Forget the sales, is the wii the best console this gen so far?

[QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

ReturnOfShinobi

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

Even talking sales its not the best (Software wise at least, its in last :o)

However, overall it still isn't. I own all 3 and the one that gets the most play is 360, then ps3 is close behind. Wii is very far behind because it seems like its made for when you have friends over, which is fine, except its hard for me to get 4 friends over, even once a month. The best game for the wii I played was No More Heroes, which was great, but there are other games on both 360 and ps3 i'd much rather play.

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

Kuhu

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

Again, you can be part of the majority, you know follow the crowd, or think for yourself, up to you...

[QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

ReturnOfShinobi

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

Again, you can be part of the majority, you know follow the crowd, or think for yourself, up to you...

Get me the sales figures and we'll talk. I'm not going to do your research for you.

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

Kuhu

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

Again, you can be part of the majority, you know follow the crowd, or think for yourself, up to you...

Get me the sales figures and we'll talk. I'm not going to do your research for you.

A trashy game made to bank in on the 'gangsta' BS or one of gamings true masterpieces?

Again, i dont know the exact numbers, but we all know which sold more...

[QUOTE="FrankHurt"][QUOTE="110million"][QUOTE="fishfake"]

yes it is !

reason = sales

most here would say its not but thats the minority

what you dont get for the wii is HD graphics but the same problem you have on the two HD consoles ;)

Kuhu

Wow, you didn't even read the topic title.

Isn't that like saying...

"Why was Hitler a bad man? You can't say holocaust."

or

"Why did we start the war of terror? You can't say 9/11."

Sounds about right.

Despite what all the fanboys think, there is no definite way to prove which console has the best games. It is all based on opinion. Sales are the only way that everyone can see a consoles success in the same way, without being confused by different views and opinions.

Sales - Proves the best console.

Opinions - Fanboys saying their console is the best.

for some people its hard too understand course they only see horsepower or think there opinion = everyones opinion but too see what the most people really want you have too look at the sales numbers.

No way in hell. Worst graphics, worst sound , worst online ,worst library.kaangonultas

The worst graphics, kind of obvious.

Worst sound, doesn't even have optical, and I dont *think* it can do true surround sound which is as much of a blunder as no HD.

Worst online, by far. I have played a few games of mario kart, but most the time I get dropped or am waiting for 5-10 minutes before I finally give up on finding a game.

Worst library is debateable, but most of the games won't fit with the hardcore gaming crowd. NMH is the only exception ive found really. Its the only non party/mini game feeling game I have.

Overall, I'd say the wii is for casuals and new gamers, like they say. Maybe eventually it will get some games that actually excite me, but thus far, nothing.

[QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

ReturnOfShinobi

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

Again, you can be part of the majority, you know follow the crowd, or think for yourself, up to you...

Get me the sales figures and we'll talk. I'm not going to do your research for you.

A trashy game made to bank in on the 'gangsta' BS or one of gamings true masterpieces?

Again, i dont know the exact numbers, but we all know which sold more...

So sales would show that 50 Cent was more successful than Fallout 2. You even mentioned the problem here, Fallout 2 is a "cult" classic.

Obviously then, the public thought at the time that 50 Cent was better.

I don't know why you keep arguing with me. I'm going to keep giving you the same answer lol. If the sales were better, then that means that the public thought that product was better.

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

Kuhu

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

for some people its hard too understand course they only see horsepower or think there opinion = everyones opinion but too see what the most people really want you have too look at the sales numbers.

fishfake

Roger Ebert disagrees, he says its good

See everyone can have an opinion and its just as right as each others!:roll:

So sales would show that 50 Cent was more successful than Fallout 2. You even mentioned the problem here, Fallout 2 is a "cult" classic.

Obviously then, the public thought at the time that 50 Cent was better.

I don't know why you keep arguing with me. I'm going to keep giving you the same answer lol. If the sales were better, then that means that the public thought that product was better.

Kuhu

You do realise, that not everyone can bank in on current fads and then have millions to pump into promotion?

So basically, another theory coming from your logic is that more promotion = better game? So if i were to promote Big Rigs so much that it sold millions, it would become good all of a sudden?

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

Kuhu

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

McDonalds hamburgers outsell Ruth Chris' steaks, and yet if I gave people a choice between a McDonalds hamburger, or a filet mignon, the majority would choose the steak. What's "best" isn't always what's most popular, or what sells the best. Many of the best things in life are not accessable or affordable to everyone, or there may be circumstances that prevent a person from owning what they most desire.

