Devs hate ps3

[QUOTE="___gamemaster__"]

*Looking for Valve*

-Anton-

But God isn't real, where does that leave Valve... :P

Valve doesn't care about PS3 people!

[QUOTE="Phacet"]

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]You should really lose the fanboy logic. Why would Valve want to to developing the more complicated system and lose profit when they can work on the easier console and make money? It's not that they can't it's the fact they want to to use the resources. You really can't ague with Valves logic especially considering their biggest fan baseis on PC and the 360.

jasonharris48

Dude it's like how Insomniac wants to only develope games on the PS brand systems. It's because their fanbase are there and the same goes with Valve.

Lust look at how Naughty Dog used the SPU to offload all their post effects. Ambient, ray traced shadows, physics, particle systems...etc. All those are being sub processed without taxing the main SPU clusters or the GPU. I'm looking foward to seeing if the PS3 really has the technological edge in the next year or two. If that happens (an ironic twist) it would mean sony was right all along and we were just too far behind the curve to realize it :shock:

[QUOTE="drakecool1"]

[QUOTE="___gamemaster__"]

*Looking for Valve*

jasonharris48

valve lol Gave Newelthinks it's too hard to make games for PS3 maybe some real developers aught to help him out.

btw doesn't he look like Newman from Seinfeld

pretty much this

valve has already said they don't like developing for the PS3 and that it is complicated

sony just made the PS3 really hard to develop for....that isn't valves fault

[QUOTE="garland51"]

It won't make a difference if PS3 is more "powerful" than the 360; I'm not going to hop onto the PS3 immediately just to play "superior versions" of games. That's what I have the PC for.;)

Besides, the PC is the real king of graphics, anyway.

brennan7777

For games that don't appear on the PC, such as most of JRPG's, Racers, & Fighters.

Wow. Well we know who doesn't read the first posts now huh? Anywho, Yeah this whole devs have a tough time on ps3 thing was bound to end.

Neversoft - Console developers looking to push the hardware are facing an evolution in how they think about the processes that go on in games - from fairly monolithic, linear sets of operations to a much more parallelized, piecemeal approach. The cell pushes developers to take the subdivision of these processes one step further, the nature of the SPE's really drives you to break your systems down into relatively tiny subsystems which can operate on small, carefully delineated chunks of data. Developers have reached a point where they they are familiar with the PS3 RSX and PPE that improvements will be incremental. We think the SPEs remain an underutilized resource; this is where the major increases in performance and abilities will come, particularly as more work is done on how to effectively utilize the SPE's in tandem with the RSX for greater graphical processing power.

Ubisoft Montreal - The PS3 has a lot of unused power although it demands a special kind of work to express that power. On our first glance at the CELL architecture we weren't sure what we could do with the SPUs. But after a few years of messing with them, the SPUs turn out to be really capable beasts. They can churn out a lot of computations, they're a perfect compliment to the RSX, and if you program especially for them, they can surpass everything available in the current gen. They're also flexible enough to do a broad range of work and Sony's new tools makes it so they can be used for increasingly complex tasks. The program model used for SPUs is also the most future proof, so we'll get to see it more and more. This programming model gives us the expectation in the progression of quality games helped on the storage side by the capacity of Blu-Ray discs and the non-optional hard drive.

Backbone Entertainment - The PS3 is quite a fun system to work on. We've been really lucky in getting to work on a wide variety of projects on the platform, and have had great results. It's actually our favorite platform to show tech and game demos on; because it has the reputation of being the big bad ass machine. If you can show a demo running on the PS3, people are generally pretty impressed. We've actually used a PS3 build to prototype out a demo for a Wii game, which might be unique! There's a ton of power in the system for whatever you need, whether it's graphics, physics, etc. We're struggling to come up with game types that we couldn't do on the PS3 and really can't think of any. From the development side, we're excited about the future in features like remote play with PSP, and all the connectivity the system offers.

