Fallout 3. Change is good, as long as it's done properly. (Sorta long read)

Obviously if you've been in SW long enough, you might've ran into a Fallout fanboy in which most of them are in anger and disgust into one of the most anticipated games of the year, Fallout 3.

You can argue that they have the right to complain and others just want them to shut up. Everyone hyping Fallout 3 mostly say the following things to Fallout fanboys:

"Change is good"

"The Fallout 3 you want looks outdated and boring."

"Sorry that we don't wanna play in isometric camera like you elitist hermits"

"Turn based combat is boring"

"Puppies are cute. But they tend to crap all over your carpet" (Don't mind this one)

I don't think any Fallout fanboy is afraid of change. To the ones who are then that's their problem for being stuck in the past. I think it's that the changes Bethesda made to Fallout is something that made the fans upset because it doesn't stay true to the decade old Fallout games like its heavy role-playing elements, atmosphere, mature content, etc. I don't know any FO fan who wanted this one to look similar to how FO 1 and 2 is. It's ridiculous to even think that.

They find that Beth is making the game not feel like Fallout. But the worst thing about it is that they have the ability to both make Fallout 3 feel like a Fallout game while having it appeal to the current gen market.

I want to mention BioWare and Dragon Age. When BioWare started off in the industry they made what's arguably the greatest RPG ever made: Baldur's Gate 2.

Dragon Age is acting as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2, and it has satisfied both BG and longtime BioWare fans as well as RPG fans in general based on the footage shown so far. It has the BG feeling as well as it looking like a current generation game.

You don't see Baldur's Gate fanboys running around about how pissed they are on how Dragon Age is looking. Because it looks good.

So if BioWare can make their game appeal to both fans and newcomers alike, why couldn't Bethesda do the same thing? It could've worked if they tried to make it appeal to both fronts.

I'm also aware that DA could be an unfair example considering that it's not a direct sequal. But it's relevent in a way.

I personally am a longtime Fallout fan (played and finished numerous times all the previous Fallouts when they were released) and it is sort of disturbing where Bethesda is taking the Fallout series. However, i enjoyed Morrowind ALOT and Oblivion to a lesser extent so I'm more than open to them doing stuff with Fallout as long as it's done well (as you said). I'm on the fence about the game right now. I do think it has potential though.

Your Dragon Age comparison is a bit off IMO seeing as Fallout games were never made by Bethesda whereas Bioware made both the Baldurs Gate titles and is doing Dragon Age. But i do get what you're saying.

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

RuprechtMonkey

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

RuprechtMonkey

LOL @ adam sessler, I remember when people bashed halo he made a QQ video. Please don't use him as credibility against fanboys when he is one himself.

Anyway, you apparently didn't read the OP he didn't say anything about catering to one audience, but nice try though.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

mo0ksi

Yes. You didn't watch the video did you?

You're deciding that the changes Bethesda making are not good, not done "properly," because you have deemed them to be so. Because you have deemed it to be "not faithful" to the series so you believe the game to be somewhat of a shame, that is the height of arrogance and the exact reason everyone has been laughing at the tiny, extremely vocal group of Fallout loyalists that have been spouting out the same tired talking points for the last year or so. That opinion reminds me of a very early Fallout 3 reviewI read recently by some unkown Swedish Fallout loyalist, who was angry and upset that it wasn't faithful enough to the original games.

Bethesda has no responsibility to you whatsoever. If you don't want to play the game DO NOT PLAY THE GAME.

Fallout 3 will be critically acclimed and well loved by a ton of people, it will also be endlessly bashed by the same people who have been bashing it for the last year regardless of how it turns out because, to them, it isn't enough like the originals. The only people who will care about what those people say are those people themselves, I don't think they understand this.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

Espada12

LOL @ adam sessler, I remember when people bashed halo he made a QQ video. Please don't use him as credibility against fanboys when he is one himself.

Anyway, you apparently didn't read the OP he didn't say anything about catering to one audience, but nice try though.

