Doom 3 vs Doom 4 (poll)

so what so bad about doom 3?

Yes - Lost Soul monster design is fantastic

Doom 4 is great, but I still like 3, I do like the horror elements. I like the total Carnage and Heavy Metal of Doom 4, but I like the creepy atmosphere and slower pace of Doom 3. Can I choose both lol? Maybe they should continue Doom 3 under a sub series?

uninspiredcup actually summed up the situation pretty well. Doom 3 was and is an excelent, outstanding game. An EVOLUTION of Doom, whereas Doom 4 just copies 25 year old game without actually understanding the nuances and details that were great then and not reaching the same greatness. Seems people just go away copying each other and just repeating how good Doom 4 is because it ignores every advancement and refinement the genre had over 25 years.

Doom 3 also suffers by how little people actually understand about how its made and what it does. The closet monster nonsense for one, where the original games had that at ever step. People tried to make that as if it was Doom 3's creation and very bad. In fact, Doom 3 is closer to the originals that people may think. Sure it looses some aspects like the arcade action and high running speed(because even in the original games you're only fast when pressing shit to run, normal walking speed is like normal games, but people like to artificially inflate the old games without actually having any idea what they're saying), but the core of the game, its soul and heart is just the same - you're gunning and running through the levels, expending death to the minnions of hell. In highly deyailed enviroments and very well done combat encounters and situations.

People also bitch that you don't have large numbers of enemies on screen. What they fail to realise is that 20 or 30 enemies in the original games were very manageable by running and strafing around them in the large spaces of Doom 2. But they are very suited and adapted for the smaller numbers in Doom 3. A single enemy poses maximum threat by itself and three enemies will kill you often. Of course Doom 3's detractors don't get or adress any of these nuances when shitting on the game because most people have no idea what they're talking about.

Like i said, Doom 3 is an evolution of the original games, a game that kept the heart and soul of the franchise, but by incorporating design elements from Half Life, System Shock or Undying, it evolved the original game's principles and gameplay. It grew the franchise in a desirable direction. People that say it wasn't Doom, or it was a bad Doom game, or it shouldn't have been called Doom, thats just bullshit and lack of understanding the game. Doom 4 i feel is a step back. Ignoring the genres growth over 25 years and releasing today a 1:1 copy of a game from two decades ago is bad form and shouldn't be praised

Doom 2016 was better IMO. It actually felt like a Doom game. It actually had colour.

Interesting.

So Doom 3 biting on what other games were already doing better while losing sight of what made the old Doom games so good is an EVOLUTION.

Doom 4, a game that harkens back to the ideas that made the older titles so fun and builds upon that is not so good.

Ok.

And with these two statements I get the feeling you haven't played the game.

Only in the broadest sense does Doom 4 encompass the qualities of the older games. It's a return to form in spirit, not literally.

The game lets you loose in sprawling corridors with just enough room for exploration and secrets, then opens into larger areas for bigger battles. The game throws you into outnumbered situations with big guns, satisfying gunplay, and a sense of speed. The game doesn't waste your time with a shitty plot or character development. That's where the similarities begin and end.

Otherwise Doom 4 is its own thing. It has a sense of verticality that the older games lacked (and didn't need). It has mechanics that encourage you to jump into a thick heard of demons and feed off of the immediate battle for ammo and health. And while the stricter corridors don't really do anything better than the original games, the arenas for the larger battles are far more sophisticated in their design than the more planar battlegrounds of the classics. Stuff like enemy behavior, and the variation between them, is not even comparable. From the smallest fodder enemies all the way up through the big bad ass bosses, the game offers up a roster of enemies that are quick to get in your face and very satisfying to gun down.

If you've actually played Doom 4 and you still think it's a 1:1 copy then please share what you're smoking my friend.

Beyond that, much of the genres "growth" in the past decade has been shit. For every big step forward you can find an additional 10 steps back. If you want to argue that Doom 4 rewinds the clock a bit and kicks a lot of the genres modern staples to the curb, go for it man. I think that's a good thing. Shit, if only JRPG devs could rewind the clock back to the mid 90's and start over from there we might be cooking.

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Neither Doom 3 nor Doom 4 were ever going to replace the classics. No game can. That's like trying to replace the purity and timeless nature of games like Super Mario Bros. or Street Fighter 2. It's just not happening. The old Doom games are pillars in this industry. Landmarks. And unlike many classics that "aged poorly" (were never that great to begin with), the classic Doom games are still every bit as enjoyable today as they were back then.

All we can hope for from a sequel to a classic is that it's a blast to play while retaining some of the qualities that make the source material so great. Doom 4 is exactly that. Doom 3 is not.

@ConanTheStoner

When talking about evolution we are referring to the Doom series, in that sense Doom3 was much of an evolution compared to Doom than Doom 4 is.

And of course in its path on Doom legacy, Doom4 will never achieve the same greatness because Doom introduced the 2.5D fps while Doom4 while still being a good game did not come up with anything new or only on a cosmetic level.

Doom 3 is regarded as a failure because it tried to go in another direction which was not what the fans wanted or expected but i still think that it was far more enjoyable than Doom4.

- Pea shooter weapons

- Retroactively copy pastes Halflife and System Shock

- The game has a general sense of flatness

Quake and Quake 2 are multi-leveled games and it's competition Halflife 2 has the player going up and down - up and down - up and down with towers and skybox props adding a sense of depth and scale - Doom 3 almost always feels like you are running along a largely flat surface.