Nihilistic Software - It's cliche, but it's a very "deep" machine. Which means the deeper you dig, the more you can do with it. Even working on our third title for the PS3 we're able to make frequent improvements in performance and visual quality because there's so many ways to do things. It really rewards experimentation and trying new things out. Not everything works out and we've thrown away a lot of code over the years on failed experiments, but I think we're a "long way" from maxing out the hardware.

Quantic Dream - The graphics power is what we relied upon most and it is certainly delivering very impressively on that. The PS3 may deliver strongest in the future on it's online capabilities. I am not thinking only MMOs, but also community based experiences and most importantly online services.

Vicious Cycle Software - Developing on the PS3 can be complicated due to subtleties of the hardware. If you don't use the hardware to it's best advantage, it makes it hard to compete against other developers who are able to take full advantage of the system. Over the next three years we sould see the development community really starting to tap into the power of the PS3 hardware. There is still a lot of potential on the system and I believe we will see better games over it's life cycle compared to the other platforms on the market. More graphics, physics and rendering will get moved to the SPUs moving forward which will allow larger worlds, more simulation, more dynamic objects and better visuals overall. It is a very exciting time in the games industry and we look forward to bringing high quality titles to the PS3.

EA Visceral - We love developing on the PS3 - it's usually our lead SKU. The graphical capabilities are amazing as you can see with Dead Space and Dante's Inferno. We have a very close relationship with Sony and working with them has been a pleasurable partnership. We love the fact that the Blu-Ray disc can hold so much data. There's no doubt thats a huge attraction for us as a developer We're still learning new ways to squeeze even more out of the PS3.

Gearbox Studios - The PS3 is a sexy, powerful machine. Look at a few points: graphics, performance and market relevance. I think it's pretty clear at this point that in the long game, the PS3 can have the edge in graphics and performance depending on how specialized the software can be with the SPUs. It's harnessing the power that is a challenge for most developers and requires a substantial investment for us to do so. As far as other features, I think the free online service is a compelling option for customers and developers. What we love most about the PS3 is the Blu-Ray disc and it's tremendous storage advantage over DVD. WHile there is some risks with seek times developers must be careful about, the storage capability is a dream come true for the kinds of games we create that feature lots of high fidelity music, voice over, and huge amounts of graphics content. This PS3 advantage can not be overstated.

Bethesda - It's an interesting architecture, and it really hasn't been until the last year that developers have cracked it and really gotten how to use so many small processors each with their own memory. It takes a different type of thinking to maximize what it can do, but you're starting to see it now from simple things like running animation on an SPU, to more exotic things like line-of-sight rendering in Killzone 2. It's not to hard to draw a quality line from the first PS3 games to the latest, and guess where it's going to be by the end of this year, and then 2010.

Guerilla Games - We've found the PS3 is easier to develop for than it's competitors, provided one approached it with the right mindset. The cell based architecture allows programmers to offload all of their calculations task to the SPUs. On other platforms, general purpose cores must handle a variety of tasks and calculations- which then quickly become a nightmare to synch. In that regard we believe the PS3's reputation for being hard to develop for is largely undeserved.

Insomniac - We've learned a lot about taking better advantage of the SPUs, and redesigning our systems and gameplay to be more asynchronous. The PS3 is a computational powerhouse; if you want to build something that is based on calculating a lot of physics, objects and collision detection, you can't do better. The water physics in resistance 2 are something made possible by the cell and SPUs. Going forward, there is a lot of room to use the SPUs, and we'll see a lot of people find ways to use the SPUs that aren't related to graphics.

BlackTragedy

I really hope you copied this from another site.

games people! lets play games!

Lot's of sarcasm detecters are broken lol. Anyway, PS3 is indeed capable of great things, but it has taken years to see any significant difference compared to 360. In the next year or two it's make or break time for all that Cell and Blu Ray hype.locopatho

People don't read the first post.

Sometimes I think there's a setting to block the OP, so people only read the topic title and post.

Valve - l0l Ps3 sux!

Seeing how people's sarcasm detectors are broken, let's see how this turns out.