A soccer mom can't safetly transport five kids to practice in a 2-door Porsche. A parent of young children can't have a game system loaded up with Gears of War and Mass Effect lying around. A college student can't afford to buy their friends high-end microbrews at a party, so settles for Killians.

As most top business students will tell you - current sales trends taken only on their sales numbers are nearly meaningless. They don't even tell you what direction you should take your company in - for example, if Nintendo and Sony imitated the Wii, making wanna-Wii systems, do you think they would be successful? Chances are Nintendo Wii owners wouldn't jump on board, the Wii would continue to sell, and the clones would alienate their fanbases.

It's tough, being a business, but as a consumer, you should be aware: what's most popular *isn't* what's best.

-

When we add in that marketing creates sales, and that many quality products, top-quality products you may enjoy, can be niche, the pictures gets more muddled. There are independant films that, without a doubt, showcase acting abilities and director talent that rivals what mainstream Hollywood is doing. Find any top film student and ask them "can you show me something Hollywood won't?" Yes, yes they can - but art films don't make sales - people want to go to the movies and zone out sometimes - sure sometimes a genuinely great movie makes the box office - other times it's something braindead.

So think for yourself, really, please.

-

To demonstrate my point - I have in my fridge one of the best beers produced in the United States - an Imperial Stout by the name of Yeti - Beer Advocate A-rated beer. Budweisser sells hundreds of times the amount of beer the brewing company which made Yeti sells - yet this beer is, without a doubt, guaranteed in any tasting contest by top brewers - even budweisser's own staff - to be considered better. But it's also more expensive to make. Oh, and it's alcohol content is above what grocery stores will typically carry - meaning it has to be sold in liquor stores, limiting its audience. And it costs a lot more per bottle than grocery store beer.

The very best beer in the world is made in Belgium in a monastary. It's made in limited batches, and you cannot actually just go to the monastary and buy it. They'll only let you buy a small amount of it as well - as they only make enough of it to pay their costs.

It is the best.

And if you were to go with the top-selling beer, you would get something you probably honestly wouldn't like - whereas if you tried the best, you would honestly never be able to drink the "most popular" again - it would be a shallow reminder of what you were missing.

-

That is what the best is - and when we've experienced the best in gaming, the Wii just rings hollow.

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

Kuhu

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

Again, you can be part of the majority, you know follow the crowd, or think for yourself, up to you...

Get me the sales figures and we'll talk. I'm not going to do your research for you.

A trashy game made to bank in on the 'gangsta' BS or one of gamings true masterpieces?

Again, i dont know the exact numbers, but we all know which sold more...

So sales would show that 50 Cent was more successful than Fallout 2. You even mentioned the problem here, Fallout 2 is a "cult" classic.

Obviously then, the public thought at the time that 50 Cent was better.

I don't know why you keep arguing with me. I'm going to keep giving you the same answer lol. If the sales were better, then that means that the public thought that product was better.

The public can still agree that it sucks, they just got sucked in by the popularity of the name or image. I think the sales of the new 50 cent will show that too.

^^ Dont worry, its only Sheep who advocate this useless logic

Cows and Lemmings use it too, but theyll always understand that if they have a trash system with good sales, its only they who lose out. In other words, it an extra to all the great games, because if it isnt there, at least in the short term it wont affect them

[QUOTE="Kuhu"]

So sales would show that 50 Cent was more successful than Fallout 2. You even mentioned the problem here, Fallout 2 is a "cult" classic.

Obviously then, the public thought at the time that 50 Cent was better.

I don't know why you keep arguing with me. I'm going to keep giving you the same answer lol. If the sales were better, then that means that the public thought that product was better.

ReturnOfShinobi

You do realise, that not everyone can bank in on current fads and then have millions to pump into promotion?

So basically, another theory coming from your logic is that more promotion = better game? So if i were to promote Big Rigs so much that it sold millions, it would become good all of a sudden?

You can't say the publics perception of 50 Cent was wrong. What makes your opinion superior to the millions that bought it? Not to mention that promotion for a product does not always lead to gross sales. IF you were to promote Big Rigs so much that it sold millions, then it could be good in the public eye.

I also find it humorous that you think sales are my logic. Your acting as if I invented the sales theory or something, when really, sales have been around for a long time and have proven to be an excellent way to measure products for a long time. Thats why every business likes to have good sales; It shows them that their product is selling well and that they're making money.

