Epic: Second hand games are a huge issue

so we can't buy pre-owned games now according to epic? thats the only way i can afford most of my games!! money hungry ******** !

we bought the game, we should be able to sell it on. its OURS.

thegoldenpoo

"According to Capps the ratio of pirated to non-pirated versions for Crysis was a staggering 20:1"

Uh... so there are over 60million people with crysis? :shock:

Silenthps

Haha, that figure is so exaggerated. If they made a game that didn't exceed all available technology to play on high, then they might get more people to buy. I know lots of people who pirated it just to see if their computer could play it. They didn't keep it and play it through, they installed it, played about 10 minutes, realized that without high or highest settings, there is nothing special about it, and then uninstalled it.

It was basically a glorified tech demo for a lot of people. Many would never have bought it in the first place. They just wanted to see how it performed (not worth $60 to anyone)

Make games more affordable.

Period!

mamkem6

I am really surprised how much people complain about $60 games. We are lucky that they dont charge $80 considering how inflation is and how much dev costs have gone up. $60 is a deal compared to what you got back in the cartridge days when adjusting for inflation. Also games back then could cost as much as $70.Guybrush_3

I am really surprised how much people complain about $60 games. We are lucky that they dont charge $80 considering how inflation is and how much dev costs have gone up. $60 is a deal compared to what you got back in the cartridge days when adjusting for inflation. Also games back then could cost as much as $70.Guybrush_3

Inflation = 3% a year. I paid $50 all last gen (we will call it 7 years). 50*1.03 = 51.50 ----- do that seven times and you get $61.50....

So yeah, you have a point :) I was gonna argue, but I guess you can't argue with logic

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]I am really surprised how much people complain about $60 games. We are lucky that they dont charge $80 considering how inflation is and how much dev costs have gone up. $60 is a deal compared to what you got back in the cartridge days when adjusting for inflation. Also games back then could cost as much as $70.seabiscuit8686

Inflation = 3% a year. I paid $50 all last gen (we will call it 7 years). 50*1.03 = 51.50 ----- do that seven times and you get $61.50....

So yeah, you have a point :) I was gonna argue, but I guess you can't argue with logic

We have been paying $50 for 20 years. It was bound to go up eventually.

How about Epic go **** themselves? Once I buy a game, it's mine. I can sell it on if I want. Equally I can buy second hand if I want. I don't see where he's coming from at all.locopatho

Here, here. Gears is one of the most popular Live games, they've got more than just sales to fall back on... not to mention the fact that many games go out of print and buying a pre-owned copy is the only way.

PC gaming piracy is a problem that needs addressing. PC games are most often the most innovative and technologically advanced games, and if people abandon this platform, I fear greatly for the future of gaming.

@ Guybrush

Where was I for these 20 years at 50 bucks? I remember buying Chrono Trigger and Earthworm Jim for $80. And of course the standard price of N64 carts was $60.

@ Guybrush

Where was I for these 20 years at 50 bucks? I remember buying Chrono Trigger and Earthworm Jim for $80. And of course the standard price of N64 carts was $60.

TacoJelly

Was it really $60? my parents bought most of the games back then. I could have sworn that I bought a few $50 carts. I do remeber that the N64 Zelda games were $60.

Yes, make games maximum $39.99. Personally, make them $19.99 and i'd buy almost everything instead of rent them, but until then, its just not worth it at the moment. Also, second hand in every industry, so boo hoo they don't make money after the games already been bought once.

As for piracy, well that IS a real problem to be solved isnt it...

I think the Burnout Paradise guys are doing something worthwhile. In order to beat out the used games, you have to make it so that there is an incentive. There should be like seemless disk registration that ties games to your gamertag or console (Gamertag would le you play it on any console that you owned, and console allows anyone in your household to access it. If you buy a used copy, you have the option to pay a registration fee that basically makes it as if you purcahsed the game new.

Free DLC should only be given to registered gamers.

Patches should only go to registered gamers.

Paid DLC should be cheaper for registered gamers.

They should put huge graphics on the actual cover art that says all of the benefits you get from buying it new. Thats the best way imo. No customers will complain. People who buy used games aren't customers of the developer so their complaints to the developer aren't worth listening to. Buying a used game really is pretty much the same as piracy as far as developers are concerned.

Plus, Gamestop is a bunch of scum bags. The people there are all human garbage in my opinion so i'd love to see them and their families out on the street when the company goes belly up. They've sold me so much broken hardware and software over the years... they are like the most anti-gamer company ever. Jack Thompson could establish a corporation and it still wouldn't be as scum bag to gamers as Gamestop is.

Crack dealers treat their customers and suppliers with more respect that Gamestop does.

