Final Fantasy 12 vs Final Fantasy 13

[QUOTE="commonfate"]

[QUOTE="Deadbeatcobra"]

FF12 is the better game, the battle system, the open world, a more political centered story mixed up to make a great game. My only gripe is the main character Vaan... He served no purpose and makes you wonder why he even exists xD But I guess thats what happens when a character is added at the last minute to appeal to the younger crowd...

hakanakumono

Yup, Basch was the originally intended main character but once the game switched developers midway through the story kinda suffered a bit for it. One of those changes was to include Penelo and Vaan but god forbid a FF game have adults at its storyline

I've heard this from fans, but I have never seen anything that suggests more than it being a change that occurred very early on in development. Vaan is a male lead along the lines of Denim and Ramza before him and I see no reason to believe he wasn't intended to be the main character, despite the fact that the story never brings the special relationship that starts to develop between him and Ashe to fruition.

In some ways I think Ashe could have been the main character as well.

Either Basch or Ashe would have been much better and more suitable main protagonist than Vaan though.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="commonfate"]

Yup, Basch was the originally intended main character but once the game switched developers midway through the story kinda suffered a bit for it. One of those changes was to include Penelo and Vaan but god forbid a FF game have adults at its storyline

DJ-Lafleur

I've heard this from fans, but I have never seen anything that suggests more than it being a change that occurred very early on in development. Vaan is a male lead along the lines of Denim and Ramza before him and I see no reason to believe he wasn't intended to be the main character, despite the fact that the story never brings the special relationship that starts to develop between him and Ashe to fruition.

In some ways I think Ashe could have been the main character as well.

Either Basch or Ashe would have been much better and more suitable main protagonist than Vaan though.

Perhaps. The story certainly centered around her. But I think the story was trying to develop something between the two of them that just fizzled out. FFXII had good ideas, but not enough character development to hold up the story and the whole

SPOILERS

Occuria should have been a plot twist, but didn't change the direction of the story whatsoever.

As for Basch, I can't really see him as anything but a side character. Basch is a JRPG archetype, just like Vaan is. Perhaps they ought to change it up, but I don't see Basch as a lead.

[QUOTE="madsnakehhh"]

Never played 12 but 13 is pretty good so i'm going to go with that one.

Oil_rope_bombs

No doubt my vote will ruin this poll thus making it useless and we will never know the answer of such an important question...

[QUOTE="Oil_rope_bombs"][QUOTE="madsnakehhh"]

Never played 12 but 13 is pretty good so i'm going to go with that one.

madsnakehhh

No doubt my vote will ruin this poll thus making it useless and we will never know the answer of such an important question...

LOL I gatta admit man that was a good one. As we all know polls are factual......:P

FF XIII i enjoyed the combat more and i liked the story more even if it wasn't told all that well.

spookykid143

This combat was horribly boring in FF12. Also the Chrystarium while basic in FF13 was miles better than the FF12 license system which I HATED. Both pale in comparison to FF10 though.

FF13 was decent, crappy story was really disappointing

FF12 was abysmal mess, tried to like it few times but can't get past first few hours

FF12: bad, FF13: even worse, FF14: we stopped trying

My pick is Final Fantasy XII.

FF 13 has a better battle system and visuals.

FF 12 was OK but nothing special and FF 13 was a disaster and a bore fest. It's a shame Square can't make anything good anymore....

Just go buy Skyrim when it comes out or Mass effect, those are two RPG's that are ACTUALLY good.

FF 12 was OK but nothing special and FF 13 was a disaster and a bore fest. It's a shame Square can't make anything good anymore....

Just go buy Skyrim when it comes out or Mass effect, those are two RPG's that are ACTUALLY good.

ShadowMoses900

Keep your poor excuses for RPGs out of a Final Fantasy discussion thread, mmkay? What makes those games "good" is subjective.

12 is by far the better game and ranks as one of the best in the series. Had Matsuno finished what he started, it would have been the best FF game.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

FF 12 was OK but nothing special and FF 13 was a disaster and a bore fest. It's a shame Square can't make anything good anymore....

Just go buy Skyrim when it comes out or Mass effect, those are two RPG's that are ACTUALLY good.

mmmwksil

Keep your poor excuses for RPGs out of a Final Fantasy discussion thread, mmkay? What makes those games "good" is subjective.

