Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects

  • 54 results
  • 1
  • 2

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

Seems a bit old not to be on SW but perhaps I missed it and if so, go ahead and sue me then lock the thread. :P

Basically teh TLDR is...

Very interesting and if all on the up & up, one can understand how mooaar percieved brute powah doesn't really mean more powerful games. :cool:

Long read so I'll just post some tidbits, full story, hit the link.

Some of the story.

--

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-the-xbox-one-architects

Digital Foundry vs. the Xbox One architects

"There's a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of people who don't get it. We're actually extremely proud of our design."

( starts like this)

Two months away from the release of the next generation consoles, many have already made up their minds about which machine offers more gaming power before a single game has been released. Compare basic graphics and memory bandwidth specs side-by-side and it looks like a wash - PlayStation 4 comprehensively bests Xbox One to such a degree that sensible discussion of the respective merits of both consoles seems impossible. They're using the same core AMD technologies, only Sony has faster memory and a much larger graphics chip. But is it really that simple?

In the wake of stories from unnamed sources suggesting that PS4 has a significant advantage over its Xbox counterpart, Microsoft wanted to set the record straight. Last Tuesday, Digital Foundry dialled into a conference call to talk with two key technical personnel behind the Xbox One project - passionate engineers who wanted the opportunity to put their story across in a deep-dive technical discussion where all the controversies could be addressed. Within moments of the conversation starting, it quickly became clear that balance would be the theme.

----

(some in the midle )

GPU Compute and the importance of the CPU

Goosen also believes that leaked Sony documents on VGLeaks bear out Microsoft's argument:

"Sony was actually agreeing with us. They said that their system was balanced for 14 CUs. They used that term: balance. Balance is so important in terms of your actual efficient design. Their additional four CUs are very beneficial for their additional GPGPU work. We've actually taken a very different tack on that. The experiments we did showed that we had headroom on CUs as well. In terms of balance, we did index more in terms of CUs than needed so we have CU overhead. There is room for our titles to grow over time in terms of CU utilisation."

Microsoft's approach to asynchronous GPU compute is somewhat different to Sony's - something we'll track back on at a later date. But essentially, rather than concentrate extensively on raw compute power, their philosophy is that both CPU and GPU need lower latency access to the same memory. Goosen points to the Exemplar skeletal tracking system on Kinect on Xbox 360 as an example for why they took that direction.

"Exemplar ironically doesn't need much ALU. It's much more about the latency you have in terms of memory fetch, so this is kind of a natural evolution for us," he says. "It's like, OK, it's the memory system which is more important for some particular GPGPU workloads."

The team is also keen to emphasise that the 150MHz boost to CPU clock speed is actually a whole lot more important than many believe it is.

"Interestingly, the biggest source of your frame-rate drops actually comes from the CPU, not the GPU," Goosen reveals. "Adding the margin on the CPU... we actually had titles that were losing frames largely because they were CPU-bound in terms of their core threads. In providing what looks like a very little boost, it's actually a very significant win for us in making sure that we get the steady frame-rates on our console."

This in part explains why several of the custom hardware blocks - the Data Move Engines - are geared towards freeing up CPU time. Profiling revealed that this was a genuine issue, which has been balanced with a combination of the clock speed boost and fixed function silicon - the additional processors built in to the Xbox One processor.

"We've got a lot of CPU offload going on. We've got the SHAPE, the more efficient command processor relative to the standard design, we've got the clock boost - it's in large part actually to ensure that we've got the headroom for the frame-rates," Goosen continues - but it seems that the systems's Data Move Engines can help the GPU too.

---

(ends with this)

"Imagine you've rendered to a depth buffer there in ESRAM. And now you're switching to another depth buffer. You may want to go and pull what is now a texture into DDR so that you can texture out of it later, and you're not doing tons of reads from that texture so it actually makes more sense for it to be in DDR. You can use the Move Engines to move these things asynchronously in concert with the GPU so the GPU isn't spending any time on the move. You've got the DMA engine doing it. Now the GPU can go on and immediately work on the next render target rather than simply move bits around."

Other areas of custom silicon are also designed to help out the graphics performance.

"We've done things on the GPU side as well with our hardware overlays to ensure more consistent frame-rates," Goosen adds. "We have two independent layers we can give to the titles where one can be 3D content, one can be the HUD. We have a higher quality scaler than we had on Xbox 360. What this does is that we actually allow you to change the scaler parameters on a frame-by-frame basis."