Yes, because the posters in System Wars are clearly more credible than Adam Sessler or the points he makes in the video.

System Wars is the absolute pinnacle of rational discussion.

[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

RuprechtMonkey

LOL @ adam sessler, I remember when people bashed halo he made a QQ video. Please don't use him as credibility against fanboys when he is one himself.

Anyway, you apparently didn't read the OP he didn't say anything about catering to one audience, but nice try though.

Yes, because the posters in System Wars are clearly more credible than Adam Sessler or the points he makes in the video.

System Wars is the absolute pinnacle of rational discussion.

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:, are you one of those who think a reviewers opinion is better than other people's?

[QUOTE="mo0ksi"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

RuprechtMonkey

Yes. You didn't watch the video did you?

You're deciding that the changes Bethesda making are not good, not done "properly," because you have deemed them to be so. Because you have deemed it to be "not faithful" to the series so you believe the game to be somewhat of a shame, that is the height of arrogance and the exact reason everyone has been laughing at the tiny, extremely vocal group of Fallout loyalists that have been spouting out the same tired talking points for the last year or so. That opinion reminds me of a very early Fallout 3 reviewI read recently by some unkown Swedish Fallout loyalist, who was angry and upset that it wasn't faithful enough to the original games.

Bethesda has no responsibility to you whatsoever. If you don't want to play the game DO NOT PLAY THE GAME.

Fallout 3 will be critically acclimed and well loved by a ton of people, it will also be endlessly bashed by the same people who have been bashing it for the last year regardless of how it turns out because, to them, it isn't enough like the originals. The only people who will care about what those people say are those people themselves, I don't think they understand this.

Most people having problems with the game are dissapointed that the Humor and story of the originals wasn't somehow put into Fallout 3. Both were literally just ripped out. How would you feel if in Gears 3 they completely redid the story and completely ignored the story from Gears 1 and 2? It's the same principle. The gameplay changes are welcome IMO seeing as it's a new day and age and having the old Fallout titles looks would be fairly odd. That being said, Bethesda has a responsiblity to everyone if they hope to sell copies. I'm also sure they're doing their best putting the game together making hardcores/old Fallout players as well as casuals happy.

[QUOTE="mo0ksi"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

RuprechtMonkey

Yes. You didn't watch the video did you?

You're deciding that the changes Bethesda making are not good, not done "properly," because you have deemed them to be so. Because you have deemed it to be "not faithful" to the series so you believe the game to be somewhat of a shame, that is the height of arrogance and the exact reason everyone has been laughing at the tiny, extremely vocal group of Fallout loyalists that have been spouting out the same tired talking points for the last year or so. That opinion reminds me of a very early Fallout 3 reviewI read recently by some unkown Swedish Fallout loyalist, who was angry and upset that it wasn't faithful enough to the original games.

Bethesda has no responsibility to you whatsoever. If you don't want to play the game DO NOT PLAY THE GAME.

Fallout 3 will be critically acclimed and well loved by a ton of people, it will also be endlessly bashed by the same people who have been bashing it for the last year regardless of how it turns out. THe only people who will care about what those people say are those people themselves.

They're not done properly by failing to make a transition of the great gameplay the original Fallout carries onto the current generation. They could add in and enhance more features if they wanted to and people on both fronts would've liked what they saw.

I honestly don't know where I'm being arrogant when all I said was that Bethesda could've made the game appealing on both fronts instead of mainly one.

Also I watched the video a while ago. I take Sessler's words with a mountain of salt and the Diablo 3 issues is nowhere near the magnitude of the Fallout 3 issue. Diablo fanboys were upset about color. FO fanboys were upset about butchered gameplay.

Which one hurts more I wonder?

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"][QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

It will be done properly, the game will be critically acclaimed and loved by its fans, and thinking Bethesda should cater the game they OWN to you and a tiny, tiny group of insane fanboys is extremely arrogant.

This sums it up well, he even cites Fallout 3 specifically:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/videos/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Fanboys/

Espada12

LOL @ adam sessler, I remember when people bashed halo he made a QQ video. Please don't use him as credibility against fanboys when he is one himself.

