@ronvalencia: You do realize that I used your term “refreshing” and quoted you, right? Well of course not because you just corrected the post and called me a name.
You are now arguing with yourself. That’s something only a goof would do
@tormentos: I guess you do live up to your own proclaimed title of "sony fanboy" if you deny tht the freakin' PS3 was overpriced. What were getting for $600 when it launched? Something much like the Xbox, a system that had barely any good games to make it worthwhile.
FYI, Mac Pro 2013's cool solution is handling dual AMD Fire Pro D500 GPUs (24CU, Tahiti LE GL, 274 Watts TDP each, 550 watts) and Intel Xeon E5 8 cores with 3.8 Ghz boost. https://www.apple.com/mac-pro-2013/specs/
XSX doesn't have dual Southern Islands GPUs with 550 watts.
Your linked Mac Pro SKU has 12 cores Xeon CPU with dual D700s (32 CU, Tahiti XT GL) LOL. The user purchased the highest Mac Pro 2013 SKU config.
It's well-known 7870 XT (24 CU, Tahiti LE, 185 watts) consumes less power than 7970 (32 CU, Tahiti XT, 250 watts).
Apple is asking too much from Mac Pro 2013's cool solution.
FYI, Mac Pro 2013's cool solution is handling dual AMD Fire Pro D500 GPUs (274 Watts TDP each, 550 watts) and Intel Xeon E5 8 cores with 3.8 Ghz boost.
XSX doesn't have dual Southern Islands GPUs with 550 watts. Apple is asking too much from Mac Pro 2013's cool solution.
"Apple is asking too much from Mac Pro 2013's cool solution." Exactly why I said it was a bad example. The Mac pro was trying to cool typically hot components, but it was also much larger and had a much larger fan. Scale that down to the Series X with less space for airflow in the box. That's the concern.
FYI, Mac Pro 2013's cool solution is handling dual AMD Fire Pro D500 GPUs (274 Watts TDP each, 550 watts) and Intel Xeon E5 8 cores with 3.8 Ghz boost.
XSX doesn't have dual Southern Islands GPUs with 550 watts. Apple is asking too much from Mac Pro 2013's cool solution.
"Apple is asking too much from Mac Pro 2013's cool solution." Exactly why I said it was a bad example. The Mac pro was trying to cool typically hot components, but it was also much larger and had a much larger fan. Scale that down to the Series X with less space for airflow in the box. That's the concern.
I don't see the cooling problem. It looks like a large blower cooling solution.
@ronvalencia: But the Series X isn’t in a blower configuration... You are completely lost
GPU blower cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
XSX cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
GPU non-blower cooling solution = open case with air pushers (multiple fans) and metal cooling fins. GPU's hot air is dumped inside the PC case which needs additional case fans.
@ronvalencia: But the Series X isn’t in a blower configuration... You are completely lost
GPU blower cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
XSX cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
GPU non-blower cooling solution = open case with air pushers (multiple fans) and metal cooling fins. GPU's hot air is dumped inside the PC case which needs additional case fans.
@ronvalencia: But the Series X isn’t in a blower configuration... You are completely lost
GPU blower cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
XSX cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
GPU non-blower cooling solution = open case with air pushers (multiple fans) and metal cooling fins. GPU's hot air is dumped inside the PC case which needs additional case fans.
Try again
The fan in the series x is clearly a pulling fan. It pulls cool air from below and heat comes out from the top.
@tormentos: I guess you do live up to your own proclaimed title of "sony fanboy" if you deny tht the freakin' PS3 was overpriced. What were getting for $600 when it launched? Something much like the Xbox, a system that had barely any good games to make it worthwhile.
Over priced and expensive are 2 different things.
Over priced is something that is not WORTH its asking price.
Expensive is something that cost more than the common product in a certain line of producs.
Example Samsung TV vs TLC you make call samsung TV more expensive,but you can't say they are over priced vs a TLC which much of the times have sucky image quality and is cheaply built all around.
