Does nobody else see the irony?

Basically a typical day on SW.

Koalakommander

Cows failing to comprehend the concept of option over having something forced on you and trying to claim ownage. Yes a typical day in SW...

choices are funny? :?CaseyWegner

Marketing research shows that consumers dislike having too many choices - you just have to offer them a good product, and Sony spent the first part of this generation trying to hock "New Coke". Can't wait to see them re-introduce "Playstation Classic" in the form of a Dualshock-equipped PS3 sporting Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid... reminds me of... 1998.

[QUOTE="Koalakommander"]

Basically a typical day on SW.

DXGreat1_HGL

Cows failing to comprehend the concept of option over having something forced on you and trying to claim ownage. Yes a typical day in SW...

You choose to buy a PS3 with a blu-ray player that has no established game franchises on it yet -- and frankly, nearly 9 million people have chosen to do so.

Hell, I wont get one till 2009.

[QUOTE="Zenfoldor"]

Here is why Lemmings are upset about the new SKU:

A. They think HD drives might be required for some future games.

B. They bought the previous "best" SKU and feel slighted.

C. They feel the increased hard drive capacity is pointless.

D. They feel the price will be extremely high, or at least should be. If its not, then they got cheated by M$ yet again.

E. Either way, the end price for this unit won't be good for Lemmings, because it is easily flamed both ways.

F. People who have actually bought these phars seperately have spent over 1000 dollars on their 360, wasting at least 300 dollars from my and their estimates of the final SKU value.

G. That it took MS putting out its best and most expensive SKU to add a better heating solution.

H. Which means, by implication, that the heating solutions in the current SKUs will eventually lead to RRoD in all current consoles, logically.

I. System maximizers feel they will actually have to buy this new SKU to have the best 360. Thus all 360's sold before are inferior and obsolete.

Frankly, except for the hardiest videophile who hasn't yet bought any next gen console and has infinite amounts of disposable income yet refuses to game on their PC, this new SKU is nothing but bad news for Lemmings, no matter which way you spin it.

Choice is not always good when you contextualize it, like most Sheep, Hermits, and Cows will do on this forum, very easily. I can flame M$ very easily with this new SKU announcment, but I'll save that for when the time is right.

As for myself, I believe:

SKU's are pointless and nothing but a consumer tactic to make people buy multiple units or upgrade.

The cause developers to not make use of many of the existing functions of a system.

This is particularly true in the 360's case, since they use entirely different internal hardware for their different SKU's varying the quality drastically, to the point where certain games are nearly unplayable on lesser units.

SKUs are a particularly disgusting afront to console gaming this generation, integrating them more and more into the realm of computer gaming.

It's reasons like this, that I am glad Nintendo is the market leader once again.

Koalakommander

It will be interesting to see how the ultimate sells. Especially with PS3 gaining software ground this year.

Well, I will predict the ultimate will account for about 6% of weekly 360 hardware sales at its peak, which is a conservative estimate. It is aimed at a more niche' hardcore audience than the rest of the units have been.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]choices are funny? :?subrosian

Marketing research shows that consumers dislike having too many choices - you just have to offer them a good product, and Sony spent the first part of this generation trying to hock "New Coke". Can't wait to see them re-introduce "Playstation Classic" in the form of a Dualshock-equipped PS3 sporting Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid... reminds me of... 1995.

Iono, I always learned the consumers love choice. But obviously this rule changes when it comes to videogame consoles. I think making cheaper versions and bundles to get to a bigger audience is a good idea -- but basically releasing a new console with a generic name spinoff 3 years in? That's not going to go over well.

Here is why Lemmings are upset about the new SKU:

EDITED OUT

Zenfoldor

How are any of those points different for Sony except the RROD parts? People that need to adopt each new SKU can feel free to do so, its pointless. Games play identically on all models. People tha feel slighted by the new SKU can just buy the HD DVD add-on and BAM...you get pretty close.

[QUOTE="papa_smurf_23"]

Lems main bashing point for the ps3 has been the blue-ray/wi-fi/expensive console thing. Mow MS is coming out with a system that has exactly what they were bashing cows for. I find this very funny.

Koalakommander

Probably one of the biggest turn arounds on System Wars, but will be ignored because this place is run by lemmings.

Blu-ray has been the main "weak point" of the PS3 since it was announced and all of a sudden it's OK for the 360.

Its not standard though, which makes all the difference.

maybe if you guys would stop going over the 5 quote limit there wouldn't be a problem. :|CaseyWegner

Sorry about that. I honestly didn't notice. I appreciate the warning.