Dynamic resolution scaling isn't new - we've seen it implemented on a lot of current-gen titles. Indeed, the first example in the current generation was on a Sony title: WipEout HD. Impact on image quality can be rough at 720p, but at higher resolutions and in concert with superior scaling, it could be a viable performance equalising measure.

"I talked about CPU glitches causing frame glitches... GPU workloads tend to be more coherent frame to frame. There doesn't tend to be big spikes like you get on the CPU and so you can adapt to that," Goosen explains.

"What we're seeing in titles is adopting the notion of dynamic resolution scaling to avoid glitching frame-rate. As they start getting into an area where they're starting to hit on the margin there where they could potentially go over their frame budget, they could start dynamically scaling back on resolution and they can keep their HUD in terms of true resolution and the 3D content is squeezing. Again, from my aspect as a gamer I'd rather have a consistent frame-rate and some squeezing on the number of pixels than have those frame-rate glitches."

"From a power/efficiency standpoint as well, fixed functions are more power-friendly on fixed function units," adds Nick Baker. "We put data compression on there as well, so we have LZ compression/decompression and also motion JPEG decode which helps with Kinect. So there's a lot more to the Data Move Engines than moving from one block of memory to another."

We've been talking in-depth for over an hour and our time draws to a close. The entire discussion has been completely tech-centric, to the point where we'd almost forgotten that the November launch of Xbox One is likely to be hugely significant for Nick Baker and Andrew Goosen personally. How does it feel to see the console begin to roll off the production line after years in development?

"Yeah, getting something out is always, always a great feeling [but] my team work on multiple programs in parallel - we're constantly busy working on the architecture team," says Baker.

Goosen has the final word:

"For me, the biggest reward is to go and play the games and see that they look great and that yeah, this is why we did all that hard work. As a graphics guy it's so rewarding to see those pixels up on the screen."

Avatar image for inggrish
inggrish

10503

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#2 inggrish
Member since 2005 • 10503 Posts

Wall of text!!! AAAAAARGH! *runs*

But yeah, the power itself has little relevence in the whole scheme of things. I mean look at what the PS3 managed to produce graphics wise with a stupidly weak graphics processor.

I do look forward to seeing what the X1 can achieve a couple years down the line :)

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

Wall of text!!! AAAAAARGH! *runs*

But yeah, the power itself has little relevence in the whole scheme of things. I mean look at what the PS3 managed to produce graphics wise with a stupidly weak graphics processor.

I do look forward to seeing what the X1 can achieve a couple years down the line :)

_Matt_

:lol: Yeah, wall of text but the full article is much much worse and I did put a sorta tldr in there just for good measure.

We'll see soon enough but simply put, there's just so much more to it than the GPU & ram speed, it's certainly going to be an interesting gen me thinks. :)

Avatar image for inggrish
inggrish

10503

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#4 inggrish
Member since 2005 • 10503 Posts

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

Wall of text!!! AAAAAARGH! *runs*

But yeah, the power itself has little relevence in the whole scheme of things. I mean look at what the PS3 managed to produce graphics wise with a stupidly weak graphics processor.

I do look forward to seeing what the X1 can achieve a couple years down the line :)

SecretPolice

:lol: Yeah, wall of text but the full article is much much worse and I did but a sorta TLRD in there just for good measure.

We'll see soon enough but simply put, there's just so much more to it than the GPU & ram speed, it's certainly going to be an interesting gen me thinks. :)

 

Most definitely will be an interesting gen. Can't wait for more game announcements for either system, both are needing a boost in software announcements

Avatar image for silversix_
silversix_

26347

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts
Its the weakest next gen system and if it was downgraded a little more it would've reached last gen level of power *cough* WiiU. Not a single, i repeat, not a single announced game looks half impressive on X1, its so bad that lems tell to themselves that Quantum Flop CGI is the actual gameplay, its pretty sad and funny at the same time.
Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

Its the weakest next gen system and if it was downgraded a little more it would've reached last gen level of power *cough* WiiU. Not a single, i repeat, not a single announced game looks half impressive on X1, its so bad that lems tell to themselves that Quantum Flop CGI is the actual gameplay, its pretty sad and funny at the same time.silversix_
Mooo...

funny-baby-cowboy-hat-cow.jpg:P

Avatar image for Heil68
Heil68

60835

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#7 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60835 Posts

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

Wall of text!!! AAAAAARGH! *runs*

But yeah, the power itself has little relevence in the whole scheme of things. I mean look at what the PS3 managed to produce graphics wise with a stupidly weak graphics processor.