Can you please make a good argument now instead of repeating this joke of an argument in each post? I really want to get some sleep.

PS3

[QUOTE="fishfake"]

for some people its hard too understand course they only see horsepower or think there opinion = everyones opinion but too see what the most people really want you have too look at the sales numbers.

ReturnOfShinobi

Roger Ebert disagrees, he says its good

See everyone can have an opinion and its just as right as each others!:roll:

ok lets change some numbers

10 kids like godfather

2 kids saying its lame

is it a good game or bad game ?? ;)

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="fishfake"]

for some people its hard too understand course they only see horsepower or think there opinion = everyones opinion but too see what the most people really want you have too look at the sales numbers.

fishfake

Roger Ebert disagrees, he says its good

See everyone can have an opinion and its just as right as each others!:roll:

ok lets change some numbers

10 kids like godfather

2 kids saying its lame

is it a good game or bad game ?? ;)

Its like saying Nintendo have mades lots of money off Wii Sports because its 'sold' over 20 million copies?:|

[QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

subrosian

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

McDonalds hamburgers outsell Ruth Chris' steaks, and yet if I gave people a choice between a McDonalds hamburger, or a filet mignon, the majority would choose the steak. What's "best" isn't always what's most popular, or what sells the best. Many of the best things in life are not accessable or affordable to everyone, or there may be circumstances that prevent a person from owning what they most desire.

A soccer mom can't safetly transport five kids to practice in a 2-door Porsche. A parent of young children can't have a game system loaded up with Gears of War and Mass Effect lying around. A college student can't afford to buy their friends high-end microbrews at a party, so settles for Killians.

As most top business students will tell you - current sales trends taken only on their sales numbers are nearly meaningless. They don't even tell you what direction you should take your company in - for example, if Nintendo and Sony imitated the Wii, making wanna-Wii systems, do you think they would be successful? Chances are Nintendo Wii owners wouldn't jump on board, the Wii would continue to sell, and the clones would alienate their fanbases.

It's tough, being a business, but as a consumer, you should be aware: what's most popular *isn't* what's best.

-

When we add in that marketing creates sales, and that many quality products, top-quality products you may enjoy, can be niche, the pictures gets more muddled. There are independant films that, without a doubt, showcase acting abilities and director talent that rivals what mainstream Hollywood is doing. Find any top film student and ask them "can you show me something Hollywood won't?" Yes, yes they can - but art films don't make sales - people want to go to the movies and zone out sometimes - sure sometimes a genuinely great movie makes the box office - other times it's something braindead.

So think for yourself, really, please.

-

To demonstrate my point - I have in my fridge one of the best beers produced in the United States - an Imperial Stout by the name of Yeti - Beer Advocate A-rated beer. Budweisser sells hundreds of times the amount of beer the brewing company which made Yeti sells - yet this beer is, without a doubt, guaranteed in any tasting contest by top brewers - even budweisser's own staff - to be considered better. But it's also more expensive to make. Oh, and it's alcohol content is above what grocery stores will typically carry - meaning it has to be sold in liquor stores, limiting its audience. And it costs a lot more per bottle than grocery store beer.

The very best beer in the world is made in Belgium in a monastary. It's made in limited batches, and you cannot actually just go to the monastary and buy it. They'll only let you buy a small amount of it as well - as they only make enough of it to pay their costs.

It is the best.

And if you were to go with the top-selling beer, you would get something you probably honestly wouldn't like - whereas if you tried the best, you would honestly never be able to drink the "most popular" again - it would be a shallow reminder of what you were missing.

-

That is what the best is - and when we've experienced the best in gaming, the Wii just rings hollow.

[QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

So sales would show that 50 Cent was more successful than Fallout 2. You even mentioned the problem here, Fallout 2 is a "cult" classic.

Obviously then, the public thought at the time that 50 Cent was better.

I don't know why you keep arguing with me. I'm going to keep giving you the same answer lol. If the sales were better, then that means that the public thought that product was better.

Kuhu

You do realise, that not everyone can bank in on current fads and then have millions to pump into promotion?

So basically, another theory coming from your logic is that more promotion = better game? So if i were to promote Big Rigs so much that it sold millions, it would become good all of a sudden?

