Devs hate ps3

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BlackTragedy

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#1 BlackTragedy
Member since 2009 • 1830 Posts

Neversoft - Console developers looking to push the hardware are facing an evolution in how they think about the processes that go on in games - from fairly monolithic, linear sets of operations to a much more parallelized, piecemeal approach. The cell pushes developers to take the subdivision of these processes one step further, the nature of the SPE's really drives you to break your systems down into relatively tiny subsystems which can operate on small, carefully delineated chunks of data. Developers have reached a point where they they are familiar with the PS3 RSX and PPE that improvements will be incremental. We think the SPEs remain an underutilized resource; this is where the major increases in performance and abilities will come, particularly as more work is done on how to effectively utilize the SPE's in tandem with the RSX for greater graphical processing power.

Ubisoft Montreal - The PS3 has a lot of unused power although it demands a special kind of work to express that power. On our first glance at the CELL architecture we weren't sure what we could do with the SPUs. But after a few years of messing with them, the SPUs turn out to be really capable beasts. They can churn out a lot of computations, they're a perfect compliment to the RSX, and if you program especially for them, they can surpass everything available in the current gen. They're also flexible enough to do a broad range of work and Sony's new tools makes it so they can be used for increasingly complex tasks. The program model used for SPUs is also the most future proof, so we'll get to see it more and more. This programming model gives us the expectation in the progression of quality games helped on the storage side by the capacity of Blu-Ray discs and the non-optional hard drive.

Backbone Entertainment - The PS3 is quite a fun system to work on. We've been really lucky in getting to work on a wide variety of projects on the platform, and have had great results. It's actually our favorite platform to show tech and game demos on; because it has the reputation of being the big bad ass machine. If you can show a demo running on the PS3, people are generally pretty impressed. We've actually used a PS3 build to prototype out a demo for a Wii game, which might be unique! There's a ton of power in the system for whatever you need, whether it's graphics, physics, etc. We're struggling to come up with game types that we couldn't do on the PS3 and really can't think of any. From the development side, we're excited about the future in features like remote play with PSP, and all the connectivity the system offers.

Nihilistic Software
- It's cliche, but it's a very "deep" machine. Which means the deeper you dig, the more you can do with it. Even working on our third title for the PS3 we're able to make frequent improvements in performance and visual quality because there's so many ways to do things. It really rewards experimentation and trying new things out. Not everything works out and we've thrown away a lot of code over the years on failed experiments, but I think we're a "long way" from maxing out the hardware.

Quantic Dream
- The graphics power is what we relied upon most and it is certainly delivering very impressively on that. The PS3 may deliver strongest in the future on it's online capabilities. I am not thinking only MMOs, but also community based experiences and most importantly online services.

Vicious Cycle Software
- Developing on the PS3 can be complicated due to subtleties of the hardware. If you don't use the hardware to it's best advantage, it makes it hard to compete against other developers who are able to take full advantage of the system. Over the next three years we sould see the development community really starting to tap into the power of the PS3 hardware. There is still a lot of potential on the system and I believe we will see better games over it's life cycle compared to the other platforms on the market. More graphics, physics and rendering will get moved to the SPUs moving forward which will allow larger worlds, more simulation, more dynamic objects and better visuals overall. It is a very exciting time in the games industry and we look forward to bringing high quality titles to the PS3.

EA Visceral
- We love developing on the PS3 - it's usually our lead SKU. The graphical capabilities are amazing as you can see with Dead Space and Dante's Inferno. We have a very close relationship with Sony and working with them has been a pleasurable partnership. We love the fact that the Blu-Ray disc can hold so much data. There's no doubt thats a huge attraction for us as a developer We're still learning new ways to squeeze even more out of the PS3.