It is indeed subjective...but let's be honest here, mmkay?

You know you miss the good old days when Square made amazing epics like FF7 and the Chrono Games ect... I can even remember the awesome soundtracks to many of those, games. That's how awesome they were. Remember when you first step out of Midgar (or whatever it's called)? Or when you got your first summmon? Or when everyone was SO excited about the newest Square game coming out?

Square just doesn't make the same games anymore, yes they may have the words "Final Fantasy" in the title, but they don't really play or feel like a FF game at all. You can deny it all you want but Square is no longer the giant or innovator like they used to be.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

FF 12 was OK but nothing special and FF 13 was a disaster and a bore fest. It's a shame Square can't make anything good anymore....

Just go buy Skyrim when it comes out or Mass effect, those are two RPG's that are ACTUALLY good.

ShadowMoses900

Keep your poor excuses for RPGs out of a Final Fantasy discussion thread, mmkay? What makes those games "good" is subjective.

It is indeed subjective...but let's be honest here, mmkay?

You know you miss the good old days when Square made amazing epics like FF7 and the Chrono Games ect... I can even remember the awesome soundtracks to many of those, games. That's how awesome they were. Remember when you first step out of Midgar (or whatever it's called)? Or when you got your first summmon? Or when everyone was SO excited about the newest Square game coming out?

Square just doesn't make the same games anymore, yes they may have the words "Final Fantasy" in the title, but they don't really play or feel like a FF game at all. You can deny it all you want but Square is no longer the giant or innovator like they used to be.

I never said they were. They have indeed fallen, most likely never to be redeemed. Still, FFXII still had the FF feel you speak of, just so subdued you could hardly smell it. That was Matsuno's touch.

I just wanted to keep the thread on FF discussion, is all. No offense, good man.

Ehhh. Seems like I've done this argument a couple times before here.

So I'll just say XIII, and to me it isn't that close.

[QUOTE="ShadowMoses900"]

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

Keep your poor excuses for RPGs out of a Final Fantasy discussion thread, mmkay? What makes those games "good" is subjective.

mmmwksil

It is indeed subjective...but let's be honest here, mmkay?

You know you miss the good old days when Square made amazing epics like FF7 and the Chrono Games ect... I can even remember the awesome soundtracks to many of those, games. That's how awesome they were. Remember when you first step out of Midgar (or whatever it's called)? Or when you got your first summmon? Or when everyone was SO excited about the newest Square game coming out?

Square just doesn't make the same games anymore, yes they may have the words "Final Fantasy" in the title, but they don't really play or feel like a FF game at all. You can deny it all you want but Square is no longer the giant or innovator like they used to be.

I never said they were. They have indeed fallen, most likely never to be redeemed. Still, FFXII still had the FF feel you speak of, just so subdued you could hardly smell it. That was Matsuno's touch.

I just wanted to keep the thread on FF discussion, is all. No offense, good man.

Nah don't worry about offending me, I don't get offended over anonymes people over the internet. That would just be silly.... although I think the Fanboys on SW definatley get offended lol.

Hard to say. I hated the characters in both pretty much but Lightning was at least better than the she-male vaan and I thought that some aspects of FXIII's combat was better. I think overall, FF12 had the better story though and was probably the better game.

ff13 at least it kept turnbased, there are not many of these more but imo the best turnbased rpg in this generation was clearly the last remnant. The game really proved that turnbasedrpgs can work graphicly and gameplaywise in this age. Of course i am talking about the pc version.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

XII was the better Final Fantasy. Expansive world to explore, memorable locales, great soundtrack, amazing voice talent, superb script, flexible combat engine. It was (IMO) an offline MMO Final Fantasy and it rocked.

XIII was not a bad game (contrary to SW propaganda). It was no where near as expansive or memorable as XII, but it had plenty going for it. The combat engine was fast and enjoyable, locales a sheer feast for the eyes, some overall quality voice acting. I'd take XII 8/10 times over XIII, but I'd definitely play both several times through.

skanjos

whaaaaaat?

hello i am penelo, i want to be a sky pirate, hello i am van i want to be a sky pirate too, hi did i mention my name is penelo and i want to be a sky pirate? hi my name is vaan i want to be a sky pirate..........

seriusly it was even worst than the 2 kids in lost odyssey mac and cooke....

ff13 at least it kept turnbased, there are not many of these more but imo the best turnbased rpg in this generation was clearly the last remnant. The game really proved that turnbasedrpgs can work graphicly and gameplaywise in this age. Of course i am talking about the pc version.

