Fallout 3. Change is good, as long as it's done properly. (Sorta long read)

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"][QUOTE="mo0ksi"]

How is it absurd when I said Beth could've made the game appealing to both sides so that no one really had a place to complain? mo0ksi

You're still not getting it. Bethesda owns the IP, it is their property, not you, or anyone else, that aren't a part of Bethesda's team aren't in any postiton to suggest what Bethesda should put into their game. To think that somehow you have the miraculous answer as to the best ways for Bethesda to handle their own property is insanely arrogant. If you don't like Bethesda's products, do not buy Bethesda's products. They are not in any way beholden to the tiny slice of ranting and raving Fallout fanboys that carry on in forums like this.

There is NOTHING they could have done that would silence all the insane fanboy complaints. There will always be a small vocal group of fanboys making useless complaints regardless of what happens.

As for your last part, you could be correct. But if saying that Beth did all that FO fans wished and there's still complaints from them, then it would just be sad.

Again, "worth trying" according to you, they obviously did not deem such things worth trying because they did not do what you're suggesting. If they thought that was the "Proper" thing to do with their own property they would've done it.

If Bethesda did everything every fanboy group thought was "worth trying" they'd be making 5,000,000 different versions of Fallout 3.

[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:

3picuri3

What are your credentials?

Again, KevinV has a long resume as a video game reviewer or journalist as you may put it, but does that make his opinion better than mine? That's what I thought.. no it doesn't. I could love a game and he hate it but that doesn't make his opinion any better than mine.

lmao. wow.

so i guess i can take your own words and turn them around and say your opinion is no better than mine right? if you said no that would be awful hypocritical.

ok so here i go. my opinion is fallout 3 will be fantastic and the vast majority of fallout veterans will love every minute of it.

thanks.

Ok???? What does this have to do with anything, if you think it's great good for you but you last bolded part isn't an opinion, it's a statement which needs facts.

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Yes because Adam Sessler's opinion is more credible than mine :roll:

Espada12

What are your credentials?

Again, KevinV has a long resume as a video game reviewer or journalist as you may put it, but does that make his opinion better than mine? That's what I thought.. no it doesn't. I could love a game and he hate it but that doesn't make his opinion any better than mine.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

If you're asking me whether or not his opinion about the value of a given game is more important to you when it comes to how you enjoy a game, that's another dumb question. Of course your opinion is more valuable to your gameplay experience, Kevin Van Ord's purpose to to provide product purchase suggestions based on his gameplay experiences.

Espada12

Which is my point exactly. At the end of the day his opinion holds the same weight as mine,

No.

To you, your opinion holds far more weight than Kevin Van Ord's opinion. I like chocolate ice cream, I'm not going to stop liking it because some well-respected food critic thinks it's not all it's cracked up to be.

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

My opinion is the most valuable opinion in the world as far as I'm concerned. To you, your's is to you. Nobody but myself holds my opinion to such a high regard, the same goes with your opinion and yourself.

Kevin Van Ord's opinion is referenced by many, many more people than just Kevin Van Ord. His opinion carries far more weight in general to the gaming world as a whole. Much more than your's, much more than mine.

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

RuprechtMonkey

[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

If you're asking me whether or not his opinion about the value of a given game is more important to you when it comes to how you enjoy a game, that's another dumb question. Of course your opinion is more valuable to your gameplay experience, Kevin Van Ord's purpose to to provide product purchase suggestions based on his gameplay experiences.

RuprechtMonkey

Which is my point exactly. At the end of the day his opinion holds the same weight as mine,

No.

To you, your opinion holds far more weight than Kevin Van Ord's opinion. I like chocolate ice cream, I'm not going to stop liking it because some well-respected food critic thinks it's not all it's cracked up to be.

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

My opinion is the most valuable opinion in the world as far as I'm concerned. To you, your's is to you. Nobody but myself holds my opinion to such a high regard, the same goes with your opinion and yourself.

Kevin Van Ord's opinion is referenced by many, many more people than just Kevin Van Ord. His opinion carries far more weight in general to the gaming world as a whole. Much more than your's, much more than mine.