You can't say the publics perception of 50 Cent was wrong. What makes your opinion superior to the millions that bought it? Not to mention that promotion for a product does not always lead to gross sales. IF you were to promote Big Rigs so much that it sold millions, then it could be good in the public eye.

I also find it humorous that you think sales are my logic. Your acting as if I invented the sales theory or something, when really, sales have been around for a long time and have proven to be an excellent way to measure products for a long time. Thats why every business likes to have good sales; It shows them that their product is selling well and that they're making money.

Can you please make a good argument now instead of repeating this joke of an argument in each post? I really want to get some sleep.

You say that its an excellent measure? Well la-dee-da, how about you back it up other than what some kids think is 'cool'? Its like religion, is Christianity the true religion because its got the most followers? Okay so you dont believe in religion or God, unfortunately for you, most people are believers, therefore most people are right?

And no i am making a good arguement, its just that unlike you, im not going to let whats 'cool' and 'in' decide whats good and bad. You see i think for myself;)

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

kaangonultas

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

McDonalds hamburgers outsell Ruth Chris' steaks, and yet if I gave people a choice between a McDonalds hamburger, or a filet mignon, the majority would choose the steak. What's "best" isn't always what's most popular, or what sells the best. Many of the best things in life are not accessable or affordable to everyone, or there may be circumstances that prevent a person from owning what they most desire.

A soccer mom can't safetly transport five kids to practice in a 2-door Porsche. A parent of young children can't have a game system loaded up with Gears of War and Mass Effect lying around. A college student can't afford to buy their friends high-end microbrews at a party, so settles for Killians.

As most top business students will tell you - current sales trends taken only on their sales numbers are nearly meaningless. They don't even tell you what direction you should take your company in - for example, if Nintendo and Sony imitated the Wii, making wanna-Wii systems, do you think they would be successful? Chances are Nintendo Wii owners wouldn't jump on board, the Wii would continue to sell, and the clones would alienate their fanbases.

It's tough, being a business, but as a consumer, you should be aware: what's most popular *isn't* what's best.

-

When we add in that marketing creates sales, and that many quality products, top-quality products you may enjoy, can be niche, the pictures gets more muddled. There are independant films that, without a doubt, showcase acting abilities and director talent that rivals what mainstream Hollywood is doing. Find any top film student and ask them "can you show me something Hollywood won't?" Yes, yes they can - but art films don't make sales - people want to go to the movies and zone out sometimes - sure sometimes a genuinely great movie makes the box office - other times it's something braindead.

So think for yourself, really, please.

-

To demonstrate my point - I have in my fridge one of the best beers produced in the United States - an Imperial Stout by the name of Yeti - Beer Advocate A-rated beer. Budweisser sells hundreds of times the amount of beer the brewing company which made Yeti sells - yet this beer is, without a doubt, guaranteed in any tasting contest by top brewers - even budweisser's own staff - to be considered better. But it's also more expensive to make. Oh, and it's alcohol content is above what grocery stores will typically carry - meaning it has to be sold in liquor stores, limiting its audience. And it costs a lot more per bottle than grocery store beer.

The very best beer in the world is made in Belgium in a monastary. It's made in limited batches, and you cannot actually just go to the monastary and buy it. They'll only let you buy a small amount of it as well - as they only make enough of it to pay their costs.

It is the best.

And if you were to go with the top-selling beer, you would get something you probably honestly wouldn't like - whereas if you tried the best, you would honestly never be able to drink the "most popular" again - it would be a shallow reminder of what you were missing.

-

That is what the best is - and when we've experienced the best in gaming, the Wii just rings hollow.

Woah where did this post come from? Excellent points Subrosian.

[QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

subrosian

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

McDonalds hamburgers outsell Ruth Chris' steaks, and yet if I gave people a choice between a McDonalds hamburger, or a filet mignon, the majority would choose the steak. What's "best" isn't always what's most popular, or what sells the best. Many of the best things in life are not accessable or affordable to everyone, or there may be circumstances that prevent a person from owning what they most desire.

A soccer mom can't safetly transport five kids to practice in a 2-door Porsche. A parent of young children can't have a game system loaded up with Gears of War and Mass Effect lying around. A college student can't afford to buy their friends high-end microbrews at a party, so settles for Killians.

As most top business students will tell you - current sales trends taken only on their sales numbers are nearly meaningless. They don't even tell you what direction you should take your company in - for example, if Nintendo and Sony imitated the Wii, making wanna-Wii systems, do you think they would be successful? Chances are Nintendo Wii owners wouldn't jump on board, the Wii would continue to sell, and the clones would alienate their fanbases.