Gearbox Studios - The PS3 is a sexy, powerful machine. Look at a few points: graphics, performance and market relevance. I think it's pretty clear at this point that in the long game, the PS3 can have the edge in graphics and performance depending on how specialized the software can be with the SPUs. It's harnessing the power that is a challenge for most developers and requires a substantial investment for us to do so. As far as other features, I think the free online service is a compelling option for customers and developers. What we love most about the PS3 is the Blu-Ray disc and it's tremendous storage advantage over DVD. WHile there is some risks with seek times developers must be careful about, the storage capability is a dream come true for the kinds of games we create that feature lots of high fidelity music, voice over, and huge amounts of graphics content. This PS3 advantage can not be overstated.

Bethesda - It's an interesting architecture, and it really hasn't been until the last year that developers have cracked it and really gotten how to use so many small processors each with their own memory. It takes a different type of thinking to maximize what it can do, but you're starting to see it now from simple things like running animation on an SPU, to more exotic things like line-of-sight rendering in Killzone 2. It's not to hard to draw a quality line from the first PS3 games to the latest, and guess where it's going to be by the end of this year, and then 2010.

Guerilla Games
- We've found the PS3 is easier to develop for than it's competitors, provided one approached it with the right mindset. The cell based architecture allows programmers to offload all of their calculations task to the SPUs. On other platforms, general purpose cores must handle a variety of tasks and calculations- which then quickly become a nightmare to synch. In that regard we believe the PS3's reputation for being hard to develop for is largely undeserved.

Insomniac - We've learned a lot about taking better advantage of the SPUs, and redesigning our systems and gameplay to be more asynchronous. The PS3 is a computational powerhouse; if you want to build something that is based on calculating a lot of physics, objects and collision detection, you can't do better. The water physics in resistance 2 are something made possible by the cell and SPUs. Going forward, there is a lot of room to use the SPUs, and we'll see a lot of people find ways to use the SPUs that aren't related to graphics.

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___gamemaster__

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#2 ___gamemaster__
Member since 2009 • 3422 Posts

*Looking for Valve*

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clone01

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#4 clone01
Member since 2003 • 29843 Posts

this would be a great blog.

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Punjabiking101

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#6 Punjabiking101
Member since 2008 • 1577 Posts

Why don't we ask the developers, shall we?:roll:

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locopatho

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#7 locopatho
Member since 2003 • 24300 Posts
Lot's of sarcasm detecters are broken lol. Anyway, PS3 is indeed capable of great things, but it has taken years to see any significant difference compared to 360. In the next year or two it's make or break time for all that Cell and Blu Ray hype.
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oajlu

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#8 oajlu
Member since 2006 • 2652 Posts

it's bs. they said the samething on all platforms.

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-Anton-

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#9 -Anton-
Member since 2007 • 92 Posts

*Looking for Valve*

___gamemaster__
Because Valve = God.
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Merex760

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#10 Merex760
Member since 2008 • 4381 Posts

Lots of people in this thread who apparently don't know how to read atleast one paragraph. Well played, OP.

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Midnightshade29

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#11 Midnightshade29
Member since 2008 • 6003 Posts
Great Find TC!!! These are all good devs too! And its nice to see Dante's Inferno Getting to use more of the blueray like all devs should be doing. PS3 has the space-- all 3rd party ps3 games should include extras, videos, walthroughs, deleted levels, commentary etc..like you see on movies... the space is there and it would push sales. MS may not like it but devs will when more copies are sold.
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Shewgenja

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#12 Shewgenja
Member since 2009 • 21456 Posts

I lol'd.. Great thread!

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RadecSupreme

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#13 RadecSupreme
Member since 2009 • 4824 Posts

lol Yes they do.:P

This thread and the sales thread are total ownage.

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OneLazyAsian

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#14 OneLazyAsian
Member since 2009 • 1715 Posts

*Looks at topic title*

*Looks at TC's name*

*Prepares to bash TC*

*Reads threads*

*Rubs eyes*

*Reread thread*

:? Crap you got me. Dam you're good.

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KHAndAnime

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#15 KHAndAnime
Member since 2009 • 17565 Posts

this would be a great blog.

clone01
:roll: If someone doesn't like a post, apparently it's fit for blogs.
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EndorphinMaster

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#16 EndorphinMaster
Member since 2009 • 2118 Posts

Nice blog entry. Too bad SW isn't your private blog.