Don't 1/2 read my quote and post on something I already explained. Read the rest of it.

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

RuprechtMonkey

Yea because it's on the front page and says *GAMESPOT REVIEW*. If I wrote it and said the samething would it be any different?

[QUOTE="0bscurity"]

Bethesda bought the rights to Fallout 3 and saved Interplay from going bankrupt thus allowing them to create a Fallout MMO and a new Earth Worm Jim. Frankly, I wouldn't of wanted it any other way. It's a win-win situation for everyone besides the tiny margin of fans who wanted another isometric Fallout.

Plus, Fallout 3 looks amazing.

foxhound_fox

I liked both Vampire games. It's a shame the series didn't go anywhere. The only problem I have with it is that second game is so damn buggy I refuse to even waste the time to reinstall it any more..There are a few game ending bugs that have prevented me from finishing the game.

I can appreciate long time fans of the Fallout series being a bit :? after seeing how Fallout 3 has changed some fundamental things. That having been said, I also think it's fine & fun to enjoy this game if it really is a winner as far as gaming is concerned and I have it on my list as a must buy at the moment.

If it's any consolation, ( :lol: no pun intended, no really ) maybe it can be thought of as a Halo Wars changing Halo but you just know a traditional Halo is not gone forever. Fallout 4 could go back to Fallout roots some years from now.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

foxhound_fox

His opinion carries more weight.

Read my post and his post again, you're not getting it.

"Validity" of a given thing centers around how justifiable that thing is, how logically sound and meaningful that thing is. The premise of System Wars is absurd, it is not logical. The opinions put forth in this forum are not as credible or valid as someone who gets paid to offer a sound, logical view of the gaming world that isn't tethered to the absurd notions that fuel this forum. That is the precise reason why so many people care about Professional Game reviewers' opinions, and the only people that care about the opinions in System Wars are the people spouting them off. To you, your opinion is the most important, to me, mine is. Nobody but ourselves care about our own opinion, they carry very little weight in the industry.

To YOU, your opinion is far more valid and meaningful than Kevin V's opinion, it carries more weight to you and only yourself. To everyone else, your opinion is far less valid and carries far less weight.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

Espada12

Yea because it's on the front page and says *GAMESPOT REVIEW*. If I wrote it and said the samething would it be any different?

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

Espada12

Yea because it's on the front page and says *GAMESPOT REVIEW*. If I wrote it and said the samething would it be any different?

There is a reason you're not being paid to give your opinions of the gaming world.

There is a reason people are not actively seeking out your opinions of the gaming world.

People don't care about your opinion. It does not carry enough weight.

[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

heretrix

Yea because it's on the front page and says *GAMESPOT REVIEW*. If I wrote it and said the samething would it be any different?

All I am saying is If GS paid me for my opinion and plastered it on the front of the site obviously people who come to the site would read it. If me and KevinV suddenly swapped roles right now our opinions are not better than each other's.

[QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

RuprechtMonkey

Yea because it's on the front page and says *GAMESPOT REVIEW*. If I wrote it and said the samething would it be any different?

There is a reason you're not being paid to give your opinions of the gaming world.

There is a reason people are not actively seeking out your opinions of the gaming world.

People don't care about your opinion. It does not carry enough weight.

Or because I didn't sign up for the job ? Really can you tell me what weight KevinV's opinion carried when he first started reviewing, I'd like to know.

Ok???? What does this have to do with anything, if you think it's great good for you but you last bolded part isn't an opinion, it's a statement which needs facts.

Espada12

i'd say the burden of proof is on you my friend. i've seen maybe 10 people here in SW that are vehemently against fallout 3 - given the hype the game has recieved and the number of people posting positive things and arguing with the likes of you i'd say it's no question who the minority is.

bu

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

Ok???? What does this have to do with anything, if you think it's great good for you but you last bolded part isn't an opinion, it's a statement which needs facts.

