Does Zelda generally have mediocre combat?

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uninspiredcup

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Edited By uninspiredcup

Poll Does Zelda generally have mediocre combat? (85 votes)

Yes 56%
No 44%

Hello.

Zelda's generally praised as the greatest series of all time, people specifically citing Ocarina Of Time. While the puzzles can be interesting and show creativity, that's one side of the coin.

Other games, such as Halflife 2 gets mocked for inept combat, yet almost every Zelda game has equally easy combat barring the very old titles, even then, enemies would respawn relentlessly, it's more annoying than anything else.

Once a boss is figured out, there is no challenge or replay value, since once you've figured out the method, almost no skill is involved. Unless you're highly casual, or an infant. The games give you so many hearts and potions, it's nigh on impossible to die in combat, in Phantom Hour Glass most of the hearts lost was from accidentally jumping off the pier, not the enemies themselves.

I'm not Zelda but it seems the combat isn't particularly engaging with later entries being almost pointless. With puzzles themselves, once figured out, having no replay value.

By comparison, played through YS 5 times in comparison, it has no puzzles, but very skill based combat and boss battles, even when figured out, requiring finesse.

Does Zelda have crap combat that needs improved drastically?

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Cloud_imperium

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#101 Cloud_imperium
Member since 2013 • 15146 Posts

It's OK-ish. Nothing too special. Not bad either. It's serviceable.

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Juub1990

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#102 Juub1990
Member since 2013 • 12622 Posts
@jg4xchamp said:

And I'm saying that their goal was something that was unsatisfying to play. Like fundamentally Ocarina of Time's combat has no business not being as close to as good as Dark Souls combat in terms of reverence. You got the lock on, the rolling, blocking, thrusts, jump attacks, basic slashes. But the problem is the franchise never had enough enemies that asked you to be a more active participant. It's actually something Metroid Prime does something better, a series where the combat is a means to an end more than anything, but the bosses are more engaging, metroids require you to be a bit more active, ditto the space pirates, ditto how the ing work on dark aether.

Zelda too often had enemies do the basic wait, attack. Wait, attack. Wait, attack. There weren't enough enemies that asked you to initiate the action, as a result, as a kid it felt like there was more to it. Because we would rush, and then not get anywhere, and fights would take awhile. It's the trick jrpgs have gotten away with. People think those fights are epic, but the strategy is simple as shit, it's just a fight that goes on a long time. And wait/attack enemies aren't the problem, it's the frequency with which they come. Zelda's combat design might actually be better than most people recognize, but it is a flaw, a problem in that game. And part of it is the difficulty, but the part is just how enemies are designed in that game.

Throw in an action genre that only got more mechanically satisfying, and then the Souls games showing you that you could take a simple lock on shield+sword combat, and make it incredibly satisfying start to finish, and you don't have too many excuses for how Zelda does business.

It's similar to how well Uncharted's not trying to be a super duper parkour game, or a rich puzzle game, or vanquish styled mechanically brilliant action...and yeah that might be a goal, doesn't mean I can't think the overall package I got is mediocre. Especially when the thing special about it, is a shitty video game story.

Now again like you say, Zelda easily overcomes its combat to be a good game, and even UC2 overcomes UC2's weak mechanics to be an enjoyable if shallow video game. But this is where Champ's high n mighty great games over really good ones has always come in to say, 3d Zelda good, but never great.

Agreed with most of that and to be honest I figured Ocarina of Times's combat pretty early on. Even active enemies like the Wolfos and Stalfos tend not to do anything if you keep your shield up. They'll just run around and attack here and there. Only really engaging enemy is the Iron Knuckle but there are like 3 of them in the entire game.

Majora's Mask is different and enemies actively engage you. Many of them also require more than just sword attacks to defeat with some being outright immune to it. They also deal a fair bit more damage in general and many can withstand more than the typical 2-3 hits of OOT. The combat has pretty much the same mechanics has OOT but the enemies' behavior is different and it is a notch more difficult. The bosses are also more than just find weak point with dungeon item to defeat. There are multiple ways to defeat them and they can take a lot of punishment before going down and can dish it out accordingly. TP's combat is more polished but sadly the enemies are back to their OOT attack patterns except for a few like Darknuts. Gyorg legit almost killed me in MM, something that never came close to happening in OOT.

Generally I agree, 3D Zelda games are just a few shy elements from being great. To me the only exception is MM but I can understand why it's not everyone's cup of tea lol.

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deactivated-58bd60b980002

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#103 deactivated-58bd60b980002
Member since 2004 • 2016 Posts

@Jag85: I hope its the only element to Dark Souls ... you don't have any real quest, no story, exploration is all about finding the next boss to fight ...

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kemar7856

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#104 kemar7856
Member since 2004 • 11789 Posts

its not but its way too easy especially boss fights

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jaydan

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#105 jaydan
Member since 2015 • 9033 Posts

@jg4xchamp said:

You Skyward Sword combat is good people are insane.

I would argue Surgeon Simulator 2013 has better controls than Skyward Sword.

I mean, the difference in superiority between the two is Surgeon Simulator was purposefully designed to have incompetent controls and thus laughable draw of the game was warranted; whereas, Skyward Sword tried to have good controls but it failed to be so.

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deactivated-5c1d0901c2aec

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#106  Edited By deactivated-5c1d0901c2aec
Member since 2016 • 6762 Posts

@jaydan:

Skyward Sword controls are inconsistent and they have a learning curve. Generally, I see them as a very divisive topic when people discuss the game.

Personally, it's a mixed bag. I loved using the motion controls for sword fighting, the net and the bow but I didn't like the bombs or flying the Loftwing.

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#107  Edited By jaydan
Member since 2015 • 9033 Posts

@jumpaction said:

@jaydan:

Skyward Sword controls are inconsistent and they have a learning curve. Generally, I see them as a very divisive topic when people discuss the game.

Personally, it's a mixed bag. I loved using the motion controls for sword fighting, the net and the bow but I didn't like the bombs or flying the Loftwing.

If the best way to describe Skyward Sword's controls really is "inconsistent", then go figure why many people hate it.

There's some fantastic motion control games out there. I think FPS games benefit it most of all. I thought both Metroid Prime Trilogy and Goldeneye 007 on the Wii incredibly well-implemented and fluid and they rarely ever hiccuped. WarioWare: Smooth Moves, I quickly learned during its time to be an awe-inducing party game because of all the crazy motion things it has the player(s) doing.

With that said, Skyward Sword fell flat and I expected way way better from Nintendo.

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#108 deactivated-5e90a3763ea91
Member since 2008 • 9437 Posts

I don't really think a game loses its replay value after you figure out its puzzles the first time.

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smashed_pinata

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#109 smashed_pinata
Member since 2005 • 3747 Posts

It's simple and works well. Have never had an issue where i felt the controls weren't responding the way i wanted them too. Which is a lot more than i can say for most games today.

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#110  Edited By princeofshapeir
Member since 2006 • 16652 Posts

3D zelda combat hasn't evolved since 1998. twilight princess tried some new stuff with sword techniques but it's still too easy. that being said the combat is fine for what it is and it's not really a big deal in a series that has traditionally been about dungeons, puzzles, boss fights, and exploration.