Do we not count Downloadable 360 games AS games? (360 wins for 2008)

Do we or don't we? As far as I know they're games, and a game is a game.

360 wins for 2008.

Braid AAAE
Gears of War AAAE
Geometry Wars 2 AAAE
Fable 2 AAE
Castle Crashers AAE
Rez HD AAE
Tales of Vesperia AAE
Viva Piñata 2 AAE
Ninja Gaiden II AAE

Personally, I'd count them. Of course I can name as many reasons to count them as games as people can name reasons to not count them. But since counting them as games would hurt two System Wars factions directly, don't count on them being "counted" any time soon.

Also, wow I am really redundant.

I dont see why downloadable games should count and be listed beside a game the caliber of Gears of War just because it's score.

To me, a Braid 9.5 is in no way close to a Gears of War 2 9.0. Production values, fun factor, lasting appeal, etc.

I think downloadable games should be compared to other downloadable games... not full games.

Can't really compare a $10 game to a $60 one.

If Braid cost $60 it would not have got 9.5.

Also: Castle Crashers deserves AAA.

I dont see why downloadable games should count and be listed beside a game the caliber of Gears of War just because it's score.

To me, a Braid 9.5 is in no way close to a Gears of War 2 9.0. Production values, fun factor, lasting appeal, etc.

I think downloadable games should be compared to other downloadable games... not full games.

carljohnson3456

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

I dont see why downloadable games should count and be listed beside a game the caliber of Gears of War just because it's score.

To me, a Braid 9.5 is in no way close to a Gears of War 2 9.0. Production values, fun factor, lasting appeal, etc.

I think downloadable games should be compared to other downloadable games... not full games.

Skittles_McGee

But to me, a "10" for Arcade games is no way equal to a "10" for a full game.

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

I dont see why downloadable games should count and be listed beside a game the caliber of Gears of War just because it's score.

To me, a Braid 9.5 is in no way close to a Gears of War 2 9.0. Production values, fun factor, lasting appeal, etc.

I think downloadable games should be compared to other downloadable games... not full games.

carljohnson3456

But to me, a "10" for Arcade games is no way equal to a "10" for a full game.

Depends, games like warhawk, wipeout HD, socom, gt:prolouge should be counted, they are on the scale of games you by in stores, but games such as pixeljunk monsters or braid should not be counted.Sully28

Braid is on a similar scale to.. Heavenly Sword. As far as gameplay length goes anyhow.

As a proud 360 owner I don't think the 2008 line up is bad enough to where we have to count PSP and IPhone quality games in order for the line up to look good.

Thats what most of these downloadable games are. This is like when the SNES had that gameboy adapter. When you have to count gameboy games as SNES games in order to look good when compared to the Genesis... what does that say? I had fun with Lost Odyssey, Fallout 3 is multiplat but great, Tales of Vesperia looks like alot of fun, Mirror's Edge is multi but hella fun, Banjo is gonna be fun, I don't play shooters (unless its an RPG blend) but Gears 2 has me slightly interested, Prince of Persia is multiplat but looks to be good, Fable 2 is good...

We don't need to count Gameboy games. Lets not belittle ourselves like that.

Dude... are you serious? You sound like a cow pretending to be a lemming and just saying some straight up nonsense/flame-bait.

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"] But take into account that no matter what, when you're judging a game in comparison to other games on the system, regardless of whether its downloadable or not. And most of the time, you don't mean to. Its subconscious. So in that sense, the games are getting these ratings even when compared to "full games".
munu9

But really, these arcades games aren't even in the same dimension... literally :? They're 2D games, we've gotten past 2D games being our main focus a long time ago. We now expect a full game to be 3D and only ignore the fact that arcade games are 2D because they are arcade games and cost less.

No, we don't. Standards are different between retail and Xbox Live Arcade games.

[QUOTE="carljohnson3456"][QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

I dont see why downloadable games should count and be listed beside a game the caliber of Gears of War just because it's score.

To me, a Braid 9.5 is in no way close to a Gears of War 2 9.0. Production values, fun factor, lasting appeal, etc.

I think downloadable games should be compared to other downloadable games... not full games.

Skittles_McGee

But to me, a "10" for Arcade games is no way equal to a "10" for a full game.

In my opinion it is.

[QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="carljohnson3456"][QUOTE="Skittles_McGee"][QUOTE="carljohnson3456"]

I dont see why downloadable games should count and be listed beside a game the caliber of Gears of War just because it's score.

To me, a Braid 9.5 is in no way close to a Gears of War 2 9.0. Production values, fun factor, lasting appeal, etc.

I think downloadable games should be compared to other downloadable games... not full games.

carljohnson3456

But to me, a "10" for Arcade games is no way equal to a "10" for a full game.