3picuri3

i'd say the burden of proof is on you my friend. i've seen maybe 10 people here in SW that are vehemently against fallout 3 - given the hype the game has recieved and the number of people posting positive things and arguing with the likes of you i'd say it's no question who the minority is.

bu

SW is not really an accurate grounds to judge such a thing.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"][QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

Espada12

Yea because it's on the front page and says *GAMESPOT REVIEW*. If I wrote it and said the samething would it be any different?

There is a reason you're not being paid to give your opinions of the gaming world.

There is a reason people are not actively seeking out your opinions of the gaming world.

People don't care about your opinion. It does not carry enough weight.

Or because I didn't sign up for the job ? Really can you tell me what weight KevinV's opinion carried when he first started reviewing, I'd like to know.

Sorry, no offense, and I don't really care about Kevin V's opinion (I rarely read this site for game reviews anymore,) but I've read some Kevin V reviews and I've read your posts and you're not nearly as well-written or as well thought out as Kevin Van Ord. Just because I didn't apply to the postion as chef doesn't mean I'm likely to be as good at the job as any given chef is were I in their postion.

Believe it or not GameSpot doesn't hire every average person that applies for the job.

His opinion carries more weight.

Read my post and his post again, you're not getting it.

"Validity" of a given thing centers around how justifiable that thing is, how logically sound and meaningful that thing is. The premise of System Wars is absurd, it is not logical. The opinions put forth in this forum are not as credible or valid as someone who gets paid to offer a sound, logical view of the gaming world that isn't tethered to the absurd notions that fuel this forum. That is the precise reason why so many people care about Professional Game reviewers' opinions, and the only people that care about the opinions in System Wars are the people spouting them off. To you, your opinion is the most important, to me, mine is. Nobody but ourselves care about our own opinion, they carry very little weight in the industry.

To YOU, your opinion is far more valid and meaningful than Kevin V's opinion, it carries more weight to you and only yourself. To everyone else, your opinion is far less valid and carries far less weight.

RuprechtMonkey

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

Ok???? What does this have to do with anything, if you think it's great good for you but you last bolded part isn't an opinion, it's a statement which needs facts.

Espada12

i'd say the burden of proof is on you my friend. i've seen maybe 10 people here in SW that are vehemently against fallout 3 - given the hype the game has recieved and the number of people posting positive things and arguing with the likes of you i'd say it's no question who the minority is.

bu

SW is not really an accurate grounds to judge such a thing.

and trying to claim the majority side with you is just a bit off imo.

you are nowhere close the majority with this one. read up on fallout 3 preorders.... sorry, but the angry and vocal in this instance are the minority. there's no way around it. you can claim it isn't true in absense of real data but i'll only believe it if Fallout 3 flops in sales and i start seeing more naysayers. a dozen out of thousands in SW won't change a thing.

i'm truly sorry you won't be able to enjoy the game because of your stance on things, but i don't agree with a single thing the fallout purists have to say.. this coming from a guy with unboxed versions of the first 2 that has played them about a dozen times each at least.

no less sad than the stuff i see in most fallout 3 threads in SW. there are a lot of people that i would say are obsessed about this game. people that scream of retcons and yell at me that dogmeat has been dead for hundreds of years. these people have issues imo. they are so afraid of something they cherish and are emotionally attached to changing that they go to such great lengths to bring this iteration down. 3picuri3

Oh btw sorry TC I've derailed the topic, sigh I'll stop now. Espada12

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Espada12"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

In the eyes 99.999% of people who read Gamespot Kevin Van Ord's opinion IS far, far more valuable than yours. There's a reason they're reading his thoughts and not yours, or any other person on this forum. Kevin Van Ord is paid to review games, many people read his reviews.

Espada12

Yea because it's on the front page and says *GAMESPOT REVIEW*. If I wrote it and said the samething would it be any different?

All I am saying is If GS paid me for my opinion and plastered it on the front of the site obviously people who come to the site would read it. If me and KevinV suddenly swapped roles right now our opinions are not better than each other's.

Both you and Kevin V. could have exactly the same opinion on something but his opinion carries more weight because as a reviewer he was chosen among many people for the job. He has proven himself to the people that run this website that he is qualified to write for them. You have not. You only post here voluntarily, with no qualifications other than you like videogames and you can type a coherent sentence.