The xbox 360 was $300 and $400 the PS3 was $500 and $600.
For $400 on 360 you got a 20GB machine with no online,no wifi,no media reader and no HD media.
HD-DVD adapter was $199.
Wifi adapter for 360 was $100
Live was $50 then $60
Extra HDD was $100 for 20GB.
If you bought the $300 version and add all that ^^ you core 360 would have cost you $750 dollars and you have a wired controller,not the wireless one.
If you went with the pro model you would have pay $750 either way,but you had a wireless controller,and your HDD was jjust 20GB.
The PS3 was $600 but had wifi not by entena by the way,it had a 60GB HDD 3 times the size of the 360 one,free online play which was $50 then $60 a year,and blu-ray which was $1,000 stand alone on 2006.
So as you can see the PS3 may had been more expensive but not over priced the PS3 hardware wise chew and spit the xbox 360 in value,blu-ray alone kicked the 360 ass.
Oh and if by any chance you wanted the $500 PS3,you just payed $50 more than a Pro xbox 360 with xbox live.
@Zero_epyon said: The fan in the series x is clearly a pulling fan. It pulls cool air from below and heat comes out from the top.
@goldenelementxl said:
@ronvalencia said:
GPU blower cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
XSX cooling solution = enclosed tunnel-like case with an air pusher (fan) and metal cooling fins.
GPU non-blower cooling solution = open case with air pushers (multiple fans) and metal cooling fins. GPU's hot air is dumped inside the PC case which needs additional case fans.
Try again
Are we gonna fight over push vs pull now?
Will you EVER admit to being wrong?
Push and pull is not my argument i.e. both methods displace warm air with cool air.
Microsoft touts their new Xbox SX is the world's most powerful console that will "eat monsters for breakfast." It also might eat your power bill. New calculations from DigitalFoundry peg the Xbox Series X's power consumption at up to 300W thanks to the new high-end components housed in the monolith-shaped box. This represents a huge 76% spike in power draw compared to the Xbox One X's 170W.
For about 300 watts discrete GPU card target, removing the CPU shows "Big Navi" with 80 CU RDNA 2 is possible from 56 CU RDNA 2 baseline.
@ronvalencia: You compared the Series X to a blower GPU and said the fan was a “pusher.” And then there’s the “refresher” stuff. You’ve been all over the place in this thread.
@ronvalencia: You compared the Series X to a blower GPU and said the fan was a “pusher.” And then there’s the “refresher” stuff. You’ve been all over the place in this thread.
Pushing cool air to displace hot air = refreshing warm air with cool air.
Pulling warm air to draw in cool air = refreshing warm air with cool air.
The fan's job is to move warm air and replace it with cool air.Air molecules are the medium that absorbs IR energy from vapor cooler's IR emitting metal fins.
For cooling solutions, fans don't work in near-vacuum of space.
@ronvalencia: “ For cooling solutions, fans don't work in near-vacuum of space.”
You’re trolling at this point. Only explanation point. Ron is a troll bot.
Stop denying science
Stop arguing bullshit just to try to win,you look freaking pathetic,the xbox series X is not in the vaccum of space,in on freaking earth,and uses a damn fan for cooling because without it the machine will over heat period,but not even that you can admit.
@ronvalencia: “ For cooling solutions, fans don't work in near-vacuum of space.”
You’re trolling at this point. Only explanation point. Ron is a troll bot.
Stop denying science
Stop arguing bullshit just to try to win,you look freaking pathetic,the xbox series X is not in the vaccum of space,in on freaking earth,and uses a damn fan for cooling because without it the machine will over heat period,but not even that you can admit.
My point about the vacuum of space is to prove the fan's role in XSX's cooling solution i.e. to displace hot air with cool air.
The actual "cooling" (i.e. IR energy absorption) is done by the air molecules.
Your argument is the real bullshit. Stop denying science.