HFkami

I think Sqeenix can redeem themselves. Take Tetsuya Nomura's pens and pencils off him. He hasn't designed a decent character since Final Fantasy X. He should continue to direct games (he did a good job on kingdom hearts).

I think Sqeenix can redeem themselves. Take Tetsuya Nomura's pens and pencils off him. He hasn't designed a decent character since Final Fantasy X. He should continue to direct games (he did a good job on kingdom hearts).

SteamedBennet

Wuh..wait..what...huh?

Look at my sig lol.

I think Sqeenix can redeem themselves. Take Tetsuya Nomura's pens and pencils off him. He hasn't designed a decent character since Final Fantasy X. He should continue to direct games (he did a good job on kingdom hearts).

SteamedBennet

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

I think Sqeenix can redeem themselves. Take Tetsuya Nomura's pens and pencils off him. He hasn't designed a decent character since Final Fantasy X. He should continue to direct games (he did a good job on kingdom hearts).

jasonharris48

Probably not, but it helps to point the finger at someone :P

Personally, I'd love it if Square actually took a chance and tried a different visual approach to the next Final Fantasy. I always envisioned Amano's designs translating well with current generation graphics, almost like Okami did for PS2.

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

I think Sqeenix can redeem themselves. Take Tetsuya Nomura's pens and pencils off him. He hasn't designed a decent character since Final Fantasy X. He should continue to direct games (he did a good job on kingdom hearts).

mmmwksil

Probably not, but it helps to point the finger at someone :P

Personally, I'd love it if Square actually took a chance and tried a different visual approach to the next Final Fantasy. I always envisioned Amano's designs translating well with current generation graphics, almost like Okami did for PS2.

I was meant to have more points to how they could improve, but I got bored halfway through typing my post. :P I'm saying that Nomura's character designs have become... generic. His character design have become less relevant, and trying out a new character designer couldn't hurt. For the record, I liked XIII (I plat'd it), but not for the characters or story (which I thought were bland), but I liked the gameplay (especially the battle system).

They could benefit from a new team, with a new perspective.

FF 12 was OK but nothing special and FF 13 was a disaster and a bore fest. It's a shame Square can't make anything good anymore....

Just go buy Skyrim when it comes out or Mass effect, those are two RPG's that are ACTUALLY good.

ShadowMoses900

Thats opinion not fact buddy. Just cause your disapointed doesint mean the game actually sucks. FF13 imo was a really good game.

The only aspects I could think FF13 outdid its 12th predecessor are,

• Better battle system (subjective, in some ways I actually prefered FF12 combat)
• Better fleshed out primary protagonists (though FF12 main party brimmed with more personality)
• Musical score (For me, no contest, just because of how good FF13 soundtrack is)
• GRAPHICCSS (again, subjective. FF12 art direction protrayed an Ivalice-meets-Star Wars universe very appropriately, but I preferred FF13 visuals and art design, albeit slightly)
• A better plot

When I say FF13 had a better plot, I don't necessarily mean it has a better story. FF12 has abloody jolly script and its characters for the most part are likable or sympathisable. FF12 also has a very interesting universe, so is FF13, but FF13 definitely skimped out in bringing substance to its mythos, FF12 as well to an extent.

On the other hand, FF12 plot is disjointed and felt scrapped together. There are some narrative highlights to be had, the first meetings with Balthier, Fran, Ashe and Basch, the Mt.Bur-Ominace slaughther, Dr Cid confrontation (lacked a proper build-up) and the political backstory. But really, many other story elements just did not gel well together and/or touched upon only slightly.

The ending sequences on the Bahamut was rushed and simply slotted in, no doubt at all.

Like another poster mentioned, Matsuno bowing out mid-way in development had an impact to the cohesiveness of its story. A damned shame, because FF12 had a lot going for it with its premise, characters and script.