[QUOTE="___gamemaster__"]

*Looking for Valve*

-Anton-

It won't make a difference if PS3 is more "powerful" than the 360; I'm not going to hop onto the PS3 immediately just to play "superior versions" of games. That's what I have the PC for.;)

Besides, the PC is the real king of graphics, anyway.

garland51

Give the "New Topic" a rest there, champ.

Guerilla Games - We've found the PS3 is easier to develop for than it's competitors, provided one approached it with the right mindset. The cell based architecture allows programmers to offload all of their calculations task to the SPUs. On other platforms, general purpose cores must handle a variety of tasks and calculations- which then quickly become a nightmare to synch. In that regard we believe the PS3's reputation for being hard to develop for is largely undeserved.

Insomniac - We've learned a lot about taking better advantage of the SPUs, and redesigning our systems and gameplay to be more asynchronous. The PS3 is a computational powerhouse; if you want to build something that is based on calculating a lot of physics, objects and collision detection, you can't do better. The water physics in resistance 2 are something made possible by the cell and SPUs. Going forward, there is a lot of room to use the SPUs, and we'll see a lot of people find ways to use the SPUs that aren't related to graphics.

BlackTragedy

Above should be scratched off the list...maybe because they make games only for the ps3? So obviously its biased..

Have any of the people bashing Valve even paid attention the last few years? It's like you think they haven't changed since then.

Also I'm not impressed by someone who probably spent ages exploring the web for positive mentions, ignoring all the negative ones. This isn't a counter argument for the fact that PS3 is the harder system to work on.

Have any of the people bashing Valve even paid attention the last few years? It's like you think they haven't changed since then.

Also I'm not impressed by someone who probably spent ages exploring the web for positive mentions, ignoring all the negative ones. This isn't a counter argument for the fact that PS3 is the harder system to work on.

AnnoyedDragon

Valve are one of the few that actually whine about it. Look at Crytek, small 3rd party developers and can bring out the best.

RadecSupreme

You mean they are one of the few developers who will actually be honest about it? I've seen how brutal Sony can be if you displease them, they will cut your marketing financial support just for releasing on another platform before them, resulting in other versions being delayed while PS3 catches up.

The difference between Crytek and Valve is Crytek is gearing themselves for cross platform development, so they have to stay on everyone's good side. Valve is primarily a PC developer, the console versions are the secondary platforms to be bring in extra money. They are in a position were they can be honest and not fear the consequences.

Valve are one of the few that actually whine about it. Look at Crytek, small 3rd party developers and can bring out the best.

RadecSupreme

So how many games have Crytek released for the ps3? None?

[QUOTE="RadecSupreme"]

Valve are one of the few that actually whine about it. Look at Crytek, small 3rd party developers and can bring out the best.

AnnoyedDragon

You mean they are one of the few developers who will actually be honest about it? I've seen how brutal Sony can be if you displease them, they will cut your marketing financial support just for releasing on another platform before them, resulting in other versions being delayed while PS3 catches up.

The difference between Crytek and Valve is Crytek is gearing themselves for cross platform development, so they have to stay on everyone's good side. Valve is primarily a PC developer, the console versions are the secondary platforms to be bring in extra money. They are in a position were they can be honest and not fear the consequences.

since when is it sony's job to fund the marketing of multiplatform games?i_am_interested

Why don't you ask them? It only makes sense that a platform would want to stand out by having their version pushed more than the others.

Valve are one of the few that actually whine about it. Look at Crytek, small 3rd party developers and can bring out the best.

RadecSupreme

Crytek are a small 3rd party dev with very deep pockets backing them if you haven't noticed....

[QUOTE="i_am_interested"]since when is it sony's job to fund the marketing of multiplatform games?AnnoyedDragon

Why don't you ask them? It only makes sense that a platform would want to stand out by having their version pushed more than the others.

Umm no link???

exactly, it isnt sony's job, they got actual exclusives they need to fund and what game are you even talking abouti_am_interested

I don't know why you are acting so aggressive when I only brought up Sony policy. Got a problem with it? It's something they do, not something I'm suggesting they do.

