Finished MGS4.....

[QUOTE="fatzebra"]

All I can say is wow. The last act is like a constant finale. Everything that is cinematic in this game is done so perfectly, it's hard to describe. I won't go in to detail because I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but if you own a ps3 and haven't played this game yet, you really need to. You don't really need the other games for this one, I only played MGS3 and understood everything just fine.

This shouldn't be a spolier but regardless of all the emotional cinematics and the end, my high point of the game was at the end when you fight liquid on top of the haven, and the MGS3 theme song comes on. It was just awesome. I've never experienced that kind of feeling before. Honestly, I'm a hermit, but this game kill and destroys Half-Life like a little bug. That's all I have to say on that, if it was up to me this game would have an 11/10 because it's more than a game. It's a game, movie, and a book. As far as GOTY goes, I think this should win.

You've got to understand though, I'm a PC guy. I've got a beefy rig, and I can't wait for L4D. But this game really shined through for me, nothing else comes close for me.

Javy03

You know its a good game when you don't know whether to root for the hero or the villian. The characters were so developed that you became attached to all of them.

the plot was paper thin.. and the character development was on the level of MGS3. If you call a 10 minute Codec about the Beauty and The beast unit character development then thats sad.

Best ending in a videogame EVER. I cant think if a game that has a better ending in terms of how you actualy play it, how its presented, and how the story wraps up.Sneaky_Gopher

which ending? The cut-scenes should have stopped after the initial rescue. the rest was unnecessary. Sunny also was unncessary, i thought the patriots kidnapped her.. how did otacon get her back?
The S3 program idea was much better than this lame attempt of a plot revelation.

MGs1>MGs3>MGS2>MGS4. 

great game, but the balance between gameplay and cut-scene wasn't quite right

i felt like there was too little gameplay overall

MGS1-3 had the right balance, but this didn't for me

akif22

Yea I think it went 3, 1 , 4, and then 2...

Even though those cutscenes were long, they were just so freakin well done one couldn't help but be entertained by them.

[QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"][QUOTE="heretrix"]No. Absolutely not.heretrix

Are you sure? It took me about 22 hours to complete MGS4 I'd say about half were cutscenes, that leaves a solid 10/11 hours of gameplay, isn't gears sp like 8 hours long? Wasn't gears 1 like 6 hours long?

That's speedrun regime ;) Most games can be finished in under 2 hours http://speeddemosarchive.com/gamelist/FullList.html

For the average playthrough though, MGS4 excluding cutscenes (which should not be excluded, but hell, just for the fun of it) is a strong 10 - 12 hours game, which is longer than most recent action games. But you know that you fox you :P

@ null_is_zero - yeah, that particular IGN review will probably remain in history. They did basically give MGS4 11/10 even though the actual score was "only" 10/10 :)

[QUOTE="fatzebra"]

All I can say is wow. The last act is like a constant finale. Everything that is cinematic in this game is done so perfectly, it's hard to describe. I won't go in to detail because I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but if you own a ps3 and haven't played this game yet, you really need to. You don't really need the other games for this one, I only played MGS3 and understood everything just fine.

This shouldn't be a spolier but regardless of all the emotional cinematics and the end, my high point of the game was at the end when you fight liquid on top of the haven, and the MGS3 theme song comes on. It was just awesome. I've never experienced that kind of feeling before. Honestly, I'm a hermit, but this game kill and destroys Half-Life like a little bug. That's all I have to say on that, if it was up to me this game would have an 11/10 because it's more than a game. It's a game, movie, and a book. As far as GOTY goes, I think this should win.

You've got to understand though, I'm a PC guy. I've got a beefy rig, and I can't wait for L4D. But this game really shined through for me, nothing else comes close for me.

II_Seraphim_II

Snake: LIQQQQQQQQUUUUUUIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Liquid: SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that was the part i luved the most about the final battle! :D

[QUOTE="akif22"]

great game, but the balance between gameplay and cut-scene wasn't quite right

i felt like there was too little gameplay overall

MGS1-3 had the right balance, but this didn't for me

W1NGMAN-

Yea I think it went 3, 1 , 4, and then 2...