(to shadowcat) ^ not true, if you go into gamestop for anything once you get to the counter they bombard you with the "soon to be released titles" and try to get you to "reserve your copy"

i can easily say that if games were cheaper then there'd be more buying new than resell games. the thing is this, if a brand new game was $40 and the used copy was $35 but i didn't get the original packaging with the used then i think myself and most people would shell out the extra $5 for the original packaging/art/instructions etc. personally i think $30 - $40 should be the price range for new games, i'm sure companies would sell alot more first hand (ie originals, not resold/secondhand games) z4twenny

I know that GS tries to get you to reserve new games, but that's more for their benefit too. If they can presell a certain number of copies, they don't have to order as many nonsold new games which can possibly clog up the inventory if they don't sell. All of their tv ads focus on trading in your used games, why? Because that's where they can make a ton of profit. They're also just as likely to try and get you to purchase a used copy of a new game even if it's only $5 cheaper.

I'm sure people would buy a lot more games if they were cheaper too. I'd buy a lot more of a lot of things if they were cheaper. The thing is though, why do you expect game prices to be lower? Every other form of entertainment has gone up in price. Movies, videos, comics, books, music, all have increase in price over the years, not to mention things like houses, cars, food, clothes. The fact is that games cost $50 back in 1987, they cost $60 now. Not really a horrible inflation.

[QUOTE="mamkem6"]

Make games more affordable.

Period!

Animal-Mother

I know right you know how much this gens games would sell if they were still 49.99?

[QUOTE="Animal-Mother"][QUOTE="mamkem6"]

Make games more affordable.

Period!

surrealnumber5

i believe games shouldn't cost more than $40. $50 isn't bad.

but games that tell stories are nice, but they shouldn't cost too much more than something that can be more compelling like say a hardback book, or a CD, or a movie. $30 would be fine with me.

i'd take the exchange of no used games market, for universally $30 games on all platforms, or $40.

I know right you know how much this gens games would sell if they were still 49.99?

Also, second hand in every industry, so boo hoo they don't make money after the games already been bought once.

Phazevariance

organized. I live in Houston and can easily think of over 12 stores in a 10 mile radius where I can buy used games and only 1 for cds and 2 for dvds. Even considering larger ticket items like cars, most dealerships are affiliated with an automaker and get some income relating to used sales, independant used car sales are a much smaller scale.

With videogames you have 2 or 3 companies that have built this model around selling used games. How many newer copies might we find if they didn't have 2 or 3 used sitting on the shelf?

nothing realy people can do about it. i say who cares about piracy there r always ways to getting around games even on steam.

epic is just a fail ino. they just have gears and unreal tournament.

I havent ever heard of the secondary market killing the comic book industry (granted, it almost went down, but that was for a different reason), or collectibles such as Star Wars and the like. You dont see Hasbro complaining about figures they put out that are rare or variants going for alot more on the secondary market, and it certainly doesnt hurt their sales.

On the other hand, I havent sold a single game I own, either.

How about they make old games widely available and stop **** about it? Do you know how hard it was for me to find a "hard" copy of shining force III? It took me almost a year because I wanted a new one. I am usually not a console kind of person but when I want to get them it is usually an old game and the reason I stay away from consoles is the old ones are so hard to find. I think most of the new mainstream games are complete crap so I like to stay with either niche or old ones. Most of the time I can only get them through second hand or not at all. If the companies want us to stop buying these games second hand make them (older games) readily available for those of us who are willing to still pay for them.

Make games more affordable.

Period!

mamkem6

and guess what???? retailers make less then £1 profit with new games... :| second hand is how they actually manage to make any decent money - so yeah... 2 sides of the same coin ;)
pi3m4ster

lol. great point

Like the article suggested, the only way to fix PC piracy is to follow a platform similar to STEAM. Anything else besides that is a cheap band-aid solution. Blue-Sky

Another console for pc type games...your joking right? Nothing can beat the pc and also the pc has lots of other things it can do besides play games. pc is the best hands down just as long as you have the specs to play the games. There are already consoles that are trying to be like pc's such as the ps3 but nothing is better than the pc.

