Forza Motorsport 5 Coming 2013 Horizon and Motorsport Are 2 Different Games

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killzonexbox

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#1 killzonexbox
Member since 2010 • 3019 Posts

Microsoft has confirmed that Forza 5 will be released next year and shall remain a two-year franchise, with Horizon filling the gaps between the main series games.

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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#2 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

*facepalm*

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randomguy15

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#3 randomguy15
Member since 2008 • 1981 Posts

This is pretty good news. It would be better news if we found out it was coming out on the new xbox.

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killzonexbox

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#4 killzonexbox
Member since 2010 • 3019 Posts

By handing the development of Horizon to Playground–a developer composed of talents from a range of studios: TOCA, GRID, Codemasters–it seems that Microsoft aims to have a new Forza title released every year, without making the sacrifices that are commonly seen in yearly franchises handled by one developer. In regards to the Horizon "trailer", Sebull reassured fans that "this is not a game trailer" but instead a "simple video showing the FH universe and there is not much to see."

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peterw007

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#5 peterw007
Member since 2005 • 3653 Posts

Here's the text of the article:

Microsoft France is on the roll this weekend! First we had the leaked teaser "trailer" for Forza Horizon, then this morning Microsoft confirmed that the trailer is real, and we'll receive more information. Well, Microsoft has another Forza-related announcement for you today! Fans of Forza Motorsport will be happy to know that Forza Motorsport 5 will be coming in 2013 as stated by Sebull of Microsoft France. Sebull has also elaborated upon something that fans may have wondered. The recently unveiled Forza Horizon is and Forza Motorsport are "two different games" that are split between two development teams; Playground and Turn10 respectively. Motorsport will remain on an "every-two-years release schedule" as it has since the beginning of the franchise.

By handing the development of Horizon to Playground–a developer composed of talents from a range of studios: TOCA, GRID, Codemasters–it seems that Microsoft aims to have a new Forza title released every year, without making the sacrifices that are commonly seen in yearly franchises handled by one developer. In regards to the Horizon "trailer", Sebull reassured fans that "this is not a game trailer" but instead a "simple video showing the FH universe and there is not much to see."

Microsoft's handling of the Forza franchise has been quite smart thus far. Providing fans with a game every year, while still retaining the quality that Forza is known for will prove to be great for longtime fans of the series that might have been worried about Forza's yearly status. Horizon will be officially unveiled tomorrow during GDC 2012, until then, game one!

AnalogHype

Forza 5 is coming in 2013...and Forza Horizon looks like a new direction for the franchise.

Let's just hope that Microsoft doesn't casualize both new games.

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shinrabanshou

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#6 shinrabanshou
Member since 2009 • 8458 Posts

I wouldn't be surprised, but I followed that link spiral and didn't find anything resembling an official confirmation from Microsoft.

Also, everyone's aware that Horizon isn't Forza 5.

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foxhound_fox

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#7 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Other than just rebuilding Forza 4 in a prettier engine, I see no need for the existence of Forza 5. I will keep an eye on this "Horizon" however, as I have great interest in seeing if it will in fact be sim-physics in an open-world setting.
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killzonexbox

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#8 killzonexbox
Member since 2010 • 3019 Posts

This is pretty good news. It would be better news if we found out it was coming out on the new xbox.

randomguy15
Yeah Why not save it for a launch title for the next xbox. What is MS thinking.
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deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20

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#9 deactivated-5d6bb9cb2ee20
Member since 2006 • 82724 Posts

By handing the development of Horizon to Playground–a developer composed of talents from a range of studios: TOCA, GRID, Codemasters–it seems that Microsoft aims to have a new Forza title released every year, without making the sacrifices that are commonly seen in yearly franchises handled by one developer. In regards to the Horizon "trailer", Sebull reassured fans that "this is not a game trailer" but instead a "simple video showing the FH universe and there is not much to see."

killzonexbox
So now, we have Halo as an annual franchise and Forza as an annual franchise? You know Microsoft, you could easily avoid having to dilute your few good IPs by making them annual, if only you were MORE WILLING TO INVEST IN A FIRST PARTY.
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killzonexbox

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#10 killzonexbox
Member since 2010 • 3019 Posts

Here's the text of the article:

[QUOTE="AnalogHype"]

Microsoft France is on the roll this weekend! First we had the leaked teaser "trailer" for Forza Horizon, then this morning Microsoft confirmed that the trailer is real, and we'll receive more information. Well, Microsoft has another Forza-related announcement for you today! Fans of Forza Motorsport will be happy to know that Forza Motorsport 5 will be coming in 2013 as stated by Sebull of Microsoft France. Sebull has also elaborated upon something that fans may have wondered. The recently unveiled Forza Horizon is and Forza Motorsport are "two different games" that are split between two development teams; Playground and Turn10 respectively. Motorsport will remain on an "every-two-years release schedule" as it has since the beginning of the franchise.

