FFXIII-2 - Be careful what you wish for

[QUOTE="vashkey"]Why would having a less focused story be a bad thing when it's a sequel to a game with a bad story? While it may not be a straight up positive change it certainly doesn't hurt the game.GreySeal9

Not everybody thinks FFXIII had a bad story.

I think it had a poorly told story rather than a bad story.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="vashkey"]Why would having a less focused story be a bad thing when it's a sequel to a game with a bad story? While it may not be a straight up positive change it certainly doesn't hurt the game.vashkey

Not everybody thinks FFXIII had a bad story.

I think it had a poorly told story rather than a bad story.

I'll definitely give you akwardness, but I didn't think the characters were bad. I actually liked most of them.

If you're not forced to spend 90% of the game walking down narrow corridors, I might actually give this game a chance.

Why would having a less focused story be a bad thing when it's a sequel to a game with a bad story? While it may not be a straight up positive change it certainly doesn't hurt the game.vashkey

I don't think FFXIII was outright "bad," but I definitely agree that it was poorly told. I do think the game had many interesting elements. But if they're going to base a new game on the world of FFXIII because it had interesting elements and totally mismanage them, then it's not worth it.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Really, the story of FFXIII takes a nosedive as soon as they hit the Ark. The only saving grace of the Ark was Cid, and then half of the game is spent on an aimless search on Gran Pulse for something that isn't there, only for things to suddenly to start happening again in Ch 12 and then the game ends.

Maybe this would have been solved if they had given up on the "everyone on Pulse is dead" idea.

texasgoldrush

"Mindlessly convoluted?" :lol:

Anyways, texas, you haven't even played FFXIII.

I actually liked FFXII its one of my favorites, The problem for me with FFXIII was the story and dialogue, Square seems to think we are still teenagers and so write super chessy emo story lines about angst ridden rebels. Now I know WRPG have almost identical problems what with you being the chosen one or whatever but at least the writing is solid, you don't cringe every time someone opens their mouth. Give us sensible story please with likable characters

Just looking at 13-2, I can already see its going to be a steaming pile of manure storywise.

eh maybe 13 2 will actually be a good game now.

FF13 has better graphics than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a better battle system than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger story with more character development thany our favorite RPG, FF13 has better sound than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger budget with more time effort and talent put into than your favorite RPG.

HATERS GONNA HATE.

FF13 has better graphics than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a better battle system than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger story with more character development thany our favorite RPG, FF13 has better sound than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger budget with more time effort and talent put into than your favorite RPG.

HATERS GONNA HATE.

crimsonman1245

Don't push it.

I know that I am probably in the minorite here but I'm really excited for this game. FF XIII was really great I thought and the way XIII-2 is going to differ also has me excited. So bring it on I say.

FF13 has better graphics than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a better battle system than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger story with more character development thany our favorite RPG, FF13 has better sound than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger budget with more time effort and talent put into than your favorite RPG.

HATERS GONNA HATE.

crimsonman1245

I didn't enjoy the battle system or the dialogue in XIII, and that was most of the game.

it's based on a bad game, the chances this game is on par with other good FF games are very slim.

I actually liked FFX-2...

I hope FFXIII-2 is a lot better than XIII.

I don't know what Square can do at this point. There really isn't any way to make a current gen game that follows the 1-9 formula/style. It's one of the reasons a FF7 remake for current gen would disappoint so many - that world/story simply couldn't be recreated today without huge concessions.

At the same time, Square's attempt to create a current gen FF with XIII was definitely not perfect. They cut so many parts of the old FF formula to tell the story they wanted to tell, and even with all of the concessions it wasn't up to par with their earlier stories.

I think one of the main reasons for that is that the cutscenes were so meticulously crafted and designed that they had to drastically cut down their number. When I think back to earlier entries, there are tonnes of minor scenes throughout the game just focusing on small interactions between the characters. It helped the player get to know and grow attached to the characters and the world. By the end of XIII I just didn't have that same attachment. I couldn't care about the characters and their struggle because I still felt like I barely knew them.

So I honestly don't have any clue what they can do. They can't make em like they used to, and yet they can't lean too much in the direction of WRPGs either (like it seems they might be doing with XIII-2). They're in a real tough spot atm with FF.

I actually liked FFXII its one of my favorites, The problem for me with FFXIII was the story and dialogue, Square seems to think we are still teenagers and so write super chessy emo story lines about angst ridden rebels. Now I know WRPG have almost identical problems what with you being the chosen one or whatever but at least the writing is solid, you don't cringe every time someone opens their mouth. Give us sensible story please with likable characters

Just looking at 13-2, I can already see its going to be a steaming pile of manure storywise.

musalala

I don't think it's the subject matter, it's how it's written and portrayed.

I don't know what Square can do at this point. There really isn't any way to make a current gen game that follows the 1-9 formula/style. It's one of the reasons a FF7 remake for current gen would disappoint so many - that world/story simply couldn't be recreated today without huge concessions.