Anyway, you apparently didn't read the OP he didn't say anything about catering to one audience, but nice try though.

Yes, because the posters in System Wars are clearly more credible than Adam Sessler or the points he makes in the video.

System Wars is the absolute pinnacle of rational discussion.

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:, are you one of those who think a reviewers opinion is better than other people's?

The entire premise of System Wars is irrational and absurd. I believe the average person who plays games, game reviewer or otherwise, is far more credible (when it comes to being rational about topics in the gaming world) because they don't see everything in the industry through absurdly strong fanboy goggles. Asking the average System Wars poster for information on a given gaming topic is like asking a McCain campaign spokesperson (or an Obama spokesperson) for an "honest" take on current political matters, they are so tethered to a specific platform that an absurdly biased, often irrational response is implied.

Anyone who believes the endlessly Fallout 3 bashing seen in this forum is somehow indicative of a rational response to the game is not that bright.

You calm now? Good.

They're not done properly by failing to make a transition of the great gameplay the original Fallout carries onto the current generation. They could add in and enhance more features if they wanted to and people on both fronts would've liked what they saw.

I honestly don't know where I'm being arrogant when all I said was that Bethesda could've made the game appealing on both fronts instead of mainly one.

Also I watched the video a while ago. I take Sessler's words with a mountain of salt and the Diablo 3 issues is nowhere near the magnitude of the Fallout 3 issue. Diablo fanboys were upset about color. FO fanboys were upset about butchered gameplay.

Which one hurts more I wonder?

mo0ksi

being a hardcore fan of both diablo and fallout i'd say neither are concerns and neither hurt in the least. i have no sympathy for gaming purists (which is what you should call them). their concerns breach any logical discussion and bleed in to the emotional - there is nothing you could do to make them 100% happy, ever. it's something devs have had to deal with (or more rightfully so, ignore) since gaming sequels first appeared.

when you press fallout purists on these issues they immediately buckle too, none of them seem to be able to offer up real explanations for the way they feel when directly presented with evidence that the previous 2 had many changes (from 1 to 2) in terms of tone and humour.

i think a lot of people out there just love fallout 2 and want the 3 to be more like 2. that's the best conclusion we could come to when trying to pick their brains before the flurry of RETCON screams overwhelmed us. i just laugh when that happens because every fictional world we love has retcons, from LOTR to ST to SW to 90210 (if thats your thing). change happens, get used to it. start approaching things based on what they are, not what they aren't.

I'd rather they complain AFTER we see more of the game. i haven't seen much on how the VAT system will work, we havent seen much of the world, or lore. it just looks like people jumping to attack the FPSing. they said that if the player wanders into a higher level area, they will be destroyed with ease....if its a simple FPS, how dose that make sense?

I've stopped long ago caring what people think about this game. It looks good to me and that's all that matters. I'm a fan of both of the original Fallouts and I've even played Wasteland which is basically the beginning of the Fallout series. I really don't get the whining, but whatever. It's the most anticipated game on my very long list of games this holiday season and from what I've seen, I'll have no problem enjoying it.

You calm now? Good.

They're not done properly by failing to make a transition of the great gameplay the original Fallout carries onto the current generation. They could add in and enhance more features if they wanted to and people on both fronts would've liked what they saw.

I honestly don't know where I'm being arrogant when all I said was that Bethesda could've made the game appealing on both fronts instead of mainly one.

Also I watched the video a while ago. I take Sessler's words with a mountain of salt and the Diablo 3 issues is nowhere near the magnitude of the Fallout 3 issue. Diablo fanboys were upset about color. FO fanboys were upset about butchered gameplay.