Certain issues aside, a lot of people trust Gamespot reviews. they are one of the largest websites that deal with videogames. For them to hire Kevin V and pay him to write articles and reviews says a lot more to people than someone who basically does the equivalent of writing a letter to the editor. He went through the interview process and got hired, you pressed the "new message" button and typed a post with no oversight other than a mod. There's a huge difference between the two.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]His opinion carries more weight.

Read my post and his post again, you're not getting it.

"Validity" of a given thing centers around how justifiable that thing is, how logically sound and meaningful that thing is. The premise of System Wars is absurd, it is not logical. The opinions put forth in this forum are not as credible or valid as someone who gets paid to offer a sound, logical view of the gaming world that isn't tethered to the absurd notions that fuel this forum. That is the precise reason why so many people care about Professional Game reviewers' opinions, and the only people that care about the opinions in System Wars are the people spouting them off. To you, your opinion is the most important, to me, mine is. Nobody but ourselves care about our own opinion, they carry very little weight in the industry.

To YOU, your opinion is far more valid and meaningful than Kevin V's opinion, it carries more weight to you and only yourself. To everyone else, your opinion is far less valid and carries far less weight.

foxhound_fox

It carries more weight, it is regarded by far, far more people. I suppose you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "Carries more weight."

It is considered more valid by the masses, otherwise they wouldn't be regarding it, they'd be paying attention to yours instead.

It carries more weight, it is regarded by far, far more people. I suppose you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "Carries more weight."It is considered more valid by the masses, otherwise they wouldn't be regarding it, they'd be paying attention to yours instead.RuprechtMonkey

None of that matters. It seems like you don't understand the very simple concept of credibility.

Both you and Kevin V. could have exactly the same opinion on something but his opinion carries more weight because as a reviewer he was chosen among many people for the job. He has proven himself to the people that run this website that he is qualified to write for them. You have not. You only post here voluntarily, with no qualifications other than you like videogames and you can type a coherent sentence.

Certain issues aside, a lot of people trust Gamespot reviews. they are one of the largest websites that deal with videogames. For them to hire Kevin V and pay him to write articles and reviews says a lot more to people than someone who basically does the equivalent of writing a letter to the editor. He went through the interview process and got hired, you pressed the "new post" button and typed a post. there's a huge difference between the two.

heretrix

Actually it does matter, as I said if I got hired TODAY by GS my opinions will not be more better or any more credible than when I wasn't hired by GS. They would be the same.. , the fact they my opinions are being taken seriously because it's plastered on the front page of a website makes no difference. Before being an editor given Kevin's opinions were just the same as mine, somehow being hired to express your opinion shot his credibility up? Crazy huh?

KevinV pre GS = Espada12

KevinV(after being hired) > Espada 12

In opinions I mean.. funny how that works out eh?

If you take on the responsbilities of the predecessors, you have to do them justice.Vandalvideo

No, you don't, and whether or not it does it "justice" varies from person to person, looks like you don't understand this. According to Bethesda, they are doing them jusitce, according to you, they're not. The difference is they own it and can do with it what they please. They have no responsibility whatsoever to make the game in the image you deem "worthy." They are not beholden, nor should they be, to the whims of a tiny group of nutty fanboys who believe their opinions to be far, far more important than they actually are.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]no less sad than the stuff i see in most fallout 3 threads in SW. there are a lot of people that i would say are obsessed about this game. people that scream of retcons and yell at me that dogmeat has been dead for hundreds of years. these people have issues imo. they are so afraid of something they cherish and are emotionally attached to changing that they go to such great lengths to bring this iteration down. Vandalvideo

every purist thinks their actions are just in their eyes. no shock there.

no disservice here at all, just a difference of opinion. if anything the purists do more disservice as many posters have pointed out - with all their negative talk and refusal to be logical about things. and it's not surprise the same group of people attacked beths forums several times throwing E-tantrums because their beloved was changing. i don't fear change, I'm rational and know all things change in fictional worlds. i can't think of a popular series without what you folks call RETCONS... it's just silly to think anything will remain the same when star wars, star trek, etc are just jam packed with similar things.

