Elden Ring loses well over 90% of its player base.

Enough is enough. ER>BOTW+BOTW2.

@hardwenzen I would argue that BotW = Bloodborne > .... >>>Dark Souls 2 > SKyward Sword > Elden Ring.

Hardwenzen is the most insecure Elden Ring fan I have met, bashing the game has proven far more entertaining than actually playing it. Just look at how much he will try to counter factual and objectively verifiable arguments with... insults and name-calling.

I think deep down, even he knows the game is quite bad.

I mean, between its Oblivion levels of bad copy paste dungeons, bland and overly cryptic lore, atrocious quest design, unfinished quests at launch, shallow combat, recycled assets from a gen 7 game (gods I remember when Pokemon Sword and Shield got bashed to hell for this), recycled bosses, awful character system and more. There is just so much wrong with the game.

He is trying to argue that a combat focused game is far superior to puzzle/problem solving focused game, because said game solver game has weaker combat. It is also why these 2 games will not be compared to eachother by any serious person, their goals are completely different. It is why I dont use BotW to rip into elden ring, but rather other combat focused games like Nioh 2.

It is a game focused on combat, but the combat feels like it came from 2009 with an added jump button, whoopdiedoo. Nioh 2 absolutely decimated the combat of Elden Ring. I found the pitiful combat of ER to be several years out of date.

Halo Infinite > Elden Ring

You two are so buttmad from a single multiplat game. And no, deep down all i am seeing is a masterpiece that will be remembered and talked about for the decades to come. It will also be remembered as THE game that buried BOTW😎

Nioh2 is completely irrelevant when talking about ER. These two are not even in the same demension when talking about quality.

:P

Nioh 2 and Elden Ring are similar in many ways. They are both heavily recycled games, bloated with recycled assets, with an emphasis on punishing combat.

The only difference is that Elden Ring has a dull empty world, while Nioh 2 has lousy looter aspects. Pick your poison, but Nioh 2 at least has (really) good combat, so it gets one thing right.

Nioh2 has a good combat system that's under poor and repetitive level design, repetitive and uniginative enemies design, inferior bosses, no story, extremely poor RNG loot that doesn't fit the style of the game whatsoever and is essentially Nioh1 with minor additions that could've been added in a dlc. ER and Nioh 2 are not in the same playing field. ER and BOTW are, and ER buries it on all fronts. BOTW is incapable of doing a single thing better than ER. Not even one lol. Talk about being rolled by Fromsoft, and Zelda is supposed to be the best Nintendo can offer. Don't you think this is a bit sad?

@Maroxad: Damn! You really don't like those games. I can sorta get the recycled assets and enemies in both of them, but dull open worlds and lousy looter aspects? Yeesh. What games do you happen to enjoy?

I enjoyed Breath of the Wild for what it was (put in 135 hours myself), but there is a lot of dull emptiness in that one as well. Only difference there is the graphics feel a lot worse in the dull areas that aren't as detailed as Hyrule Castle for instance as compared to Elden Ring.

So much suffering from our sheep crew. Shows how insecure they were with their BOTW. And when BOTW2 comes out, and is instantly overshadowed by ER, much more QQ will be on display. I can't wait😱

This would be a headline if it happened 2 months ago, not 3 months after it launched

A good chunk of what you described with Nioh 2 applies to Elden Ring you know.

Unless you think those copy pasted Overworld assets, and same 5 room layouts you found in every goddamn side dungeon were actual content. And the bosses in Elden Ring were for most of the part, trash. That were recycled endlessly. At least the bosses in Nioh 2 had a good battle system to work with. Elden Ring felt like Dark Souls with an empty world and a jump button. There is a reason they added the horse, because the world wasn't interesting, and the traversal mechanics were bland.

Here is an example of traversal which actually involves creative use of the environment and the game's mechanics and rules.

Nioh 2 just made Elden Ring feel outdated, despite being 2 years old. The hacks at fromsoft need to make a new game already. We have for most of the part been playing the same game since Dark Souls 1 (well to be fair, Bloodborne felt fresh enough).