[QUOTE="Zenfoldor"]

Here is why Lemmings are upset about the new SKU:

EDITED OUT

gromit007

How are any of those points different for Sony except the RROD parts? People that need to adopt each new SKU can feel free to do so, its pointless. Games play identically on all models. People tha feel slighted by the new SKU can just buy the HD DVD add-on and BAM...you get pretty close.

For the record, I'm disgusted by all SKUs.

However, another point that I'm not quite sure on:

Doesn't 360 us differnet motherboards for their different current SKUs? I thought I read as much on wikipedia.

The implication of that is this:

One motherboard is cheaper than the other one.

Therefore, it has some inferiority.

The inferred possibilities are:

The cheaper motherboard either doesn't play games as well.

or

The cheaper motherboard won't last as long.

If the motherboards are identical, then why doesn't Microsoft use the cheaper ones in the more expensive SKUs?

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]choices are funny? :?Koalakommander

Marketing research shows that consumers dislike having too many choices - you just have to offer them a good product, and Sony spent the first part of this generation trying to hock "New Coke". Can't wait to see them re-introduce "Playstation Classic" in the form of a Dualshock-equipped PS3 sporting Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid... reminds me of... 1995.

Iono, I always learned the consumers love choice. But obviously this rule changes when it comes to videogame consoles. I think making cheaper versions and bundles to get to a bigger audience is a good idea -- but basically releasing a new console with a generic name spinoff 3 years in? That's not going to go over well.

Consumers generally like to have a few distinct choices, and do quite poorly when presented with dozens of similar choices. That's why market segmentation is tricky business - when it works well, each user buys the most expensive configuration they feel they need, when it works poorly, people don't buy, and users demand all of the features from each "version" all bundled into one unit at the lowest price - or get frustrated and don't buy at all.

-

You're right though, with consoles & bundles situation - a lot of 360 "Elite" users are going to be annoyed if a "more elite" 360 comes out.

won't bothe me. i don't need wifi and i already bought the external hd-dvd player. CaseyWegner

I can already hear the outcry from Elite owners, we saw it when the Elite was announced, I imagine it will be less serious this time, though I can't imagine what they're going to try to charge for the 320gb hard-drive as a standalone, given they're already trying to pull in $180 on the 120gb.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]won't bothe me. i don't need wifi and i already bought the external hd-dvd player. subrosian

I can already hear the outcry from Elite owners, we saw it when the Elite was announced, I imagine it will be less serious this time, though I can't imagine what they're going to try to charge for the 320gb hard-drive as a standalone, given they're already trying to pull in $180 on the 120gb.

This is where i get confused. If a few average joes on a gaming forum can see how poor MS's plan is, wouldn't you think we're probably wrong about something being as MS is a professional and experienced coropration?

Because I honestly can't see anything positive coming from this. Yeah you might hook a few hardcore video junkies, but I think this too little too late, and is just going to make them lose more money.

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]choices are funny? :?papa_smurf_23

You got to admit though this is pretty good irony. Has this been confirmed yet?

how is it irony at all? is there a non-blu ray ps3 option available?

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]won't bothe me. i don't need wifi and i already bought the external hd-dvd player. Koalakommander

I can already hear the outcry from Elite owners, we saw it when the Elite was announced, I imagine it will be less serious this time, though I can't imagine what they're going to try to charge for the 320gb hard-drive as a standalone, given they're already trying to pull in $180 on the 120gb.

This is where i get confused. If a few average joes on a gaming forum can see how poor MS's plan is, wouldn't you think we're probably wrong about something being as MS is a professional and experienced coropration?

Because I honestly can't see anything positive coming from this. Yeah you might hook a few hardcore video junkies, but I think this too little too late, and is just going to make them lose more money.

To be honest I've never been at all convinced Microsoft has a clue what makes their system popular with the average gamer. The secret to gaming success (financially) in gaming seems to be to make a product that does one function, and does it very well - be it the SNES, the Gameboy, the PS1, or the Wii.

Even the PS2 owes its success primarily to being a solid gaming machine.

Now, there seem to be people at Microsoft who "get it", because they court developers, and make the system relatively accessable and simple for developers to work with - and a platform like LIVE doesn't come into existance by accident... but the execs make poor decisions. They keep trying to make the Xbox 360 into the "center of your home media & entertainment" because they're executives with dollar signs in their eyes - they don't see it like us - they've long ago lost touch with the consumers.