By handing the development of Horizon to Playground–a developer composed of talents from a range of studios: TOCA, GRID, Codemasters–it seems that Microsoft aims to have a new Forza title released every year, without making the sacrifices that are commonly seen in yearly franchises handled by one developer. In regards to the Horizon "trailer", Sebull reassured fans that "this is not a game trailer" but instead a "simple video showing the FH universe and there is not much to see."

Microsoft's handling of the Forza franchise has been quite smart thus far. Providing fans with a game every year, while still retaining the quality that Forza is known for will prove to be great for longtime fans of the series that might have been worried about Forza's yearly status. Horizon will be officially unveiled tomorrow during GDC 2012, until then, game one!

peterw007

Forza 5 is coming in 2013...and Forza Horizon looks like a new direction for the franchise.

Let's just hope that Microsoft doesn't casualize both new games.

i hope it doesnt end like guitar heroe...
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Slashless

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#11 Slashless
Member since 2011 • 9534 Posts

God damn it.

Forza 5

forza Horizon

Fable whateverthef*ckthatsh*twesawwas

And the 4th announced game?

Probably another Halo spin-off

God damn it MS.

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randomguy15

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#12 randomguy15
Member since 2008 • 1981 Posts

[QUOTE="randomguy15"]

This is pretty good news. It would be better news if we found out it was coming out on the new xbox.

killzonexbox

Yeah Why not save it for a launch title for the next xbox. What is MS thinking.

Well honestly we don't know it won't be. We just know it will be realased next year.

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PinnacleGamingP

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#13 PinnacleGamingP
Member since 2012 • 5120 Posts
in other news, gta 5 will be handled by random indie developer, but thats ok with lemmings !!!
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LovePotionNo9

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#14 LovePotionNo9
Member since 2010 • 4751 Posts
Hard to keep up with all these damn sequels.
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ShadowDeathX

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#15 ShadowDeathX
Member since 2006 • 11699 Posts
Well this is good. As more hordes of people keep buying a new game from the same series each year, other developers won't be able to receive enough income to stay alive in console land. As such, these developers will move onto other platforms where gamers will be more welcoming. What platform would that be? :)
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PinnacleGamingP

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#16 PinnacleGamingP
Member since 2012 • 5120 Posts
Hard to keep up with all these damn sequels.LovePotionNo9
sounds like x=5 in this case
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randomguy15

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#17 randomguy15
Member since 2008 • 1981 Posts

[QUOTE="LovePotionNo9"]Hard to keep up with all these damn sequels.PinnacleGamingP
sounds like x=5 in this case

Like GT5? If sony exclusives were making up to 5+ sequels you'd be ok with it, but when it happens with Microsoft you're ignorant fanboyism drivel spews.

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dream431ca

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#18 dream431ca
Member since 2003 • 10165 Posts

[QUOTE="killzonexbox"]

By handing the development of Horizon to Playground–a developer composed of talents from a range of studios: TOCA, GRID, Codemasters–it seems that Microsoft aims to have a new Forza title released every year, without making the sacrifices that are commonly seen in yearly franchises handled by one developer. In regards to the Horizon "trailer", Sebull reassured fans that "this is not a game trailer" but instead a "simple video showing the FH universe and there is not much to see."

charizard1605

So now, we have Halo as an annual franchise and Forza as an annual franchise? You know Microsoft, you could easily avoid having to dilute your few good IPs by making them annual, if only you were MORE WILLING TO INVEST IN A FIRST PARTY.

I think you forget that MS does have other first party's, but for Kinect.