Even though those cutscenes were long, they were just so freakin well done one couldn't help but be entertained by them.

I think The Boss is what made MGS3 what it is. She is by far the most powerful character in the entire series and, In my opinion, in any video game franchise :D

[QUOTE="heretrix"][QUOTE="Eddie-Vedder"]

Are you sure? It took me about 22 hours to complete MGS4 I'd say about half were cutscenes, that leaves a solid 10/11 hours of gameplay, isn't gears sp like 8 hours long? Wasn't gears 1 like 6 hours long?

el_rika

That's speedrun regime ;) Most games can be finished in under 2 hours http://speeddemosarchive.com/gamelist/FullList.html

For the average playthrough though, MGS4 excluding cutscenes (which should not be excluded, but hell, just for the fun of it) is a strong 10 - 12 hours game, which is longer than most recent action games. But you know that you fox you :P

@ null_is_zero - yeah, that particular IGN review will probably remain in history. They did basically give MGS4 11/10 even though the actual score was "only" 10/10 :)

it IS NOT a 10 hour game without cutscenes, not unless you're playing with the controller upside down and moving as slow as possible, lol. 

[QUOTE="II_Seraphim_II"][QUOTE="fatzebra"]

All I can say is wow. The last act is like a constant finale. Everything that is cinematic in this game is done so perfectly, it's hard to describe. I won't go in to detail because I don't want to spoil it for anyone, but if you own a ps3 and haven't played this game yet, you really need to. You don't really need the other games for this one, I only played MGS3 and understood everything just fine.

This shouldn't be a spolier but regardless of all the emotional cinematics and the end, my high point of the game was at the end when you fight liquid on top of the haven, and the MGS3 theme song comes on. It was just awesome. I've never experienced that kind of feeling before. Honestly, I'm a hermit, but this game kill and destroys Half-Life like a little bug. That's all I have to say on that, if it was up to me this game would have an 11/10 because it's more than a game. It's a game, movie, and a book. As far as GOTY goes, I think this should win.

You've got to understand though, I'm a PC guy. I've got a beefy rig, and I can't wait for L4D. But this game really shined through for me, nothing else comes close for me.

blazinpuertoroc

Snake: LIQQQQQQQQUUUUUUIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Liquid: SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKKEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that was the part i luved the most about the final battle! :D

tell me about it! The moment I heard that line, tears went down my cheeks...it was so legendary!!!!!!

Let me know if you decide to play it again in its entirety and watch all the cutscenes without skipping them and let me know if you still got the same feeling you had the first time.

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

Cool. Now maybe you can restart time and join the rest of us in the present. Although given how chiily it's been lately I could use a bit of June right now.

Seriously though. MGS 4 was great, I'm glad you liked it. I remember when I finished it. For some reason I was so exausted I couldn't play any other games for about a week..It was weird.

I still think on a techincal level, no game out there touches it. It was superbly designed. I was really impressed.

Lionheart08

You must've been mentally burnt out. I felt that way after completing SOTC. :P

I was the same way, after playing through MGS4 I didn't game for about 2 weeks, I had to let everything sink in before moving on to something else lol. Hideo Kojima has made 2 of my favorite games of all time. Zone of Enders: 2nd Runner and now Metal Gear Solid 4

MGS4 eh.....

I can give you 100 reasons why it is one of the most epic games i've ever played

and on the other hand I can give you 100 reasons why it was a real let down

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"][QUOTE="heretrix"]

Cool. Now maybe you can restart time and join the rest of us in the present. Although given how chiily it's been lately I could use a bit of June right now.

Seriously though. MGS 4 was great, I'm glad you liked it. I remember when I finished it. For some reason I was so exausted I couldn't play any other games for about a week..It was weird.

I still think on a techincal level, no game out there touches it. It was superbly designed. I was really impressed.