again, i'm sorry you won't be able to enjoy it because of your 'principles' but nothing you could say would sway my opinions and i consider myself as adamant a fallout fan as you do - i just don't have some insane emotional attachment to it that brings me to yell and argue with others about petty things like retcons and a change of tone / humour.

none of you listened to reason when several fallout veterans hit you with the fact that fallout 2 was vastly more comedic and toilet humor filled than the first, but that doesn't make the first any less great... you all just change topics and deflect.

i'm happy letting you all just be - have your own opinions and fight what you think is the good fight and avoid playing the game. i'll be waiting for my CE to come in so i can crack open that lunchbox and get started.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

None of that matters. It seems like you don't understand the very simple concept of credibility.

Both you and Kevin V. could have exactly the same opinion on something but his opinion carries more weight because as a reviewer he was chosen among many people for the job. He has proven himself to the people that run this website that he is qualified to write for them. You have not. You only post here voluntarily, with no qualifications other than you like videogames and you can type a coherent sentence.

Certain issues aside, a lot of people trust Gamespot reviews. they are one of the largest websites that deal with videogames. For them to hire Kevin V and pay him to write articles and reviews says a lot more to people than someone who basically does the equivalent of writing a letter to the editor. He went through the interview process and got hired, you pressed the "new post" button and typed a post. there's a huge difference between the two.

Espada12

Actually it does matter, as I said if I got hired TODAY by GS my opinions will not be more better or any more credible than when I wasn't hired by GS. They would be the same.. , the fact they my opinions are being taken seriously because it's plastered on the front page of a website makes no difference. Before being an editor given Kevin's opinions were just the same as mine, somehow being hired to express your opinion shot his credibility up? Crazy huh?

KevinV pre GS = Espada12

KevinV(after being hired) > Espada 12

In opinions I mean.. funny how that works out eh?

Do you not understand the phrase you originally posted, "Carries more weight?" His opinion carries more weight than your opinion, it carries more weight than my opinion, it carries more weight than any anonymous System Wars poster's opinion.

Many, many more people consider his opinion to be more valuable than yours. They consider it more valuable, more valid, more important.

I'm not going to debate the obvious here.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]If you take on the responsbilities of the predecessors, you have to do them justice.RuprechtMonkey

No, you don't, and whether or not it does it "justice" varies from person to person, looks like you don't understand this. According to Bethesda, they are doing them jusitce, according to you, they're not. The difference is they own it and can do with it what they please. They have no responsibility whatsoever to make the game in the image you deem "worthy." They are not beholden, nor should they be, to the whims of a tiny group of nutty fanboys who believe their opinions to be far, far more important than they actually are.

Do you not understand the phrase you originally posted, "Carries more weight." His opinion carries more weight than your opinion.

Many, many more people consider his opinion to be more valuable than yours. They consider it more valuable, more valid, more important.

I'm not going to debate the obvious here.

RuprechtMonkey

Wait how would my opinion suddenly carry weight if I was hired? I mean... I've just being saying the same things i've been saying all the time :)

EDIT: I'm really done this time.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

Do you not understand the phrase you originally posted, "Carries more weight." His opinion carries more weight than your opinion.

Many, many more people consider his opinion to be more valuable than yours. They consider it more valuable, more valid, more important.

I'm not going to debate the obvious here.

Espada12

Wait how would my opinion suddenly carry weight if I was hired? I mean... I've just being saying the same things i've been saying all the time :)

EDIT: I'm really done this time.

it's the difference between a professional and a layman.

a professional is paid for his opinion because his employers think it's worth the paper it's printed on. a layman gives his personal opinion up for individual consideration.

professionals are more respected than layman when it comes to value assessments.