I do look forward to seeing what the X1 can achieve a couple years down the line :)

SecretPolice

:lol: Yeah, wall of text but the full article is much much worse and I did put a sorta tldr in there just for good measure.

We'll see soon enough but simply put, there's just so much more to it than the GPU & ram speed, it's certainly going to be an interesting gen me thinks. :)

Yeah, what else can hardcore lems say when they have the inferior hardware. Well played
Avatar image for LA-Nighthawk
LA-Nighthawk

335

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 LA-Nighthawk
Member since 2013 • 335 Posts
INB4 cows invade this thread in droves and make it unreadable like they do with every thread on SW.
Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

INB4 cows invade this thread in droves and make it unreadable like they do with every thread on SW. LA-Nighthawk
Normally yes but not with a SP created thread, they want those moved off the front page as quickly as possible. :cool:

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

Wall of text!!! AAAAAARGH! *runs*

But yeah, the power itself has little relevence in the whole scheme of things. I mean look at what the PS3 managed to produce graphics wise with a stupidly weak graphics processor.

I do look forward to seeing what the X1 can achieve a couple years down the line :)

Heil68

:lol: Yeah, wall of text but the full article is much much worse and I did put a sorta tldr in there just for good measure.

We'll see soon enough but simply put, there's just so much more to it than the GPU & ram speed, it's certainly going to be an interesting gen me thinks. :)

Yeah, what else can hardcore lems say when they have the inferior hardware. Well played

Same thing they said this gen with the supposedly weaker 360.... eat teh lems dust mofo. :twisted:

Avatar image for Heil68
Heil68

60835

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#11 Heil68
Member since 2004 • 60835 Posts

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"]:lol: Yeah, wall of text but the full article is much much worse and I did put a sorta tldr in there just for good measure.

We'll see soon enough but simply put, there's just so much more to it than the GPU & ram speed, it's certainly going to be an interesting gen me thinks. :)

SecretPolice

Yeah, what else can hardcore lems say when they have the inferior hardware. Well played

Same thing they said this gen with the supposedly weaker 360.... eat teh lems dust mofo. :twisted:

Great! That means Sony will *again* give us a unprecedented amount of GOTY exclusives, a 10/10 game and 2 top 5 games of ALL time. Damn, feels good I got my PS4 pre-order in. Did you get yours? Greatness awaits. Sony. PS4.
Avatar image for silversix_
silversix_

26347

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Its the weakest next gen system and if it was downgraded a little more it would've reached last gen level of power *cough* WiiU. Not a single, i repeat, not a single announced game looks half impressive on X1, its so bad that lems tell to themselves that Quantum Flop CGI is the actual gameplay, its pretty sad and funny at the same time.SecretPolice

Mooo...

:P

okay lets say what i wrote is fanboyish. What exactly is false? There's two next gen systems and xbone is significnatly weaker that's a fact by now. Which game is impressive looking (its next gen, if a game can't even handle 1080p its an automatic failure to impress)? Not a single game looks good unless Ryse: Son of 900p is what impress you. And don't tell me you and other lems aren't hyping Quatum Flop cgi as gameplay because i've seen dozens upon dozens of lems seriously bragging about what was shown as gameplay which is :lol: x2 because achieving this kind of visuals with a 7790 is LOL gl to you bro

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

[QUOTE="Heil68"] Yeah, what else can hardcore lems say when they have the inferior hardware. Well played Heil68

Same thing they said this gen with the supposedly weaker 360.... eat teh lems dust mofo. :twisted:

Great! That means Sony will *again* give us a unprecedented amount of GOTY exclusives, a 10/10 game and 2 top 5 games of ALL time. Damn, feels good I got my PS4 pre-order in. Did you get yours? Greatness awaits. Sony. PS4.

You always do that knowing after reading, I always throw up a lil in mah mouth... Yuck. :P

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Its the weakest next gen system and if it was downgraded a little more it would've reached last gen level of power *cough* WiiU. Not a single, i repeat, not a single announced game looks half impressive on X1, its so bad that lems tell to themselves that Quantum Flop CGI is the actual gameplay, its pretty sad and funny at the same time.silversix_

Mooo...