In my opinion it is.

[QUOTE="user_nat"]

[QUOTE="Sully28"]Depends, games like warhawk, wipeout HD, socom, gt:prolouge should be counted, they are on the scale of games you by in stores, but games such as pixeljunk monsters or braid should not be counted.Senor_Kami

Braid is on a similar scale to.. Heavenly Sword. As far as gameplay length goes anyhow.

Dude... are you serious? You sound like a cow pretending to be a lemming and just saying some straight up nonsense/flame-bait.

Not really. Braid caps out between 5 - 6 hours from beginning to end unless you're rushing through it and Heavenly Sword is about 7 - 8 hours.

I'm not interested in getting involved in this particular debate, as, frankly, I don't really give a rat's ass about it, but I would like to take this moment to say that, in my estimation, Braid is one of the best games of this generation, and one of the best games of its kind ever made, right up there with Another World.

It may not have versus modes, or co-op, or bots, or a 40 hour campaign stuffed to the brim with filler and repetition, but it is incredibly unique, and it does have quality core design, clever puzzles, beautiful art and music, and interesting, multi-layered, thematic material and storytelling.

So fine, cover your ears, close your eyes, and chant "does not count, does not count, does not count" as loudly as you need to in order to make yourself feel better; I don't care.

But know this: Braid is an instant classic, the kind of game I can see myself playing years down the road and saying "damn, what a wonderful game" whilst all sorts of generic "real games" with the kickass deathmatch modes and the big asplosions have dissapeared from my memory, like oh so many drops in a bucket.

Which is why this is all rather pointless. Its all about opinion when it comes down to it. So essentially, we're getting nowhere.
Skittles_McGee

lol So very true.

[QUOTE="user_nat"]

[QUOTE="Sully28"]Depends, games like warhawk, wipeout HD, socom, gt:prolouge should be counted, they are on the scale of games you by in stores, but games such as pixeljunk monsters or braid should not be counted.Senor_Kami

Braid is on a similar scale to.. Heavenly Sword. As far as gameplay length goes anyhow.

Dude... are you serious? You sound like a cow pretending to be a lemming and just saying some straight up nonsense/flame-bait.

Ok well it obviously isn't the same scale entirely, seeing as Heavenly Sword wasn't made by one person.

However, IN MY OPINION, Braid has better gameplay and is equally as long. Which is what I meant by them being games of similar scale. Wasn't bashing on HS.. was just the shortest game I could think of with pretty much no replay value.

Can't really compare a $10 game to a $60 one.

If Braid cost $60 it would not have got 9.5.

Also: Castle Crashers deserves AAA.

user_nat

Then technically the PC scoreboard is full of games inflated by the fact that they are $15 episodic content or $30 expansion packs. You can't compare a $15 game of sam and max to Crysis now? And a $30 expansion pack can't be compared to an episode of sam and max respectivly.

Not really. Braid caps out between 5 - 6 hours from beginning to end unless you're rushing through it and Heavenly Sword is about 7 - 8 hours.

The_Game21x

While true, the original poster is clearly trying to make a comparison that the because of gameplay length, the two are somehow in the same category, of similar quality, or should be counted in the same category. Thats whats flame bait and nonsense about it.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]

[QUOTE="user_nat"]

[QUOTE="Sully28"]Depends, games like warhawk, wipeout HD, socom, gt:prolouge should be counted, they are on the scale of games you by in stores, but games such as pixeljunk monsters or braid should not be counted.Senor_Kami

Braid is on a similar scale to.. Heavenly Sword. As far as gameplay length goes anyhow.

Dude... are you serious? You sound like a cow pretending to be a lemming and just saying some straight up nonsense/flame-bait.

Not really. Braid caps out between 5 - 6 hours from beginning to end unless you're rushing through it and Heavenly Sword is about 7 - 8 hours.

While true, you're clearly trying to make a comparison that the because of gameplay length, the two are somehow in the same category, of similar quality, or should be counted in the same category. Thats whats flame bait and nonsense about it.

Sooo yeah... reading... its pretty awesome. :D

I'm not interested in getting involved in this particular debate, as, frankly, I don't really give a rat's ass about it, but I would like to take this moment to say that, in my estimation, Braid is one of the best games of this generation, and one of the best games of its kind ever made, right up there with Another World.

It may not have versus modes, or co-op, or bots, or a 40 hour campaign stuffed to the brim with filler and repetition, but it is incredibly unique, and it does have quality core design, clever puzzles, beautiful art and music, and interesting, multi-layered, thematic material and storytelling.

So fine, cover your ears, close your eyes, and chant "does not count, does not count, does not count" as loudly as you need to in order to make yourself feel better; I don't care.