I_Helios_I

You must've been mentally burnt out. I felt that way after completing SOTC. :P

I was the same way, after playing through MGS4 I didn't game for about 2 weeks, I had to let everything sink in before moving on to something else lol. Hideo Kojima has made 2 of my favorite games of all time. Zone of Enders: 2nd Runner and now Metal Gear Solid 4

wow - it's really odd how much some people eat MGS up. obviously you can have you opinions but i find it really odd than it would make you not want to game for 2 weeks. i find it even harder to believe that the shallow story in MGS4 takes 2 weeks to absorb. but that's just my opinion i guess - personally it was a massive letdown for me. to each their own i guess. 

[QUOTE="I_Helios_I"][QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

 

You must've been mentally burnt out. I felt that way after completing SOTC. :P

3picuri3

I was the same way, after playing through MGS4 I didn't game for about 2 weeks, I had to let everything sink in before moving on to something else lol. Hideo Kojima has made 2 of my favorite games of all time. Zone of Enders: 2nd Runner and now Metal Gear Solid 4

wow - it's really odd how much some people eat MGS up. obviously you can have you opinions but i find it really odd than it would make you not want to game for 2 weeks. i find it even harder to believe that the shallow story in MGS4 takes 2 weeks to absorb. but that's just my opinion i guess - personally it was a massive letdown for me. to each their own i guess. 

There were so many twists that I felt I had to really pay attention to what was going on or I would have been lost, especially since the earlier games control and camera issues kept me away from the series. So I was basically taking in years of MGS lore in that 25 hour period of time.  

Personally, there was nothing in MGS 4 that changed my mind from my previous assessment of the story, which is that it's very comic bookish. But the presentation blew my mind.  

That's the thing, I wasn't exausted by the "great" story, I tend to laugh when I hear people saying it made them cry and whatnot...It was just sensory overload. there was an incredible amount of things going on, and like I said, I had also read the MGS database..So I was so fully absorbed into the lore that I had to settle down for a few days just to snap my head out of it..

There were so many twists that I felt I had to really pay attention to what was going on or I would have been lost, especially since the earlier games control and camera issues kept me away from the series. So I was basically taking in years of MGS lore in that 25 hour period of time.  

Personally, there was nothing in MGS 4 that changed my mind from my previous assessment of the story, which is that it's very comic bookish. But the presentation blew my mind.  

heretrix

Sorry if im mistaken but are you saying that you learned about the MGS backstory through the MGS database? If so thats why you dont appreciate the story. The Database gives you the general gist of the story, much like a book summary will tell you whats going on in the book, but the database can never truly show you what the story is about.  Think about this, whats more vivid, Reading a story about torture or watching sumone being tortured? Same applies here. You can read the database to find out what Snake did, what The Boss did, What Big Boss did, but you will never truly understand it, unless you see it with your own eyes. 

Each moment, each converstation between characters, the various codec convos...they all lead into creating the characters you see in the story. You need to actually see snake and his battle in shadow moses to understand. You need to see how liquid talks to snake to understand their relationship. You need to see the expressions, the intonation in their voices, the emotion...you cant just read about it later and hope to fully grasp what a long time fan who's played it grasps.

As you know, the main draw of MGS series is the story. The problem is that you are too concerned about the plot. Dont get me wrong, the plot in MGS is very important, but even more important are the characters. The story is all about the characters. You cant read this like a history book where u see event after event. its more like American History X, where we are disecting a man and his interactions with other people and how it changes him. You truly need to play MGS3 to truly understand who and what The Boss is all about. You cant understand how powerful a character she is unless you go through the entire MGS3 game and see the way she speaks and treats snake. See the expression on her face, he sad demeanor. If you havent seen the characters like this, then the main thing you focus about is the actualy plot, the series of events, and you are only getting 30% of the story, thus its not that important to you. Like they say in english, "you cant have a good story without character development" well, by reading the DB only, you are effectively removing all the character development of the series and you are left with nothing more than a shell.