:P

okay lets say what i wrote is fanboyish. What exactly is false? There's two next gen systems and xbone is significnatly weaker that's a fact by now. Which game is impressive looking (its next gen, if a game can't even handle 1080p its an automatic failure to impress)? Not a single game looks good unless Ryse: Son of 900p is what impress you. And don't tell me you and other lems aren't hyping Quatum Flop cgi as gameplay because i've seen dozens upon dozens of lems seriously bragging about what was shown as gameplay which is :lol: x2 because achieving this kind of visuals with a 7790 is LOL gl to you bro

Lets just say I heard this all before near the start of many past gens and the latest being this gen when many like yourself convinced themselves in 2006/2006 that PS3 was a super computer and would wipe the floor with 360 & Wii at launch both in performance & sales :o How's all that work out? :o

Probably best to be a wait and see kinda gamer before calling systems & games flops before the have even hit the street. ;)

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33798

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33798 Posts

You are a day late and a dollar short.

 

The best parts out of that interview are.

 

New word for weak = balance balance balance even when the system more unbalance than the competition system.

Gimped 7790 confirmed to be the GPU on the xbox one.

Memory will be 140 to 150 GB/s not 204GB/s.

GDDR5 is bad some how.

MS biggest reason for ESRAM + DDR3 = cheaper.

MS claiming that 14 CU is the right balance but they only have 12 CU 2 disable.

MS claim that sony agree with them based on Vgleaks wrong info about the PS4 been 14+4 CU.

MS wanting to imply that more CU mean less performance do to diminishing returns.

 

That is about it.

Avatar image for silversix_
silversix_

26347

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 silversix_
Member since 2010 • 26347 Posts

[QUOTE="silversix_"]

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]Mooo...

:P

SecretPolice

okay lets say what i wrote is fanboyish. What exactly is false? There's two next gen systems and xbone is significnatly weaker that's a fact by now. Which game is impressive looking (its next gen, if a game can't even handle 1080p its an automatic failure to impress)? Not a single game looks good unless Ryse: Son of 900p is what impress you. And don't tell me you and other lems aren't hyping Quatum Flop cgi as gameplay because i've seen dozens upon dozens of lems seriously bragging about what was shown as gameplay which is :lol: x2 because achieving this kind of visuals with a 7790 is LOL gl to you bro

Lets just say I heard this all before near the start of many past gens and the latest being this gen when many like yourself convinced themselves in 2006/2006 that PS3 was a super computer and would wipe the floor with 360 & Wii at launch both in performance & sales :o How's all that work out? :o

Probably best to be a wait and see kinda gamer before calling systems & games flops before the have even hit the street. ;)

we know the specs now, there's no magic sauce that will be unlocked in the future. what you have is what you get and what's inside xbone is weak. doesn't matter if x1 sells as pathetically as wiiu or as well as a ps2, its still a weak system with poor exclusives here to stay for the next 10 years.

Avatar image for Nengo_Flow
Nengo_Flow

10644

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17 Nengo_Flow
Member since 2011 • 10644 Posts

INB4 cows invade this thread in droves and make it unreadable like they do with every thread on SW. LA-Nighthawk

iSpxXFnwJh21z.gif

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

[QUOTE="silversix_"]okay lets say what i wrote is fanboyish. What exactly is false? There's two next gen systems and xbone is significnatly weaker that's a fact by now. Which game is impressive looking (its next gen, if a game can't even handle 1080p its an automatic failure to impress)? Not a single game looks good unless Ryse: Son of 900p is what impress you. And don't tell me you and other lems aren't hyping Quatum Flop cgi as gameplay because i've seen dozens upon dozens of lems seriously bragging about what was shown as gameplay which is :lol: x2 because achieving this kind of visuals with a 7790 is LOL gl to you bro

silversix_

Lets just say I heard this all before near the start of many past gens and the latest being this gen when many like yourself convinced themselves in 2006/2006 that PS3 was a super computer and would wipe the floor with 360 & Wii at launch both in performance & sales :o How's all that work out? :o

Probably best to be a wait and see kinda gamer before calling systems & games flops before the have even hit the street. ;)

we know the specs now, there's no magic sauce that will be unlocked in the future. what you have is what you get and what's inside xbone is weak. doesn't matter if x1 sells as pathetically as wiiu or as well as a ps2, its still a weak system with poor exclusives here to stay for the next 10 years.