[QUOTE="i_am_interested"]exactly, it isnt sony's job, they got actual exclusives they need to fund and what game are you even talking aboutAnnoyedDragon

[QUOTE="i_am_interested"]since when is it sony's job to fund the marketing of multiplatform games?AnnoyedDragon

Why don't you ask them? It only makes sense that a platform would want to stand out by having their version pushed more than the others.

Interesting find but may I ask for a link for all these comments.

Heartagram_03

Yes, sources please. Im sure the developers indeed made those statements, but u've got what 7-8 testimonies and not a single link. The link provides the full article and context in which your quotes were plucked out.

Like in a movie trailer. A critic can say "This film was a masterpiece of monotony and drivel". And the trailer would quote "This film is a Masterpiece..."

[QUOTE="Heartagram_03"]

Interesting find but may I ask for a link for all these comments.

jackandblood

Yes, sources please. Im sure the developers indeed made those statements, but u've got what 7-8 testimonies and not a single link. The link provides the full article and context in which your quotes were plucked out.

Here's what I found about where he got this "info" from. He copied & pasted the exact same words off of a user named "johnnynumber5 is powered by the cell" from Joystiq.

Link.

Like in a movie trailer. A critic can say "This film was a masterpiece of monotony and drivel". And the trailer would quote "This film is a Masterpiece..."jackandblood

Can you back it up with a link or something?Nerkcon

I'm not so obsessed with the SW that I record every single piece of information I come across, it is something I heard about at some point.

Don't want to believe me? That's up to you.

[QUOTE="Nerkcon"]Can you back it up with a link or something?AnnoyedDragon

I'm not so obsessed with the SW that I record every single piece of information I come across, it is something I heard about at some point.

Don't want to believe me? That's up to you.

all that tells me is that developers are lazy, and want a quick easy buck, i say poke them with a stick and make then do their jobRenzokucant

I see you went by the thread title instead of reading the OP.

It's been a while since I have seen the lazy argument, I thought people stopped using it because it was silly.

if you dont have links thats fine, but at least post what game it happened fori_am_interested

It's a policy that covers all cross platform games, there is no specific game it is applied to. It's like asking what specific game did Microsoft apply their multiple disk policy to, it affects all multi disk games.

[QUOTE="Nerkcon"]Can you back it up with a link or something?AnnoyedDragon

I'm not so obsessed with the SW that I record every single piece of information I come across, it is something I heard about at some point.

Don't want to believe me? That's up to you.

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="Phacet"] OMG lol who has fanboy logic jason.

sanim02

Dude it's like how Insomniac wants to only develope games on the PS brand systems. It's because their fanbase are there and the same goes with Valve.

And yet a couple of months back you gave me a hard time about substantiating my opinions with "proof". Nice double standard.beekayjay

Months ago? I probably won't remember then, you will have to remind me for me to know what you mean.

[QUOTE="sanim02"]

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"] It sure as hell isn't me. It seems like drakecool1 and Valve lol. But Valve has a better reason than Drakecool does. I like the PS3 and I would like to see Valve titles on it especially considering I don't own a gamingPC (own a laptop that can play some newer titles on low-mid settingd). But from a financial standpoint I can see why Valve doesn't really look into the PS3.

jasonharris48

Dude it's like how Insomniac wants to only develope games on the PS brand systems. It's because their fanbase are there and the same goes with Valve.

I'm not so obsessed with the SW that I record every single piece of information I come across, it is something I heard about at some point.AnnoyedDragon

Don't want to believe me? That's up to you.AnnoyedDragon

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="sanim02"]

Dude it's like how Insomniac wants to only develope games on the PS brand systems. It's because their fanbase are there and the same goes with Valve.

i_am_interested

this would be a great blog.

clone01

snipNerkcon

Wasn't it beekayjay that was making a fuss over what I said? Again, I cannot respond based on this "other thread" if I don't know what the other discussion was, I cannot respond to something when I don't know what it is. By all means, post a link and I can read what you are objecting to.