It's tough, being a business, but as a consumer, you should be aware: what's most popular *isn't* what's best.

-

When we add in that marketing creates sales, and that many quality products, top-quality products you may enjoy, can be niche, the pictures gets more muddled. There are independant films that, without a doubt, showcase acting abilities and director talent that rivals what mainstream Hollywood is doing. Find any top film student and ask them "can you show me something Hollywood won't?" Yes, yes they can - but art films don't make sales - people want to go to the movies and zone out sometimes - sure sometimes a genuinely great movie makes the box office - other times it's something braindead.

So think for yourself, really, please.

-

To demonstrate my point - I have in my fridge one of the best beers produced in the United States - an Imperial Stout by the name of Yeti - Beer Advocate A-rated beer. Budweisser sells hundreds of times the amount of beer the brewing company which made Yeti sells - yet this beer is, without a doubt, guaranteed in any tasting contest by top brewers - even budweisser's own staff - to be considered better. But it's also more expensive to make. Oh, and it's alcohol content is above what grocery stores will typically carry - meaning it has to be sold in liquor stores, limiting its audience. And it costs a lot more per bottle than grocery store beer.

The very best beer in the world is made in Belgium in a monastary. It's made in limited batches, and you cannot actually just go to the monastary and buy it. They'll only let you buy a small amount of it as well - as they only make enough of it to pay their costs.

It is the best.

And if you were to go with the top-selling beer, you would get something you probably honestly wouldn't like - whereas if you tried the best, you would honestly never be able to drink the "most popular" again - it would be a shallow reminder of what you were missing.

-

That is what the best is - and when we've experienced the best in gaming, the Wii just rings hollow.

omg so much text ;)

what you saying is right but if you cant buy something or its hurts your pocket too much then its NOT good for you.

the best car in the world for 500.000 or a good one for 10.000 ? every one knows the car for 500.000 is better in terms of quality but the better choice is the car for 10.000

No.

The Wii does not appeal to me in any way. However, I'm sure the Wii may be the best console of this generation to Nintendo fans. I enjoy the PS3 and the 360 because of their multimedia capabilites, fantastic graphics, and powerful hardware which allows developers to share their "grand vision" of a game to us, the consumer (see: Bioshock, Metal Gear Solid IV, GTAIV, etc).

omg so much text ;)

what you saying is right but if you cant buy something or its hurts your pocket too much then its NOT good for you.

the best car in the world for 500.000 or a good one for 10.000 ? every one knows the car for 500.000 is better in terms of quality but the better choice is the car for 10.000

fishfake

/thread

[QUOTE="subrosian"][QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

kaangonultas

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

McDonalds hamburgers outsell Ruth Chris' steaks, and yet if I gave people a choice between a McDonalds hamburger, or a filet mignon, the majority would choose the steak. What's "best" isn't always what's most popular, or what sells the best. Many of the best things in life are not accessable or affordable to everyone, or there may be circumstances that prevent a person from owning what they most desire.

A soccer mom can't safetly transport five kids to practice in a 2-door Porsche. A parent of young children can't have a game system loaded up with Gears of War and Mass Effect lying around. A college student can't afford to buy their friends high-end microbrews at a party, so settles for Killians.

As most top business students will tell you - current sales trends taken only on their sales numbers are nearly meaningless. They don't even tell you what direction you should take your company in - for example, if Nintendo and Sony imitated the Wii, making wanna-Wii systems, do you think they would be successful? Chances are Nintendo Wii owners wouldn't jump on board, the Wii would continue to sell, and the clones would alienate their fanbases.

It's tough, being a business, but as a consumer, you should be aware: what's most popular *isn't* what's best.

-

When we add in that marketing creates sales, and that many quality products, top-quality products you may enjoy, can be niche, the pictures gets more muddled. There are independant films that, without a doubt, showcase acting abilities and director talent that rivals what mainstream Hollywood is doing. Find any top film student and ask them "can you show me something Hollywood won't?" Yes, yes they can - but art films don't make sales - people want to go to the movies and zone out sometimes - sure sometimes a genuinely great movie makes the box office - other times it's something braindead.

So think for yourself, really, please.