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Regisland

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#17 Regisland
Member since 2009 • 2390 Posts

*Looks at topic title*

*Looks at TC's name*

*Prepares to bash TC*

*Reads threads*

*Rubs eyes*

*Reread thread*

:? Crap you got me. Dam you're good.

i loled.....happened the same to me

OneLazyAsian

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clone01

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#18 clone01
Member since 2003 • 29843 Posts
[QUOTE="KHAndAnime"][QUOTE="clone01"]

this would be a great blog.

:roll: If someone doesn't like a post, apparently it's fit for blogs.

has nothing to do with that, but i really think it fits only indirectly into system wars material.
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AgentA-Mi6

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#19 AgentA-Mi6
Member since 2006 • 16736 Posts

*Looking for Valve*

___gamemaster__
and Im not looking for First Person shooters right now...
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Twin-Blade

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#20 Twin-Blade
Member since 2005 • 6806 Posts

I enjoyed the read, & I'm glad it's here & not on your blog page, where it would never have been seen. I'm no game developer, but I get the feeling the PS3 is going to be one of the most wasted bits of technology because of its complexity to develop for. I hope that in the near future we get some games that really push the PS3 to its limits, otherwise it's going to be a case of what could have been. That's not to say it hasn't held its own so far.

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ActicEdge

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#21 ActicEdge
Member since 2008 • 24492 Posts

Its amazing how you can tell what a post will be about just by the poster. Anyway, it tooks some years but ps3 games don't run like ass anymore and don't draw as many whiney devs. Good stuff.

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rp108

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#22 rp108
Member since 2008 • 1743 Posts

I thought this was going to be a list of the miserable software sales on the PS3.

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TintedEyes

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#23 TintedEyes
Member since 2009 • 4769 Posts
What I hate is just because people like Valve speak out and bash the PS3 most people get the impression that devs hate the PS3 when actually they like it a lot.
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Heartagram_03

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#24 Heartagram_03
Member since 2005 • 3697 Posts

Interesting find but may I ask for a link for all these comments.

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djsifer01

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#25 djsifer01
Member since 2005 • 7238 Posts
Great post TC, its only going to get better over the next few years for the PS3. For those of you saying blog it, this is perfect SW material. Basically what the dervs are saying is the PS3 is the most powerful console on the market and has the most potential.
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stereointegrity

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#26 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts
hahaha now remember all the devs in 06 that said they hated it.....valve can eat it for all i care
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ArcticWolf77

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#27 ArcticWolf77
Member since 2005 • 332 Posts


Guerilla Games
- We've found the PS3 is easier to develop for than it's competitors, provided one approached it with the right mindset. The cell based architecture allows programmers to offload all of their calculations task to the SPUs. On other platforms, general purpose cores must handle a variety of tasks and calculations- which then quickly become a nightmare to synch. In that regard we believe the PS3's reputation for being hard to develop for is largely undeserved.


BlackTragedy

So what other competitors has Guerilla games developed for?

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i_am_interested

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#28 i_am_interested
Member since 2009 • 1077 Posts

"So what other competitors has Guerilla games developed for?"

none

but technically speaking they dont have to, the context of that quote is for processors and the xenon is based on the ppc which exists in the cell, 3.2ghz, 2 threads, pretty much the same thing, they know what the ppc is and they work with it on the Cell

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Shinobi120

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#29 Shinobi120
Member since 2004 • 5728 Posts

It won't make a difference if PS3 is more "powerful" than the 360; I'm not going to hop onto the PS3 immediately just to play "superior versions" of games. That's what I have the PC for.;)

Besides, the PC is the real king of graphics, anyway.