Here's the thing, I recognise there is no reason for someone to believe something without a source; which is why I said "Don't want to believe me? That's up to you.". So how does that put me in the wrong? I would be in the wrong if I was demanding they believe me without evidence, which I wasn't.

Its amazing how you can tell what a post will be about just by the poster.ActicEdge

I'll take Carmack and id's word on the situation. This is pretty blunt, and pretty much the way it is.

John Carmack recently came out onto the QuakeCon floor and said the PS3 version of Rage will look better than the Xbox 360 version. Why? Because of disc space. Apparently Rage will be one terabyte in fully uncompressed form, but after compression id team will be able to fit it on a Blu-ray disc. However, It seems id Software is having difficulty fitting it on a dual layer DVD.

So in a recent interview with Eurogamer Carmack spills the beans on which console he thinks is the best. Carmack clearly indicates the Xbox 360 is so much easier to develop for it's practically developing itself.

"What you can say really quite clearly and not get into too much argument about it is that the 360 is much easier to develop for, it's easier to get the performance out of it that it can deliver.."

So what about the PS3?

"You could design a game where the PS3 would be the superior platform, but you'd have to go out of your way to do it."

Carmack indicates the PS3 does have untapped potential but it's like pulling teeth from a saber tooth tiger.

"If you were doing a whole lot of simulation, you can in theory get more performance out of the Cell processor than out of the two other dual-thread processors on the 360, but that's a big 'in theory',"

So it seems the PS3 is superior in 'theory' only and the Xbox 360 is superior in realistic development processes, which makes sense considering Carmack isn't the first developer to complain about the iron tough architecture of the PS3.

The Sony folks could have done a better job by making the architecture like the Xbox 360 if they wanted to make life easier for the developers, but it seems like they don't care too much about what the developers want.

id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead indicated not all is good with Microsoft either because all of the blame doesn't go to the size of the game, it shares the blame with Microsoft's requirement that two gigs of space be used for Microsoft essential stuff. I am guessing all the Xbox Live related stuff mandatory for all games.

Obviously id software is not a fan of the PS3 architecture but they do feel Sony did one hell of a job future proofing the system.

"I think the blu-ray strategy and some of the other things they've done in terms how (the PS3) is positioned as a home entertainment device, shows that (Sony) is placing their bet on the PS3 as a marathon runner not a sprint and Microsoft was a little more focused on the short term goals."

ohh… sounds like them fighting words. All jokes aside seriously all third party games will be similar aside a few textures here and there nothing to cry about the fanboy flame wars are silly however amusing it is to watch it.

I leave you with some wise words from id Software I whole heartily agree upon.

The winner is:

"both really good". "That's why any time that people make comments one way or the other about the consoles, it's easy to leave aside of the fact that it's the best that it's ever been in any generation in terms of support capabilities and all that."

this would be a great blog.

[QUOTE="jackandblood"]

[QUOTE="Heartagram_03"]

Interesting find but may I ask for a link for all these comments.

garland51

Yes, sources please. Im sure the developers indeed made those statements, but u've got what 7-8 testimonies and not a single link. The link provides the full article and context in which your quotes were plucked out.

Here's what I found about where he got this "info" from. He copied & pasted the exact same words off of a user named "johnnynumber5 is powered by the cell" from Joystiq.

Link.

Well i'll tell u what, Johnnynumber5 has some convincing writing/forgery skills. Good for him. TC is too busy to give a link? What, do keep a scrapbook on anything positive you read about your particular console, a word document or something? That's, well pretty damn sad.

[QUOTE="AnnoyedDragon"]

[QUOTE="i_am_interested"]since when is it sony's job to fund the marketing of multiplatform games?Zero_epyon

Why don't you ask them? It only makes sense that a platform would want to stand out by having their version pushed more than the others.

Sony starting to get deals too, AC2 is advitise as PS3 exclusive (at least in TV) and Batman:AA Joker DLC :)

And i'm sure this was not come just from dev platform love