This is so dumb no matter how you slice it the fan is clearly part of the cooling system and is used to keep the console cool. Just because it doesn’t sit directly on the chip doesn’t mean it’s not used to keep it cool. If that’s the case then what are radiator fans for in a water cooled system? why does a car need a fan even though it’s not blowing directly on the motor? The purpose of a fan is too cool things off, no matter the cooling system design.
@tormentos: I guess you do live up to your own proclaimed title of "sony fanboy" if you deny tht the freakin' PS3 was overpriced. What were getting for $600 when it launched? Something much like the Xbox, a system that had barely any good games to make it worthwhile.
Over priced and expensive are 2 different things.
Over priced is something that is not WORTH its asking price.
Expensive is something that cost more than the common product in a certain line of producs.
Example Samsung TV vs TLC you make call samsung TV more expensive,but you can't say they are over priced vs a TLC which much of the times have sucky image quality and is cheaply built all around.
The xbox 360 was $300 and $400 the PS3 was $500 and $600.
For $400 on 360 you got a 20GB machine with no online,no wifi,no media reader and no HD media.
HD-DVD adapter was $199.
Wifi adapter for 360 was $100
Live was $50 then $60
Extra HDD was $100 for 20GB.
If you bought the $300 version and add all that ^^ you core 360 would have cost you $750 dollars and you have a wired controller,not the wireless one.
If you went with the pro model you would have pay $750 either way,but you had a wireless controller,and your HDD was jjust 20GB.
The PS3 was $600 but had wifi not by entena by the way,it had a 60GB HDD 3 times the size of the 360 one,free online play which was $50 then $60 a year,and blu-ray which was $1,000 stand alone on 2006.
So as you can see the PS3 may had been more expensive but not over priced the PS3 hardware wise chew and spit the xbox 360 in value,blu-ray alone kicked the 360 ass.
Oh and if by any chance you wanted the $500 PS3,you just payed $50 more than a Pro xbox 360 with xbox live.
I am not reading that essay long response trying to defend the PS3's bad pricing. Expensive is something that costs a lot but is generally worth it. Overpriced is the opposite. What was the PS3 offering that made $600 reasonable? Likewise, what was it that made the Xbox One's $500 pricing reasonable? Nothing. Both of them lacked anything to show for it. You were paying $600 for a system that hardly had any good games to make it worthwhile.
The PS3 was overpriced, no amount you twisting it will change that.
This is so dumb no matter how you slice it the fan is clearly part of the cooling system and is used to keep the console cool. Just because it doesn’t sit directly on the chip doesn’t mean it’s not used to keep it cool. If that’s the case then what are radiator fans for in a water cooled system? why does a car need a fan even though it’s not blowing directly on the motor? The purpose of a fan is too cool things off, no matter the cooling system design.
Fan's main purpose is to displace warm air with cooler air. Place a gaming PC on a traveling car with sufficient forward airflow and it would do the same job as a fan.
My hybrid car's electric driven radiator fans are rarely used during winter travel or high-speed cruising (there's enough airflow from traveling forward) i.e. the computer is smart enough to figure out temps are not high enough to turn the radiator fans. During the winter, the car wants the engine and catalytic converter to be warm (to reach optimal operating temperature) which doesn't activate electrically driven radiator fans. The radiator's warm water is automatically stored inside a thermos flask to help with any engine restart. This is for Lexus or Toyota hybrid vehicles.
The car's radiator system uses water to transport heat (IR) waste energy from the motor and presented it to the radiator for IR emission into a cooler air environment.
Both XSX's vapor cooler and typical PC liquid cooler solutions have specifically designed metal surfaces to radiate heat (IR) energy into a cool air environment, but this local cool air environment changes into warm air state when it absorbs heat (IR) energy which needs fans to displace the warm air with cool air.
The fan itself doesn't reduce the vapor cooler's IR energy i.e. that work is done by cooler air which needs to be replaced continuously.