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Masenkoe

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#19 Masenkoe
Member since 2007 • 4897 Posts

I don't understand why there are so many Forza games on one platform. Seriously

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wolverine4262

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#20 wolverine4262
Member since 2004 • 20832 Posts
Id rather they make more PGR
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BPoole96

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#21 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

Hopefully MS doesn't turn this into a once a year milkage series

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Macka9000

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#22 Macka9000
Member since 2004 • 671 Posts

an open world game with sim-like physics could be awesome=/
Would be like midnight club LA

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-Patrick_92-

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#23 -Patrick_92-
Member since 2008 • 2168 Posts

[QUOTE="PinnacleGamingP"][QUOTE="LovePotionNo9"]Hard to keep up with all these damn sequels.randomguy15

sounds like x=5 in this case

Like GT5? If sony exclusives were making up to 5+ sequels you'd be ok with it, but when it happens with Microsoft you're ignorant fanboyism drivel spews.

The difference is there are about 2 Gran Turismo games per console, and they are spread out. Forza has had 3 games already in this generation alone.

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todd2r

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#24 todd2r
Member since 2009 • 2615 Posts
I said it once but I will say it again, console gaming needs next gen now. ESPECIALLY MICROSOFT! Please stop with the forzas and gears and halo games till next gen. Save them. These franchises can not benefit from your outdated tech known as the Xbox 360. There's no juice left to squeeze out of the 360.
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nhh18

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#25 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

2013

-forza 5

-gears of war 4

2014

-halo 5 (8)

-Fable X

2015

-forza 6

-Gears of war 5

2016

-Halo 6

-Fable X

Oh I forget Forza _____
Halo _____

Fable _____

Gears of War _____

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SW__Troll

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#26 SW__Troll
Member since 2011 • 1687 Posts

They should focus some effort on getting Forza to be more known.

It just doesn't sell as well as "The best reviewed driving series" should

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Nega3

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#27 Nega3
Member since 2010 • 1069 Posts

I hope a new PGR is in the works. :D

I'm a Forza fan. Will look in to these games.

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WarTornRuston

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#28 WarTornRuston
Member since 2011 • 2712 Posts

I am fine with a Halo and Forza every year. Good franchises. We get a new Call of Duty every year and at least 2 mario games. I do not see a big deal. People claim Microsoft has no exclusives and yet when they release sequals to the best driving game this gen and the best console FPS of all time...people complain. Dumb Dumb Dumb. Not to mention 2 Fable games (yes not looking good) and we just got another Alan Wake.

Microsoft is releasing good games right in front of your eyes. Morons.

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Vari3ty

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#29 Vari3ty
Member since 2009 • 11111 Posts

Microsoft really needs to invest in a few more first-party exclusives.

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deactivated-61cc564148ef4

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#30 deactivated-61cc564148ef4
Member since 2007 • 10909 Posts

Damn it. Why do they have to milk Forza? It's a bloody great series, but I want I liked it better when each game was like a brand spanking new game, from Forza 1-2-3.

Then with 4, while the handling model was much better, it wasn't a big enough change. And why kill of the community that's been built on the previous one? Just keep supporting it with DLC!

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AcidSoldner

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#31 AcidSoldner
Member since 2007 • 7051 Posts

Damn it. Why do they have to milk Forza? It's a bloody great series, but I want I liked it better when each game was like a brand spanking new game, from Forza 1-2-3.

Then with 4, while the handling model was much better, it wasn't a big enough change. And why kill of the community that's been built on the previous one? Just keep supporting it with DLC!

OB-47
Pretty much how I feel. I doubt there's really all that much they can do on current gen consoles, especially on the graphical front. I say keep on supporting Forza 4 with DLC until Forza on next gen.
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randomguy15

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#32 randomguy15
Member since 2008 • 1981 Posts

[QUOTE="randomguy15"]

[QUOTE="PinnacleGamingP"] sounds like x=5 in this case-Patrick_92-

Like GT5? If sony exclusives were making up to 5+ sequels you'd be ok with it, but when it happens with Microsoft you're ignorant fanboyism drivel spews.

The difference is there are about 2 Gran Turismo games per console, and they are spread out. Forza has had 3 games already in this generation alone.

That means nothing compared to all the mario's, or spinoffs of other franchises. And also there has been 3 Uncharted's and Gears of War this gen as well. The thing is Forza, Gears, and Uncharted have all been quality games, all 3 of them in all 3 fanchises. So just because there have been 3 Forza's this gen alone means nothing.