-

So, I think they're blinded - they (the execs) never understood gaming, and push the platform towards a profitable "media center" subscription model, when what gamer's want is a box that runs Halo. You and I both know doing anything else, doing this "digital subscription" focus is going to come back to bite them in the butt, but right now they're pushing for it. I believe digital subscriber and download services are the future, don't get me wrong, but it won't happen on a closed-platform like the 360, and I certainly can't see people wanting to spend another $400+ on a new console (or hard drive) just so they can spend another $30+ a month to get IPTV content.

ok 1- who said a blu ray player is a bad deal, everybody said why isnt there a sku without it. since it hasnt proven itself for gaming

2- Choices are a good thing IMO, i dont want an HDDVD, i actually want a blu ray player, so im glad i can buy a 360 without an HD

3- I dont care for wifi, it sucks for online gaming, im glad I got an Elite.

4- PS3 im buying a 40 gig for MGS 4. It plays PS3 games, 40 gigs is enough since all my multiplats will be 360 for the most part, and i get a blu ray player for my 1080p tv

Now this mutliple sku stuff does get annoying, but PS3 deserved to be bahsed for FORCING you to buy other stuff along with the gaming console.

Other than that, one must agree that the PS3 at whatever price it has been has been an amazing deal, just expensive.

One of the problems is that Sony tried to force the Blu Ray format on the consumers. This is evident when you see that there is no SKU without the blu ray option.dk_2007

[QUOTE="GanonBuRAP"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="GanonBuRAP"]

Do you moderate this board? I think you do because you're lv 49 and it says MOD under your name, so you MUST have been there when there were a plethora of threads saying bluray was unnecessary, they say HD TVs and Bluray would never catch on, and now that MS has gone the way of Sony with a beefed up HD-ready console, you and all the lems are singing a different tune. You seem to be denying this.

CaseyWegner

it...is...an...option. blu...ray...is...not.

I think I Got modded for talking to you, but anyway, I don't know why you keep bringing the option thing back up. The TC is claiming ownage over the fact that lems bashed bluray, and now, MS is re-inforcing it themselves. Well, HD-DVD. Lems once deemed it unecessary, now all of a sudden, they have a PS3 clone. I guess they should hate on and bash the 360 ultimate right?

i can't believe you still don't get this. hd-dvd is an option. you don't need to get it. blu ray is not an option. you have to pay for it whether you want it or not.

You do realize that if it were a option to get Blu-ray optional, then the PS3 would be pretty much uselessas seeing how it's game format is on a Blu-ray disc. It's not a option, because it's MANDATORY...

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="GanonBuRAP"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="GanonBuRAP"]

Do you moderate this board? I think you do because you're lv 49 and it says MOD under your name, so you MUST have been there when there were a plethora of threads saying bluray was unnecessary, they say HD TVs and Bluray would never catch on, and now that MS has gone the way of Sony with a beefed up HD-ready console, you and all the lems are singing a different tune. You seem to be denying this.

tocool340

it...is...an...option. blu...ray...is...not.

I think I Got modded for talking to you, but anyway, I don't know why you keep bringing the option thing back up. The TC is claiming ownage over the fact that lems bashed bluray, and now, MS is re-inforcing it themselves. Well, HD-DVD. Lems once deemed it unecessary, now all of a sudden, they have a PS3 clone. I guess they should hate on and bash the 360 ultimate right?

i can't believe you still don't get this. hd-dvd is an option. you don't need to get it. blu ray is not an option. you have to pay for it whether you want it or not.

You do realize that if it was a option to get Blu-ray optional, then te PS3 would useless right as seeing how it's game format is on a Blu-ray disc. It's not a option, because it's MANDATORY...

The only reason the PS3's games come on a Blu-Ray disc is because Sony put a BR player in the PS3. The only reason there is a BR player in the PS3 is so Sony can try to force a new movie format on customers. There was absolutely no reason that Sony could not have developed the PS3 around a standard DVD drive. There is also no reason why PS3 games cannot come on a DVD. Sony decided that their customers would pay an outrageous price fora hidef DVD player that plays games. If Microsoft's customers dont want all that, they dont have to buy it.

Four pages of Sony fanboys trying to claim ownage on a SKU that's not even official yet.

Only in SW ;)

Four pages of Sony fanboys trying to claim ownage on a SKU that's not even official yet.

Only in SW ;)

Yellow_Rose

[QUOTE="Danm_999"][QUOTE="papa_smurf_23"]

Lems main bashing point for the ps3 has been the blue-ray/wi-fi/expensive console thing. Mow MS is coming out with a system that has exactly what they were bashing cows for. I find this very funny.

Koalakommander

You shouldn't. See there is a subtle distinction.

With a PS3, you have no choice but to take Blu-ray, it is in all SKUs.

With a 360, you have a choice to take HD DVD, it is in only one SKU.

If you think Lemmings were criticising the PS3 for including Blu-ray, your wrong. They were criticising it for making it mandatory.

So that's the new argument they're using -- priceless.