-

To demonstrate my point - I have in my fridge one of the best beers produced in the United States - an Imperial Stout by the name of Yeti - Beer Advocate A-rated beer. Budweisser sells hundreds of times the amount of beer the brewing company which made Yeti sells - yet this beer is, without a doubt, guaranteed in any tasting contest by top brewers - even budweisser's own staff - to be considered better. But it's also more expensive to make. Oh, and it's alcohol content is above what grocery stores will typically carry - meaning it has to be sold in liquor stores, limiting its audience. And it costs a lot more per bottle than grocery store beer.

The very best beer in the world is made in Belgium in a monastary. It's made in limited batches, and you cannot actually just go to the monastary and buy it. They'll only let you buy a small amount of it as well - as they only make enough of it to pay their costs.

It is the best.

And if you were to go with the top-selling beer, you would get something you probably honestly wouldn't like - whereas if you tried the best, you would honestly never be able to drink the "most popular" again - it would be a shallow reminder of what you were missing.

-

That is what the best is - and when we've experienced the best in gaming, the Wii just rings hollow.

heres the thing about this argument though..half a year after launch the wii was selling at a higher price than the 360 on ebay by the masses

also a porche is not better than a maybach and a boeng 747 is more expensive than alot of jets...

[QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

So sales would show that 50 Cent was more successful than Fallout 2. You even mentioned the problem here, Fallout 2 is a "cult" classic.

Obviously then, the public thought at the time that 50 Cent was better.

I don't know why you keep arguing with me. I'm going to keep giving you the same answer lol. If the sales were better, then that means that the public thought that product was better.

ReturnOfShinobi

You do realise, that not everyone can bank in on current fads and then have millions to pump into promotion?

So basically, another theory coming from your logic is that more promotion = better game? So if i were to promote Big Rigs so much that it sold millions, it would become good all of a sudden?

You can't say the publics perception of 50 Cent was wrong. What makes your opinion superior to the millions that bought it? Not to mention that promotion for a product does not always lead to gross sales. IF you were to promote Big Rigs so much that it sold millions, then it could be good in the public eye.

I also find it humorous that you think sales are my logic. Your acting as if I invented the sales theory or something, when really, sales have been around for a long time and have proven to be an excellent way to measure products for a long time. Thats why every business likes to have good sales; It shows them that their product is selling well and that they're making money.

Can you please make a good argument now instead of repeating this joke of an argument in each post? I really want to get some sleep.

You say that its an excellent measure? Well la-dee-da, how about you back it up other than what some kids think is 'cool'? Its like religion, is Christianity the true religion because its got the most followers? Okay so you dont believe in religion or God, unfortunately for you, most people are believers, therefore most people are right?

And no i am making a good arguement, its just that unlike you, im not going to let whats 'cool' and 'in' decide whats good and bad. You see i think for myself;)

I knew I should have stopped reading after that. Your still arguing in fanboy mode it seems...

Can you tell me why sales aren't a good way of measuring a products success? Last time I checked, good sales meant product is selling well.

[QUOTE="Kuhu"The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

nickkcin10

Well I don't like them now, but back then I was a pretty big transformers fanboy lol

No.

Why?

1. it sits and doesn't get played, I dont really feel like paying for retro titles that aren't updated when i could get them for free, or for cheaper out in used game stores.
2. No really good games, I played twilight princess mastered in in a day and a half had EVERY THING without a guide, played SMG mastered in in a few days, metroid prime 3 was good but i mastered it in a week or so, there are a few other games i need to pick up, but all in all the games total 5-6 games and i can master them in a short amount of time, now once earthbound comes to retro store then ill grab it, till then the system sits and acts as my usb hub for my 360 and ps3 controllers to recharge.

[QUOTE="fishfake"]

omg so much text ;)

what you saying is right but if you cant buy something or its hurts your pocket too much then its NOT good for you.

the best car in the world for 500.000 or a good one for 10.000 ? every one knows the car for 500.000 is better in terms of quality but the better choice is the car for 10.000

ReturnOfShinobi

/thread

the wii have something you cant get from the ps3 or 360 like the 10.000$ cars have something the 500.000$ not have (the low price)

heres the thing about this argument though..half a year after launch the wii was selling at a higher price than the 360 on ebay by the masses

also a porche is not better than a maybach and a boeng 747 is more expensive than alot of jets...

anasbouzid

Hence why I did not say "highest price means the best". That's not true either. The eBay argument is fallacious simply because the after market, in the face of limited supplies, is always inflated. Remember, it's not always due to cost that sales will falsely indicate things. Take a look at my movies example - people pay the same $10 to see Journey to the Center of the Earth 3D (actually, 3D movies are a few bucks more!) than they do to see Wall-E or Batman - yet people still see it - why? We need to look at that - and understand, sales are not indicating quality.