I don't follow laymen's understanding on thermal dynamics.
This is so dumb no matter how you slice it the fan is clearly part of the cooling system and is used to keep the console cool. Just because it doesn’t sit directly on the chip doesn’t mean it’s not used to keep it cool. If that’s the case then what are radiator fans for in a water cooled system? why does a car need a fan even though it’s not blowing directly on the motor? The purpose of a fan is too cool things off, no matter the cooling system design.
Fan's main purpose is to displace warm air with cooler air. Place a gaming PC on a traveling car with sufficient forward airflow and it would do the same job as a fan.
My hybrid car's electric driven radiator fans are rarely used during winter travel or high-speed cruising (there's enough airflow from traveling forward) i.e. the computer is smart enough to figure out temps are not high enough to turn the radiator fans. During the winter, the car wants the engine and catalytic converter to be warm (to reach optimal operating temperature) which doesn't activate electrically driven radiator fans. The radiator's warm water is automatically stored inside a thermos flask to help with any engine restart. This is for Lexus or Toyota hybrid vehicles.
The car's radiator system uses water to transport heat (IR) waste energy from the motor and presented it to the radiator for IR emission into a cooler air environment.
Both XSX's vapor cooler and typical PC liquid cooler solutions have specifically designed metal surfaces to radiate heat (IR) energy into a cool air environment, but this local cool air environment changes into warm air state when it absorbs heat (IR) energy which needs fans to displace the warm air with cool air.
The fan itself doesn't reduce the vapor cooler's IR energy i.e. that work is done by cooler air which needs to be replaced continuously.
I don't follow laymen's understanding on thermal dynamics.
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....
Man you will simply not admit that the xbox fan is a cooling fan,it doesn't matter if it disipate heat or bloiw directly the GPU stop been an ass man,is a cooling fan if it wasn't it would not be there.
When you prove to me the xbox series X can run without a fan without overheating then you will have a point you are just grasping at this point.
@hrt_rulz01 said:
@Pedro said:
We are still talking about cooling in this thread? LMAO.
Lol... cows clutching at straws.
You can't be this moronic Ronvalencia isn't a cow.lol
@thatdbfan said:
I am not reading that essay long response trying to defend the PS3's bad pricing. Expensive is something that costs a lot but is generally worth it. Overpriced is the opposite. What was the PS3 offering that made $600 reasonable? Likewise, what was it that made the Xbox One's $500 pricing reasonable? Nothing. Both of them lacked anything to show for it. You were paying $600 for a system that hardly had any good games to make it worthwhile.
The PS3 was overpriced, no amount you twisting it will change that.
I don't care about your pathetic excuses to justify ignoring facts.
The PS5 20GB was $50 more dollars than a danm xbox with xbox live which was MANDATORY for online play,and you got blu-ray and free online play for just $50 more if you asked me the xbox 360 was the over priced piece of crap.
Is not my fault that you don't know the difference between over priced and expensive you are just been dence,blu-ray stand alone was $1,000 in 2006 and the PS3 was a blu-ray player,even looking at it from the perspective of blu-ray player alone that machine was $400 less than samsung blu-ray player and had better quality as well and was upgradable unlike the samsung model.
So you got a blu-ray player $1,000 + a next gen console $400 + online free play which was $50 on the other console and still we have wifi,media reader,and online free play.
The PS3 was the best value hardware you could buy in 2006 no quenstions ask.
Fan's main purpose is to displace warm air with cooler air. Place a gaming PC on a traveling car with sufficient forward airflow and it would do the same job as a fan.
My hybrid car's electric driven radiator fans are rarely used during winter travel or high-speed cruising (there's enough airflow from traveling forward) i.e. the computer is smart enough to figure out temps are not high enough to turn the radiator fans. During the winter, the car wants the engine and catalytic converter to be warm (to reach optimal operating temperature) which doesn't activate electrically driven radiator fans. The radiator's warm water is automatically stored inside a thermos flask to help with any engine restart. This is for Lexus or Toyota hybrid vehicles.