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savetehhaloz

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#30 savetehhaloz
Member since 2007 • 2373 Posts
Its taken the PS3 ages to show its stuff. Unfortunately, its taken them too long to show it. What is Next gen, is current gen.
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savetehhaloz

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#31 savetehhaloz
Member since 2007 • 2373 Posts

I enjoyed the read, & I'm glad it's here & not on your blog page, where it would never have been seen. I'm no game developer, but I get the feeling the PS3 is going to be one of the most wasted bits of technology because of its complexity to develop for. I hope that in the near future we get some games that really push the PS3 to its limits, otherwise it's going to be a case of what could have been. That's not to say it hasn't held its own so far.

Twin-Blade
As a coder, I agree with what you say. Simplicity and the timeframes play a part, most developers don't have a chance to tap the PS3s true powers. In my opinion, Sony should have done it differently.
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i_am_interested

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#32 i_am_interested
Member since 2009 • 1077 Posts

[QUOTE="Twin-Blade"]

I enjoyed the read, & I'm glad it's here & not on your blog page, where it would never have been seen. I'm no game developer, but I get the feeling the PS3 is going to be one of the most wasted bits of technology because of its complexity to develop for. I hope that in the near future we get some games that really push the PS3 to its limits, otherwise it's going to be a case of what could have been. That's not to say it hasn't held its own so far.

savetehhaloz

As a coder, I agree with what you say. Simplicity and the timeframes play a part, most developers don't have a chance to tap the PS3s true powers. In my opinion, Sony should have done it differently.

i disagree, but since youre a programmer, im interested in knowing what would be the benefit of sony doing it differently?

microsoft has a better online community and more importantly they beat sony out of the gate

sony entered this generation claiming that they were going to be pumping more money into their first and 2nd parties for exclusives which is exactly what theyve done, which is exactly where all the benefits of cell are being seen

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VanDammFan

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#33 VanDammFan
Member since 2009 • 4783 Posts

this would be a great blog.

clone01

Also would have been better if it mattered..lol..I dont think the PS3 is lacking in any way what so ever that I can see.

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jasonharris48

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#34 jasonharris48
Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts

*Looking for Valve*

___gamemaster__

Keep looking at them.

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brennan7777

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#35 brennan7777
Member since 2005 • 3253 Posts

It won't make a difference if PS3 is more "powerful" than the 360; I'm not going to hop onto the PS3 immediately just to play "superior versions" of games. That's what I have the PC for.;)

Besides, the PC is the real king of graphics, anyway.

garland51

So whats the point of the 360 then?

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Espada12

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#36 Espada12
Member since 2008 • 23247 Posts

Reading is very hard apparently, but who cares honestly there are tons of devs who don't have the money or time to be bothered with dealing with an overly complicated piece of hardware only to get less sales, than the easy one.

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Lethargika

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#37 Lethargika
Member since 2009 • 1666 Posts

Backbones quote is particularly interesting:

Backbone Entertainment - The PS3 is quite a fun system to work on. We've been really lucky in getting to work on a wide variety of projects on the platform, and have had great results. It's actually our favorite platform to show tech and game demos on; because it has the reputation of being the big bad ass machine. If you can show a demo running on the PS3, people are generally pretty impressed. We've actually used a PS3 build to prototype out a demo for a Wii game, which might be unique! There's a ton of power in the system for whatever you need, whether it's graphics, physics, etc. We're struggling to come up with game types that we couldn't do on the PS3 and really can't think of any. From the development side, we're excited about the future in features like remote play with PSP, and all the connectivity the system offers.

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LegatoSkyheart

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#38 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

WRONG!

developers hate Wii.

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drakecool1

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#39 drakecool1
Member since 2009 • 1145 Posts

*Looking for Valve*

___gamemaster__

valve lol for Gave Newel it's too hard to make games for PS3 maybe some real developers aught to teach him.

btw doesn't he look like Newman from Seinfeld

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jasonharris48

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#40 jasonharris48
Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts

[QUOTE="___gamemaster__"]

*Looking for Valve*

drakecool1

valve lol Gave Newelthinks it's too hard to make games for PS3 maybe some real developers aught to help him out.

btw doesn't he look like Newman from Seinfeld

You should really lose the fanboy logic. Why would Valve want to to developing the more complicated system and lose profit when they can work on the easier console and make money? It's not that they can't it's the fact they want to to use the resources. You really can't ague with Valves logic especially considering their biggest fan baseis on PC and the 360.