Haven't played XIII (I just not interested in that one for some reason), but XII was good with a great battle system, even if the story wasn't really that great.

FF 12 was OK but nothing special and FF 13 was a disaster and a bore fest. It's a shame Square can't make anything good anymore....

Just go buy Skyrim when it comes out or Mass effect, those are two RPG's that are ACTUALLY good.

ShadowMoses900

SE has been doing well on handhelds and the upcoming Final Fantasy Type-0 is looking great (the demo was pretty good).

FF12 actually tried to add some innovation in the ageing franchise and ditched the outdated battle system.

FF13 actually took away things from the franchise....

Easily FF12

Those who said FF XIII is the better game between the two have inferior gaming taste and is influenced by COD.

Open>Linearity.

If I want linearity, I'll go watch some movies.

Those who said FF XIII is the better game between the two have inferior gaming taste and is influenced by COD.

Open>Linearity.

If I want linearity, I'll go watch some movies.

Ravenchrome

:roll: really. Yea cause some disagrees with you they lack taste. Get over yourself. Also I picked 13 and I was a snes kid so I wasint influenced by cod.

I liked the openworld-character of XII more than the corridors of XIII.

However, I prefer the battle system, characters, story and world of XIII more.

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

XII was the better Final Fantasy. Expansive world to explore, memorable locales, great soundtrack, amazing voice talent, superb script, flexible combat engine. It was (IMO) an offline MMO Final Fantasy and it rocked.

XIII was not a bad game (contrary to SW propaganda). It was no where near as expansive or memorable as XII, but it had plenty going for it. The combat engine was fast and enjoyable, locales a sheer feast for the eyes, some overall quality voice acting. I'd take XII 8/10 times over XIII, but I'd definitely play both several times through.

skanjos

whaaaaaat?

hello i am penelo, i want to be a sky pirate, hello i am van i want to be a sky pirate too, hi did i mention my name is penelo and i want to be a sky pirate? hi my name is vaan i want to be a sky pirate..........

seriusly it was even worst than the 2 kids in lost odyssey mac and cooke....

NOOO it was not sooo bad, was it ? Nooooooooooooooo!!!

I like XIII (platinumed it), it had a great battle system, and looked good. However, the characters, story, linearity spoiled it a bit.

XII was clearly a better game, there was so much to do in it. Two points of criticism at Xii though, zodiac spear (NOT opening 4 random chests in the game, with no indication you shouldn't... nuff said) and some of the long, tedious fights (Yiazmat anyone?). But these didn't spoil the game as a whole.

SteamedBennet

lol yeah Yiazmat. Those were long hours of trying to kill that dragon. It was quite an accomplishment killing it though lol.

FF12 is kinds WoW. So it should win! Hunting them monsters/summons is full of win. So FF12 babe.

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

I like XIII (platinumed it), it had a great battle system, and looked good. However, the characters, story, linearity spoiled it a bit.

XII was clearly a better game, there was so much to do in it. Two points of criticism at Xii though, zodiac spear (NOT opening 4 random chests in the game, with no indication you shouldn't... nuff said) and some of the long, tedious fights (Yiazmat anyone?). But these didn't spoil the game as a whole.

lol yeah Yiazmat. Those were long hours of trying to kill that dragon. It was quite an accomplishment killing it though lol.

[QUOTE="Laharl5"]

[QUOTE="SteamedBennet"]

I like XIII (platinumed it), it had a great battle system, and looked good. However, the characters, story, linearity spoiled it a bit.

XII was clearly a better game, there was so much to do in it. Two points of criticism at Xii though, zodiac spear (NOT opening 4 random chests in the game, with no indication you shouldn't... nuff said) and some of the long, tedious fights (Yiazmat anyone?). But these didn't spoil the game as a whole.

gaming25

lol yeah Yiazmat. Those were long hours of trying to kill that dragon. It was quite an accomplishment killing it though lol.

Yeah that boss is optional, but I went for 100% completion. And proud of achieving it lol. ;)Yeah somewhere around 15 hours. Long boss kill. Hard battle but it sure was alot of fun. :)

I love Final fantasy 12 mainly because the perfected battlesystem, my favorite in the series with FF9 close behind. Vivi is the best character in FF