I just know I wasting mah time but okay, everyone knew in late 2006/2007 what the HW specs for both 360/PS3 and on paper PS3 > 360 but that didn't stop Gears launching in 2006 from besting anything on PS3 in the first few years. Anyhoo, I'll do what I always do and wait & see before talking so diffinitive about what are surely unknowns at this time - mah Magic 8 Ball & Crystal Ball are in need of repair ATM. :P

Avatar image for TheKingIAm
TheKingIAm

1531

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19 TheKingIAm
Member since 2013 • 1531 Posts
I actually read it. PS4 is still a better design
Avatar image for inggrish
inggrish

10503

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#20 inggrish
Member since 2005 • 10503 Posts

[QUOTE="silversix_"]

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]Lets just say I heard this all before near the start of many past gens and the latest being this gen when many like yourself convinced themselves in 2006/2006 that PS3 was a super computer and would wipe the floor with 360 & Wii at launch both in performance & sales :o How's all that work out? :o

Probably best to be a wait and see kinda gamer before calling systems & games flops before the have even hit the street. ;)

SecretPolice

we know the specs now, there's no magic sauce that will be unlocked in the future. what you have is what you get and what's inside xbone is weak. doesn't matter if x1 sells as pathetically as wiiu or as well as a ps2, its still a weak system with poor exclusives here to stay for the next 10 years.

I just know I wasting mah time but okay, everyone knew in late 2006/2007 what the HW specs for both 360/PS3 and on paper PS3 > 360 but that didn't stop Gears launching in 2006 from besting anything on PS3 in the first few years. Anyhoo, I'll do what I always do and wait & see before talking so diffinitive about what are surely unknowns at this time - mah Magic 8 Ball & Crystal Ball are in need of repair ATM. :P

 

Oh, I have a spare crystal ball, want to borrow it?

Avatar image for timbers_WSU
timbers_WSU

6076

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 0

#21 timbers_WSU
Member since 2012 • 6076 Posts

[QUOTE="Heil68"][QUOTE="SecretPolice"]Same thing they said this gen with the supposedly weaker 360.... eat teh lems dust mofo. :twisted:

SecretPolice

Great! That means Sony will *again* give us a unprecedented amount of GOTY exclusives, a 10/10 game and 2 top 5 games of ALL time. Damn, feels good I got my PS4 pre-order in. Did you get yours? Greatness awaits. Sony. PS4.

You always do that knowing after reading, I always throw up a lil in mah mouth... Yuck. :P

He has did the same thing for over a year. He wants to be ispeakfact so bad it isn't funny. He just comes across as a jackass.
Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33798

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#22 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33798 Posts

I just know I wasting mah time but okay, everyone knew in late 2006/2007 what the HW specs for both 360/PS3 and on paper PS3 > 360 but that didn't stop Gears launching in 2006 from besting anything on PS3 in the first few years. Anyhoo, I'll do what I always do and wait & see before talking so diffinitive about what are surely unknowns at this time - mah Magic 8 Ball & Crystal Ball are in need of repair ATM. :P

SecretPolice

 

The true story..

 

MS anounce a 1TF xbox 360 on may 12 2005,the PS3 spec were unknown,sony comes latter and claim 2 TF both = PR sh** and lies.

The xbox had a stronger GPU,the PS3 a stronger and more capable CPU,that was the scenario.

And while nothing beat gears on 2006,on 2007 Uncharted pulled Gears from the top,after that the PS3 did not look back and you know it.

And lastly comparing last gen to this gen is silly,different hardware to the extreme,this time GPU and CPU from the same company faster ram on PS4 and easy to work with hardware on PS4 as well,not to mention stroger GPU.

Unlike last time this time developers don't have to learn magic to code PS4 games hell some claim is even easier than on xbox one,while having a stronger more capable GPU do the math any advantage the xbox had last gen loss it,even easy of coding..

Avatar image for SecretPolice
SecretPolice

45737

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 45737 Posts

[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]

I just know I wasting mah time but okay, everyone knew in late 2006/2007 what the HW specs for both 360/PS3 and on paper PS3 > 360 but that didn't stop Gears launching in 2006 from besting anything on PS3 in the first few years. Anyhoo, I'll do what I always do and wait & see before talking so diffinitive about what are surely unknowns at this time - mah Magic 8 Ball & Crystal Ball are in need of repair ATM. :P

tormentos

The true story..

MS anounce a 1TF xbox 360 on may 12 2005,the PS3 spec were unknown,sony comes latter and claim 2 TF both = PR sh** and lies.

The xbox had a stronger GPU,the PS3 a stronger and more capable CPU,that was the scenario.