Second hand movies trade hands constantly and theres no moaning from the movie industry. second hand music trades hands and theres no moaning from the music industry. second hand cars, furniture, houses, consoles, computers and so on trade hands and none of those respecive industries are moaning. and yet the games industry, studdering luddite that it is, is moaning about it.

industry....we have a right to trade our stuff. the licence to the game belongs to us...thats what we fork out 70 quid for. if the industry is not clever enough to take advantage of what has prooven to be a very lucerative market then thats their problem. frankly, the customer shouldnt give a toss on this front.

i will support endeavours to try and curb piracy (within reason). there thieves and should have their computers destroyed + a minimum of a 5 year ban from any technology beyond a very basic mobile phone imho.

but we have a right to trade our stuff that we have paid for. what next...knock out the renting market because the industry has no idea how to take advantage of that (despite movies being very happy to support renting)?

i am absolutely against any move that hinders the free trade of stuff we own. thats a pretty basic right.. trade should not be made exclusive to companies. i am as against hindering the second hand market as i am against piracy.

so they should stop there moaning and start finding ways to take advantage of it.

in the end though..for all of the above...its going to come to an end in 10 years or less. digital distribution is probably going to kill it off. u cant trade stuff bought on steam or the VC or PSN or xbox live. hell not even impulse (those lovable guys :) ) allows u to trade a game. im all for DD....except for this very contentious point. a point that needs sorting imho.

[QUOTE="mamkem6"]

Make games more affordable.

Period!

tbolt76

That's the old chicken or the egg argument. If they lower the prices, would they sell more new games or are the prices high because they are competing against their own product in the second hand market?

If they sold the game for $49.99, would people stop buying second hand...no.

When people buy second hand, they cannot recoup the production costs, making raising initial sale prices the only way for them to recoup costs

For every million selling game (GoW, MGS4 etc.) there are 5 games that flop (Too Human, Haze etc.).

Not to mention, the second hand market is ridiculously unbalanced.

Take a new release game to get $15 cash or $18 credit and the 2nd hand store turns around to sell it for $54.99. I can get games from the internet, brand new, for that price. Or they give you $1.00 for a game "that is hard to sell" and sell that for $19.99.

Sell the game for $30 and they'll sell to more people.  Retailers will not be able to offer $15.00 per game for used games and will have to offer less to gamers for their used games which will discourage most from selling their games.  The retailer will have to sell the game at $20+ for the used game to be profitable and at those prices, most will likely go for the new game rather than the old one.

I think what Epic did with Gears of War 2 by having the exclusive Gears of War 1 remake maps pack in the box for new games only . is the best way to deal used games  

Make games more affordable.

Period!

mamkem6

1. Games = free.

2. Games = Ad-supported.

Problem solved. Piracy = dead. Developers = bajillionares. Everybody stops complaining, start forcusing on making games better. Advertisers pay less for more exposure. We get to see new products instead of a load bar. Everybody is happy.

You're welcome, Epic.

Like the article suggested, the only way to fix PC piracy is to follow a platform similar to STEAM. Anything else besides that is a cheap band-aid solution. Blue-Sky

Correct but these people aren't willing to put in the effort to realize that.

To them as long as the console market brings them in more money for less effort they will go that route until it turns into the pc environment.

1. Games = free.

2. Games = Ad-supported.

Problem solved. Piracy = dead. Developers = bajillionares. Everybody stops complaining, start forcusing on making games better. Advertisers pay less for more exposure. We get to see new products instead of a load bar. Everybody is happy.

You're welcome, Epic.

 

t3hTwinky

I can see it now. Master Cheif wearing Nikes and drinking Coke while Bilboards for Dell computers are posted all aroudn the Halo and every load point has 5 minutes of commercials.

[QUOTE="t3hTwinky"]

1. Games = free.

2. Games = Ad-supported.

Problem solved. Piracy = dead. Developers = bajillionares. Everybody stops complaining, start forcusing on making games better. Advertisers pay less for more exposure. We get to see new products instead of a load bar. Everybody is happy.

You're welcome, Epic.

 

Guybrush_3

I can see it now. Master Cheif wearing Nikes and drinking Coke while Bilboards for Dell computers are posted all aroudn the Halo and every load point has 5 minutes of commercials.

for a free game ill deal with that

Make games more affordable.

Period!

mamkem6

Crysis retailed at half the price of a console game. It was a bargain; people still pirated the hell out of it. Heck, if games cost 10 bucks people would still save the 10 bucks and get it for free if the option was there. 

[QUOTE="mamkem6"]

Make games more affordable.

Period!

Toriko42

Mate, were I live games are 100-110 American Dollars.

Used are 60.

Great price my a**!

we can do whatever we want if our properties, as long as we don't use it for any illicit means. i can sell my games to whoever i want, rent it, or whatever. limiting that right is an offense to democracy, to the fundamental principles of liberty and freedom of choice.SambaLele

Read the fine print. You do not own the software, you purchase the license to use it. The "game" (code) is the sole property of the developer. You cannot rent a bought game either.

Ehttp://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55828pic

Wow, that's bad! I hope they'll sort it out and get people buying brand new games! Stupid people are killing the gaming industries by renting and buying second hand games! :evil:GaMeR_Willz

Careful 

I'm not offended by that, but someone could get offended