platform as it's easier and more marketable.NitaraPwnzU

No I agree with what Gabe said.. Sony should just recall the damn thing and ask for a "Do Over".

Gabe also disliked the PS2. Basically he just doesnt like hardware that is different then what he is used to using which is PCs.

[QUOTE="Solid_Max13"]Well Devs don't actually "hate" the PS3 they just believe it's to hard to program for and needs tiem if you read any interview besides the ones with Gabe Newell, you'll see that they want to overcome the difficulties on the PS3 and start using it, but as fo now most games will ship using xbox 360 as the lead platform as it's easier and more marketable.NitaraPwnzU

No I agree with what Gabe said.. Sony should just recall the damn thing and ask for a "Do Over".

I will give you the benifit of the doubt and take that as a joke. Ha ha ha... it wasn't a joke, was it...

If we go back to the begining of the PS2 we can see that developers were saying the same thing about the DVD in the first year or so.

Now what will happen when these developers get the codeing and hardware down on the PS3 what will happen.

When I got my PS3 I fully understood that it's going to be a year or so before the top games will be out (although there have been some great games released before I thought they would be).

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

azad_champ

If the numbers were available, I bet you they woul show that more PS2 owners have selected the 360 over the PS3 (price, games, released first).

Not everybody is a fanboy, you know. Most Sony fanboys have purchased their PS3s by now (Sony was right, they bought the console without games). That userbase of yours purchased PS2s because the console was cheap and it had a ton of games to play.

This gen:

Cheap = Wii or Xbox360

Best library = Xbox360

Best reputation (buzz) = Wii or Xbox360 (I'm not talking about reliability)

AAAs = Xbox360

Gaming features = Wii (controller) Xbox360 (XBL)

that is true but fanboys will fail to see thatmingo123

Everyone knows it's true...even the cows. Just because it's true though, doesn't mean cows have to LIKE it. They have a console that devs are taking a lazy approach towards developing for. Sure, it IS all about time and money. But should the PS3 suddenly take off thanks to the $399 model, then those devs are going to come crawling back, they will learn the hardware, then eventually admit it wasn't that bad once they gave it a chance...just like what happened with the PS2 (but without devs actually leaving. with the PS2 they just complained a lot.)

But something you said makes it not matter: MONEY.

You don't have to like something if it's providing you an opportunity to make cash. Developers didn't like the PS2, but they sucked that **** up and made it happen.

Now with that being understood...we also know that very VERY few companies have made any money off of the PS3 titles they've developed so far. Insomniac, Evolution Studios, and...well...that's probably about it. Maybe one other dev.

As such, the PS3 needs to start making companies MONEY, or they really will bail. Companies can only absorb losses for so long before they do what they have to do to feed their employees families and survive.

People are saying "teh powah of playstation" is hard to unlock, that developers are lazy etc. Even assuming that the PS3 was an amazing piece of kit (debatable), that fact that it's so hard to develop for matters. Dudes is all about MONEY. Lets say it takes 3 more months to devlop and two extra full time programers to unlock "teh powah". As a commerical enterprise I'm going to be pretty p*ssed off about this. Time=Money. NOw combine this with the fact that PS3 has an install base thats less than half that of either wii and 360. This means I have to WORK HARDER to sell LESS! On the other hand I can work Less and Sell MORE if I focus my development on 360! Moreover, with its development tools MS has made it easier to port between PC and 360 via DirectX. Is it any wonder PS3 is losing its exclusives, and developers start to focus their development on platforms that MAKE MONEY. All talk about "teh powah" etc is such complete naive BS, it does not matter how friggin good PS3 is, since they got the marketing mix (Price, Place, Product, Promotion), pretty much all screwed up, and make it EXPENSIVE and SLOW to develop for.hywel69

some good points OP- its only when loads of money gets thrown at a PS3 game then ull see the best products- but even then they flopCwlHeddwyn

lol...so true

[QUOTE="therealmcc0y"][QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="azad_champ"]

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

Ontain

Its a playstation, with many quality exclusive system selling games.

And in time with more price drops, it should really start picking up. But if it doesnt, for w/e that I dont know of, the PS3 is screwed, and will lose exclusives (i.e MGS4... maybe)

It just needs time

replace ps3 with n64, playstation with nintendo and we've heard it all before.

Why not replace PS3 with PSX? They're the same brand and still carries the same franchises.

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="azad_champ"]

It doesn't matter if devs like the PS3 or not. If it gets the userbase of PS2 they'll be working on it like there be no tommorow. Userbase talks, not difficulty.

Javy03

Then it will always be 5-6 million units behind the 360. We just came from a gen. when the PS2 had a lead of 80 MILLION. I know it may sound like the 360 has such a larger user base when you say 6 million vs. 12 million but then what happens after a year and a half it the numbers are 20 million vs. 26 million. The 360s userbase is not even close to a size to justify it getting top exclusives or priority.