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nhh18

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#33 nhh18
Member since 2009 • 6538 Posts

I am fine with a Halo and Forza every year. Good franchises. We get a new Call of Duty every year and at least 2 mario games. I do not see a big deal. People claim Microsoft has no exclusives and yet when they release sequals to the best driving game this gen and the best console FPS of all time...people complain. Dumb Dumb Dumb. Not to mention 2 Fable games (yes not looking good) and we just got another Alan Wake.

Microsoft is releasing good games right in front of your eyes. Morons.

WarTornRuston

halo reach is awesome. As was fable 2. Gears of war sucks, same as forza. But quality of call of duty games (besides black ops) is awful. Modern warfare 2 and 3 were simply bad games in both multiplayer and single player. Fable 3 was a mess and the 2 new fable games are messes. It is that the quality of these games are simply decreasing. It isn't that thehy are being milked. It is that I have no desire to play unpolished games. Developers need to take their time these days. A 2 year cycle is just too short for pre-production and we see really horrible writing, glitches, multiplayer level maps, among other things. It isn't like halo 4 is convincing me much since bungie isn't developing it either. Talking about it. I could go on and on. Mass Effect 2 and uncharted 3 disappointed me.

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-Patrick_92-

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#34 -Patrick_92-
Member since 2008 • 2168 Posts

[QUOTE="-Patrick_92-"]

[QUOTE="randomguy15"]Like GT5? If sony exclusives were making up to 5+ sequels you'd be ok with it, but when it happens with Microsoft you're ignorant fanboyism drivel spews.

randomguy15

The difference is there are about 2 Gran Turismo games per console, and they are spread out. Forza has had 3 games already in this generation alone.

That means nothing compared to all the mario's, or spinoffs of other franchises. And also there has been 3 Uncharted's and Gears of War this gen as well. The thing is Forza, Gears, and Uncharted have all been quality games, all 3 of them in all 3 fanchises. So just because there have been 3 Forza's this gen alone means nothing.

True, but you specifically mentioned GT5, another racing game. So I compared the two by how many releases they had. Even so the total amount of Forza games this gen will reach at least 5 titles. Its just too much. They should do another PGR to mix it up.
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loosingENDS

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#35 loosingENDS
Member since 2011 • 11793 Posts

360 is on a exlusives spree lately

Exclusives (23)

Ryse (exclusive)
Fable Journey (exclusive)
Crimson Dragon (exclusive)
Halo 4 (exclusive)
Dust Elysian Tale (exclusive)
Haunt (exclusive)
Star Wars (exclusive)
Steel Batallion (exclusive)
Battleblock Theater (exclusive)
Bloogforge (exclusive)
****3 Zombi MMO (exclusive)
Diabolical Pitch (exclusive)
Hybrid (exclusive)
Trials Evolution (exclusive)
Alan Wake American Nightmare (exclusive)
Sine Mora (exclusive)
Dead Light (exclusive)
Spelunky (exclusive)
Happy Wars (exclusive)
Mark of the Ninja (exclusive)
Forza Horizon (exclusive)
Kinect Rush (exclusive)
Fable: Heroes (exclusive)


PC/360 only games

Witcher 2 (PC/360 only)
FEZ (PC/360 only)
Minecraft (PC/360 only)
Owlboy (PC/360 only)
Capsized (PC/360 only)

The best part is that all those are day one buys, besides Star Wars that i want to see more first

I said it once but I will say it again, console gaming needs next gen now. ESPECIALLY MICROSOFT! Please stop with the forzas and gears and halo games till next gen. Save them. These franchises can not benefit from your outdated tech known as the Xbox 360. There's no juice left to squeeze out of the 360. todd2r

With so many amazing exlusives, i would definatly not want a xbox 720 so soon

360 will reach 80.000.000 sales in 2012 with all those titles and Kinect will go to 50-60 million too

xbox 720 is coming in 2014 or 2015 as it seems

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waltefmoney

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#36 waltefmoney
Member since 2010 • 18030 Posts

I don't mind, the developers and game seem different enough.

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deactivated-61cc564148ef4

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#37 deactivated-61cc564148ef4
Member since 2007 • 10909 Posts

[QUOTE="OB-47"]

Damn it. Why do they have to milk Forza? It's a bloody great series, but I want I liked it better when each game was like a brand spanking new game, from Forza 1-2-3.