But know this: Braid is an instant classic, the kind of game I can see myself playing years down the road and saying "damn, what a wonderful game" whilst all sorts of generic "real games" with the kickass deathmatch modes and the big asplosions have dissapeared from my memory, like oh so many drops in a bucket.

jethrovegas

I can respect that.

No, we don't. Standards are different between retail and Xbox Live Arcade games.

The_Game21x

Why should that make a difference? The plain simple fact is, these games are only available on the 360 platform. Downloadable or physical disc makes no difference, they still require the given console to play, therefore are still exclusive. The same would apply to PSN games that you can't get on any other platform.

This of course all applies to original games, not retro ports.

I dont see why downloadable games should count and be listed beside a game the caliber of Gears of War just because it's score.

To me, a Braid 9.5 is in no way close to a Gears of War 2 9.0. Production values, fun factor, lasting appeal, etc.

I think downloadable games should be compared to other downloadable games... not full games.

carljohnson3456

Braid is on a similar scale to.. Heavenly Sword.As far as gameplay length goes anyhow.

user_nat

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

Not really. Braid caps out between 5 - 6 hours from beginning to end unless you're rushing through it and Heavenly Sword is about 7 - 8 hours.

Senor_Kami

While true, you're clearly trying to make a comparison that the because of gameplay length, the two are somehow in the same category, of similar quality, or should be counted in the same category. Thats whats flame bait and nonsense about it.

Except it was explicitly stated that we're discussing only the gameplay length. I even bolded it for you.

Sooo yeah... reading... its pretty awesome. :D

Skittles_McGee

While true, you're clearly trying to make a comparison that the because of gameplay length, the two are somehow in the same category, of similar quality, or should be counted in the same category. Thats whats flame bait and nonsense about it.

Senor_Kami

Indeed, reading is pretty awesome. And regardless, it wouldn't matter because you're still trying to imply that because of the game length, the two games are of the same quality, the same category or should be counted as the same.

And if you weren't implying that you just made a totally random comment with zero connection to the thread at all.

now we're bringing downloadable games into this now? what's this desperation i smell. Calm down, it's only a console.eklineage

Couldn't insisting they should not be counted also be seen as fanboy desperation?

The 360 always wins doesn't it? One way or the other the success of any other platform has to be dowplayed somehow to claim victory for the 360, no matter what.

I personally think there is a difference in quality. Its easier for a $10 game to get a 9 than a $60 game to get a 9. Gears2 getting a 9 is a far bigger achievement than a game like FLOW getting a 9. I think (and Im not sure here) that GS takes into account the price and the type of game it is and rates accordingly. So like how they would never hold a PS2 game up to the same standards as a PS3, they would never hold a downloadable game up to the same standards as a full-fledged $60 game.

I may be wrong...

[QUOTE="eklineage"]now we're bringing downloadable games into this now? what's this desperation i smell. Calm down, it's only a console.user_nat

Couldn't insisting they should not be counted also be seen as fanboy desperation?

Hehe, the real issue is that only 360 downloadable games will count. If someone listed Mario Brother 3 as a AAA Wii title and was like, "the Wii had like 30 AAA titles this year" you guys would be up in flames screaming, "no no, DLC doesn't count."

And if someone said, "but you can only play it on the Wii" you'd go insane and enter some sort of lemming berserker rage and your head would explode like that girl on Fringe.

Indeed, reading is pretty awesome. And regardless, it wouldn't matter because you're still trying to imply that because of the game length, the two games are of the same quality, the same category or should be counted as the same.

And if you weren't implying that you just made a totally random comment with zero connection to the thread at all.

Senor_Kami

I assume you're directing this post largely at my original comparison of Braid and HS. If you read the post I was quoting when I made it, it probably wouldn't look as random. Seeing as that post seemed to be comparing retail games that can be downloaded and downloadable games.

The 360 always wins doesn't it? One way or the other the success of any other platform has to be dowplayed somehow to claim victory for the 360, no matter what.

AgentA-Mi6

Pretty much what cows have done to claim "victory" despite PS3 still being in 3rd place.

* 360's library is bigger - they had a 1 year head start and that 1st year doesn't count
* 360 has a larger selection of quality games - doesn't matter because most of them are "overrated" anyway
* 360 has the largest diversity - oh we'll just spin it and apply some broken logic to make it a "shooter console"

Overall, I think arcade and full retail games should not be compared. We could go even a stell lower and refer to simple online flash games. There are some pretty fun flash games. Some very impressive puzzle games and platformers. And although a website might rate them 9.5/10. Would that online flash game be comparable to braid or geometry wars?

[QUOTE="AgentA-Mi6"]

The 360 always wins doesn't it? One way or the other the success of any other platform has to be dowplayed somehow to claim victory for the 360, no matter what.