In fact, if we look at Rocky Horror Picture Show - a movie that was absolutely terrible - it was so badly done that it has been being shown at movie theaters around the world at midnight for decades, just so people can make fun of it. You wouldn't want to try to copy it though - as other bad movies are just failures, and not much more.

-

You're actually, whether you realize it or not, defaulting back to the sales argument. The Wii is selling at inflated prices on eBay due to demand - yet that demand does not indicate quality. People demand things that are low quality all the time because they do not know better, because of poor taste, because it's what they're used to, or because of mitigating factors. Parents aren't going to buy their kids a 360 and Gears of War - they're going to get them a Wii and Rayman. That doesn't mean Rayman Raving Rabbits is a better game than Gears of War - it means the content was less offensive.

Grandma is going to buy Mario Party 8 to play with grandpa, there's no way on earth she's going to play Metal Gear Solid 4 - the stealth gameplay is unforgiving, and following the tangled plot of a several hours long story when she has errands to run is too much to ask. Is Mario Party 8 the "best" game then? No - it's a game that fit what grandma's attention span, limited acceptance of technology, and free time could handle - not necessarily the best game of all time.

-

What we can't do here is allow the sales charts to make those assumptions. If we use sales to indicate quality, we wind up saying a lot of heavily advertised sports games are better than everything else. We wind up saying that high-budget, high-advertising games are the only good games. Is that really true? Are low-selling titles selling worse because they're lower quality? I don't think so - gamers don't generally know the quality of a game.

Because I guarantee you Snopp Dogg and Hannah Montana save Batman and the Brat's Dolls would outsell Okami :P - and if we let ourselves believe that makes it a better game, we've lost our minds.

Is mcdonalds the best burger you can buy? It's cheap, it sells more than any other burger joint, and kids beg their parents to buy it for them.

Is mcdonalds the best burger you can buy? It's cheap, it sells more than any other burger joint, and kids beg their parents to buy it for them.

jdang307

Even if we remove cost, most kids want the Happy meal and the toy - and get all freaked out when the steak is bloody... kind of like the above Rayman vs GeoW analogy :P

[QUOTE="CB4McGusto"][QUOTE="fishfake"]

yes it is !

reason = sales

most here would say its not but thats the minority

what you dont get for the wii is HD graphics but the same problem you have on the two HD consoles ;)

fishfake

How do sales from a company you are in no way associated with benefit you?

P.S. Thanks for not reading the title.

i read the title and try answer you question ;)

i do not benefit directly from it maybe later if more 3rd party's start making good game I like !

if 10 people like the wii and 5 others like the 360, then the wii is the better system even if you are 1 of those 5 !

Lol no, thats not how it works.

Is mcdonalds the best burger you can buy? It's cheap, it sells more than any other burger joint, and kids beg their parents to buy it for them.

jdang307

In N Out or White Castle burgers > McDonalds burgers any day of the year.

As far as the Wii goes it is hardly the best console if you exclude sales. 360 and PS3 have better library, better online, better functionality, etc.

Too many variations on what peole think makes a paticular item "The best". To me the Wii is the best as it offers me what i want(Games). To next person the 360 is the best console due to graphics or whatever else is offered on the 360! Because a paticular item does not suit your needs it does not mean its the worst or best it just means it does not suit you for whatever reason!

You Lemmings, Sheep and whatever else you silly little fanboys are called should realise not to slate something because it dont suit your paticular taste! I think all 3 have a place on the market and every console has its flaws.

Overall: All 3 are the best and all 3 are the worst.

Yes. Thanks to the Nintendo's exclusives. Still my favourite games.

Very close is the 360, thanks to great shooters andall the incoming RPGs (including FFXIII ! )

And close to the 360 is the PS3, thanks MGS4 and some very nice games coming.

Of course, "IMO".

Too many variations on what peole think makes a paticular item "The best". To me the Wii is the best as it offers me what i want(Games). To next person the 360 is the best console due to graphics or whatever else is offered on the 360! Because a paticular item does not suit your needs it does not mean its the worst or best it just means it does not suit you for whatever reason!