Then with 4, while the handling model was much better, it wasn't a big enough change. And why kill of the community that's been built on the previous one? Just keep supporting it with DLC!

AcidSoldner

Pretty much how I feel. I doubt there's really all that much they can do on current gen consoles, especially on the graphical front. I say keep on supporting Forza 4 with DLC until Forza on next gen.

Now days it's really dissapointing. All games seem to be fire and forget, with some DLC for awhile than onto a whole new game. Forza has awesome community tools and online, why kill it when you can keep supporting it? Heck I'd be prepared to pay some money for extra content if it's reasonably priced. As much as I like Forza more than GT5, I feel I prefer GT's approach where they keep updating the game and it's a long time before the next.

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Khoo1992

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#38 Khoo1992
Member since 2005 • 2472 Posts

[QUOTE="OB-47"]

Damn it. Why do they have to milk Forza? It's a bloody great series, but I want I liked it better when each game was like a brand spanking new game, from Forza 1-2-3.

Then with 4, while the handling model was much better, it wasn't a big enough change. And why kill of the community that's been built on the previous one? Just keep supporting it with DLC!

AcidSoldner

Pretty much how I feel. I doubt there's really all that much they can do on current gen consoles, especially on the graphical front. I say keep on supporting Forza 4 with DLC until Forza on next gen.

This.

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NodakJo2010

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#39 NodakJo2010
Member since 2010 • 1061 Posts

Wow...already lost faith in Forza 4 to not support it anymore?

There will be 4 Forza sim games for the xbox360 for crying out loud.....Whatever they are doing to 5...I'm 100% sure they could just patch it in or release it as DLC for a fraction of the cost.

But I suppose why do that and charge people for the full 60 right?

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Malta_1980

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#40 Malta_1980
Member since 2008 • 11890 Posts

As much as i like the Forza series, a game every 2yrs is probably not long enough for devs to make significant improvements... I dont want Forza5 to be just a slightly visually improved game with a few new cars & tracks thrown in it like what happened with Forza4..

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razgriz_101

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#41 razgriz_101
Member since 2007 • 16875 Posts

more forza i dont mind the milk i enjoy the series and got tbh im intrested in the new direction, turn 10 handling games on a bi-yearly basis with the motorsports series and im happy with that i know the quality wont drop with them.

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inggrish

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#42 inggrish
Member since 2005 • 10503 Posts

Seriously?! Oh great so now people can be milked for Forza 4.5. 2 years is not a long enough dev cycle for racing games. There just will not be enough of an improvement.

Can someone link me to this video of Forza Horizon that is supposedly around?

I love Forza don't get me wrong, but Forza 5 just seems pointless right now, and making the franchise a yearly franchise by having a different developer just seems to be unneccassary.

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Ninja-Hippo

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#43 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
I thought Forza got treated harshly. There were two years between it and Forza 3, yet it was derided for being 'too soon' for a sequel despite the gaming press drooling over every iteration of COD to vom out of activision's mouth every year. Forza 4 is hands down the best racing sim ever made.
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razgriz_101

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#44 razgriz_101
Member since 2007 • 16875 Posts

Seriously?! Oh great so now people can be milked for Forza 4.5. 2 years is not a long enough dev cycle for racing games. There just will not be enough of an improvement.

Can someone link me to this video of Forza Horizon that is supposedly around?

I love Forza don't get me wrong, but Forza 5 just seems pointless right now, and making the franchise a yearly franchise by having a different developer just seems to be unneccassary.

_Matt_

By the time forza 5 launches 4 will be 2 years old man :P decent dev cycle,new tracks,new features,improve physics models etc.If anything i dont mind the 2 year system of Forza to the skittish and random one polyphony have with GT5.

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MercenaryMafia

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#45 MercenaryMafia
Member since 2011 • 2917 Posts

Halo

Forza

Fable

Gears

Rinse, wash, repeat!

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inggrish

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#46 inggrish
Member since 2005 • 10503 Posts

I thought Forza got treated harshly. There were two years between it and Forza 3, yet it was derided for being 'too soon' for a sequel despite the gaming press drooling over every iteration of COD to vom out of activision's mouth every year. Forza 4 is hands down the best racing sim ever made. Ninja-Hippo

Different genres. With shooters it is much easier to create a fresher game in the same period of time, since a whole new story/narrative can be wrote, and gameplayt can be changed risk free.