And while nothing beat gears on 2006,on 2007 Uncharted pulled Gears from the top,after that the PS3 did not look back and you know it.

And lastly comparing last gen to this gen is silly,different hardware to the extreme,this time GPU and CPU from the same company faster ram on PS4 and easy to work with hardware on PS4 as well,not to mention stroger GPU.

Unlike last time this time developers don't have to learn magic to code PS4 games hell some claim is even easier than on xbox one,while having a stronger more capable GPU do the math any advantage the xbox had last gen loss it,even easy of coding..

Eh, I haven;t the Patience nor time as much as you and ron :P so I'll just say, just wow, Sony announces a new system and all in a sudden you guys throw the PS3 under the buss when all this gen you all had claimed the PS3 soooo superior :shock: I guess I shouldn't be shocked this being SW and all. :?

Oh and no, Gears wasn't beat until Gears 2 and to this day, all considered, Halo 4 is king on consoles though it's by no means the best Halo as Most of us know, pretty graphics aren't the be all, end all when talking gaming. :P

Avatar image for Wickerman777
Wickerman777

2164

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#24 Wickerman777
Member since 2013 • 2164 Posts

You are a day late and a dollar short.

 

The best parts out of that interview are.

 

New word for weak = balance balance balance even when the system more unbalance than the competition system.

Gimped 7790 confirmed to be the GPU on the xbox one.

Memory will be 140 to 150 GB/s not 204GB/s.

GDDR5 is bad some how.

MS biggest reason for ESRAM + DDR3 = cheaper.

MS claiming that 14 CU is the right balance but they only have 12 CU 2 disable.

MS claim that sony agree with them based on Vgleaks wrong info about the PS4 been 14+4 CU.

MS wanting to imply that more CU mean less performance do to diminishing returns.

 

That is about it.

tormentos

Yeah, they used the word balance repeatedly. But it's bs, damage control. I don't believe them when they say they chose DDR3 and ESRAM because of cost and it being a natural evolution of 360. I think it was all about them feeling they had to have 8 gigs because of all the multimedia stuff they wanted to do and 8 gigs of GDDR5 wasn't a sure thing. Then there was the bs about a slight overclock being better than adding CUs. First of all I don't believe they could have added CUs so easily (And if you could why not add them AND do the upclock?) but even if they could have it's silly to say that a 53 mhz upclock is better than that. They say it wouldn't have been balanced that way. Well duh, if you add any CUs ya also need to add some ROPs and some of the other stuff ya cheaped out on to go along with it. I don't disagree that they did as good a job with DDR3, ESRAM, 12 CUs and 16 ROPs as they probably could have but the system simply needs more of that stuff than what it has. PS4 probably isn't 50% more powerful but it's at least 33% more powerful and no spin is gonna change that.

Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33798

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33798 Posts

Eh, I haven;t the Patience nor time as much as you and ron :P so I'll just say, just wow, Sony announces a new system and all in a sudden you guys throw the PS3 under the buss when all this gen you all had claimed the PS3 soooo superior :shock: I guess I shouldn't be shocked this being SW and all. :?

Oh and no, Gears wasn't beat until Gears 2 and to this day, all considered, Halo 4 is king on consoles though it's by no means the best Halo as Most of us know, pretty graphics aren't the be all, end all when talking gaming. :P

SecretPolice

 

Yeah mayeb you forgot the countless xbox 360 is superior theads based on a missing patch of grass on the PS3 version.:roll:

 

Gears of war was topped by Uncharted saying nother wise is just fanmboy denial.

 

Halo 4 is meh and has sh** on Uncharted 3 or The last of us.

Avatar image for Gue1
Gue1

12171

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 7

User Lists: 0

#26 Gue1
Member since 2004 • 12171 Posts

I wonder if this really an engineer that is there to explain stuff or to damage control. The guy went thought the entire article saying that the XB1 has 14 CUs and then he mention that the PS4 only has 4 more... But on that same piece he says that 2 are disabled, so if the XB1 only has 12 CUs and the PS4 has 18, which is 6 more, right? Why he keeps saying that the XB1 has 14? Does this guy think we are idiots?

