Eurogamer writer criticizes critics, loses his job, the Kraken is released

Geoff is doing the right thing and not saying anything until it blows over. That's how you survive such a crappy business.Wainwright should be ashamed of herself, though I'm not quite surprised since she's obviously not the only corrupted journalist.

And those making personal attacks about her are indeed f*cking idiots who don't see more than 5 seconds ahead.

I would have a bit more sympathy for this Florence guy if his original piece wasn't such melodramatic dreck, or more importantly, if he had actually brought any revelatory examples to light. What he's going on about there is somewhat gross, but it also isn't surprising in the least.

You have to remember that as much as some writers are happy being corralled by PR, just as many love the idea that they're Speaking Truth To Power and that they might someday be recognized as True Journalists if enough of their pieces get edited against their will. The fact that they're saying something corporations might not like does not immediately validate what they're saying.

Unless of course you're the average SW poster, in which case anything that eases your butthurt over years of disagreement with review scores must be true.

Cherokee_Jack

Then making bizarre insinuations about how he suffers ridiculous confirmation bias to the degree that he made himself lose his job to validate his claims that PR and press appear a bit too buddy-buddy is just crazy. Especially since you're at the same time implying that what he's saying is widely known.

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

I would have a bit more sympathy for this Florence guy if his original piece wasn't such melodramatic dreck, or more importantly, if he had actually brought any revelatory examples to light. What he's going on about there is somewhat gross, but it also isn't surprising in the least.

You have to remember that as much as some writers are happy being corralled by PR, just as many love the idea that they're Speaking Truth To Power and that they might someday be recognized as True Journalists if enough of their pieces get edited against their will. The fact that they're saying something corporations might not like does not immediately validate what they're saying.

Unless of course you're the average SW poster, in which case anything that eases your butthurt over years of disagreement with review scores must be true.

McStrongfast

Then making bizarre insinuations about how he suffers ridiculous confirmation bias to the degree that he made himself lose his job to validate his claims that PR and press appear a bit too buddy-buddy is just crazy. Especially since you're at the same time implying that what he's saying is widely known.

Very informative thread, I had no idea what this fuzz was all about. Here are my thoughts:

I'm against personal attacks over the internet. But I'm against censorship even more.

And I don't get why some people treat gaming journalists as messiahs, taking every word they say as the ultimate truth. Clinging to scores like their life depends on it. Saying stuff like a 10 game > a 9 game...

There are plenty of 9 games I thought were **** and plenty of 6 or lower scoring games I loved to death.

The game I played the most over the past year is probably Age of Empires Online and that game scored only a 6.5 here. I would have missed out on a lot of great games if I soley went by what gaming journalists said and I would advise anyone to make up their own mind about games.

Unfortunatly I don't see that happening any time soon.

And as for Lauren Wainwright, I hope she stops working in this industry or at least I hope she lost all her credibility

Instead of admitting her mistakes she does her best to cover everything up and lie about it all. That's just pathetic.

Once again it's proven: the internet NEVER forgets

This sort of thing was bound to happen, infact I am surprised it has taken this long.

I have always said gaming journalism was in the toilet, if its not 'nobodies' looking for hits. Its well 'respected' publications taking bits on the side..

There's definitely a problem with jounalism in this industry.

Mind you, that problem is probably everywhere.

LOL at people are just not realizing there is corruption and that people are selling scores. GTA IV anyone?Easyle

I thought it was pretty damn good at the time. Multiplayer was a bit... disorganised.

And as for Lauren Wainwright, I hope she stops working in this industry or at least I hope she lost all her credibility

Instead of admitting her mistakes she does her best to cover everything up and lie about it all. That's just pathetic.

Once again it's proven: the internet NEVER forgets

R4gn4r0k

Seriously although miss Wainwright is the tip of the iceberg and is being singled out,she just encapsulates all that is wrong with gaming "journalism".

This is a woman who openly boasts about having friends in high places who can get her "access",who has no problem publicizing the free goodies she gets from devs-she even calls herself swag slag:? Who admits she works for Square-enix then sees no problem or conflict of interest with "reviewing" their games, no problem with endlessly tweeting about or covering her twitter profile with the new Lara croft game and no problem with tweeting about a new FF13 X-2 Advertisement to her followers( a game she personally consulted with SE on!)

And don't forget she or her "people" allegedly threatened a fellow journalist with libel.(A cardinal sin in the UK when you consider our backward and despicable libel laws our routinely used by powerful people to silence our media.)