Which one hurts more I wonder?

mo0ksi

Haha, "Calm now?" I was calm to begin with , just think this topic is funny. You're still not understanding what makes your entire argument so absurd. You have hobbled together a collection of restrictions on what Bethesda should do to make Fallout 3, their own property, acceptable IN YOUR EYES, they are not beholden to you or the tiny group of perpetually complaining fanboys of like mind. If they made the changes you're suggesting they would likely upset many more people than they would otherwise satisfy. What FO fanboys do not realize is the only people that seriously consider what they say are other FO fanboys (which is why it can be discussed so often in a forum with a premise as insane as this one's,) everyone else sees it rationally, as the ridiculous waste of time and effort that it is.

If you don't like the idea of the game, do not buy or play the game.

THAT is the only sensible solution to your "problem."

The entire premise of System Wars is irrational and absurd. I believe the average person who plays games, game reviewer or otherwise, is far more credible (when it comes to being rational about topics in the gaming world) because they don't see everything in the industry through absurdly strong fanboy goggles. Asking the average System Wars poster for information on a given gaming topic is like asking a McCain campaign spokesperson (or an Obama spokesperson) for an "honest" take on current political matters, they are so tethered to a specific platform that an absurdly biased, often irrational response is implied.

Anyone who believes the endlessly Fallout 3 bashing seen in this forum is somehow indicative of a rational response to the game is not that bright.

RuprechtMonkey

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/679947/Sesslers_Soapbox_Dear_Halo_Haters.html

Now I don't disagree with you, but my first post was basically, saying adam sessler was a bad choice, and that link takes you to the reason why.

I'd rather they complain AFTER we see more of the game. i haven't seen much on how the VAT system will work, we havent seen much of the world, or lore. it just looks like people jumping to attack the FPSing. they said that if the player wanders into a higher level area, they will be destroyed with ease....if its a simple FPS, how dose that make sense?

hip-hop-cola2

Truth is that it isn't a FPS. Every website and publication has it listed as "Role Playing". It's an RPG. Just because it's in first person and has guns doesn't make it a FPS. What you just stated even further shows that it's an RPG (like publications and websites having it listed as an RPG wasn't enough). It's annoying that people say this. It even has an option for third person. Fallout 3 is no less an RPG than Morrowind or Oblivion. It looks pretty good IMO but i do understand the gripes that some have regarding the humor and story being ripped out (I enjoyed the humor and story from the original Fallout's). That being said, it definitely looks good.

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:

Espada12

What are your credentials?

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

The entire premise of System Wars is irrational and absurd. I believe the average person who plays games, game reviewer or otherwise, is far more credible (when it comes to being rational about topics in the gaming world) because they don't see everything in the industry through absurdly strong fanboy goggles. Asking the average System Wars poster for information on a given gaming topic is like asking a McCain campaign spokesperson (or an Obama spokesperson) for an "honest" take on current political matters, they are so tethered to a specific platform that an absurdly biased, often irrational response is implied.

Anyone who believes the endlessly Fallout 3 bashing seen in this forum is somehow indicative of a rational response to the game is not that bright.

Espada12

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/679947/Sesslers_Soapbox_Dear_Halo_Haters.html

Now I don't disagree with you, but my first post was basically, saying adam sessler was a bad choice, and that link takes you to the reason why.

I watched that video, I don't understand why that video has anything to do with his credibility. I don't like Halo personally...So he likes Halo, and he thinks people who endlessly bash it are being silly. And? Seems rational to me.

He isn't on a forum under an assumed name posting comments about which console is teh best. heretrix

Bingo.

Nailed in one sentence.

Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout 3 and saved Interplay from going bankrupt thus allowing them to create a Fallout MMO and a new Earth Worm Jim. Frankly, I wouldn't of wanted it any other way. It's a win-win situation for everyone besides the tiny margin of fans who wanted another isometric Fallout.

Plus, Fallout 3 looks amazing.

Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout 3 and saved Interplay from going bankrupt thus allowing them to create a Fallout MMO and a new Earth Worm Jim. Frankly, I wouldn't of wanted it any other way. It's a win-win situation for everyone besides the tiny margin of fans who wanted another isometric Fallout.

Plus, Fallout 3 looks amazing.

