Far Cry 2: Leaked Across The Net; 360 Piracy Is On The Rise

first fallout 3 and now farcr2? i swear it only went gold just a few days ago :roll:

its obvioulsy internal leaks

This is great news. Not that I think piracy is ok, but maybe it will send a message to the devs who whine about PC piracy.HenriH-42

my thoughts exactly.

On the subject of uncrackable games, well i remember there was no crack for toca race driver 2, ever.Also black shark is going to use starforce. Apparently Flaming cliffs expansion for lock on uses starforce and still hasn't have a proper crack.

Well thats GTA IV, Fallout 3 and now FC2 that have been leaked early on the 360 - im pretty sure ive missed quite a few more.

[QUOTE="HenriH-42"]This is great news. Not that I think piracy is ok, but maybe it will send a message to the devs who whine about PC piracy.crozon

my thoughts exactly.

On the subject of uncrackable games, well i remember there was no crack for toca race driver 2, ever.Also black shark is going to use starforce. Apparently Flaming cliffs expansion for lock on uses starforce and still hasn't have a proper crack.

There will be few games that cant be cracked, but even protection like starforce can be cracked, or people can find workarounds (which can be of the hardware variety).

And I totally agree on this as a message to developers out there.

Piracy is bad, but piracy scapegoats is simply pathetic.

However piracy is still hard on a console. Its not that straight forward.

PC piracy is easy download a crack and off you go. Back in the day to get some pirated games to work you had to disable the cd/dvd drive.

They need measures that make it hard for pirates. Its got to be a bugger to circumvent.

BUT will killing piracy help game sales. Crysis did well sales wise (1.5 million i heard) and got pirated to hell and back. but it means a lot more people enjoyed the game and are potential buyers for their next game.

And all pirates i have met have bought games as well.

Its got to be a bugger to circumvent.

BUT will killing piracy help game sales. Crysis did well sales wise (1.5 million i heard) and got pirated to hell and back. but it means a lot more people enjoyed the game and are potential buyers for their next game.

And all pirates i have met have bought games as well.

crozon

In contrast games like STALKER have sold over 2 million copies, even though its a new IP from a ukranian developer, and was increadably buggy on release.

[QUOTE="crozon"]

Its got to be a bugger to circumvent.

BUT will killing piracy help game sales. Crysis did well sales wise (1.5 million i heard) and got pirated to hell and back. but it means a lot more people enjoyed the game and are potential buyers for their next game.

And all pirates i have met have bought games as well.

skrat_01

In contrast games like STALKER have sold over 2 million copies, even though its a new IP from a ukranian developer, and was increadably buggy on release.

With an extremely small developement team.

I bet there are less then 250k modded 360s in North America and Europe.

PS3_3DO

No offense but that is pure ignorance. GTA4 was downloaded over 2 million times on a specific private tracker that only caters to a North American audience.

Pirates aren't even gamers. They are generally people with low self esteem who think that by stealing, they are somehow special. What they don't realize is that they ARE special, only their flavor of special is spelled speshul.WillieBeamish

where did this come from? pirating these days is as normal as breathing air...

I don't understand, just because theirs a torrent of a 360 game that means their are alot of modded 360s?

the amount of torrents do not have any relation of how much piracy is on console

I don't understand, just because theirs a torrent of a 360 game that means their are alot of modded 360s?

the amount of torrents do not have any relation of how much piracy is on console

-Mad_Rhetoric-

its half half. you cant say that the ppl who download the game dont own modded xbox360's cos why would they even bother download it in the first place?

obviously they have downloaded it for a reason.

but then again they could be doing it for other purposes like selling them on. so ye its half half

publishers should take care of their stuff oh and TC 360's piracy aint even close to what piracy on pc games ;)mingo123

publishers should take care of their stuff oh and TC 360's piracy aint even close to what piracy on pc games ;)mingo123

Lems tells cows not to hide behind the PC.. how about taking your own advice for once?It's bad one both systems, just because one is worse don't use that to downplay how bad yours is.

[QUOTE="mingo123"]publishers should take care of their stuff oh and TC 360's piracy aint even close to what piracy on pc games ;)Espada12

Lems tells cows not to hide behind the PC.. how about taking your own advice for once?It's bad one both systems, just because one is worse don't use that to downplay how bad yours is.

TC is a hardcore hermit lol, piracy on pc is way worse then on 360

I thought us consolites were far too lazy to do stuff like this.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="mingo123"]publishers should take care of their stuff oh and TC 360's piracy aint even close to what piracy on pc games ;)mingo123

Lems tells cows not to hide behind the PC.. how about taking your own advice for once?It's bad one both systems, just because one is worse don't use that to downplay how bad yours is.