AdobeArtist

Pretty much what cows have done to claim "victory" despite PS3 still being in 3rd place.

* 360's library is bigger - they had a 1 year head start and that 1st year doesn't count
* 360 has a larger selection of quality games - doesn't matter because most of them are "overrated" anyway
* 360 has the largest diversity - oh we'll just spin it and apply some broken logic to make it a "shooter console"

Wiat wait wait here THAT ONE YEAR HEAD START IN SALES DOES NOT COUNT? Now I heard everything...

360 has a larger selection of games becuase it was out for one year.... You don't release a console without games for it... smart guy...

[QUOTE="AgentA-Mi6"]

The 360 always wins doesn't it? One way or the other the success of any other platform has to be dowplayed somehow to claim victory for the 360, no matter what.

AdobeArtist

Pretty much what cows have done to claim "victory" despite PS3 still being in 3rd place.

* 360's library is bigger - they had a 1 year head start and that 1st year doesn't count
* 360 has a larger selection of quality games - doesn't matter because most of them are "overrated" anyway
* 360 has the largest diversity - oh we'll just spin it and apply some broken logic to make it a "shooter console"

The Ps3 isnt being crowned winner of this gen dude, just 2008

[QUOTE="AgentA-Mi6"]

The 360 always wins doesn't it? One way or the other the success of any other platform has to be dowplayed somehow to claim victory for the 360, no matter what.

AdobeArtist

Pretty much what cows have done to claim "victory" despite PS3 still being in 3rd place.

* 360's library is bigger - they had a 1 year head start and that 1st year doesn't count
* 360 has a larger selection of quality games - doesn't matter because most of them are "overrated" anyway
* 360 has the largest diversity - oh we'll just spin it and apply some broken logic to make it a "shooter console"

Cows arent claiming overall victory, they are claiming that 2008 was the PS3s year, much like 2007 was the X360s year. This year PS3 seems to have pumped out more quality exclusives than the X360 (according to GS which is all that matters on GS :P)

[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]

Indeed, reading is pretty awesome. And regardless, it wouldn't matter because you're still trying to imply that because of the game length, the two games are of the same quality, the same category or should be counted as the same.

And if you weren't implying that you just made a totally random comment with zero connection to the thread at all.

user_nat

I assume you're directing this post largely at my original comparison of Braid and HS. If you read the post I was quoting when I made it, it probably wouldn't look as random. Seeing as that post seemed to be comparing retail games that can be downloaded and downloadable games.

So you are comparing them and saying that because of game length...

You're flip flopping like John Kerry. I say you're comparing them and you say you aren't. I say, "so you're just making random statements?" and you respond saying that you were comparing the two.

Choose one. Its hard to have a reasonable discussion when one party keeps pulling a 180 every time you say something.

[QUOTE="user_nat"][QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]

Indeed, reading is pretty awesome. And regardless, it wouldn't matter because you're still trying to imply that because of the game length, the two games are of the same quality, the same category or should be counted as the same.

And if you weren't implying that you just made a totally random comment with zero connection to the thread at all.

Senor_Kami

I assume you're directing this post largely at my original comparison of Braid and HS. If you read the post I was quoting when I made it, it probably wouldn't look as random. Seeing as that post seemed to be comparing retail games that can be downloaded and downloadable games.

So you are comparing them and saying that because of game length...

You're flip flopping like John Kerry. I say you're comparing them and you say you aren't. I say, "so you're just making random statements?" and you respond saying that you were comparing the two.

Choose one. Its hard to have a reasonable discussion when one party keeps pulling a 180 every time you say something.

Lol, sorry. I don't think I'm all over the place.

Anyhow, the post I originally quoted said games such as "warhawk, wipeout HD, socom, gt:prolouge" should be counted towards the total list because they were on the scale of games you buy in stores. Now I simply drew the comparison that as far as LENGTH goes HS and Braid are fairly similar.

Never did I say they were comparable in any other way. Gameplay is subjective and really can't be compared between games, so if you enjoy one more then the other: good for you. I didn't say the games were comparable in graphics, story or anything else for that matter.

Anyhow, Overall point is.. you can have downloadable games that can be just as good as a retail game (good being opinion, it might not look as pretty, but you can have more fun with it). This applies to other games also.. like AudioSurf on Steam, great game.. but its not counted just because you can download it, however if it were made available in stores tomorow and got the same score, it would count. That seems silly to me.

Random thought: Why isn't Ratchet and Clank Quest for Booty seen as a "retailish" game (ala GTPro), its pretty much exactly the same as Tools of Destruction.

Rez isn't exclusive.foxhound_fox

Rez HD is.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]Rez isn't exclusive.DC-Dan

Rez HD is.

Different name, higher resolution.. same game.

(Exactly like Ninja Gaiden Stigma)