0bscurity

Does anyone care what Hermits have to say anyway? :|DisPimpin

lol! no, only hermits care about what hermits have to say.

[QUOTE="mo0ksi"]You calm now? Good.

They're not done properly by failing to make a transition of the great gameplay the original Fallout carries onto the current generation. They could add in and enhance more features if they wanted to and people on both fronts would've liked what they saw.

I honestly don't know where I'm being arrogant when all I said was that Bethesda could've made the game appealing on both fronts instead of mainly one.

Also I watched the video a while ago. I take Sessler's words with a mountain of salt and the Diablo 3 issues is nowhere near the magnitude of the Fallout 3 issue. Diablo fanboys were upset about color. FO fanboys were upset about butchered gameplay.

Which one hurts more I wonder?

RuprechtMonkey

Haha, "Calm now?" I was calm to begin with , just think this topic is funny. You're still not understanding what makes your entire argument so absurd. You have hobbled together a collections of restrictions on what Bethesda should do to make Fallout 3, their own property, acceptable IN YOUR EYES, they are not beholden to you or the tiny group of perpetually complaining fanboys of like mind. If they made the changes you're suggesting they would likely upset many more people than they would otherwise satisfy. What FO afanboys do not realize is the only people that seriously consider wht they say are other FO fanboys (which is why it can be discussed so often in a forum with a premise as insane as this one's,) everyone else sees it rationally, as the ridiculous opinion that it is.

If you don't like the idea of the game, do not buy or play the game.

How is it absurd when I said Beth could've made the game appealing to both sides so that no one really had a place to complain? They could've done it. But they didn't and ended up alienating the majority of the fanbase of the past FO games. I really wouldn't see what current gen gamers would complain about from Fallout's gameplay other than turn-based combat.

It's also pretty funny that you think I'm one of the FO fanboys when I've been turning a blind eye to this game for pretty much the entire time it's been talked about. I may have disagreed with what the game is like but that's as far as it went.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:

heretrix

What are your credentials?

Again, KevinV has a long resume as a video game reviewer or journalist as you may put it, but does that make his opinion better than mine? That's what I thought.. no it doesn't. I could love a game and he hate it but that doesn't make his opinion any better than mine.

[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

The entire premise of System Wars is irrational and absurd. I believe the average person who plays games, game reviewer or otherwise, is far more credible (when it comes to being rational about topics in the gaming world) because they don't see everything in the industry through absurdly strong fanboy goggles. Asking the average System Wars poster for information on a given gaming topic is like asking a McCain campaign spokesperson (or an Obama spokesperson) for an "honest" take on current political matters, they are so tethered to a specific platform that an absurdly biased, often irrational response is implied.

Anyone who believes the endlessly Fallout 3 bashing seen in this forum is somehow indicative of a rational response to the game is not that bright.

RuprechtMonkey

http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/679947/Sesslers_Soapbox_Dear_Halo_Haters.html

Now I don't disagree with you, but my first post was basically, saying adam sessler was a bad choice, and that link takes you to the reason why.

I watched that video, I don't understand why that video has anything to do with his credibility. I don't like Halo personally...So he likes Halo, and he thinks people who endlessly bash it are being silly. And? Seems rational to me.

He tell us to shove a yeah in our mouth if we find something wrong with the game and say about it.Clearly I'm going to take this man's opinion over others. =/

How is it absurd when I said Beth could've made the game appealing to both sides so that no one really had a place to complain? mo0ksi

You're still not getting it. Bethesda owns the IP, it is their property, not you, or anyone else, that aren't a part of Bethesda's team aren't in any postiton to suggest what Bethesda should put into their game. To think that somehow you have the miraculous answer as to the best ways for Bethesda to handle their own property is insanely arrogant. If you don't like Bethesda's products, do not buy Bethesda's products. They are not in any way beholden to the tiny slice of ranting and raving Fallout fanboys that carry on in forums like this.

There is NOTHING they could have done that would silence all the insane fanboy complaints. There will always be a small vocal group of fanboys making useless complaints regardless of what happens.