Lousy looter aspects refers to Nioh. Which is that game's biggest flaw.

The loot in Elden Ring is pretty good. Itemization is one of the few things I can praise about that game.

I liked Demons Souls, Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne and even Nioh 2, despite its flaws. But with Elden Ring, it felt like they just added an open world on top of Dark Souls, implemented it poorly, without really addressing the many flaws Dark Souls 1 had.

@Maroxad: I guess. Different strokes for different folks. I personally got overwhelmed in a good way with Elden Ring. It was just brimming with content and more and more areas to explore and big bad enemies and bosses to kill. I never felt like they just added an open world. It felt like they really worked hard on this big game and filled it with stuff and it was up to you where you decided to go. In a way, it felt a lot like BOTW to me. It's just that I prefer Souls games more than Zelda for why I enjoyed it better.

At least you got that right.

And what does dark souls 1 has anything to do with ER? You could've said that they took DkS3 and added an open world on top, and i could agree, but what's the problem with that? not like the level design has suffered😂. You're getting a game with a massive scale, amazingly diverse when it comes to biomes (something the massive majority of open world games lack) and top notch level design that i'd argue is at least on par with their best previous work. But of course you wouldn't agree because you're most likely looking at those copy/pasted caves, and that's the level design for you lol. Lets ignore godrick's castle, inferno manor, the capital, etc, etc. All of these amazing levels are TRASH!!!

@SecretPolice said:

@x_hedon said:

Halo Infinite > Elden Ring

:P

you're right. Belden ring is highly over rated. Halo completely destroys belden ring.

Halo + Ninty folks still butthurt over ER months later.

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@SecretPolice said:

@x_hedon said:

Halo Infinite > Elden Ring

:P

you're right. Belden ring is highly over rated. Halo completely destroys belden ring.

Well, that's a given. Look at the 90+% player drop in ER. BYEEEEEEE

Should have called it Seldom Ring because seldom does anyone ever finish it. 😅

@x_hedon said:

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@SecretPolice said:

@x_hedon said:

Halo Infinite > Elden Ring

:P

you're right. Belden ring is highly over rated. Halo completely destroys belden ring.

Well, that's a given. Look at the 90+% player drop in ER. BYEEEEEEE

oofff, thats just a massive massive drop. I expected some level of drop, but 90%+ is just unheard of, its unprecedented really. I heard someone say, that half the people who play the game don't even get past the 2nd boss. And that most people tried to return the game to gamestop, but they were refused the refunds. Shameful to be honest.

I'm finally about to order mine this week ... i'm late to the party, but i don't care, i'm hyped to see what's the big deal, i've avoided lots of spoilers so i'm going in practically blind to this.

Godrick's castle was good.

Inferno Manor was ok.

The Capital was completely meh, felt unfinished.

The Sewers was atrocious.

Now how about the empty open world? The recycled dungeons that made up most of the game's landmass? The legacy dungeons being decent does not excuse the rest of the world.

You are treating massive scale like it is a good thing. In Elden Ring, the world was a chore to traverse.

just remember all sales final, you can't return a game to walmart or gamestop, especially a $70 game like this one.

It wasn't a chore, you just didn't like it. You're forgetting all of Liurnia of the Lakes, the Academy, Caria Manor, Shaded Castle, Caelid, Altus Plateau, Farum Azula, all of Mountain tops of Giants, and the Halig Tree etc. And if you think that the Capital was meh, I can genuinely say that I just don't think you have good taste in levels.

Hate all you want on the PvP balance, it needs a long ways to go. But if you're describing the Land Between as a chore I think you're mistaking preference with design.