no disservice here at all, just a difference of opinion. if anything the purists do more disservice as many posters have pointed out - with all their negative talk and refusal to be logical about things. and it's not surprise the same group of people attacked beths forums several times throwing E-tantrums because their beloved was changing. i don't fear change, I'm rational and know all things change in fictional worlds. i can't think of a popular series without what you folks call RETCONS... it's just silly to think anything will remain the same when star wars, star trek, etc are just jam packed with similar things.3picuri3

again, i'm sorry you won't be able to enjoy it because of your 'principles' but nothing you could say would sway my opinions and i consider myself as adamant a fallout fan as you do - i just don't have some insane emotional attachment to it that brings me to yell and argue with others about petty things like retcons and a change of tone / humour.

none of you listened to reason when several fallout veterans hit you with the fact that fallout 2 was vastly more comedic and toilet humor filled than the first, but that doesn't make the first any less great... you all just change topics and deflect.

i'm happy letting you all just be - have your own opinions and fight what you think is the good fight and avoid playing the game. i'll be waiting for my CE to come in so i can crack open that lunchbox and get started.

Does anyone care what Hermits have to say anyway? :|DisPimpin

The game will deliver. and when Hermits can accept that, they can enjoy the game too.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]If you take on the responsbilities of the predecessors, you have to do them justice.Vandalvideo

No, you don't, and whether or not it does it "justice" varies from person to person, looks like you don't understand this. According to Bethesda, they are doing them jusitce, according to you, they're not. The difference is they own it and can do with it what they please. They have no responsibility whatsoever to make the game in the image you deem "worthy." They are not beholden, nor should they be, to the whims of a tiny group of nutty fanboys who believe their opinions to be far, far more important than they actually are.

No, you don't. Take them to court, let's see how far you get. Every single thing you said they "Have" to do they in fact do not have to do.

They can call it whatever they want, they own it.

Do you not understand that what YOU feel they should do is vastly different than what I feel they should do? A small, incredibly vocal group of crazies should in no way determine what a given group has to, or should do, with their property. On what planet do you think you're on that you think YOU have the right to tell Bethesda what they "Have" to do? How arrogant do you have to be to believe your opinion is so immensely important that it should determine what Bethesda has to, or should, do with their own property?

And LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL @ "ICONOCLASM."

ICONOCLASM!!!!!!!!!!! BURN THEM!!!

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

None of that matters. It seems like you don't understand the very simple concept of credibility.

Both you and Kevin V. could have exactly the same opinion on something but his opinion carries more weight because as a reviewer he was chosen among many people for the job. He has proven himself to the people that run this website that he is qualified to write for them. You have not. You only post here voluntarily, with no qualifications other than you like videogames and you can type a coherent sentence.

Certain issues aside, a lot of people trust Gamespot reviews. they are one of the largest websites that deal with videogames. For them to hire Kevin V and pay him to write articles and reviews says a lot more to people than someone who basically does the equivalent of writing a letter to the editor. He went through the interview process and got hired, you pressed the "new post" button and typed a post. there's a huge difference between the two.

Espada12

Actually it does matter, as I said if I got hired TODAY by GS my opinions will not be more better or any more credible than when I wasn't hired by GS. They would be the same.. , the fact they my opinions are being taken seriously because it's plastered on the front page of a website makes no difference. Before being an editor given Kevin's opinions were just the same as mine, somehow being hired to express your opinion shot his credibility up? Crazy huh?

KevinV pre GS = Espada12

KevinV(after being hired) > Espada 12

In opinions I mean.. funny how that works out eh?

Kevin V. says "Fallout SUCKS. I'm giving it a 5.0"

Espada12 say "Fallout SUCKS. I'm giving it a 5.0"

Who's comment is going to carry more weight to the people that read this site and beyond?

[spoiler] It isn't you. [/spoiler]

No, you don't. Take them to court, let's see how far you get. Every dingle thing you said they "Have" to do they in fact do not have to do.RuprechtMonkey

They can call it whatever they want, they own it.

Do you not understand than what YOU feel they should do is vastly different than what I feel they should do? A small, incredibly vocal group of crazies should in no way determine what a given group has to, or should do, with their property. On what planet do you think you're on that you think YOU have the right to tell Bethesda what they "Have" to do? How arrogant do you have to be to believe your opinion is so immensely important that it should determine what Bethesda has to, or should, do with their own property?