I consider myself a fallout fan, and I'm stoked about the game.

Only thing I see wrong here is people endlessly bashing the game before it even comes out. Play it, then judge it.

[QUOTE="0bscurity"]

Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout 3 and saved Interplay from going bankrupt thus allowing them to create a Fallout MMO and a new Earth Worm Jim. Frankly, I wouldn't of wanted it any other way. It's a win-win situation for everyone besides the tiny margin of fans who wanted another isometric Fallout.

Plus, Fallout 3 looks amazing.

foxhound_fox

What do you expect? Things change, you can't expect a whole new team to be able to perfectly emulate what another team has done especially when the games are completely different. As far as the role-playing goes, I see tons of it. You're playing the role of an assumed character, one you fit to your likings. You could argue it's a FPS, but I'd like to see some later areas attempted at low levels, you'd be decimated.

I mean take a look at the past two Fallouts, it's not exactly like Interplay hit the nail on the head with either of those. I think Fallout 3 looks very refreshing and will turn out to be the best in the series (and by best I mean most fun, which is why I play video games in the first place).

ruprecht. just give it up. it's the same group of fallout purists that have created dozens of threads on the subject. just let them be unhappy and miserable.

like i said in my previous post - these people seem to have an emotional investment in the franchise as many of their arguments don't stand up to logic. time and time again we countered their points by outlining the changes from fallout 1 to 2 to tactics. they don't care. they are set in their ways.

just memorize this mantra that they use at Bethesda ' you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time '. and given the tone of some of the purists out there, disrupting the official forums and sending death threats - WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLEASE THEM.

Does anyone care what Hermits have to say anyway? :|DisPimpin

You could say the same thing about consolites, no one cares about what they say either. *shrugs*

ruprecht. just give it up. it's the same group of fallout purists that have created dozens of threads on the subject. just let them be unhappy and miserable.

like i said in my previous post - these people seem to have an emotional investment in the franchise as many of their arguments don't stand up to logic. time and time again we countered their points by outlining the changes from fallout 1 to 2 to tactics. they don't care. they are set in their ways.

just memorize this mantra that they use at Bethesda ' you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time '. and given the tone of some of the purists out there, disrupting the official forums and sending death threats - WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLEASE THEM.

3picuri3

Don't worry I'm going to remember all these here telling the fallout fan not to complain. Oh bioware how much I hope KOTOR becomes a MMO. Everytime it's brought up alot of QQ happens even from those who bash fallout fans,I just want to see thier reaction and I'll bring up these threads everytime they complain about it.

I consider myself a fallout fan, and I'm stoked about the game.

Only thing I see wrong here is people endlessly bashing the game before it even comes out. Play it, then judge it.

Donkey_Puncher

same here - i think Fallout 1 was the first game i pre-ordered. i adore the series and have been waiting years for it to come out and am incredibly excited. i couldn't care less what the purists say about it - it could have been an isometric remake of 1+2 together with updated visuals and the same system and they would still complain. and the game would likely tank because nobody else would buy it because of it's archaic presentation.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

ruprecht. just give it up. it's the same group of fallout purists that have created dozens of threads on the subject. just let them be unhappy and miserable.

like i said in my previous post - these people seem to have an emotional investment in the franchise as many of their arguments don't stand up to logic. time and time again we countered their points by outlining the changes from fallout 1 to 2 to tactics. they don't care. they are set in their ways.

just memorize this mantra that they use at Bethesda ' you can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time '. and given the tone of some of the purists out there, disrupting the official forums and sending death threats - WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLEASE THEM.