Thank you! That's what I was thinking. I just couldn't remember all the names to all the different places. I know we all have our likes and dislikes, but to play Elden Ring thoroughly and to explore all the areas and to ultimately come away unimpressed is utterly baffling to me. From Software really put in their all and then some when they made this game. So much went into it and so many crazy areas like Farum Azula with the tornados and flying dragons all over the place and Caelid looking so red and very much like Hell. I just can't fathom playing all of that (which took me 166 hours) and just coming away going "meh". I don't understand. So many different biomes and crazy ideas for maps. Are you not entertained?

Really the only thing that sorta sucked was the recycling of a lot of the bosses but I'm willing to let that pass and not bother me so much when there were sooooo many enemies and bosses littered throughout the game. That would be the only thing I could say maybe needed a little work. But that was it. Elden Ring is a masterpiece, personally. A breath of fresh air in a time when I feel like there is a sea of shitty games.

@poe13: Also the recycling of so many dungeons. And 90% worthless loot.

@mesome713: which BOTW also did with so many of its shrines looking very similar and all of them having the same song playing in them. I still enjoyed Zelda as well but unfortunately, both BOTW and Elden Ring have some recycled assets here and there that ultimately, I personally looked past because I was having so much fun exploring the entire game. It was hard for me to just go "ugh, this same looking dungeon again", when that is pretty much true for every single open world video game. There is just going to be some degree of recycling going on. It is what it is.

Also for the loot thing, at least none of the weapons broke after 30 swings which is what happened with a LOT of BOTW's weapons. Breakable as shit.

@poe13: Zelda Atleast had different puzzles in those shrines. Elden Ring was just the same ol. And I’d rather pick up breakable weapons than 90% weapons I can’t use.

I didnt forget those areas, those werent legacy dungeons (The Sewers were a part of one, but I avoided mentioning which one for spoiler reasons).

And Mountain Tops of the Giants? That place was as empty and uninspired as a zone can be. Not to mention. The boss you fought there was probably one of hte worst bosses in Souls history. Incredibly buggy, non threatening and just... tedious.

As for those zones you mentioned

Hit

• Caelid

• the Academy

• Farum Azula

Miss

• Caria Manor

• Liurnia of the Lakes

• Shaded Castle

• Altus Plateau

• Mountain tops of Giants

Didn't do (I was just so over the game, I just wanted it done)

• Halig Tree

And no, there is nothing particularly impressive about The capital. The level design didnt lend much to the actual encounters. Which is really bad when you consider this is a combat centric game. And the buildings were for most of the part just window dressing. Several buildings which I assumed would serve a purpose had none. Resulting in me feeling like the game did nothing but waste my time.

It being more open ended could have been a nice thing, but Elden Ring's traversal mechanics are near non-existant.

They reused the same types over and over. Also had garbage rewards.

I never return i game.

ER not getting any love :(

You would rather have breakable weapons? BOTW never gave you a durability amount for any of the weapons so you had to keep looking at them to make sure they weren't flashing red so you could keep using them. That was awful. At least with Dark Souls 2, it would let you know if a weapon was going to break with how much durability it had.

Also, 90% weapons you can't use? What does this mean? Did you not upgrade any of your skills in Elden Ring to meet requirements when you leveled up? And if you upgraded the wrong skills, did you never respec to reallocate your points so you could use other weapons that you couldn't before?

Hey, you do you, I guess. Sounds like you missed out.

I would rather have a system that encourages me to use a variety of weapons. Than one that encourages me to stick to one.

Elden Ring's Weapon Upgrade system, attribute system does not do much to encourage experimentation, especially if you use non-unique weapons. At least they had the decency to nerf upgrade materials making weapon catch up a lot more manageable.

"Buh you can respec"

Those respec items are exceedingly rare and a finite resource besides. Who is going to spend an item they might only have one of just to try out a new weapon? Which is going to be a very likely scenario unless you know where to find them.

The From Soft Character System is just so... bad.

They really need to overhaul the attribute system from the ground up.