At the same time, Square's attempt to create a current gen FF with XIII was definitely not perfect. They cut so many parts of the old FF formula to tell the story they wanted to tell, and even with all of the concessions it wasn't up to par with their earlier stories.

I think one of the main reasons for that is that the cutscenes were so meticulously crafted and designed that they had to drastically cut down their number. When I think back to earlier entries, there are tonnes of minor scenes throughout the game just focusing on small interactions between the characters. It helped the player get to know and grow attached to the characters and the world. By the end of XIII I just didn't have that same attachment. I couldn't care about the characters and their struggle because I still felt like I barely knew them.

So I honestly don't have any clue what they can do. They can't make em like they used to, and yet they can't lean too much in the direction of WRPGs either (like it seems they might be doing with XIII-2). They're in a real tough spot atm with FF.

Juken7

Well, with FFVII they would essentially be asked to spend far more money on the project with less returns. They have to find something that works. One thing that they've discovered they can do to partially offset that problem is actually localize the game in Chinese and Korean.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Really, the story of FFXIII takes a nosedive as soon as they hit the Ark. The only saving grace of the Ark was Cid, and then half of the game is spent on an aimless search on Gran Pulse for something that isn't there, only for things to suddenly to start happening again in Ch 12 and then the game ends.

Maybe this would have been solved if they had given up on the "everyone on Pulse is dead" idea.

hakanakumono

"Mindlessly convoluted?" :lol:

Anyways, texas, you haven't even played FFXIII.

FF13 has better graphics than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a better battle system than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger story with more character development thany our favorite RPG, FF13 has better sound than your favorite RPG, FF13 has a bigger budget with more time effort and talent put into than your favorite RPG.

HATERS GONNA HATE.

crimsonman1245

FFXIII may be story driven, but it wasn't very good.

I thought FFX-2 was a good game that everyone hated because it pales in comparison to FFX, which was a great game.

Oh, God. Another FFX-2.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] The story takes a nose dive as soon as it starts...terrible written story is terrible. And FFXIII-2 will be no different. As long as you have poor dialogue, chiched and annoying characters, a generic plot that is mindlessly convoluted, it won't matter how nonlinear it is. FFXV should be written by Chris Avellone or Drew Kaspyryn, they know how to do nonlinear plots. And Avellone wrote a nonlinear story in 1999 that kills any JRPG story. At least with nonlinearity and open world gameplay, you can mask poor writing....see Oblivion (thats not the Shivering Isles expansion, that was well written) or Fallout 3. Both had poor writing, but it didn't matter as its open nature was so strong that it ultimately overcame this. JRPGs on the other hand, cannot really overcome bad storytelling.texasgoldrush

"Mindlessly convoluted?" :lol:

Anyways, texas, you haven't even played FFXIII.

When he laughs at the phrase "mindlessly convoluted", he's laughing because the phrase is contradictory. When a story is convoluted, the writer is overthinking it, which runs counter to the idea of being "mindless". That phrase simply doesn't make sense.

It's not just that FF13 was linear. In fact a little liniarity can be good when done correctly. It's that there really was no variety AT ALL in the game play. It was literally fight fight fight cutscene, fight fight fight cutscene, fight fight fight cutscene over and over and over again. That there were no towns to explore, no NpC's to interact with, no side quests or storys to discover, made the game very one dimentional and very repetative.

Final Fantasy needs to go The Witcher, Tactics Ogre, or Jade Empire format, now. They can still be linear however, your choices change the plotline and character relationships. They need BRANCHING plotlines, not necesarily open world.texasgoldrush

Imo it would water down what Final Fanatsy is, a dence story, if openess in FF then something like FFXII. I don't want JRPG to become WRPG

LMA:lol:, rap? Yes. Deal wit it. 8)

---

I think 13-2 (I write it like that because I want to) will be good, though.

I know that I am probably in the minorite here but I'm really excited for this game. FF XIII was really great I thought and the way XIII-2 is going to differ also has me excited. So bring it on I say.

Darth-Samus

Oh, God. Another FFX-2.

DarkLink77

I don't think that's really the case.

FFX-2 was drastically different than FFX. XIII-2 will be more of a sequel than X-2 ever was. Similar game systems are being retainted, save for more "openess" that people clamored for so much. I think it's pretty cool that the game will have multiple endings, too. Generally, fans of role-playing games like that.

And even though there will be some rap sprinkled in (which I like, if it fits :P), the beautiful orchestral tracks will return in a big way.

Edit: But remember, not all hip-hop is created equally! Just like one wouldn't listen to just 'any' rock / pop song. They should get The RZA to produce some tracks, lol.

Not sure why people are comparing it to FFX-2. I think Square-Enix has understood by now that the majority of FF fans pretty much despised FFX-2 in every way. It would be silly to make another charlies angels spin off.