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]No, you don't. Take them to court, let's see how far you get. Every dingle thing you said they "Have" to do they in fact do not have to do.Vandalvideo

They can call it whatever they want, they own it.

Do you not understand than what YOU feel they should do is vastly different than what I feel they should do? A small, incredibly vocal group of crazies should in no way determine what a given group has to, or should do, with their property. On what planet do you think you're on that you think YOU have the right to tell Bethesda what they "Have" to do? How arrogant do you have to be to believe your opinion is so immensely important that it should determine what Bethesda has to, or should, do with their own property?

How can you be so oblivious to something so obvious?

What they "Should" do and how "Faithful" they are being VARIES FROM PERSON TO PERSON.

Person A might not feel they're being faithful unless they make it a turn based, isometric 2D RPG. Person A might feel that's how they should make the game.

Person B might feel they're being faithful so long as they call the game "Fallout" and recreate the certain characters and environments loosely in 3 dimensions. They might feel they shouldn't be making a Fallout game in the mold it was originally cast in.

The problem here is you're putting far too much weight in your own opinion. Bethesda OWNS the franchise, they can do as they please.

Bethesda does not have to, nor should they, make the game in a way that you feel is being "Faithful." Bethesda does not have to, nor should they, make the game in a way you deem to be proper, appropriate, or worthy. You do not own the Fallout franchise. You have no right whatsoever to determine how Bethesda makes Fallout 3. Bethesda is not in anyway beholden to you or the tiny group of people who share your notion of how the world should work. You are not the lord of the universe.

What they "Should" do and how "Faithful" they are being VARIES FROM PERSON TO PERSON. RuprechtMonkey

Person A might not feel they're being faithful unless they make it a turn based, isometric 2D RPG. Person A might feel that's how they should make the game. Person B might feel they're being faithful so long as they call the game "Fallout" and recreate the certain characters and environments loosely in 3 dimensions. They might feel they shouldn't be making a Fallout game in the mold it was originall cast in.

The problem here is you're putting far too much wight in your own opinion.

Bethesda does not have to, nor should they, make the game in a way that you feel is being "Faithful." Bethesda does not have to, nor should they, make the game in a way you deem to be proper, apporpriate, or worthy. You do not own the Fallout franchise. You have no right whatsoever to determine how Bethesda makes Fallout 3. Bethesda is not in anyway beholden to your or the tiny group of people who share your notion of how the world shouldwork.

I have to leave this thread now.

I'm starting a mass protest of like minded idiots that aims to rail against the ICONOCLASM that Microsoft have committed against Halo by making Halo Wars, then we'll move onto Diablo 3, then the new Banjo! So much iconoclasm, so little time.

Does anyone hear me? ICONOCLASM!!!!!!!!!

DON'T YOU PEONS UNDERSTAND?!?!?! ICONOCLASM!!!!!!

System Wars, here we come!!!

"I will enjoy Fallout 3. I will buy Fallout 3. But this simply isn't Fallout".Vandalvideo

i read everything you write. and i absolutely disagree. you may call them facts, but do they hold as much weight for you as they do for others? are you thinkink about this relative to other fictional game worlds that change so much over time but never change their names (nor should they).

i think you're being 100% unrealistic here and unreasonable. that's my opinion. i wholeheartedly disagree. sorry.

I have to leave this thread now.

I'm starting a mass protest of like minded idiots that aims to rail against the ICONOCLASM that Microsoft have committed against Halo by making Halo Wars, then we'll move onto Diablo 3, then the new Banjo! So much iconoclasm, so little time.

Does anyone hear me? ICONOCLASM!!!!!!!!!

DON'T YOU PEONS UNDERSTAND?!?!?! ICONOCLASM!!!!!!

System Wars, here we come!!!

RuprechtMonkey

this is 100% proof that gaming purists take things way way way too far. the mere fact you use the term iconoclasm proves you have a deep emotional (and likely unhealthy) attachment to this series. iconoclasm was used to describe the intentional destruction of religious imagery.

and you people wonder why you're not taken seriously by the devs? really?

gaming isn't religion. gaming isn't sacred. gaming is meant as a release / a form of entertainment. all around you EVERY SINGLE fictional world goes through changes that run contrary to canon. EVERYWHERE. you likely play games that have 'suffered' these changes, you likely love series on TV or films that are RIPE with these changes.

i get that you love fallout man, but seriously. there are lines, and using iconoclasm as war-banner against MS and Beth is clearly one of them methinks.