The car's radiator system uses water to transport heat (IR) waste energy from the motor and presented it to the radiator for IR emission into a cooler air environment.
Both XSX's vapor cooler and typical PC liquid cooler solutions have specifically designed metal surfaces to radiate heat (IR) energy into a cool air environment, but this local cool air environment changes into warm air state when it absorbs heat (IR) energy which needs fans to displace the warm air with cool air.
The fan itself doesn't reduce the vapor cooler's IR energy i.e. that work is done by cooler air which needs to be replaced continuously.
I don't follow laymen's understanding on thermal dynamics.
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....
Man you will simply not admit that the xbox fan is a cooling fan,it doesn't matter if it disipate heat or bloiw directly the GPU stop been an ass man,is a cooling fan if it wasn't it would not be there.
When you prove to me the xbox series X can run without a fan without overheating then you will have a point you are just grasping at this point.
Again, I don't follow laymen's understanding on thermal dynamics.
The fan's job is to displace/move warm air and replace it with cool air.
This is not about what the fan job is for dumb dumb is about the RESULTS OF THAT DISIPATION in other words what do you accomplish by dissipating heat? Yeah a cooler system so yes it is a cooling fan.
@tormentos: I've read it all now. The 600 buck ps3 was the best value hardware you could buy in 2006?
By that logic, was the x1 at 500 the best value for it's time?
Lemme guess, no because why would a game console force extra hardware on you that ramps the price up?
The ps3 was a games machine which was both overpriced and expensive as a games console, which was why it cannabalised and relaunched at a cheaper price.
@tormentos: I've read it all now. The 600 buck ps3 was the best value hardware you could buy in 2006?
By that logic, was the x1 at 500 the best value for it's time?
Lemme guess, no because why would a game console force extra hardware on you that ramps the price up?
The ps3 was a games machine which was both overpriced and expensive as a games console, which was why it cannabalised and relaunched at a cheaper price.
Not to interject, but I'm fairly sure he's saying the ps3 was an awesome value because blu-ray players at that time were crazy expensive.
This is not about what the fan job is for dumb dumb is about the RESULTS OF THAT DISIPATION in other words what do you accomplish by dissipating heat? Yeah a cooler system so yes it is a cooling fan.
Red herring. You are changing the argument cow dung.
@ronvalencia: You do realize that I used your term “refreshing” and quoted you, right? Well of course not because you just corrected the post and called me a name.
You are now arguing with yourself. That’s something only a goof would do
Let's see who started calling names such we.
You started the name-calling and I return the serve.
Google search "refreshing air cooling" and it leads to air conditioner LOL.
@ronvalencia: That wasn’t the point of my post at all. I literally quoted you, and you responded by corrected my post. My post quoting you... You were fighting with yourself and called me a name. That makes you more of a dumbass than a goof, but I was trying to be nice.
@Chutebox: I get that, but that's what made the ps3 overpriced and even Sony studio president Yoshida calls the launch price a "disaster". Adding hardware components to a console that ramp up the price (Hello kinect) has never worked out well, and has certainly never resulted in the "best value hardware".
@SecretPolice: Well that’s not what happened at all. I brought up a legitimate concern about the cooling and airflow, and the Xbox Boys decided to create an alternate universe where fans don’t cool things. That’s the level of delusion on this board. People have to exist in an alternate reality in order to feel good about their favorite console. Any questions or concerns about that console is an attack on their existence.
Actually, fans don't cool things i.e. it's the cool air (i.e. lower energy state air molecules) that absorbs IR photons being emitted by vapor cooler's metal fins. A fan moves the hot air and replacing it with cool air.
Fans don't cause air molecules to reduce their energy state. A very high-pressure/high-velocity airflow fan can increase air temperature i.e. it's call air fiction.
Laser cooling method doesn't need a fan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cooling A very expensive cooling method.
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