Thats not even mentioning the fact that outside of NA in places like Japan where they bought 20 million PS2, the 360 has no fanbase and 3rd party devs NEED their games on the PS3 to make money.

Nobody like the PS3

Developers don't like it

Consumers don't like it (pitiful sales)

Even the PS3's own mother doesn't like it

People are saying "teh powah of playstation" is hard to unlock, that developers are lazy etc. Even assuming that the PS3 was an amazing piece of kit (debatable), that fact that it's so hard to develop for matters. Dudes is all about MONEY. Lets say it takes 3 more months to devlop and two extra full time programers to unlock "teh powah". As a commerical enterprise I'm going to be pretty p*ssed off about this. Time=Money. NOw combine this with the fact that PS3 has an install base thats less than half that of either wii and 360. This means I have to WORK HARDER to sell LESS! On the other hand I can work Less and Sell MORE if I focus my development on 360! Moreover, with its development tools MS has made it easier to port between PC and 360 via DirectX. Is it any wonder PS3 is losing its exclusives, and developers start to focus their development on platforms that MAKE MONEY. All talk about "teh powah" etc is such complete naive BS, it does not matter how friggin good PS3 is, since they got the marketing mix (Price, Place, Product, Promotion), pretty much all screwed up, and make it EXPENSIVE and SLOW to develop for.hywel69

Yeah I agree... I like my PS3, but I'm not thinking it's going to do so well in the end.

It's really intersting comparing Sony's current philosophy of BE THE MOST POWERFUL! with their older (more successful) strategy of courting 3rd party developers while offering what used to be the weakest console tech on the market. What happened? Total 180 on their part. Why change their winning PS2strategy? Having the best tech didn't make Microsoft nearly as successful last gen.

No one's mentioning that the sale numbers for the 360 has slowed down.

The last time I checked the numbers, PS3 has out sold the 360 this year so far by about 1 million.

So, the PS3 can sell at pretty much the same rate, while the 360 slows, and will eventually catch and pass the 360.

I don't think there is anyone here who will deny that the PS3 poses more of a challenge to develop for, because it is hardware that is generally unknown.

However, i have noticed that you don't hear thisstuff from people using the PS3 as the lead platform. Im beginnning to get the feeling that half of the problem is also that a lot of developers expect all the architecture to be the same as the 360, and then just get annoyed and cry about it when they realise they might have to do something besides just change the controller layout.

Seriously, just look at midway and epic. Sure, they had problems, but instead of complaining and crying about it, they worked on it and got the unreal engine working. I didn't hear any whining from Naughty Dog either, or Konami, they would rather spend their time working on it and getting it ready so they can do whatever they want in the future.

Bottom line, these guys complaining about the hardware are setting a bad precedent for the future. they are paid to make the games and get it right, not whine and make excuses for why they didn't do the port the way it should have been done.

No one's mentioning that the sale numbers for the 360 has slowed down.

The last time I checked the numbers, PS3 has out sold the 360 this year so far by about 1 million.

So, the PS3 can sell at pretty much the same rate, while the 360 slows, and will eventually catch and pass the 360.

knufsed

A)How do we move to next gen? Start over. From the beganing.

B)NO DONT DO THAT! Why don't the companies just decide to stay on their first game machines?

A)Because they want to grow?

B)To save money of course!

A)Oh how silly of me. duh. I would rather save than spend to make more.:oops:

PS3 is notably tough to develop for and doesn't translate well. It has a tough time keeping exclusives because the opportunities on other consoles are better.

The 360 is pretty easy to develop for and even to port over to the PC. This is great for developers because they can sell more, but brings about a bit of cannibilization for Microsoft. It also pretty much guarantees that the system sellers that get released on 360 will eventually get ported to PC. Essentially diluting their system sellers and their exclusives.

The Wii's only development challenge in the controller and the kinks are rapidly being worked out. It has a huge install rate growth and a solid attach rate. It's unique contoller makes it tough if not impossible to port to any other console. It has a reasonable amount of porting opportunity with the PC, but, up to this point, it has benefitted more from PC games porting to the Wii (which is pretty much unheard of in previous generations).

PS3 will continue to pick up steam, but won't be able to get enough to pull up the ranks. The 360 has had good momentum, but competition is changing the landscape rapidly and needs to find the next big push. The Wii is in the lead, is innovative enough to differentiate itself, is very cost effective to develop for, and tough to port from. The Wii is designed to attract exclusives and garner 3rd party support. It will finish on top this gen by a sizable lead and continue next gen with it's huge brand equity and growing amount of new consumers.