Espada12

Don't worry I'm going to remember all these here telling the fallout fan not to complain. Oh bioware how much I hope KOTOR becomes a MMO. Everytime it's brought up alot of QQ happens even from those who bash fallout fans,I just want to see thier reaction and I'll bring up these threads everytime they complain about it.

why does it matter if you remember my name? here, write it down now. 3PICURI3.

the same lot of people did the same moan & dance over Oblivion. it scored well, the vast majorit of people loved it - the hardcore purists hated it.

even if i love this game and it get AAAE you'd still try to tell me i was wrong so it doesn't matter one little bit to me.

and i'm hyped as hell for KOTOR MMO too and I loved the first 2 :)

What do you expect? Things change, you can't expect a whole new team to be able to perfectly emulate what another team has done especially when the games are completely different. As far as the role-playing goes, I see tons of it. You're playing the role of an assumed character, one you fit to your likings. You could argue it's a FPS, but I'd like to see some later areas attempted at low levels, you'd be decimated.

I mean take a look at the past two Fallouts, it's not exactly like Interplay hit the nail on the head with either of those. I think Fallout 3 looks very refreshing and will turn out to be the best in the series (and by best I mean most fun, which is why I play video games in the first place).

0bscurity

[QUOTE="0bscurity"]

Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout 3 and saved Interplay from going bankrupt thus allowing them to create a Fallout MMO and a new Earth Worm Jim. Frankly, I wouldn't of wanted it any other way. It's a win-win situation for everyone besides the tiny margin of fans who wanted another isometric Fallout.

Plus, Fallout 3 looks amazing.

foxhound_fox

There is a significant amount of people out there who wanted a proper role-playing game with the humour and styIe of the originals left intact. I don't know of many people who want another isometric Fallout.

Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines is a superb first-person role-playing game... Bethesda should have took notes.

but you haven't played it? how do you know anything about the humor?

visually you can argue thats changed into a "generic all flash" landscape ( :roll: ). So there may not be anymore breaking the forth wall, was that the only element of humor in fallout...

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:

Espada12

What are your credentials?

Again, KevinV has a long resume as a video game reviewer or journalist as you may put it, but does that make his opinion better than mine? That's what I thought.. no it doesn't. I could love a game and he hate it but that doesn't make his opinion any better than mine.

Are you asking if Kevin Van Ord is more credible than a given, anonymous System Wars poster? Is that a serious question? Of course he is. Why is it, that you think, so many people put stock in the opinions of Gamespot reviewers but no one but yourself cares about how you (or any other knucklehead in this dumb forum, myself included) feel about a given game?

I love Mass Effect, he didn't think it was anywhere close to how good I thought it was. Fine, we disagreed about the value of a given game, we're two different people after all. Does that mean I'm likely to find some other handle in System Wars who liked Mass Effect as much as I did and start paying attention to his opinions to the same degree that I do to GameSpot's reviewers? No. Those that post in System Wars are by definition not credible because they're participating in a forum whose sole premise is being blindly loyal to a given platform. Do you honestly care what anyone, but yourself, cares about in this forum? Are you really taking anyone's opinion here seriously?

If you're asking me whether or not his opinion about the value of a given game is more important to you when it comes to how you enjoy a game, that's another dumb question. Of course your opinion is more valuable to your gameplay experience, Kevin Van Ord's purpose to to provide product purchase suggestions based on his own, valued gameplay experiences. That's why he gets paid to do what he does, people value his opinion. That's also the reason you're not getting paid to post on System Wars, nobody cares.

but you haven't played it? how do you know anything about the humor? visual **** you can argue thats changed into a "genric all flash" landscape (:roll:). So there may not be anymore breaking the forth wall, was that the only element of humor in fallout... hip-hop-cola2

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="0bscurity"]

Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout 3 and saved Interplay from going bankrupt thus allowing them to create a Fallout MMO and a new Earth Worm Jim. Frankly, I wouldn't of wanted it any other way. It's a win-win situation for everyone besides the tiny margin of fans who wanted another isometric Fallout.

Plus, Fallout 3 looks amazing.

hip-hop-cola2

There is a significant amount of people out there who wanted a proper role-playing game with the humour and styIe of the originals left intact. I don't know of many people who want another isometric Fallout.

Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines is a superb first-person role-playing game... Bethesda should have took notes.

but you haven't played it? how do you know anything about the humor?

visually you can argue thats changed into a "generic all flash" landscape ( :roll: ). So there may not be anymore breaking the forth wall, was that the only element of humor in fallout...