I know that was long :P

[QUOTE="heretrix"]

That's the thing, I wasn't exausted by the "great" story, I tend to laugh when I hear people saying it made them cry and whatnot...It was just sensory overload. there was an incredible amount of things going on, and like I said, I had also read the MGS database..So I was so fully absorbed into the lore that I had to settle down for a few days just to snap my head out of it..

There were so many twists that I felt I had to really pay attention to what was going on or I would have been lost, especially since the earlier games control and camera issues kept me away from the series. So I was basically taking in years of MGS lore in that 25 hour period of time.  

Personally, there was nothing in MGS 4 that changed my mind from my previous assessment of the story, which is that it's very comic bookish. But the presentation blew my mind.  

II_Seraphim_II

Sorry if im mistaken but are you saying that you learned about the MGS backstory through the MGS database? If so thats why you dont appreciate the story. The Database gives you the general gist of the story, much like a book summary will tell you whats going on in the book, but the database can never truly show you what the story is about.  Think about this, whats more vivid, Reading a story about torture or watching sumone being tortured? Same applies here. You can read the database to find out what Snake did, what The Boss did, What Big Boss did, but you will never truly understand it, unless you see it with your own eyes. 

Each moment, each converstation between characters, the various codec convos...they all lead into creating the characters you see in the story. You need to actually see snake and his battle in shadow moses to understand. You need to see how liquid talks to snake to understand their relationship. You need to see the expressions, the intonation in their voices, the emotion...you cant just read about it later and hope to fully grasp what a long time fan who's played it grasps.

As you know, the main draw of MGS series is the story. The problem is that you are too concerned about the plot. Dont get me wrong, the plot in MGS is very important, but even more important are the characters. The story is all about the characters. You cant read this like a history book where u see event after event. its more like American History X, where we are disecting a man and his interactions with other people and how it changes him. You truly need to play MGS3 to truly understand who and what The Boss is all about. You cant understand how powerful a character she is unless you go through the entire MGS3 game and see the way she speaks and treats snake. See the expression on her face, he sad demeanor. If you havent seen the characters like this, then the main thing you focus about is the actualy plot, the series of events, and you are only getting 30% of the story, thus its not that important to you. Like they say in english, "you cant have a good story without character development" well, by reading the DB only, you are effectively removing all the character development of the series and you are left with nothing more than a shell.

I know that was long :P

My choice of words was a bit misleading. I apologize.

Just imagine if you played the first and second game. You would appreciate the fourth one that much more.

Also, imagine playing the first one in 1998, and then feeling the end excitement of the fourth one after having played the franchise for ten long years. Epic.

You need to see the expressions, the intonation in their voices, the emotion...you cant just read about it later and hope to fully grasp what a long time fan who's played it grasps.

II_Seraphim_II

Anyone who's late to the MGS party will crack up at the voice acting and dialogue.

I've never been able to get my friends into the series. 

I didn't learn about the backstory through the database, It just refreshed my memory about some things. I'm sorry if I confused you. I finished MGS, and MGS 2, but by the time Snake Eater came out I was finished with the series. I played SE until the part where The Boss fights snake for the first time on the bridge, but I found the camera and controls too damn annoying and Kojima hadn't come to his senses yet about those issues.. (Thank you Ryan Payton) :P

My choice of words was a bit misleading. I apologize.

heretrix

Ah ok, well then I guess MGS just aint for everybody lol.

@ II_Seraphim_II - High five for a very good post man. All you said is very true. Respect !

@ heretrix - a real shame you haven't played the 3rd one fully man :( Grab Subsistence as it has a camera similar to MGS4 and play it, as it is not only an amazing game, but it is the most important of the last 3 in understanding MGS4 the way it's meant to, especially the most sensitive and emotional parts. Do it, you'll definitelly not regret it :)

@ II_Seraphim_II - High five for a very good post man. All you said is very true. Respect !