I always thought it was:

"Putting Blu-Ray was the stupidest mistake ever! No one even has HD-TVs yet and no one needs a blu-ray player yet. None of the games have benifited from it yet either!"

*Bill Gates's annoucment happens*

"oh well you see, it's a great idea -- since we get to choose and all."

To better get the meaning of Leming quotes please try and view them w/out your cow filter on. kthxbye.

Lems main bashing point for the ps3 has been the blue-ray/wi-fi/expensive console thing. Mow MS is coming out with a system that has exactly what they were bashing cows for. I find this very funny.

papa_smurf_23

so m$ is making a new xbox? i want a link

Its amazing how people can't understand that buying a PS3 means you are forced to buy Blue-Ray while buying a 360 you don't need or even have to invest in HD-DVD.

One is forced and another is an option. Do you really think Lemmings are going to buy or even brag about having a format ect that isn't even used for gaming? There is no point.

This would only be ironic if they took all existed 360 SKU's off the market and the only ones offered were HD-DVD enabled 360's. Until then this topic is just pretty funny because some of you just can't grasp a simple concept.

ok 1- who said a blu ray player is a bad deal, everybody said why isnt there a sku without it. since it hasnt proven itself for gaming

2- Choices are a good thing IMO, i dont want an HDDVD, i actually want a blu ray player, so im glad i can buy a 360 without an HD

3- I dont care for wifi, it sucks for online gaming, im glad I got an Elite.

4- PS3 im buying a 40 gig for MGS 4. It plays PS3 games, 40 gigs is enough since all my multiplats will be 360 for the most part, and i get a blu ray player for my 1080p tv

Now this mutliple sku stuff does get annoying, but PS3 deserved to be bahsed for FORCING you to buy other stuff along with the gaming console.

Other than that, one must agree that the PS3 at whatever price it has been has been an amazing deal, just expensive.

jg4xchamp

This argument of "being forced" is getting a little tired and repetitive. It is tiring in the sense that an argument can be made for almost any particular component of a system. Maybe there are 360 and PS3 owners who dont care for online at all and dont need the ethernet ports or wifi. Why should this additional cost been thrown upon them? Just please stop with the argument. It was old when Cows were claiming the options of having the network adapter for PS2 and Lemmings were clowning them because they felt superior having it built into every Xbox. With the way these ridiculous arguments are going, what is the point of consoles at all? Why not get PCs? That way gamers can choose the graphics cards with in their price range or by the amount of graphical detailed they want displayed in them, or they can install an ethernet port or wifi if they want.

The fact of the matter is that advancements of a videogame entertainment system is going to the ability ofone of the companies to"force" something on the consumer. Sometimes it will come with a larger price tag and other times it will not. Sometimesit will be unproven, and other times it willnot.

CD and DVD was the same waywhen Sony released it on PS2 and PS2. Both of which were unproven in any other videogame system...yet Xbox came to use DVD, and subsequently Xbox 360. Just becausea few of you think that Blu-Ray or any other particular componentof a console is forced on you, doesn't mean that others see it that way. LikeI said, it takes companies to force these things on you to help stir advancement. Afterall Xbox did it with Hard-drives and ethernet ports...if it didnt have those im sure it could have been cheaper and people could have chose to get one with or without a HDD, much like the 360.

[QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"][QUOTE="CaseyWegner"][QUOTE="Ragnarok1051"]

[QUOTE="CaseyWegner"]choices are funny? :?CaseyWegner

You got to admit though this is pretty good irony. Has this been confirmed yet?

how is it irony at all? is there a non-blu ray ps3 option available?

All the things that lemmings have bashed the PS3 for, the 360 is getting. Except they are getting a losing format, but has this been confirmed?

again, they didn't bash it because it's what it uses. they bashed it because it was mandatory and drove the price up.

I think you are mistaking Xbox 360 supporters and Xbox 360 fanboys. Supporters made the claims you are, which is logical. Fanboys aka lemmings bashed the Blu-Ray because they said no one has HDTVs and because it was in the PS3.

Lems main bashing point for the ps3 has been the blue-ray/wi-fi/expensive console thing. Mow MS is coming out with a system that has exactly what they were bashing cows for. I find this very funny.

papa_smurf_23

What I love out system wars is it allows me to watch how tweenagers can take something as simple as "another option" and blow it so out of proportion.

Has Microsoft discontinued the Arcade? Do you need the ultimate to play games that are not playable on the most basic core system?

Sony hardly offered their end users a choice, the expensive 20gb or the super expensive 60gb model at launch, and that was the difference.

That is a world of difference then having an Arcade, Elite and Ultimate all of which play the same games, and allow consumers to chose what options they want or need.