I'm not saying she is corrupt,but her actions before and after this incident don't exactly scream "I'm an objective and unbiased journalist" do they?

[QUOTE="McStrongfast"]

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

I would have a bit more sympathy for this Florence guy if his original piece wasn't such melodramatic dreck, or more importantly, if he had actually brought any revelatory examples to light. What he's going on about there is somewhat gross, but it also isn't surprising in the least.

You have to remember that as much as some writers are happy being corralled by PR, just as many love the idea that they're Speaking Truth To Power and that they might someday be recognized as True Journalists if enough of their pieces get edited against their will. The fact that they're saying something corporations might not like does not immediately validate what they're saying.

Unless of course you're the average SW poster, in which case anything that eases your butthurt over years of disagreement with review scores must be true.

Cherokee_Jack

Then making bizarre insinuations about how he suffers ridiculous confirmation bias to the degree that he made himself lose his job to validate his claims that PR and press appear a bit too buddy-buddy is just crazy. Especially since you're at the same time implying that what he's saying is widely known.

Nor did I ever agree with the move to censor the article, it's obviously wrong. Rather I didn't find the article worthy of much attention in the first place, so all the commotion over it confuses me.

Not that I'm expecting one here, which would be friggin pointless anyway, this is System Wars. I only made this thread because I thought the lack of one was weird, and I do think it's of some importance that more people become exposed to what goes on behind the scenes, get more vigilant and scrutinizing towards the game media. Just not the usual "biased moneyhat" bull**** I hope.

This NeoGAF thread is a continual source of interesting back and forth on the subject.

Again, I don't understand the attitude of wanting to keep these issues from being surfaced and discussed. You say you think this kind of behavior is gross, but when the opportunity for a discussion arises, you're actively trying to suppress it.

McStrongfast

All I'm doing is commenting on the situation. I'm not sure how I've been trying to "suppress" anything.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

In the end the only opinion you can trust is your own. Reviews are only good as a reference I find, I don't use them as the end all be all like so many people on SW do. There are so many flaws in reviews, many of them are questionable.

Take GS, lately I get the feeling they give out low reviews just to stir controversy and get more site traffic, and then I also get the feeling some sites will just give certain games high scores simply because of the name that's on it, or the fanbase that backs it. I found the review for ODST to be very questionable, there is no way that game deserved a 9. It was far too short and lacking for that.

Now if that was the guys honest opinion, then so be it. But really I seriously doubt that if ODST didn't have Halo on the box, say it was some other shooter name, it would have gotten that same score.

But in the end reviews are just subjective, no reason to get bent out of shape over it. But you would be naive not to believe that bias does exist in game journalism, it exists in news journalism and film journalism, it sure as hell exists in video games.

TopTierHustler

The guy was getting death threats.

[QUOTE="McStrongfast"]Again, I don't understand the attitude of wanting to keep these issues from being surfaced and discussed. You say you think this kind of behavior is gross, but when the opportunity for a discussion arises, you're actively trying to suppress it.

Cherokee_Jack

All I'm doing is commenting on the situation. I'm not sure how I've been trying to "suppress" anything.

Anything that ends up helping expose this kind of crap should be considered agood thing. If gaming journalism doesn't improve professionally then gaming will never be taken seriously as a medium. Could you imagine a world where Michael Bay films receive critical acclaim while cerebral films like There Will Be Blood simply got shrugged off? That's basically the state that gaming journalism is in right now. Mindless explosion fests like Call of Duty garner glowing praise while games that take risks and dare to be something more get little to no attention. It's pretty ridiculous and needs to be corrected.

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

[QUOTE="McStrongfast"]Again, I don't understand the attitude of wanting to keep these issues from being surfaced and discussed. You say you think this kind of behavior is gross, but when the opportunity for a discussion arises, you're actively trying to suppress it.

Master_ShakeXXX

All I'm doing is commenting on the situation. I'm not sure how I've been trying to "suppress" anything.

Anything that ends up helping expose this kind of crap should be considered agood thing. If gaming journalism doesn't improve professionally then gaming will never be taken seriously as a medium. Could you imagine a world where Michael Bay films receive critical acclaim while cerebral films like There Will Be Blood simply got shrugged off? That's basically the state that gaming journalism is in right now. Mindless explosion fests like Call of Duty garner glowing praise while games that take risks and dare to be something more get little to no attention. It's pretty ridiculous and needs to be corrected.

