EGM doesnt give MGS4 a review score (letter) due to Konami?

[QUOTE="vicmackey39"]

[QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]honestly i think this is also the reason we havent seen the offical ign review yetthrones

IGN are the most corrupt of the lot

Nah, I've always liked IGN.

[QUOTE="microwavedapple"]It sucks that developers are telling reviewers what they can and can't mention. That almost eliminates the purpose of a review.Bread_or_Decide

Check out this chain of events.

1. Reviewer spoils big MGS4 secret.

2.It gets onto TEH INTERNETZ

3. Morons start posting spoilers everywhere to ruin it for fans. Thread titles with the spoiler. It would be everywhere.

4. Kojima is upset that gamers had the game ruined for them.

Yeah I'd rather they listen to Konami and keep their yacks shut.

[QUOTE="madvalocity5"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Chutebox"][QUOTE="madvalocity5"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

All EGM said was there were restrictions on what they could say, which could go either way.

Dreams-Visions

I see damage control is in full swing. This, however is not news. It was revealed last week that Konami asked reviewers to not mention the lenghty install times in between each and every chapter...or to not mention the lenth of them, should they mention them.

In addition, they asked not to discuss the length of the cutscenes.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by Cow hypocracy, though. Questionable industrial tactics are okay, so long as it benefits your system or are things that you deem unworthy. People have no problem with other game reviews discussing small technical issues or things people may notice...but MGS4 is the sacred Cow.

If you're going to take that attitude, why not simply rely on the Sony Defense Force for your reviews? You can trust they'll only talk about what's great about a game.

wait wait wait, installs between each and every chapter? where is this info coming from?

it's during the cut scenes so you won't notice.

But guess what? I've never met the gigabyte that goes from optical disc to HDD in 30 seconds. I fully expect these installs to last 5-10 minutes. Maybe even more. And the notion that they'd try to suppress that information is more damaging that the information itself.

This was a dumb move by Konami. That's all. As other have said, you can go take a dump and come back and you're ready to roll on the next chapter. But because they decided they needed to try and hide the truth, it brings more questions into play and more concerns about the nature of some industry players towards the review community than there should have been.

And EGM refusing to abide by Konami rules and waiting to buy a copy off the shelf suggests they were concerned about having to compromise their values and commitment to US.

A reviewer should never be put in a position where (s)he feels they have to compromise what they believe or not say something they felt obligated to say because a reviewer told them so.

If we can't all be against that principally, we're not interested in the integrity of game reviewing and everyone who was pissed about Jeff G's termination is now a hypocrite.

i just dont remember the last time i saw a 30 second MGS cutscene.

id imagine, and this is only an assumption just like yours, that these installs would occur during cutscenes long enough to conceal them.

Maybe you misunderstood...maybe I missspoke. I mean this:

Cutscense - who knows how long they will be? Probably a 1-5 minutes on average. But who knows.

New Chapter installs - they will happen in between the end of each chapter. The game will install some number of gigs to your HDD.

Those HDD intalls will NOT happen fast enough "to conceal them". There will be a break in the action of several minutes while the game installs the data for the upcoming chapter.

We talked about all of this last week. People were like, "meh...I'd rather the game install it all one big time at the beginning, rather than it doing 5-10 minute installs 5 or 6 times."

others were okay with it. I'm not debating either. I'm debating the principle of a game developer/publisher telling reviewers specifically not to mention it at all.

THAT is the problem.

i understand, but im questioning EGM because they claim they cannot reveal details that other reviews already have.

I have a problem with people making assumptions. You guys are basing all of this off a freaking rumor and nothing more. EGM only said they were restricted on what htey could say, and people blow it all up.

And since you are assuming about me also, I'll say it again. I said in the main thread that if Konami is trying to cover up installs and long cut scenese then it is lame. So, stop assuming k?

Chutebox

So what do you think is going on?

I don't think Konami is threatening to pull ads from reviewers though are they?

if they are then that's stupid... it's not like it would have gotten low scores anyways. MGS fans are hardcore gamers we are going to find out about the installation and cutscene length anyways.

[QUOTE="Chutebox"]

I have a problem with people making assumptions. You guys are basing all of this off a freaking rumor and nothing more. EGM only said they were restricted on what htey could say, and people blow it all up.

And since you are assuming about me also, I'll say it again. I said in the main thread that if Konami is trying to cover up installs and long cut scenese then it is lame. So, stop assuming k?

Dreams-Visions

So what do you think is going on?

I'm thinking we'll find out when they review it, I honestly don't know what's going on. As others have said, install times and the length of cut scenes have already been mentioned. But I dont' know, I just won't make assumptions.