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i_am_interested

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#41 i_am_interested
Member since 2009 • 1077 Posts
people might as well just leave Valve alone i doubt valve would develop games for ps3 even if it had a more general purpose cores as apposed to special cores, newell loves microsoft
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Phacet

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#42 Phacet
Member since 2008 • 165 Posts

You should really lose the fanboy logic. Why would Valve want to to developing the more complicated system and lose profit when they can work on the easier console and make money? It's not that they can't it's the fact they want to to use the resources. You really can't ague with Valves logic especially considering their biggest fan baseis on PC and the 360.

jasonharris48

OMG lol who has fanboy logic jason.

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jasonharris48

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#43 jasonharris48
Member since 2006 • 21441 Posts

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]You should really lose the fanboy logic. Why would Valve want to to developing the more complicated system and lose profit when they can work on the easier console and make money? It's not that they can't it's the fact they want to to use the resources. You really can't ague with Valves logic especially considering their biggest fan baseis on PC and the 360.

Phacet

OMG lol who has fanboy logic jason.

It sure as hell isn't me. It seems like drakecool1 and Valve lol. But Valve has a better reason than Drakecool does. I like the PS3 and I would like to see Valve titles on it especially considering I don't own a gamingPC (own a laptop that can play some newer titles on low-mid settingd). But from a financial standpoint I can see why Valve doesn't really look into the PS3.

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lhughey

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#44 lhughey
Member since 2006 • 4886 Posts
What I hate is just because people like Valve speak out and bash the PS3 most people get the impression that devs hate the PS3 when actually they like it a lot. TintedEyes
Devs don't hate the PS3. They hate the convoluted API that Sony created to develop against the machine. Sony really needs to learn a thing or two about creating developer tools. I don't know why they don't hire some API developers from M$ to show them how to create proper APIs. I understand that Sony is a hardware company and software is not their strength, but they should be able to hire out this type of thing. And before anyone says "teh Cell iz complicated", it has nothing to do with the cell because functionality can be encapsulated by API calls.
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lhughey

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#45 lhughey
Member since 2006 • 4886 Posts
[QUOTE="i_am_interested"]people might as well just leave Valve alone i doubt valve would develop games for ps3 even if it had a more general purpose cores as apposed to special cores, newell loves microsoft

Edit: Newell loves MONEY. As does every other dev. Valve has decided its not worth their resources to develop for the PS3. Of course, that would change if it would be cost effective. Here's a question for you. If you were Newell, would you work on Half Live 3 for the PC and X360 OR would you work on L4D2 for the PS3? Because that is the decision that they have made, i'm sure. L4D2 on the PS3 will barely sell a million, while HL3 on PC/360 will sell 7Million over 3 years.
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chapnzaba

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#46 chapnzaba
Member since 2005 • 2302 Posts
Most people aren't going to read the OP and are going to assume all those companies said bad things. Nice topic.
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Zaibach

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#47 Zaibach
Member since 2007 • 13466 Posts

Its amazing how you can tell what a post will be about just by the poster. Anyway, it tooks some years but ps3 games don't run like ass anymore and don't draw as many whiney devs. Good stuff.

ActicEdge

it really is ;)

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LegatoSkyheart

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#48 LegatoSkyheart
Member since 2009 • 29733 Posts

I'm going to say what I said awhile ago and that's the devlopers do not hate PS3, but the hate the Wii because quite obviously the PS3 has Multiplat titles and the Wii DOESN'T!

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BiggGaming

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#49 BiggGaming
Member since 2009 • 345 Posts

*Looking for Valve*

___gamemaster__

Those hacks are still working with the outdated Source engine.

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BiggGaming

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#50 BiggGaming
Member since 2009 • 345 Posts

Great thread horrible title.