Several people who have played the game, says it's basically non existant. I think some of those did reviews but I will see for myself.

[QUOTE="mo0ksi"]

How is it absurd when I said Beth could've made the game appealing to both sides so that no one really had a place to complain? RuprechtMonkey

You're still not getting it. Bethesda owns the IP, it is their property, not you, or anyone else, that aren't a part of Bethesda's team aren't in any postiton to suggest what Bethesda should put into their game. To think that somehow you have the miraculous answer as to the best ways for Bethesda to handle their own property is insanely arrogant. If you don't like Bethesda's products, do not buy Bethesda's products. They are not in any way beholden to the tiny slice of ranting and raving Fallout fanboys that carry on in forums like this.

There is NOTHING they could have done that would silence all the insane fanboy complaints. There will always be a small vocal group of fanboys making useless complaints regardless of what happens.

As for your last part, you could be correct. But if saying that Beth did all that FO fans wished and there's still complaints from them, then it would just be sad.

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:

Espada12

What are your credentials?

Again, KevinV has a long resume as a video game reviewer or journalist as you may put it, but does that make his opinion better than mine? That's what I thought.. no it doesn't. I could love a game and he hate it but that doesn't make his opinion any better than mine.

lmao. wow.

so i guess i can take your own words and turn them around and say your opinion is no better than mine right? if you said no that would be awful hypocritical.

ok so here i go. my opinion is fallout 3 will be fantastic and the vast majority of fallout veterans will love every minute of it.

thanks.

[QUOTE="0bscurity"]What do you expect? Things change, you can't expect a whole new team to be able to perfectly emulate what another team has done especially when the games are completely different. As far as the role-playing goes, I see tons of it. You're playing the role of an assumed character, one you fit to your likings. You could argue it's a FPS, but I'd like to see some later areas attempted at low levels, you'd be decimated.

I mean take a look at the past two Fallouts, it's not exactly like Interplay hit the nail on the head with either of those. I think Fallout 3 looks very refreshing and will turn out to be the best in the series (and by best I mean most fun, which is why I play video games in the first place).

foxhound_fox

they removed the leveling system for fallout 3, so that arguments mute

I knew that Beth owns the IP and I agree with most of the things you say. But I'm not trying to find an idea on how to make Beth create their products. All I was saying was that there were some alternate methods worth trying to work on at the least. If you think that I was trying to be arrogant then whatever.

As for your last part, you could be correct. But if saying that Beth did all that FO fans wished and there's still complaints from them, then it would just be sad.

mo0ksi

no less sad than the stuff i see in most fallout 3 threads in SW. there are a lot of people that i would say are obsessed about this game. people that scream of retcons and yell at me that dogmeat has been dead for hundreds of years. these people have issues imo. they are so afraid of something they cherish and are emotionally attached to changing that they go to such great lengths to bring this iteration down.

it's shameful. flat out shameful.

if beth listened to 100% of the things these people want then the only people that would buy it would be those people - and even then they'd probably find something at the last minute that wasn't quite right so they'd avoid it.

this crap happened with morrowind. it happened with oblivion. it happened with KOTOR. it happens with nearly every sequel to every game made. change happens. retcons are a fact of fictional worlds. get over it. get over yourself (not you TC, just purists in general) and enjoy things for what they are - don't hate for what they aren't.

If you're asking me whether or not his opinion about the value of a given game is more important to you when it comes to how you enjoy a game, that's another dumb question. Of course your opinion is more valuable to your gameplay experience, Kevin Van Ord's purpose to to provide product purchase suggestions based on his gameplay experiences.

RuprechtMonkey

Which is my point exactly. At the end of the day his opinion holds the same weight as mine, I should have been more clear and stated in my eyes, the reasoning I said don't use adam sessler in the first place is because he is talking down the diable fanboys in your link yet is being a halo fanboy in mine, his opinion means squat honestly(to me) which i should have specified in the first place.