 

I think the first requirement to work at MS is being a shameless bastard and a compulsive liar. And not to mention that the guy believes that a 6.6% clock speed increment gives the XB1 better performance than having 2 additional CUs (50mhz increment [from 800mhz base I believe?] > 128 stream processors)... Is he for real? Is he really an engineer? :o

Avatar image for daveg1
daveg1

20405

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#27 daveg1
Member since 2005 • 20405 Posts
they focused too much on the media and kinect bull crap! sony gets my money this gen..
Avatar image for redikan
redikan

144

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 0

#28 redikan
Member since 2004 • 144 Posts

Halo 4 is meh and has sh** on Uncharted 3 or The last of us.

tormentos
Whoa you are a hard core mutha, admitting a meh Halo took a sh** on Uncharted 3 and TLOU.
Avatar image for tormentos
tormentos

33798

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29 tormentos
Member since 2003 • 33798 Posts

[QUOTE="tormentos"]

Halo 4 is meh and has sh** on Uncharted 3 or The last of us.

redikan

Whoa you are a hard core mutha, admitting a meh Halo took a sh** on Uncharted 3 and TLOU.

 

Lets smoke another one bro..:lol:

Avatar image for stereointegrity
stereointegrity

12151

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30 stereointegrity
Member since 2007 • 12151 Posts
INB4 Rons Secret Sauce Recipe
Avatar image for percech
percech

5237

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31 percech
Member since 2011 • 5237 Posts
RIP Sony. :)
Avatar image for Kaz_Son
Kaz_Son

1389

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32 Kaz_Son
Member since 2013 • 1389 Posts
INB4 Rons Secret Sauce Recipe stereointegrity
:o "b..bu but teh secret sauce!" You know it's coming.
Avatar image for KungfuKitten
KungfuKitten

27389

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 42

User Lists: 0

#33 KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

It's a hilarious article. All the excuses they make. Very creative though.

Avatar image for Giancar
Giancar

19160

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#34 Giancar
Member since 2006 • 19160 Posts
[QUOTE="stereointegrity"]INB4 Rons Secret Sauce Recipe Kaz_Son
:o "b..bu but teh secret sauce!" You know it's coming.

What's the secret sauce? The 12 GB RAM or the double GPU?
Avatar image for Kaz_Son
Kaz_Son

1389

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35 Kaz_Son
Member since 2013 • 1389 Posts

[QUOTE="Kaz_Son"][QUOTE="stereointegrity"]INB4 Rons Secret Sauce Recipe Giancar
:o "b..bu but teh secret sauce!" You know it's coming.

What's the secret sauce? The 12 GB RAM or the double GPU?

Teh 12GB RAM. Also, MS is hiding the hawaii gpu @20nm. They cannot talk about this until AMD reveals it first. Sony paid AMD 100mill to delay the reveal of the volcanic island gpus. The 27th is the date. ^ ^ :lol: Believe or not I saw a lemming on Gametrailers forums actually saying this

Avatar image for Mr-Kutaragi
Mr-Kutaragi

2466

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36 Mr-Kutaragi
Member since 2013 • 2466 Posts
MS Foundry play defense force again. Leadbetter deserves humanitarian award from Bill Gates from becoming one man propaganda machine. He already lose credibility when latest numbers debunk his claims.
Avatar image for mitu123
mitu123

155290

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 32

User Lists: 0

#37 mitu123
Member since 2006 • 155290 Posts


But yeah, the power itself has little relevence in the whole scheme of things. I mean look at what the PS3 managed to produce graphics wise with a stupidly weak graphics processor.

I do look forward to seeing what the X1 can achieve a couple years down the line :)

_Matt_

Same, it'll have great looking games, though not up to PS4.

Avatar image for AmazonTreeBoa
AmazonTreeBoa

16745

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#38 AmazonTreeBoa
Member since 2011 • 16745 Posts
SecretPolice
I thought you were a mod? :shock:
Avatar image for Tessellation
Tessellation

9297

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9297 Posts
[QUOTE="SecretPolice"]AmazonTreeBoa
I thought you were a mod? :shock:

he is just a power ranger.
Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#40 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts
INB4 Rons Secret Sauce Recipe stereointegrity
X1 doesn't have any secret sauce i.e. refer to prototype-7850 with 12 CUs as an example.
Avatar image for ronvalencia
ronvalencia

29612

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#41 ronvalencia
Member since 2008 • 29612 Posts
[QUOTE="tormentos"]

You are a day late and a dollar short.

 

The best parts out of that interview are.

 

New word for weak = balance balance balance even when the system more unbalance than the competition system.

Gimped 7790 confirmed to be the GPU on the xbox one.

Memory will be 140 to 150 GB/s not 204GB/s.