@ heretrix - a real shame you haven't played the 3rd one fully man :( Grab Subsistence as it has a camera similar to MGS4 and play it, as it is not only an amazing game, but it is the most important of the last 3 in understanding MGS4 the way it's meant to, especially the most sensitive and emotional parts. Do it, you'll definitelly not regret it :)

 

el_rika

TY :D ^^

[QUOTE="3picuri3"][QUOTE="I_Helios_I"]

 

I was the same way, after playing through MGS4 I didn't game for about 2 weeks, I had to let everything sink in before moving on to something else lol. Hideo Kojima has made 2 of my favorite games of all time. Zone of Enders: 2nd Runner and now Metal Gear Solid 4

heretrix

wow - it's really odd how much some people eat MGS up. obviously you can have you opinions but i find it really odd than it would make you not want to game for 2 weeks. i find it even harder to believe that the shallow story in MGS4 takes 2 weeks to absorb. but that's just my opinion i guess - personally it was a massive letdown for me. to each their own i guess. 

There were so many twists that I felt I had to really pay attention to what was going on or I would have been lost, especially since the earlier games control and camera issues kept me away from the series. So I was basically taking in years of MGS lore in that 25 hour period of time.  

Personally, there was nothing in MGS 4 that changed my mind from my previous assessment of the story, which is that it's very comic bookish. But the presentation blew my mind.  

the presentation was amazing - i'll give it that. but the game left much to be desired overall i think.

it's definitely a comic book-esque story, and it's only complicated due to the plot twists - which i'd like to add is one of the cheapest literary devices. people think it so awesome because it's so complex, but once you really get at the meat of things it's a pretty simple and comic-bookish story like you say.

i really hope kojima moves on to another IP, i think he's spent too much time with MGS personally. 

plot twists - which i'd like to add is one of the cheapest literary devices.

3picuri3

Uh, no. Plot twists are the fundamentals for virtually any piece of literature. What you may be referring to is the use of such plot twists, and in that regard, you could say that MGS abuses them, or at least does not use them as well as other works of fiction.

[QUOTE="el_rika"]

No need for agressive comments. It is a known fact that MGS4 is 50% cutscenes (or even more depending on the player's style and ability).

Silent-Hal

It's more like 20% cutscenes to be honest. The amount that are in the game are grossly exaggerated by fanboys. On the first playthrough you can easily get 15 hours of gameplay out of it. Combine that with give or take 5 hours of cutscenes and it's a pretty fine package.

Actually, there is almost 10 hours of Cut Scenes in MGS4. Great game regardless though.

[QUOTE="akif22"]

great game, but the balance between gameplay and cut-scene wasn't quite right

i felt like there was too little gameplay overall

MGS1-3 had the right balance, but this didn't for me

Aljosa23

*Gets out knife and fork*    Watch out akif22! IM GONNA EAT YOU!!

*Starts running towards akif22* 

*Screams* Aaaaaaaaggghhh! You will pay!!!!    (I hope you taste good)

[QUOTE="3picuri3"]

plot twists - which i'd like to add is one of the cheapest literary devices.

FrozenLiquid

Uh, no. Plot twists are the fundamentals for virtually any piece of literature. What you may be referring to is the use of such plot twists, and in that regard, you could say that MGS abuses them, or at least does not use them as well as other works of fiction.

right, which is why i referred to them as literary devices.

i don't care what you say, english masters student here, plot twists are regarded as one of the cheapest literary tricks. it's the easiest thing to do when you run in to a wall writing - just come up with something wacky based on what's happened so far that people won't expect. it's like the magicians rabbit-in-hat trick, it's old, it's tired, and the best magicians don't use the trick or it's variants anymore :).

some of the best literary works don't have any plot twists :)  and some of our worst entertainment (like Saw and most hollywood films and games) are full of them. and most examples of literature that succeed in using them use them once, not like 50 times like Kojima - imo MGS4 is a schizophrenic mess of storytelling so wrapped up in itself that i find it impossible to swallow.