TC is a hardcore hermit lol, piracy on pc is way worse then on 360

Piracy is piracy dude what are you talking about, like Espada12 said jus beacuse one is worse don't use thath to downplay how bad is yours. Here in Bolivia every 360 that i've saw its already modded and they sell the games at 60 BS (9 dolars)

Piracy is inevitable. And its good for me since i cannot afford a 60 $ game every week.

I thought us consolites were far too lazy to do stuff like this.

angryfodder

Yep I am far too lazy..... I have even started only playing xbox arcade games because I just cant be bothered to find a game disk to stick in the drive to play it anymore!

..... pirating games? - Who can be bothered lol - Lifes just too short and this bed is just sooo comfortable....mmmm.... ZZZZzzzz....

Lol at hermits trying to put the piracy tag on lemmings, I can bet you anything that 99% of lemmings do not pirate games on 360, where as most hermits probably do pirate games. MS can send a update to kill your console at any time if you mess with it, and most lemmings would not dream of "hacking" their 360 and voiding the warranty.

And announcing the release of Far cry 2 torrent in a topic like this is only making things worse,

stupid dumb topic.

Don't you need a modded machine to play pirated 360 games? I'll just stick with buying games when they come out.ONLYDOD

And as for undetectable hacks, I would imagine the big Fall Update will include a few nasty surprises. Nice thing about updatable firmware. You can usually find ways to plug the leaks.

I saw the 360 version of Dead Space up there as well.

I don't know why one of these companies doesn't just secretly hire someone to take out the bloody PB server, they know where it is but a legal loophole stops them from taking it down.

Lol at hermits trying to put the piracy tag on lemmings, I can bet you anything that 99% of lemmings do not pirate games on 360, where as most hermits probably do pirate games. MS can send a update to kill your console at any time if you mess with it, and most lemmings would not dream of "hacking" their 360 and voiding the warranty.

And announcing the release of Far cry 2 torrent in a topic like this is only making things worse,

stupid dumb topic.

-NickJC1-

I think you have some of your facts wrong......I know a lot of people who pirate console games...in fact i know people who buy the console soley for the purpose of pirating, its quite useful as a cheap home entertainment system

Microsoft really needs to plug the piracy hole and fast.UnnDunn

There's not much they can do about it - the pirate groups find new ways to steal constantly - fighting the "technical war" is really just about ensuring that it's difficult to do, it doesn't shut it down entirely. Hell, a lot of Sony fans believed the PS3 was immune - "no one can pirate the Blu-Ray!" and yet the PS3 has a piracy scene as well. This problem is not platform-specific - piracy is hurting all platforms, all parties, and all publishers. We need to find a solution to these scum who are distributing stolen games, a solution that works without harming the honest gamers.

LOL. At people acting like piracy on the 360 is a new thing. What's next? A thread about the economy sucking and possibly affecting your gaming decisions this holiday season?

That might have been a better thread.

Let me save you the trouble of a future thread. Gears Of War 2 will be pirated also. Oh noes. Newflash! I'll bet The first one was pirated and some how Epic made bundles of cash. I don't condone piracy in anyway but these threads popping up lately are a bit ridiculous.

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]Microsoft really needs to plug the piracy hole and fast.subrosian

There's not much they can do about it - the pirate groups find new ways to steal constantly - fighting the "technical war" is really just about ensuring that it's difficult to do, it doesn't shut it down entirely. Hell, a lot of Sony fans believed the PS3 was immune - "no one can pirate the Blu-Ray!" and yet the PS3 has a piracy scene as well. This problem is not platform-specific - piracy is hurting all platforms, all parties, and all publishers. We need to find a solution to these scum who are distributing stolen games, a solution that works without harming the honest gamers.

As for piracy control, the publishers find themselves in a pickle. There are two levels of control they track: that which is enough to sufficiently deter piracy, and that which honest customers find irksome. Unfortunately, the latter appears to currently be below the former...and separating. It's a no-win scenario: you either lose money from excess piracy, or you lose customers because they don't like the way you treat them.

I saw the 360 version of Dead Space up there as well.

I don't know why one of these companies doesn't just secretly hire someone to take out the bloody PB server, they know where it is but a legal loophole stops them from taking it down.

AnnoyedDragon

I wonder if xkojimax has started downloading it yet...