@Maroxad: It teaches you to be conservative with your resources. If you don't like it, fine. I'm not sure if you know, but Souls games are not as accessible for newer players as perhaps Zelda games are. These games have a reputation for being tough on you and you have to make your choices count. So yes, there are a finite amount of those larval tears. And guess what, I am one of those people that spent larval tears to respec when I only had 5 at late game stage because I had trouble with certain harder bosses then. The respec system worked for me.

I agree with HoolaHoopman. It's not bad, you just didn't like it. It isn't for you. Which is what a lot of people have to deal with when they play Souls games. They are tough and sometimes things don't work out. It is the way it is with these games. You have to work with what you have. Zelda on the other hand, well, those games can hand things over to you on a platter.

There's 18 Larval tears in the game, not exactly "exceedingly rare". Upgrade materials are super easy to find and plentiful, they can also be purchased once the associated miners bell is found. Tried out like a dozen different weapons in my playthrough.

L O L thanks for confirming my previous post. Calling Liurnia and Altus Plateau a miss.

There's also enough Dragon smithing stones to get yourself 10+ upgraded weapons that are applicable to a build you're going for. This is also ignoring that all standards weapons by be infused with all elements giving an amount of flexibility being completely ignored. His critique is dumb.

How many of those 18 larval tears will be found in a single playthrough from a user who doesnt use a guide? Iirc, most of those larval tears are located in the underworld. Which is a place not everyone will visit. The astel achievement rate is just at 40%. But the point remains, people are not willing to spend rare and finite items just to try a single weapon.

As for the upgrade materials, while they are common, their common occurance is also counteracted by the fact that they are also in really high demand. The materials you find might be enough to keep 2 weapons up to date. Which is not enough to really allow you to experiment with different styles. Yes, you can buy upgrade materials, but this does come at a cost at souls you could spend at levelling. The fact is, the game punishes you the player for experimenting.

You tried out like a dozen different weapons? Cute. For better and worse, that is what I did in the first 2 hours of Nioh.

No it doesnt teach that, and gamers already dont need a lesson in hoarding. In fact, the hoarder mentality is widely considered to be a big problem in modern gaming. What Games should instead teach is to be prudent with their resources. Games like Roguelikes (Nethack, ADOM, Shiren the Wanderer), and even Breath of The Wild do this. By making resource management a part of the moment to moment gameplay.

Also accessability? Elden Ring was exceedingly accessible, hell the game had so many features I refused to use (summons), because I could immediately see how they would make a piss easy game even easier. No accessability was not the problem, Elden Ring was just plain boring.

I dont think you understand my issue with Elden Ring's character system. But really it is more of a general RPG woe than anything. You dont many choices in the moment to moment gameplay you make them in a menu on a site of grace, or at the respec station.

And having different attributes guide different weapon growths would have been fine if it werent for the MMO'ification of the stats. And by that I mean, what does the str stat do? What does the dex stat do? Magic stat? Faith Stat?

All of htem do the EXACT same thing: Enable you to use more advanced weaponry and increase your damage in them. To make matters worse, Magic users are not exactly weaker than str builds in melee combat, especially when you consider weapons like the moonlight sword. The lava whip will allow faith users to be proficient physical attackers as well. There is no real penalty, magic users iirc, were noticeably weaker in melee combat str and dex builds were. But what about magic then? Well, str and dex builds now got access to magic via weapon arts. So in the end, all choices end up feeling very similar.

What exactly would be changed if Elden Ring merged the Dex and Str stat? Faith and Int stat? Maybe a new attribute to add something interesting to the game. Arcane adding to stuff like bleed is a nice touch, that actually changes things up and somewhat interacts with how you fight.

Of course I am not saying they need to be merged. In fact, there are VERY interesting ways strength and dex could be kept as seperate stats while both adding damage. With some House Rules, I turned the strength stat into something very interesting when I DM in D&D. Dex is roughly the same. But Strength as an attribute has a ridicilous level of untapped potential.

Found at least a dozen myself and didn't use a guide. More than I needed as I had a few leftover at the end. You don't need to use one every time to try out a weapon, many weapons of the same class have similar stat requirements. They're also found all over the place and not exceedingly rare.