[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]

While some folks are going to assume it's because of game flaws, I am not in that category. No professional reviewing outlet or individual reviewer is going to knowingly and/or willingly post spoilers in their review because of their own personal ethical standards.

Bread_or_Decide

Anyone remember if this happened with MGS2: Sons of Liberty?

Nope. Wasn't following the game back then. Heck, I never really got into the MGS series until playing Substance on the Xbox (the only last gen system I owned at the time)

i understand, but im questioning EGM because they claim they cannot reveal details that other reviews already have.

madvalocity5

But who knows. We'll all see in a couple of weeks.

But yes, it's all interesting.

If EGM is making a big deal about spoilers then that makes them look stupid and I will cancel my subscription, I would assume other would too. Logically it doesn't make sense for EGM to cry about spoilers restrictions.

[QUOTE="thrones"][QUOTE="vicmackey39"]

[QUOTE="ParadiddleFill"]honestly i think this is also the reason we havent seen the offical ign review yetblue_hazy_basic

IGN are the most corrupt of the lot

Nah, I've always liked IGN.

*shrug* For the vast majority of games I care about, they agree with me.

Surely you choose a website that agrees with your taste?

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Chutebox"]

I have a problem with people making assumptions. You guys are basing all of this off a freaking rumor and nothing more. EGM only said they were restricted on what htey could say, and people blow it all up.

And since you are assuming about me also, I'll say it again. I said in the main thread that if Konami is trying to cover up installs and long cut scenese then it is lame. So, stop assuming k?

Chutebox

So what do you think is going on?

I'm thinking we'll find out when they review it, I honestly don't know what's going on. As others have said, install times and the length of cut scenes have already been mentioned. But I dont' know, I just won't make assumptions.

Well if the game installs between each chapter but is hidden with cut scenes doen't thats mean we're forced to watch the cut scene? Maybe thats what Konami doesn't want EGM talking about, especially if the cut scenes are boring and cheesy.

demoralizer

Me thinks metal gear is not for you. If you're a cut scene skipper I recommend Halo 3 or gears of war.

i understand, but im questioning EGM because they claim they cannot reveal details that other reviews already have.

madvalocity5

yeah, they have I have read the reviews that are out now and some contain those details...

It seems like Konami just asked them to leave out those details and left it up to the reviewers.

There's a difference between that and pulling ads after it gets a bad review, which MGS4 most likely won't even get from any reviewer.

[QUOTE="madvalocity5"]

i understand, but im questioning EGM because they claim they cannot reveal details that other reviews already have.

Dreams-Visions

But who knows. We'll all see in a couple of weeks.

But yes, it's all interesting.

Eurogamer certainly subtracted points, since it gave the game an 8/10.

some quotes from that review:

"An unbelievably lengthy and self-indulgent epilogue - you can't call it a cut-scene, it's an entire film in its own right, and a deeply boring one too"

"Such is the luxurious length and mind-numbing detail of the cut-scenes and codec conversations that you could put the pad down for almost half the game's ample length. "

"Take note, however, that there are several minutes of install time to be endured, not just at the start, but before each act - albeit graced with a fantastic animated graphic of Snake smoking next to some health warnings."

now that may not reveal the exact time of the cutscenes, or the exact amount of the installs, but its certainly detailed enough to convey the idea that if you mind long cutscenes and some loading times, you wont enjoy much of this game.

what could EGM possibly want to say that konami wouldnt let them, while Eurogamer gets away with this.

however, you're right, we should lay off the arguing and just wait a couple of weeks to see how this unfolds.

i retire.

[QUOTE="demoralizer"]

Well if the game installs between each chapter but is hidden with cut scenes doen't thats mean we're forced to watch the cut scene? Maybe thats what Konami doesn't want EGM talking about, especially if the cut scenes are boring and cheesy.

Bread_or_Decide

Me thinks metal gear is not for you. If you're a cut scene skipper I recommend Halo 3 or gears of war.

Yeah true, I just hope if that is the case that EGM would be able to tell me if the game is or not for me.

WTF??? Long cut scenes are viewed as a flaw? Metal Gear Solid is ALL ABOUT STORY. Cut scenes are a huge tool used to tell that story.Omnisystem

Who needs EGM?

MGS4 has enough 10s already

EmperorSupreme

true :lol:

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.Cedmln

Long cutscenes is not a flaw. ITs how entertaining they are that matters.

I agree the cutscenes in MGS are one of the best parts of the game.