You Lemmings, Sheep and whatever else you silly little fanboys are called should realise not to slate something because it dont suit your paticular taste! I think all 3 have a place on the market and every console has its flaws.

Overall: All 3 are the best and all 3 are the worst.

Dibdibdobdobo

Second.

[QUOTE="Firelore29"][QUOTE="CB4McGusto"]

[QUOTE="Firelore29"]Yes.Metallicadam379

Why?

Have you tried Rock Band, Guitar Hero, Rachet and Clank, Madden among other sports titles, and such? If you have an HDTV you should be ashamed to have your PS3 in a basement, unless the HDTV is in your basement.

[QUOTE="Firelore29"]My PS3 is banished to the basement because every game is either bloody or completely unplayable by my wife and children.CB4McGusto

Because it's the only game console I can have hooked up in my living room and not be ashamed to play.Firelore29

:|

[QUOTE="Kuhu"][QUOTE="ReturnOfShinobi"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

The sales say it would be the best toy ever.

The opinions we have would lead us to believe that many toys could be the best. In my opinion transformers were the greatest toy, but I am sure that others will have a different opinion.

subrosian

See, now this is why i love gaming, its only as good as it gets. Give it up guys, sales mean NOTHING determining quality, you just proved the logic is completely useless

I don't see how I proved that my logic is useless. Just because you have something that is "good quality" doesn't mean that its the best or that its destined to be successful. Heck, the PS2 was technically less powerful than the GC and the XBOX, and the Dreamcast yet it did the best out of the 4. All that you are explaining in your post is that your opinion leads you to think that something is the best.

Sales will always prove what is the best and what is the most successful.

Opinions will continue to be worthless seeing as how they're are more opinions in the world then we know what to do with.

McDonalds hamburgers outsell Ruth Chris' steaks, and yet if I gave people a choice between a McDonalds hamburger, or a filet mignon, the majority would choose the steak. What's "best" isn't always what's most popular, or what sells the best. Many of the best things in life are not accessable or affordable to everyone, or there may be circumstances that prevent a person from owning what they most desire.

A soccer mom can't safetly transport five kids to practice in a 2-door Porsche. A parent of young children can't have a game system loaded up with Gears of War and Mass Effect lying around. A college student can't afford to buy their friends high-end microbrews at a party, so settles for Killians.

As most top business students will tell you - current sales trends taken only on their sales numbers are nearly meaningless. They don't even tell you what direction you should take your company in - for example, if Nintendo and Sony imitated the Wii, making wanna-Wii systems, do you think they would be successful? Chances are Nintendo Wii owners wouldn't jump on board, the Wii would continue to sell, and the clones would alienate their fanbases.

It's tough, being a business, but as a consumer, you should be aware: what's most popular *isn't* what's best.

-

When we add in that marketing creates sales, and that many quality products, top-quality products you may enjoy, can be niche, the pictures gets more muddled. There are independant films that, without a doubt, showcase acting abilities and director talent that rivals what mainstream Hollywood is doing. Find any top film student and ask them "can you show me something Hollywood won't?" Yes, yes they can - but art films don't make sales - people want to go to the movies and zone out sometimes - sure sometimes a genuinely great movie makes the box office - other times it's something braindead.

So think for yourself, really, please.

-

To demonstrate my point - I have in my fridge one of the best beers produced in the United States - an Imperial Stout by the name of Yeti - Beer Advocate A-rated beer. Budweisser sells hundreds of times the amount of beer the brewing company which made Yeti sells - yet this beer is, without a doubt, guaranteed in any tasting contest by top brewers - even budweisser's own staff - to be considered better. But it's also more expensive to make. Oh, and it's alcohol content is above what grocery stores will typically carry - meaning it has to be sold in liquor stores, limiting its audience. And it costs a lot more per bottle than grocery store beer.

The very best beer in the world is made in Belgium in a monastary. It's made in limited batches, and you cannot actually just go to the monastary and buy it. They'll only let you buy a small amount of it as well - as they only make enough of it to pay their costs.

It is the best.

And if you were to go with the top-selling beer, you would get something you probably honestly wouldn't like - whereas if you tried the best, you would honestly never be able to drink the "most popular" again - it would be a shallow reminder of what you were missing.

-

That is what the best is - and when we've experienced the best in gaming, the Wii just rings hollow.

not for me

i look at my game collections for each 3 consoles, and their features, and 360 is the best for me