Completely disagree on upgrade materials, they are plentiful, easy to find, and they can be purchased. The cost is irrelevant, there are so many easy farm spots in the game that makes buying up any smithing stones you need a breeze. One 5 minute trip to Mohgwyn's Palace (did you not go here?) and you have enough to purchase the materials and fully upgrade a weapon. Not to mention the large surplus of runes I'd have just running around playing the game. Hell, by end game bosses are drowning you in runes.

I could have tried more builds but I didn't need to, I found ones that I had fun with and kept it moving.

Maroxad is such an Elden Ring hater😱You're surpassing mesome at this point. You're constantly making stuff up, and come up with excuses lol. That's not how criticism works. I told you that you were annoyed by the fact that ER has completely stolen the show from BOTW, and let me tell you something, i was right 1000%. You're annoyed by it lol. Don't worry, i will always remind you how far behind BOTW is when compared to ER😎

@Maroxad: Elden Ring doesnt teach you to conserve your resources? Oh so theres an abundance of every single item? You dont have to make sure every point you put into your stats is carefully thought out because the cost of leveling up doesnt rise each level? And what is this garbage about hoarding resources being a problem in video games? What the hell?

Ok its clear to me now we are just arguing personal preferences. I dont think anyones minds are going to be changed here. Again to the original topic post, no shit a single player game has a big drop off. This happens with every game. I would like to see how fast ppl dropped BOTW and the stats on how many ppl beat it but whatever. It wont mean anything important. Just like how unimportant this thread is.

Its not his personal preferences. He has an agenda. That agenda is to hate on the game because ER has eclipsed BOTW, a game he is a massive fanboy off of (same thing with mesome and casey before he got banned). They just cannot handle the fact that ER is getting all the attention and praise. Sheep are like that😊

Nice... so you have to go and farm and waste your time. To ensure new weapons are up to date. And why are you bringing up late game zones? You cannot enter those late game zones until the late game.

How exactly does a completely unnecessary grind like that encourage or reward testing out a variety of weapons? In Nioh, I find a new weapon that looks interesting, I equip it, and if I dont like it I can discard it and move on. I dont need to invest in weapons first before I can make them competitive.

So you entered the underground then. Good on you. I didnt enter the underground until the late game. And until I did I had maybe 2-3 larval tears. WHY THE HELL would I want to expend such limited resources just to try a single weapon? What then what if I dont like them, respec back to my old build, only to find a int weapon I want to try out? The respec argument is terrible. It ignores human psychology, and the game's distribution of resources. I am glad respecing is there, but respecing is not an excuse for the unnecessary Str/Dex divide.

The current spec system does not lend well to experimentation. And I think you are underestimating how conservative gamers are with resources.

Compared to an old school shooter, roguelike and even BotW. Hahahahahaha, hell no!

Everything you mentioned is not in the moment to moment gameplay. It is all handled in menus during downtime with no real urgency or particularly notable consequences. You manage resources like souls for rewards, not to merely survive. In a roguelike, if you cannot manage resources you will die and start from the beginning with a new character. In a fps if you cannot manage ammunition, you will probably die unless you are Mike Tyson. In Elden Ring, if you cannot manage your resources, you can just grind up more if you really need to. There is no real thought required, just pump more souls/runes into the stats you like.

Resource hoarding is an issue. It means that the item economy is balanced in such a way that the demand for consumable resources is far too low. It is often the result of tacked on items or really poor balancing. And because players can hoard resources, it most likely leads to either frustration, anxiety or other bad things. But most importantly, because players are able to hoard, probably encourages (and "rewards") bad habits. I used to be a resource hoarder myself, then I started speedrunning.

If you want resources to mean anything in your game, have them related to opportnity costs and whatnot. If you can grind extra resources with no consequence, then why even have resource management to begin with. It is just a waste of time.