- No specific body targeting like Resident Evil 4 i.e. head pops, limb removal

- Instead of fast enemies with projectiles the humanoid enemies largely sit still and have laser sight

- Lack of variety in environments

- No super-shotgun even in the base game

- Cloned Asian NPC's who all sound like George Takei

Yeah, dude didn't just mention Doom, he brought up the modernization of the genre in full. No need to move his goal posts for him, he's a big boy.

And nah, I disagree. Being something wildly different that only follows the originals with a name and a coat of paint is not what I consider evolution. Building upon what the older games do well and expanding from that with new ideas is. If you gave each game a completely different skin and name, you'd still be able to see Dooms roots in Doom 4. You wouldn't be able to say the same about Doom 3, you'd probably just think it's a faster paced RE game in 1st person.

Doom 4 didn't reinvent the wheel, neither 3 or 4 are getting awards for originality here. That's not the point.

But if you believe that Doom 4 did nothing new to separate itself from the originals, again, please pass the smoke bro.

And that's fine, I'm not here to argue preference. If you enjoyed Doom 3 more then good for you. I enjoy my fair share of black sheep titles as well, nothing wrong with that. Popular opinion should never be a factor in your own personal enjoyment of a game.

@ConanTheStoner:

"But if you believe that Doom 4 did nothing new to separate itself from the originals, again, please pass the smoke bro."

All what Doom4 does is a coat of paint, nothing outstanding compared to the rest and less of an achievement if we compare it to the Father of the fps genre, if you see it otherwise, your smoke is most welcome!!!

Doom3 introduced real time dynamic lighting for the first time and tried to build upon it, among other things technically, what did Doom4 introduce with regards to the nowadays industry standards both in terms of game play and graphic techniques?

Trying to go back to the source and failing at it is no achievement.

doom 3

I enjoyed Brutal DOOM mod for the original DOOM games and DOOM 3 more than DOOM 2016. My way of acknowledging how good a game is, can i replay this game over and over and still love it everytime? So far i really don't think i could replay DOOM 2016 over and over. I can still play DOOM 1 and 2 and 3 over and over. Also, I love how people keep saying the original DOOM was not horror, or dark, did you have your brightness all the way up or something and cheated? Because the original DOOM games were really dark in some areas and you needed to find nightvision goggles just to see. There was plenty of areas in the original DOOM games that were hard to see and every much about horror and jump scares. When those walls would open up in the original DOOM games and there were 8 Pig dogs behind them and 2 giant demons would come out of some other wall, it was pretty action packed, intense and kind of scary. There was tons of horror elements and jump scares in the original DOOM games. Monsters did actually come from behind walls in DOOM 3 like the originals and DOOM 3 played out like the darkish corridors in the original DOOM games with more atmosphere.

So far I'm feeling like DOOM 2016, every area feels like the same as the one before.

I played through DOOM 2016 game and thought, well that was fun. Wouldn't pay full price for it though. Whereas I felt DOOM 3, was actually worth the full price tag. I felt immersed in DOOM 3's world and DOOM 3 played out like the darkly lit corridors of DOOM 1 and 2, i feel really detached to the world in DOOM 2016. Kind of like I'm just going through the motions from area to area. I'm really not finding it interesting at all. The Ai for the monsters are good though in DOOM 2016.

Get the brutal mod for the original DOOM 1 and 2 games for PC, its seriously epic. Almost makes the original DOOM games feel like completely new games.

So far, I enjoyed DOOM 3 more than DOOM 2016. Flashlight and all. I loved having to choose between a lit area or a gun. It made the game pretty freaky and intense. It was the answer to nightvision in DOOM 1 and DOOM 2. Nightvision would just light up the whole room, but come to think of it, DOOM 3 handled that also, just by turning the lights on in some areas, that substituted for nightvision goggles.

I assume you mean just RE6, right?

Kudos to Sergeant Mark IV you mean. they pretty much grabbed all the ideas from the mod and just put some nice graphics to it.

I liked both, I like the new Doom a lot more than I liked Doom 3 in its time. But, I like the story and horror elements of Doom 3, and I wish we could have that coupled with the new Doom's gameplay. The new Doom was very light on story, but I figure they didn't want to weigh the game down in story and just have it thrive on its gameplay, but on reflection as a retro-shooter then it's probably generous on the story side of things.

Anyhow, worth noting, Doom 1 & 2 are only $2.49 on XBLA right now. Pretty damn good bargain. If you have an Xbox One/360 and like Doom then this is a must. And I must say, plays really good with the controller setup.

DOOM 3 all the way.

Doom 4 (2016) is visually great, has all the elements to be a great shooter.. but ... it's.. meh.. I enter a room, wait for all the monsters to appear, kill all monsters, repeat. It's OK but it won't stay in my memory after I'm done with it. Doom 3 on the other hand.. this game was scary AF. Doom 3 had atmosphere. At to all who say "but that not what was Doom about.." I lived to play the first games too and they weren't that good really (IMO!) , Wolf 3D was much better. I guess some people prefer the story \ atmosphere \ feeling kind of game , and some prefer the Serious Sam king of game. I also don't like how killing monsters feel in Doom 4, it feels like they are made of water.

As far as I admire Doom 3 when it came with beautiful graphics at that time and really scary game, I enjoyed more Doom 4 even though I felt disappointed at first when I saw no horror signs, but soon I realized id made original Doom that everybody wished for with better graphics and lots of brutality.

I did think that they should've made it shorter since no upgrade were needed anymore and all monsters were revealed at some point - going to hell back and forth really just spoiled the experience in the end for me.

4 months old is just too old

@davillain-: Agree, didn't saw 2 posts before me is from 2 months ago.

Thanks, Locked.