From what I've read, the poster you quoted (not the tc), is very pro-game media for some reason, maybe he has friends of family, or plans on being in that profession himself? Otherwise I can't see why anyone would defend such behavior.

Could you imagine a world where Michael Bay films receive critical acclaim while cerebral films like There Will Be Blood simply got shrugged off? That's basically the state that gaming journalism is in right now. Mindless explosion fests like Call of Duty garner glowing praise while games that take risks and dare to be something more get little to no attention. It's pretty ridiculous and needs to be corrected.

Master_ShakeXXX

Horsesh!t.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Could you imagine a world where Michael Bay films receive critical acclaim while cerebral films like There Will Be Blood simply got shrugged off? That's basically the state that gaming journalism is in right now. Mindless explosion fests like Call of Duty garner glowing praise while games that take risks and dare to be something more get little to no attention. It's pretty ridiculous and needs to be corrected.

Cherokee_Jack

Horsesh!t.

And how much attention does the gaming media give to those above four games in comparison to something like Warfighter? Exactly, not much. This will also be made irrelevant when Halo 4 and Black Ops 2 releases and outshines them all.

And how much attention does the gaming media give to those above four games in comparison to something like Warfighter? Exactly, not much.Master_ShakeXXX

:lol: :lol:

[QUOTE="Timstuff"]

This is why I do not trust big review sites / magazines much anymore. I like smaller websites like Blistered Thumbs where the reviewers have to buy their own copies of the games, because they will give you their honest opinion. If they feel ripped off by a crappy game, they will make sure you know about it because they had to reach into their own pocket to play it instead of having a big publisher send it to them for free, along with a bunch of other swag to help sway their opinion.

If you wait for reviews of that sort, you will get a much better sense of whether or not a game is worth buying. I find that it's not so bad to have to wait a few days to get the verdict if it means that the publisher's money is not influencing the reviewer. I have yet to see Angry Joe give a bad game a good review.

ShadowMoses900

I have often noticed that many reviewers get free things when a game comes out, I have even heard of cases where the reviewer and his/her family will get an all expenses paid vacation. Is that actually true?

It's true, just recently GiantBomb got 3 large pizzas from EA along with the review copy of MOH.

It's true, just recently GianBomb got 3 large pizzas from EA along with the review copy of MOH.EZs

Yeah, which bought them 3 large stars and a pretty derisive Quick Look.

But I think it was more a gesture of goodwill rather than an attempt to get more favorable coverage. Not everyone working on the PR side is evil (or indeed, dumb enough to think that they could sway Giant Bomb with free pizza)

[QUOTE="R4gn4r0k"]

And as for Lauren Wainwright, I hope she stops working in this industry or at least I hope she lost all her credibility

Instead of admitting her mistakes she does her best to cover everything up and lie about it all. That's just pathetic.

Once again it's proven: the internet NEVER forgets

stvee101

Seriously although miss Wainwright is the tip of the iceberg and is being singled out,she just encapsulates all that is wrong with gaming "journalism".

This is a woman who openly boasts about having friends in high places who can get her "access",who has no problem publicizing the free goodies she gets from devs-she even calls herself swag slag:? Who admits she works for Square-enix then sees no problem or conflict of interest with "reviewing" their games, no problem with endlessly tweeting about or covering her twitter profile with the new Lara croft game and no problem with tweeting about a new FF13 X-2 Advertisement to her followers( a game she personally consulted with SE on!)

And don't forget she or her "people" allegedly threatened a fellow journalist with libel.(A cardinal sin in the UK when you consider our backward and despicable libel laws our routinely used by powerful people to silence our media.)

I'm not saying she is corrupt,but her actions before and after this incident don't exactly scream "I'm an objective and unbiased journalist" do they?

It's pretty simple really: either she works for gaming news sites or she works for a gaming publisher. She can't do both and she doesn't seem to understand the problem with working for both.

Yeah I'm sure there are more like her. The guy who wrote the article even writes about loving to stalk "gaming journalists" (can we even call them that?) who do nothing but go to PR events to score free swag and boast about it on twitter.

To be honest I personally dont call someone who talks about games and scores them a journalist. Its just some person who says their piece on a game and tells us some info and thats it.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Could you imagine a world where Michael Bay films receive critical acclaim while cerebral films like There Will Be Blood simply got shrugged off? That's basically the state that gaming journalism is in right now. Mindless explosion fests like Call of Duty garner glowing praise while games that take risks and dare to be something more get little to no attention. It's pretty ridiculous and needs to be corrected.