With Forza, it is a racing sim genre, already a fairly refined genre. Moreover Turn 10 make little improvement over each of their games each time, so 2 years obviously isn't enough time for them to produce a better improved sequel.

Also in this case it really does seem Microsoft is grasping at the remaining life in the 360, rather than letting Turn 10 maybe have 3 year dev cycle and produce a Forza 5 for the next Xbox

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inggrish

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#47 inggrish
Member since 2005 • 10503 Posts

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

Seriously?! Oh great so now people can be milked for Forza 4.5. 2 years is not a long enough dev cycle for racing games. There just will not be enough of an improvement.

Can someone link me to this video of Forza Horizon that is supposedly around?

I love Forza don't get me wrong, but Forza 5 just seems pointless right now, and making the franchise a yearly franchise by having a different developer just seems to be unneccassary.

razgriz_101

By the time forza 5 launches 4 will be 2 years old man :P decent dev cycle,new tracks,new features,improve physics models etc.If anything i dont mind the 2 year system of Forza to the skittish and random one polyphony have with GT5.

Hmm, I am far from being convinced. The improvement between Forza 2 and 3 in 2 years made 3 not worth buying for owners of 2. The improvement between 3 and 4 which while much more noticable than previous improvement, it was still a minor upgrade.

New tracks, better physics etc, they can all be implemented in patches or even paid dlc, those sorts of things just do not (to me) justify the need for a whole new game).

I prefer the 2 year dev cycle to PD's weird dev times with Gran Turismo, but I would much much prefer it if Turn 10 had 3 year dev cycles over 2.

More to the point, the 360 is coming towards the end of it's life, I highly doubt Turn 10 will put much effort into the improvement of the engine if they may end up just making a new engine for next gen anyway, this just seems like MS's last ditch effort to get more 360 sales.

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HalcyonScarlet

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#48 HalcyonScarlet
Member since 2011 • 13838 Posts

I think Forza 5 should be a launch title for the next console.

Also depending on what sort of racing game Horizon is, I wonder how it'll work.

Not least because there's far too much content in Forza games for me to get a new one every year. I can't keep unlocking it with every game.

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Ben-Buja

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#49 Ben-Buja
Member since 2011 • 2809 Posts

Other than just rebuilding Forza 4 in a prettier engine, I see no need for the existence of Forza 5. I will keep an eye on this "Horizon" however, as I have great interest in seeing if it will in fact be sim-physics in an open-world setting.foxhound_fox

Yeah, they should make Forza 5 for next gen.

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razgriz_101

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#50 razgriz_101
Member since 2007 • 16875 Posts

[QUOTE="razgriz_101"]

[QUOTE="_Matt_"]

Seriously?! Oh great so now people can be milked for Forza 4.5. 2 years is not a long enough dev cycle for racing games. There just will not be enough of an improvement.

Can someone link me to this video of Forza Horizon that is supposedly around?

I love Forza don't get me wrong, but Forza 5 just seems pointless right now, and making the franchise a yearly franchise by having a different developer just seems to be unneccassary.

_Matt_

By the time forza 5 launches 4 will be 2 years old man :P decent dev cycle,new tracks,new features,improve physics models etc.If anything i dont mind the 2 year system of Forza to the skittish and random one polyphony have with GT5.

Hmm, I am far from being convinced. The improvement between Forza 2 and 3 in 2 years made 3 not worth buying for owners of 2. The improvement between 3 and 4 which while much more noticable than previous improvement, it was still a minor upgrade.

New tracks, better physics etc, they can all be implemented in patches or even paid dlc, those sorts of things just do not (to me) justify the need for a whole new game).

I prefer the 2 year dev cycle to PD's weird dev times with Gran Turismo, but I would much much prefer it if Turn 10 had 3 year dev cycles over 2.

More to the point, the 360 is coming towards the end of it's life, I highly doubt Turn 10 will put much effort into the improvement of the engine if they may end up just making a new engine for next gen anyway, this just seems like MS's last ditch effort to get more 360 sales.

3 was a massive improvement graphically and playability over 2 :S