GDDR5 is bad some how.

MS biggest reason for ESRAM + DDR3 = cheaper.

MS claiming that 14 CU is the right balance but they only have 12 CU 2 disable.

MS claim that sony agree with them based on Vgleaks wrong info about the PS4 been 14+4 CU.

MS wanting to imply that more CU mean less performance do to diminishing returns.

 

That is about it.

It's 12 CU @ 853Mhz equipped GCN with faster memory setup (when compared to 7790) i.e. refer to result from prototype 7850 with 12 CUs + faster memory.
Avatar image for Tessellation
Tessellation

9297

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#42 Tessellation
Member since 2009 • 9297 Posts
damn poor basement dweller they suddenly think that an engineer word = not valid,but a random forum nobody with no life that lives 24/7 here = legit :cool:
Avatar image for ReadingRainbow4
ReadingRainbow4

18733

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#43 ReadingRainbow4
Member since 2012 • 18733 Posts

[QUOTE="LA-Nighthawk"]INB4 cows invade this thread in droves and make it unreadable like they do with every thread on SW. Nengo_Flow

iSpxXFnwJh21z.gif

rofl.

Is that an ocean of Nighthawk's tears? 

Avatar image for jer_1
jer_1

7451

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#44 jer_1
Member since 2003 • 7451 Posts
Must be the next daily piece of MS propaganda. Actually I'd say this is more like the 20-day's worth, "wall-o-text" version of the daily propaganda.
Avatar image for Mr-Kutaragi
Mr-Kutaragi

2466

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#45 Mr-Kutaragi
Member since 2013 • 2466 Posts
Leadbetter is MS secret sauce. :lol:
Avatar image for XBOunity
XBOunity

3837

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#46 XBOunity
Member since 2013 • 3837 Posts

Leadbetter is MS secret sauce. :lol:Mr-Kutaragi

Neogaf is sonys secret sauce

Avatar image for Jonwh18
Jonwh18

9350

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#47 Jonwh18
Member since 2009 • 9350 Posts

Your entire arguement is based on a logical fallacy: appeal to ignorance. 

Sure just because the games aren't out yet we don't know 100% for certain that the PS4 game will look better and play better then the X1 games. But it's a reasonable conclusion that they will. Attempting to convince yourself otherwise is just denial at theis point. 

It's not as if graphics matter that much though. In the end gameplay and art style are far more important. 

Avatar image for blackace
blackace

23576

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#48 blackace
Member since 2002 • 23576 Posts
Its the weakest next gen system and if it was downgraded a little more it would've reached last gen level of power *cough* WiiU. Not a single, i repeat, not a single announced game looks half impressive on X1, its so bad that lems tell to themselves that Quantum Flop CGI is the actual gameplay, its pretty sad and funny at the same time.silversix_
What I find hilarious is NONE OF THE PS4 GAMES look 50% more powerful then the best game on the XB1. NONE. Not even close.
Avatar image for Cali3350
Cali3350

16134

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#49 Cali3350
Member since 2003 • 16134 Posts

[QUOTE="silversix_"]Its the weakest next gen system and if it was downgraded a little more it would've reached last gen level of power *cough* WiiU. Not a single, i repeat, not a single announced game looks half impressive on X1, its so bad that lems tell to themselves that Quantum Flop CGI is the actual gameplay, its pretty sad and funny at the same time.blackace
What I find hilarious is NONE OF THE PS4 GAMES look 50% more powerful then the best game on the XB1. NONE. Not even close.

 

Because 50% power isnt all that much in a game.  In practical terms its the difference between enabling SSAO or not.  Sure, SSAO looks nice, but its not the end of the world.  People are way overthinking in their minds exactly what 50% more raw power (in the GPU means).

Avatar image for superclocked
superclocked

5864

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#50 superclocked
Member since 2009 • 5864 Posts
[QUOTE="silversix_"]Its the weakest next gen system and if it was downgraded a little more it would've reached last gen level of power *cough* WiiU. Not a single, i repeat, not a single announced game looks half impressive on X1, its so bad that lems tell to themselves that Quantum Flop CGI is the actual gameplay, its pretty sad and funny at the same time.blackace
What I find hilarious is NONE OF THE PS4 GAMES look 50% more powerful then the best game on the XB1. NONE. Not even close.

Don't let the supposed internet hardware experts and desperate journalists fool you. The PS4 is not 50% more powerful than the XB1. The performance of the two systems is nearly equal...