Anyway, I am quite tired of all this piracy. It is becoming ridiculous. I don't know if it is just getting more press coverage this generation or if it is actually a lot more prominent but this needs to stop.

spinecaton

[QUOTE="subrosian"]

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]Microsoft really needs to plug the piracy hole and fast.HuusAsking

There's not much they can do about it - the pirate groups find new ways to steal constantly - fighting the "technical war" is really just about ensuring that it's difficult to do, it doesn't shut it down entirely. Hell, a lot of Sony fans believed the PS3 was immune - "no one can pirate the Blu-Ray!" and yet the PS3 has a piracy scene as well. This problem is not platform-specific - piracy is hurting all platforms, all parties, and all publishers. We need to find a solution to these scum who are distributing stolen games, a solution that works without harming the honest gamers.

As for piracy control, the publishers find themselves in a pickle. There are two levels of control they track: that which is enough to sufficiently deter piracy, and that which honest customers find irksome. Unfortunately, the latter appears to currently be below the former...and separating. It's a no-win scenario: you either lose money from excess piracy, or you lose customers because they don't like the way you treat them.

Right, which is why many of the smaller publishers are changing how their profit model operates. Take games like Maple Story - you can't steal the game, it's free, but you get people to invest time. If even a small portion of the audience is willing to pay for premium content or merchandise, you've profited. The so called "leaches" (people who play without paying anything) are actually helping your game - they provide characters who are far more interactive than NPCs, and yet you don't have to program them, script them, or maintain them. Those "leaches" populate the servers that your premium (paying) members enjoy. With these games you can give everything away, because you profit when people enjoy the product and want to pay you for even more, but of course then you're betting on building a real fanbase before you see significant money.

-

The other functional model is the tight-knit "developer-gamer" model being used by Stardock, where paying the small entry fee for the game and eventually $10 for the expansion pack is just part of being in that community. It's profitable because you get a dedicated following who is really invested into your product - and it makes the piracy almost pointless. Who is going to pirate a game that's really about playing week long space battles with other enthusiasts? They're not - there's little incentive.

-

But those models don't work with big games like Far Cry 2, Halo 3, Fallout 3, etc ... where you're betting on having these multi-million sales figures to cover your costs. What can you do with those kind of games, where there are that many copies, and that many opportunities for piracy to arrise? I don't know - they're giant targets for the bad guys here, and that makes them hard to defend.

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]Microsoft really needs to plug the piracy hole and fast.subrosian

There's not much they can do about it - the pirate groups find new ways to steal constantly - fighting the "technical war" is really just about ensuring that it's difficult to do, it doesn't shut it down entirely. Hell, a lot of Sony fans believed the PS3 was immune - "no one can pirate the Blu-Ray!" and yet the PS3 has a piracy scene as well. This problem is not platform-specific - piracy is hurting all platforms, all parties, and all publishers. We need to find a solution to these scum who are distributing stolen games, a solution that works without harming the honest gamers.

Of course, that all assumes (again) that Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit once and for all. It remains to be seen whether they can do that with Xbox 360, but it will definitely be something they look at for the next Xbox.

If Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit, the pirates will have no choice but to try attacking the hypervisor again. The problem with attacking the hypervisor is that any such attack will only work on a single console; to attack a second console, the attacker basically has to start from scratch. Attacks on the hypervisor are also easily detectable through firmware checks, and any firmware patches (delivered on game discs as well as on xbox live) will also send the attacker back to the drawing board. The end result is that hypervisor attacks will be too much of a hassle for the vast majority of "casual pirates" to implement and maintain. Of course, there will be a subset of hardcore pirates who love the challenge of staying one step ahead of Microsoft, but hypervisor attacks will be impractical for the vast majority of pirates who just want to steal games. At the end of the day, that will prove satisfactory to Microsoft.

Of course, that all assumes (again) that Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit once and for all. It remains to be seen whether they can do that with Xbox 360, but it will definitely be something they look at for the next Xbox.

UnnDunn

I'm not at liberty to discuss the specifics of how pirates do what they do on consoles (and I'd suggest you don't do it either if you value not being suspended from GS). All I can say is, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter HOW they do it - there will always be another way, another loophole, another platform. They will always find the path of least resistance, and pirate in that manner.

There's no such thing as 100% security, at least, not without severely inconveniencing the people who legitimately buy your games. How this is happening is not really the big issue for me. What's important is - System Wars - it's time to stop making piracy a "one platform vs another" issue. Piracy should really be about us, the gamer, versus them, the people who harm our beloved developers by feeling entitled to use product they haven't paid for.

This IS an issue that affects all gamers, because publishers are going to have to find ways to control piracy, and we, the legitimate consumer, are stuck in that crossfire.