Will Fallout 3 be more complex than Fallout 2? No? then I won't be buying it, sorry, I like complex games. But I hope you people like it. organic_machine

well that wasn't patranising at all...

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]"I will enjoy Fallout 3. I will buy Fallout 3. But this simply isn't Fallout".3picuri3

i read everything you write. and i absolutely disagree. you may call them facts, but do they hold as much weight for you as they do for others? are you thinkink about this relative to other fictional game worlds that change so much over time but never change their names (nor should they).

i think you're being 100% unrealistic here and unreasonable. that's my opinion. i wholeheartedly disagree. sorry.

Well, it's not that simple. there are degrees of BOTH opinion and fact. The facts are simple: is the game more complex, does the game recognize the gameplay style of the originals, does the game expand on the mood or style of the previous games, etc. The opinion on this matter are based on how important those facts are.

For example, I can live with all changes as long as the game is more complex. Complexity is the important thing for me. VV, on the other hands values the specific dark humor in the writing, which is something I believe is factually not present.

I think it is easier to discuss this issue if we define these things, no matter how obvious they may seem.

[QUOTE="organic_machine"]Will Fallout 3 be more complex than Fallout 2? No? then I won't be buying it, sorry, I like complex games. But I hope you people like it. hip-hop-cola2

well that wasn't patranising at all...

What do you mean? I was trying to speak my opinion without being a fanboy about the issue .:?

this is 100% proof that gaming purists take things way way way too far. the mere fact you use the term iconoclasm proves you have a deep emotional (and likely unhealthy) attachment to this series. iconoclasm was used to describe the intentional destruction of religious imagery. 3picuri3

gaming isn't religion. gaming isn't sacred. gamingis meant as a release / a form of entertainment. all around you EVERY SINGLE fictional world goes through changes that run contrary to canon. EVERYWHERE. you likely play games that have 'suffered' these changes, you likely love series on TV or films that are RIPE with these changes.

i get that you love fallout man, but seriously. there are lines, and using iconoclasm as war-banner against MS and Beth is clearly one of them methinks.

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"]"I will enjoy Fallout 3. I will buy Fallout 3. But this simply isn't Fallout".organic_machine

i read everything you write. and i absolutely disagree. you may call them facts, but do they hold as much weight for you as they do for others? are you thinkink about this relative to other fictional game worlds that change so much over time but never change their names (nor should they).

i think you're being 100% unrealistic here and unreasonable. that's my opinion. i wholeheartedly disagree. sorry.

Well, it's not that simple. there are degrees of BOTH opinion and fact. The facts are simple: is the game more complex, does the game recognize the gameplay style of the originals, does the game expand on the mood or style of the previous games, etc. The opinion on this matter are based on how important those facts are.

For example, I can live with all changes as long as the game is more complex. Complexity is the important thing for me. VV, on the other hands values the specific dark humor in the writing, which is something I believe is factually not present.

it absolutely isn't if you examine 1 or take tactics in to consideration. he's one of the group that love fallout 2 and wanted a remake - because 1 certainly is no dark humour collection.

i meant it's fact these have changed, but whether you care is another thing. i am so used to change in every bit of my life and the fictional works i enjoy that i couldn't care less unless they did something akin to what happened with Shadowrun.

to scream bloody murder about retcons when you have Kirby in your sig, or enjoy mario or final fantasy, or star wars, or star trek, or any number of fictional words is absolutely hypocritical and backwards.

this is why i've come to the conclusion this is an emotional thing for some people, as emotion often ignore logic. you can't argue with these people, you let them vent and try to point out where they're wrong.. but it doesn't do a thing. the next thread you see them in it's the same argument all over again and you have to say the same things.

i say let em be. everyone is entitled to opinion, but i have no reason to agree.