[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="madvalocity5"]

i understand, but im questioning EGM because they claim they cannot reveal details that other reviews already have.

madvalocity5

But who knows. We'll all see in a couple of weeks.

But yes, it's all interesting.

Eurogamer certainly subtracted points, since it gave the game an 8/10.

some quotes from that review:

"An unbelievably lengthy and self-indulgent epilogue - you can't call it a cut-scene, it's an entire film in its own right, and a deeply boring one too"

"Such is the luxurious length and mind-numbing detail of the cut-scenes and codec conversations that you could put the pad down for almost half the game's ample length. "

"Take note, however, that there are several minutes of install time to be endured, not just at the start, but before each act - albeit graced with a fantastic animated graphic of Snake smoking next to some health warnings."

now that may not reveal the exact time of the cutscenes, or the exact amount of the installs, but its certainly detailed enough to convey the idea that if you mind long cutscenes and some loading times, you wont enjoy much of this game.

what could EGM possibly want to say that konami wouldnt let them, while Eurogamer gets away with this.

however, you're right, we should lay off the arguing and just wait a couple of weeks to see how this unfolds.

i retire.

Here's what I think. WE DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY.

All of you people pretending like you know what's going on, just stop acting like know it alls and wait for the actual story to surface.

10 days to go........

Konami should have let such details be mentioned, Fans of the Series wouldnt mind having a 20 minute installation or more.... we waited so many years for a sequel, am sure 20/25 mins more is not the end of the world...

Also long cut-scenes in a story driven game are seen as a plus.... (imo)

Malta_1980

20 minute installs are ok, but wasting 10 seconds of your life to get up off your couch and insert a 2nd or third disc is a flaw?

Nah, I've always liked IGN.

thrones

I always found their broad focus and overlong poorly written articles pretty dumb but they've gotten much wose since Murdoch bought them. apart from the whole GTA incident practically every story on their site is startingto look like official PR

[QUOTE="gohan2710"]who cares? the game is known for having long cutscenes, but at least they are worth watchingrappid_rabbit

Agreed, the cutscenes are what I like the most about the series.

But I think your missing the point. When the publisher tries to dictate how a review should be written or presented, its just not good for the industry. Its dishonest, and it really tests the limits of journalistic integrity.

Journalistic integrity.... Boy, THAT could open up a can of worms..

This is stupid Cut scenes make the metal gear solid series what it is today.

Konami Was justifying that they want there game graded fairly and not docked points because of a cut scene issue. That would be unfairly written that the game is perfect in every way but the cut scenes make it bad that is why I'm giving it an 8/10 instead of a high 9 or 10. It's like giving a RPG a bad score for having too many RPG elements you know what you're getting into when you start playing the game.

[QUOTE="madvalocity5"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="madvalocity5"]

i understand, but im questioning EGM because they claim they cannot reveal details that other reviews already have.

Heydanbud92

But who knows. We'll all see in a couple of weeks.

But yes, it's all interesting.

Eurogamer certainly subtracted points, since it gave the game an 8/10.

some quotes from that review:

"An unbelievably lengthy and self-indulgent epilogue - you can't call it a cut-scene, it's an entire film in its own right, and a deeply boring one too"

"Such is the luxurious length and mind-numbing detail of the cut-scenes and codec conversations that you could put the pad down for almost half the game's ample length. "

"Take note, however, that there are several minutes of install time to be endured, not just at the start, but before each act - albeit graced with a fantastic animated graphic of Snake smoking next to some health warnings."

now that may not reveal the exact time of the cutscenes, or the exact amount of the installs, but its certainly detailed enough to convey the idea that if you mind long cutscenes and some loading times, you wont enjoy much of this game.

what could EGM possibly want to say that konami wouldnt let them, while Eurogamer gets away with this.

however, you're right, we should lay off the arguing and just wait a couple of weeks to see how this unfolds.

i retire.

Here's what I think. WE DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY.

All of you people pretending like you know what's going on, just stop acting like know it alls and wait for the actual story to surface.

oh pls madvalocity5 stated "we should lay off the arguing and just wait a couple of weeks to see how this unfolds" now you just sound like your doing damage control. Some ones at fault here either Konami or EGM, we are can come up with own conclusion.

And I didn't know about the Eurogamer review thanks for the info. It does shed some light on the subject, Because EGM complaining about Konami spoiler restrictions doesn't make much sense.

[QUOTE="EmperorSupreme"]

Who needs EGM?

MGS4 has enough 10s already

Heydanbud92

true :lol:

Not really. There are a few tens from legit sources, but they were reviewed with exclusions that Konami put forth. Lair probably would have gotten a few 10's if reviewers went by the review guidebook they sent out.