It's not just that FF13 was linear. In fact a little liniarity can be good when done correctly. It's that there really was no variety AT ALL in the game play. It was literally fight fight fight cutscene, fight fight fight cutscene, fight fight fight cutscene over and over and over again. That there were no towns to explore, no NpC's to interact with, no side quests or storys to discover, made the game very one dimentional and very repetative.

Pray_to_me

Right. Although I ultimately didn't mind the game, it needed more. Like it's been said previously in this thread, Square doesn't seems to be moving to another extreme. This time they're taking notes on what western players want, but it doesn't seem like a project that will realize what their personal ambitions are in creating a game.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Oh, God. Another FFX-2.

Episode_Eve

I don't think that's really the case.

FFX-2 was drastically different than FFX. XIII-2 will be more of a sequel than X-2 ever was. Similar game systems are being retainted, save for more "openess" that people clamored for so much. I think it's pretty cool that the game will have multiple endings, too. Generally, fans of role-playing games like that.

And even though there will be some rap sprinkled in (which I like, if it fits :P), the beautiful orchestral tracks will return in a big way.

Edit: But remember, not all hip-hop is created equally! Just like one wouldn't listen to just 'any' rock / pop song. They should get The RZA to produce some tracks, lol.

I'm afraid the rap will feel like cheap pop, more than anything. Really, I can't imagine it being anything but terribly cheesy in a JRPG. They'd have to hire a real poet to make it work.

I'm afraid the rap will feel like cheap pop, more than anything. Really, I can't imagine it being anything but terribly cheesy in a JRPG. They'd have to hire a real poet to make it work.

hakanakumono

Yeah, that's the thing I'm afraid of. They have great composers / producers for their other tracks, but they may just get some random rapper / producer(s) for the other stuff. I like the move, but it has to be handled appropriately. I think you may be right in your comparison.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I'm afraid the rap will feel like cheap pop, more than anything. Really, I can't imagine it being anything but terribly cheesy in a JRPG. They'd have to hire a real poet to make it work.

Episode_Eve

Yeah, that's the thing I'm afraid of. They have great composers / producers for their other tracks, but they may just get some random rapper / producer(s) for the other stuff. I like the move, but it has to be handled appropriately. I think you may be right in your comparison.

It probably wont even be a rapper.

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

I'm afraid the rap will feel like cheap pop, more than anything. Really, I can't imagine it being anything but terribly cheesy in a JRPG. They'd have to hire a real poet to make it work.

hakanakumono

Yeah, that's the thing I'm afraid of. They have great composers / producers for their other tracks, but they may just get some random rapper / producer(s) for the other stuff. I like the move, but it has to be handled appropriately. I think you may be right in your comparison.

It probably wont even be a rapper.

:lol:

Oh, man, you're scaring me. :?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]

Yeah, that's the thing I'm afraid of. They have great composers / producers for their other tracks, but they may just get some random rapper / producer(s) for the other stuff. I like the move, but it has to be handled appropriately. I think you may be right in your comparison.

Episode_Eve

It probably wont even be a rapper.

:lol:

Oh, man, you're scaring me. :?

Final Fantasy X-2 wasn't character base, It felt more mission based to me. Plus I don't get all the hate on FF X-2 either. It was a greatgame

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

It probably wont even be a rapper.

Jynxzor

:lol:

Oh, man, you're scaring me. :?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="Episode_Eve"]

Yeah, that's the thing I'm afraid of. They have great composers / producers for their other tracks, but they may just get some random rapper / producer(s) for the other stuff. I like the move, but it has to be handled appropriately. I think you may be right in your comparison.

Episode_Eve

It probably wont even be a rapper.

:lol:

Oh, man, you're scaring me. :?

I hope I'm wrong.

you had to remind me of tha abomination final fantasy barbie girl x-2

Final Fantasy X-2 wasn't character base, It felt more mission based to me. Plus I don't get all the hate on FF X-2 either. It was a greatgame

hayato_

Hey, I enjoyed X-2 as well, but 10 owns it hardcore, of course.

[QUOTE="hayato_"]

Final Fantasy X-2 wasn't character base, It felt more mission based to me. Plus I don't get all the hate on FF X-2 either. It was a greatgame

Episode_Eve

Hey, I enjoyed X-2 as well, but 10 owns it hardcore, of course.

Also almost every FF was better than 10. :P

If there's one thing SE needs to bring back, it's the job system Final Fantasy V had.

I'm 55 hours into FF12 and loving every minute of it. I haven't played 13 yet, but I'll give it a try only cause its Final Fantasy. 13-2 prob won't interest me unless I dig 13.

But I have high ass hopes for Versus. I'm scared the game ain't coming out till like 2014, I've heard like no new things bout it since like last year lol.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

"Mindlessly convoluted?" :lol:

Anyways, texas, you haven't even played FFXIII.

GreySeal9

When he laughs at the phrase "mindlessly convoluted", he's laughing because the phrase is contradictory. When a story is convoluted, the writer is overthinking it, which runs counter to the idea of being "mindless". That phrase simply doesn't make sense.