Games shouldnt encourage liberal use of consumables either. But hoarding is arguably the worst habit you can build up. At least liberal use of consumables can work in frantic games like Super Mario World.

There are reasons From Soft moved away from grass in Demons' to Flasks in later games.

And yes, it is my personal preference that Elden Ring is the worst game I have played in over 12 months. It fixed none of my issues with previous games, and only added a vast open and empty world that added nothing to the combat, which always excelled in smaller tighter spaces.

Long Stor

@Maroxad: The palace is mid game, not late. You can enter there early game even. Hardly a grind either. The rest of your points I've covered.

He is just gonna nitpick your points lol. Trying his absolutely best to spread some made up negativity for anything ER related for three months straight. The fact that he is complaining about Larva Tears not being given to you on a platter is just so damn laughable. IMAGINE a video game with the exploration being THE focus of the game, where they're not holding your hand, and show you where everything is. How dare this Japanese developer is asking me to be thorough while exploring. SHIT GAME. /uninstalled.

I wonder what % of those who didn't finish are completionists who got broken by Malenia? lol.

@appariti0n: Would appear majority were gamers who couldnt get past the first boss. Dude is always trying to make his gamers easier, but guess have to see how easy the next one is.

It's most likely the 4th last zone you will visit... Hardly midgame.

Just because you can enter the place early doesnt mean most people will. You can also enter Hyrule Castle early.

You did not refute my other points. The fact is, there is an unnecessary investment to be able to try out new weapons. This does not reward exploration.

... I am saying that Larval Tears due to their scarcity means that the "muh respecs" is not an excuse you want it to be. I have played plenty of RPGs with NO respeccing whatsoever and never complained.

My issue is with the awful character system, not the respecs in of themselves.

Either merge str and dex, int and faith, or make them more unique to actually have their existance justified.

Strength: Affects Damage of All Weapons and Carrying Capacity
Dex: Affects Damage of Finesse Weapons, Initiative, Armor Class, and anything that tests your reflexes
Constitution: Affects Max HP, and saves related to physical health
Intelligence: Affects Academic Skills, And the ability to cast arcane spells.
Wisdom: Affects perception (which is really helpful for detecting ambushes), faith based magic, your willpower
Charisma: Affects your ability to lead, negotionate, manipulate, lie and set up ruses. Also used by holy classes to turn foes and to use certain innate abilites.

This is D&D 5e. Not every stat is equally balanced, but every stat has its own justification for existing and not simply being merged with another, that does the EXACT same thing but for a different weapon.

I keep hearing about her for so long. As soon as i get to her, i'll time myself to see how long it takes me to beat her, and i hard capped myself at lev80, so kinda curious. Wish she was more difficult than Sigrun on GMGOW in gow2018, but i really really doubt she is anywhere near her level.

@Maroxad: still not seeing what the issue is with resource hoarding. I have to manage my resources so i need to be careful and not just throw whatever i want whenever away on this or that. Have you ever played a survival horror game like Last of Us or Resident Evil? Would you call those games bad because you have to manage your resources or else you will have a bad time?

Lets look at it on the flip side. What if Elden Ring gave you unlimited larval tears, unlimited estus flasks, unlimited soul runes, etc? Why do you think they dont do that? Because then the game would be soo fucking easy! There would be no risk involved. I can just do whatever i want and not worry about losing anything. Sounds awful to me. That sounds way worse than managing my resources and making sure my choices matter.

Moment to moment gameplay? Please explain this because all i got from reading your reply was you dont like looking at menus too long and that doesnt create urgency. Dude, this game has a lot to do with looking at several items and choosing the best things for your build. Are you trying to imply you want to switch things on the fly all the time even during combat? Thats never been the way with these Souls games. You have to be careful. All of these games teach you to be careful with your decisions or you will die. A lot.

I feel like what you want is quite different than what the Souls formula provides. That or you got stuck on Malenia and just rage quit and now you need to vent on the forums or something. She is quite the nasty bitch so I wouldnt blame you. But keep at it and you will get her.