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.Cedmln

Long cutscenes is not a flaw. ITs how entertaining they are that matters.

And I'm sure every single person who buys MGS4 will have the exact same viewpoint as you. :|

Not everyone wants ultra-long cutscenes, believe it or not.

[QUOTE="Omnisystem"]WTF??? Long cut scenes are viewed as a flaw? Metal Gear Solid is ALL ABOUT STORY. Cut scenes are a huge tool used to tell that story.Danm_999

Which makes it odd that Konami feels that needs to be downplayed.

It's a strength of the series to fans, one would imagine they'd highlight it.

That's how I feel, I glad to here about long installs and load times, because that means we're getting an incredible game. I realize there are bad games that have the same problem, but the big difference is that MGS4 has a proven track record.:)

UPDATE:

EGM researching new letter to put above A.

[QUOTE="Cedmln"]

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.AvIdGaMeR444

Long cutscenes is not a flaw. ITs how entertaining they are that matters.

And I'm sure every single person who buys MGS4 will have the exact same viewpoint as you. :|

Not everyone wants ultra-long cutscenes, believe it or not.

Not everyone wants ultra-violence, believe it or not.

Reference to Gears, Ninja Gaiden or so forth. You can take any quality of a game and say people won't like it, and you'll be right.

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.hofuldig

Have you ever played a Metal Gear game? they are widely known for there High quaility cutscenes that are way better than any game :) atleast i think they are.

Ya but its a video game.Video games are meant to be "fun" not movies.

I remember a time before MGS4 when practically everyone who wasn't an MGS fan said they weren't because "It's basically a movie." Now that liking MGS4 is a prerequisite to owning Playstation 3, everyone's defending the game that has as much cutscene as MGS3 has gameplay. Huh.cutmaclass1

Well, when have get a site riddled with fanboys, this is what you get: A bunch of people who can't think for themselves.

UPDATE:

EGM researching new letter to put above A.

p2rus

S

[QUOTE="hofuldig"]

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.terdoo

Have you ever played a Metal Gear game? they are widely known for there High quaility cutscenes that are way better than any game :) atleast i think they are.

Ya but its a video game.Video games are meant to be "fun" not movies.

Movies aren't fun? :|

[QUOTE="terdoo"][QUOTE="hofuldig"]

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.thrones

Have you ever played a Metal Gear game? they are widely known for there High quaility cutscenes that are way better than any game :) atleast i think they are.

Ya but its a video game.Video games are meant to be "fun" not movies.

Movies aren't fun? :|

Details on how long the install and how much space is required is pretty important. Wow, that sounds so much like a PC.Sins-of-Mosin

[QUOTE="thrones"][QUOTE="terdoo"][QUOTE="hofuldig"]

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.whocares4peace

Have you ever played a Metal Gear game? they are widely known for there High quaility cutscenes that are way better than any game :) atleast i think they are.

Ya but its a video game.Video games are meant to be "fun" not movies.

Movies aren't fun? :|

yes it was

[QUOTE="Cedmln"]

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.blue_hazy_basic

Long cutscenes is not a flaw. ITs how entertaining they are that matters.

Have you ever played a Metal Gear game? they are widely known for there High quaility cutscenes that are way better than any game :) atleast i think they are.

hofuldig

Jesus dude you have 300 in your avy. STOP.

[QUOTE="whocares4peace"][QUOTE="thrones"][QUOTE="terdoo"]

Ya but its a video game.Video games are meant to be "fun" not movies.

mgsbethatgame

Movies aren't fun? :|

yes it was

[QUOTE="blue_hazy_basic"][QUOTE="Cedmln"]

[QUOTE="Frexie"]Pathetic, Konami doesn't want reviewers to be honest about the games flaws.butteater86

Long cutscenes is not a flaw. ITs how entertaining they are that matters.

Have you ever played a Metal Gear game? they are widely known for there High quaility cutscenes that are way better than any game :) atleast i think they are.

hofuldig

Jesus dude you have 300 in your avy. STOP.

I loved 300 (except for the scenes added that weren't in the novel, they were weak) and I'm a big fan of B movies too as it happens, doesn't mean I want to watch them while I'm playing a video game.

BTW maybe you could try adding to the discussion with something useful instead of flaming in the future?

EDIT *looks at your user name* ah nevermind :) summer holidays already?

I think EGM did the right thing, as a reviewer you need to tell how the game performs and what does it require, if Konami told them not to spoil the story that is understandable, but putting restriction by not telling how long a cutscene is and about the installation is a bad move by Konami.