I'm not at liberty to discuss the specifics of how pirates do what they do on consoles (and I'd suggest you don't do it either if you value not being suspended from GS). All I can say is, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter HOW they do it - there will always be another way, another loophole, another platform. They will always find the path of least resistance, and pirate in that manner.

subrosian

Could they potentially include new DVD-ROM firmwares with the Fall Update, complete with new signatures? IINM, some of the exploits work by write-protecting the firmware and sending false values, but a new official firmware could expose these. Plus these new firmwares could probably include their own write-protection to close the loophole once it's been applied.HuusAsking

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]

If Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit, the pirates will have no choice but to try attacking the hypervisor again. The problem with attacking the hypervisor is that any such attack will only work on a single console; to attack a second console, the attacker basically has to start from scratch. Attacks on the hypervisor are also easily detectable through firmware checks, and any firmware patches (delivered on game discs as well as on xbox live) will also send the attacker back to the drawing board. The end result is that hypervisor attacks will be too much of a hassle for the vast majority of "casual pirates" to implement and maintain. Of course, there will be a subset of hardcore pirates who love the challenge of staying one step ahead of Microsoft, but hypervisor attacks will be impractical for the vast majority of pirates who just want to steal games. At the end of the day, that will prove satisfactory to Microsoft.

Of course, that all assumes (again) that Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit once and for all. It remains to be seen whether they can do that with Xbox 360, but it will definitely be something they look at for the next Xbox.

HuusAsking

Negative. The only way they could do that would be to require a HDD for the update, which would be a red flag for pirates everywhere.

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"]

If Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit, the pirates will have no choice but to try attacking the hypervisor again. The problem with attacking the hypervisor is that any such attack will only work on a single console; to attack a second console, the attacker basically has to start from scratch. Attacks on the hypervisor are also easily detectable through firmware checks, and any firmware patches (delivered on game discs as well as on xbox live) will also send the attacker back to the drawing board. The end result is that hypervisor attacks will be too much of a hassle for the vast majority of "casual pirates" to implement and maintain. Of course, there will be a subset of hardcore pirates who love the challenge of staying one step ahead of Microsoft, but hypervisor attacks will be impractical for the vast majority of pirates who just want to steal games. At the end of the day, that will prove satisfactory to Microsoft.

Of course, that all assumes (again) that Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit once and for all. It remains to be seen whether they can do that with Xbox 360, but it will definitely be something they look at for the next Xbox.

HuusAsking

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Could they potentially include new DVD-ROM firmwares with the Fall Update, complete with new signatures? IINM, some of the exploits work by write-protecting the firmware and sending false values, but a new official firmware could expose these. Plus these new firmwares could probably include their own write-protection to close the loophole once it's been applied.Hitman_887

[QUOTE="Hitman_887"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Could they potentially include new DVD-ROM firmwares with the Fall Update, complete with new signatures? IINM, some of the exploits work by write-protecting the firmware and sending false values, but a new official firmware could expose these. Plus these new firmwares could probably include their own write-protection to close the loophole once it's been applied.UnnDunn

No way can they make it compulsory to update.

[QUOTE="UnnDunn"][QUOTE="Hitman_887"][QUOTE="HuusAsking"]Could they potentially include new DVD-ROM firmwares with the Fall Update, complete with new signatures? IINM, some of the exploits work by write-protecting the firmware and sending false values, but a new official firmware could expose these. Plus these new firmwares could probably include their own write-protection to close the loophole once it's been applied.Hitman_887

No way can they make it compulsory to update.

[QUOTE="lantus"][QUOTE="PS3_3DO"]

Did you hear about that new Law Bush signed. I bet a lot of pirates are going to lose all their PCs in their homes if they get caught. I bet a lot of those pirates don't even have a modded 360! :lol:

cobrax75

That law he's proposing isn't going to get passed, it would theoretically mean everyone whose found with any piece of pirated software, music, video etc would be arrested.

Its already been passed I believe....

[QUOTE="HuusAsking"][QUOTE="UnnDunn"]

If Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit, the pirates will have no choice but to try attacking the hypervisor again. The problem with attacking the hypervisor is that any such attack will only work on a single console; to attack a second console, the attacker basically has to start from scratch. Attacks on the hypervisor are also easily detectable through firmware checks, and any firmware patches (delivered on game discs as well as on xbox live) will also send the attacker back to the drawing board. The end result is that hypervisor attacks will be too much of a hassle for the vast majority of "casual pirates" to implement and maintain. Of course, there will be a subset of hardcore pirates who love the challenge of staying one step ahead of Microsoft, but hypervisor attacks will be impractical for the vast majority of pirates who just want to steal games. At the end of the day, that will prove satisfactory to Microsoft.

Of course, that all assumes (again) that Microsoft is able to plug the DVD ROM firmware exploit once and for all. It remains to be seen whether they can do that with Xbox 360, but it will definitely be something they look at for the next Xbox.

Cali3350

Negative. The only way they could do that would be to require a HDD for the update, which would be a red flag for pirates everywhere.