Cherokee_Jack

Horsesh!t.

MotN was sweet though.

To be fair, I'm hearing dishonored was over rated. More deserving of a 7.

MotN was sweet though.

TopTierHustler

For every 9+ game there are people that think it is overrated. Literally every game.

To me it deserved even more than 91

Why is that? I know this is a circus full of ostensibly vapid characters and poop, but still, do people really care that little about the integrity of the games press? McStrongfast

[QUOTE="McStrongfast"]

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

I would have a bit more sympathy for this Florence guy if his original piece wasn't such melodramatic dreck, or more importantly, if he had actually brought any revelatory examples to light. What he's going on about there is somewhat gross, but it also isn't surprising in the least.

You have to remember that as much as some writers are happy being corralled by PR, just as many love the idea that they're Speaking Truth To Power and that they might someday be recognized as True Journalists if enough of their pieces get edited against their will. The fact that they're saying something corporations might not like does not immediately validate what they're saying.

Unless of course you're the average SW poster, in which case anything that eases your butthurt over years of disagreement with review scores must be true.

Cherokee_Jack

Then making bizarre insinuations about how he suffers ridiculous confirmation bias to the degree that he made himself lose his job to validate his claims that PR and press appear a bit too buddy-buddy is just crazy. Especially since you're at the same time implying that what he's saying is widely known.

Wow at the neogaf thread. Lots of good info there.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Could you imagine a world where Michael Bay films receive critical acclaim while cerebral films like There Will Be Blood simply got shrugged off? That's basically the state that gaming journalism is in right now. Mindless explosion fests like Call of Duty garner glowing praise while games that take risks and dare to be something more get little to no attention. It's pretty ridiculous and needs to be corrected.

Cherokee_Jack

Horsesh!t.

and metal of honor won't get more attention then all those other games combined? seems to me like someone is a little delusional. WilliamRLBaker

Seems to me someone didn't notice that shake responded with exactly the same weak rebuttal and I explained rather well why he was wrong.

The crux of your argument, however, stands upon the speculation that Florence was acting all high and mighty for an image. You would actively have to prove that he was jumping at an opportunity for personal gain. If he was acting out of genuine concern for what he was experiencing at the time, then your argument has no merit.FrozenLiquid

Well it wasn't so much a full-blown "argument". I wasn't trying to prove that it was one way or another. I was simply warning people not to immediately paint this black and white, because the tendency on SW (and most of the internet really) is to lionize anyone who crosses corporations.

So Sniper was right all along ?

[QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Could you imagine a world where Michael Bay films receive critical acclaim while cerebral films like There Will Be Blood simply got shrugged off? That's basically the state that gaming journalism is in right now. Mindless explosion fests like Call of Duty garner glowing praise while games that take risks and dare to be something more get little to no attention. It's pretty ridiculous and needs to be corrected.

WilliamRLBaker

Horsesh!t.

He was specifically talking about gaming journalism favouring michael bay experiences over other games... you are talking about something else.

In neogaf there are even picture of him making propaganda for Mountain Dew,that is the problems with game journalist they are sell outs,now more than ever if more about advertisement than anything else,this site proved that long time ago when they fire Jeff to keep endorsement with a company.tormentos

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"][QUOTE="Cherokee_Jack"]

Horsesh!t.

GD1551

He was specifically talking about gaming journalism favouring michael bay experiences over other games... you are talking about something else.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="WilliamRLBaker"] and metal of honor won't get more attention then all those other games combined? seems to me like someone is a little delusional. As for that medal of honor got its score because its a legitimately horrible game like most of the medal of honors in the recent years have been. Doesn't change the fact it will get far more notice. COD may not be horrible from a gameplay standpoint but from a innovation, and evolution standpoint its trash it hasn't changed except in the most arbitrary ways its released every year.savagetwinkie

He was specifically talking about gaming journalism favouring michael bay experiences over other games... you are talking about something else.

I don't follow, using XCOM was his point and is a very relevant example.

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="GD1551"]

He was specifically talking about gaming journalism favouring michael bay experiences over other games... you are talking about something else.

GD1551

I don't follow, using XCOM was his point and is a very relevant example.

But I think it was more a gesture of goodwill rather than an attempt to get more favorable coverage.Cherokee_Jack